[Official] Breaking Bad Mafia 4/18 Blue. Town&DEA+rug win

[Rugbirn]

IB, you are right the town HAD a Doc, and currently have a bus driver. But without protection after N3, town will no longer have a bus driver. Now, tell me again why you do not want a replacement Doc for town? Sounds kinda scummy to me, as I am only a "Doc" for town members.

[Iron Butterfly]

IB, you are right the town HAD a Doc, and currently have a bus driver. But without protection after N3, town will no longer have a bus driver. Now, tell me again why you do not want a replacement Doc for town? Sounds kinda scummy to me, as I am only a "Doc" for town members.

Then why would you not be Town if you do exactly the same thing? A doc who heals town but is called a lawyer who woulda thought. why would you be a separate faction?

[betiko]

IB, you are right the town HAD a Doc, and currently have a bus driver. But without protection after N3, town will no longer have a bus driver. Now, tell me again why you do not want a replacement Doc for town? Sounds kinda scummy to me, as I am only a "Doc" for town members.

Then why would you not be Town if you do exactly the same thing? A doc who heals town but is called a lawyer who woulda thought. why would you be a separate faction?

There are at least 5 factions in this game, 2 of which are scummy. Fighting none scummy factions at this point of the game is a strategical mistake.

Big FOS!!! this sounds like a scum trying to get a protective role town/third party alliance out of the way before it s too late. Rugbirn s role, if he is telling the truth, can be a great asset.

[Rugbirn]

IB, as 3rd party I am NOT Town and I am NOT mafia. I canNOT day talk with mafia, but I can talk during the day here. My night action has two roles, depending on who I select. If I select mafia, that person would look innocent to a town investigation (like Hank did to IAC), however, if I select my night action to go to a townie, they are protected from a NK. If I was to select any other faction (3rd Party, etc.) then my night action would not exist for that person. I said so as much on pg 34 after N1. My theory was that XStor had pissed off enough people and was making some good analysis that he would be NKed N1. So, I chose him for my N1 action. He was visited by 3 that night. We know IAC's role, I am telling you my role, so that leaves TFO. He could' have tried to NK XStor, I don'y know. All I know is that XStor made it through N1. My only regret looking back is that I didn't protect him N2. If I had, we may have kept both XStor and CD. However, Rodion would never have forgiven me!!!!

[Rugbirn]

Think about it. I am a dead man walking. So why would I take the time and effort to explain all this to everyone if I wasn't pro town (or town aligned as I like to call it). Everything I have done to this point in the game has been pro town and will remain so - there is nothing in it for me to do otherwise. We have 3 of the 6 buried and will be in much better shape if I can team up with MoB. I protect him (as I feel he is town after claiming for no reason), he busses me to a mafis scum who he/we select. and if they try to kill me, they will off one of their own. If yiou lynch me, that is just one less non mafia in the game and that is NOT towns objective. At least make them kill me, so that town keeps an extra player for another night if you don't believe me.

[TheForgivenOne]

IB, you are right the town HAD a Doc, and currently have a bus driver. But without protection after N3, town will no longer have a bus driver. Now, tell me again why you do not want a replacement Doc for town? Sounds kinda scummy to me, as I am only a "Doc" for town members.

No no nono. I've told you before. Bus drivers can buss themselves. So Mob could easily buss himself with someone else. So there is no guarantee that he will die N3 if you get lynched. And to add speculation, mafia may have a roleblocker, which could block you.

[Rugbirn]

O.K TFO, point well taken - you are right, but I am not aware of a role-blocker to date. Doesn't mean that there isn't one, but to my knowledge, if there is one, - no one has claimed a role being blocked. Besides, if MoB busses himself, mafia can still get lucky (as they have already (with town Doc) and CD, and off him. They will surely come after me, so I still like my trap idea.

[betiko]

Rug, just so you stop repeating that: mafia players don t day talk, they night talk.
Some mason roles can day talk, but most of them can only do it at night too.
And yes, mob doesn t need you to survive although it could help.
Other thing... Hank was possibly the only investigative role, so the negative effect of your role is irrelevant now.

So no one wants to try another lead?

[gregwolf121]

i was going to comment that i found it interesting that rugbirn only said that he couldn't day talk with the mafia, but never said no night talk,
as to x-stor's pressuring me, to me it seemed it was because i wasn't posting as much and he wanted me to offer my opinion on everything, i didn't see the need to. that and i don't think he forgave me for replacing nag.

[Rugbirn]

My bad, I knew mafia could talk at night, and I assumed they could stratigize during the day as well. I have never been mafia, so excuse my ignorance. In any event I canNOT talk to mafia at all period (other than on this forum unknowingly, like everyone else).

[betiko]

My bad, I knew mafia could talk at night, and I assumed they could stratigize during the day as well. I have never been mafia, so excuse my ignorance. In any event I canNOT talk to mafia at all period (other than on this forum unknowingly, like everyone else).

If you aren t mafia, obviously... No need to even mention it. Well actually there are some mason roles where you can talk privately to someone of a different faction, but you aren t even told it s the case.

Regarding greg. You made me lol with the nag thing. Nevertheless I didn t like the way you reacted to pressure on day 2, you seemed a bit in panic to tell the truth, and i ve already seen you react this way while mafia and pressured because of your lack of activity. I don t know, your attitude during day 2 reminded me of your attitude in another game where you got lynched day 1 and you were mafia.

[Rugbirn]

I will re-iterate - I am 3rd Party. I can only talk on this forum and PM Strike (if necessary) like evryone else. I am not a mason(?) or anything other tham my inital and completed claim. I do NOT have any special roles or powers hat I have not elaborated on.

[rishaed]

@ Rodion -
1. Obviously, from my actions I am town aligned.
1.5 My winning condition is to be the last standing (quite doubtful now)
2. My question to Strike was about what I could/could not say about my role - claim wording wise. Nothing major, but I wanted clarification so as not to get mod killed.

I am bringing this back, sure its third party win-con, but no its not a survivor condition by any chance. I think he didn't think too hard about the wording here and botched it. Also as Rodian put it its a SK win con. I had thought i voted him earlier, but am also willing to get another claim today. Also agree with IB here, his role is elaborate, but something just doesn't seem to sit right about it to me.
I would go with LAL here, but thats my preference.
Also, if someone could reiterate why they think gregwolf is scummy? I seem to have missed the case....Redirecting me to the page on which it is on is also fine.

[betiko]

@ Rodion -
1. Obviously, from my actions I am town aligned.
1.5 My winning condition is to be the last standing (quite doubtful now)
2. My question to Strike was about what I could/could not say about my role - claim wording wise. Nothing major, but I wanted clarification so as not to get mod killed.

I am bringing this back, sure its third party win-con, but no its not a survivor condition by any chance. I think he didn't think too hard about the wording here and botched it. Also as Rodian put it its a SK win con. I had thought i voted him earlier, but am also willing to get another claim today. Also agree with IB here, his role is elaborate, but something just doesn't seem to sit right about it to me.
I would go with LAL here, but thats my preference.
Also, if someone could reiterate why they think gregwolf is scummy? I seem to have missed the case....Redirecting me to the page on which it is on is also fine.

My problem here with your LAL is that rug is a noob and seems pretty unsure of what he s doing. His story stands. He just should ve said the truth in the first place. I believe when he says that he didn t dare to say the truth as he assumed it would get him automatically lynched.
Now at a rate of 2/3 death per night, can we afford to go LAL with a very likely third party protective role willing to cooperate?
As I said before, Saul has to be in the game. It is such an important character that I doubt it could be a fakeclaim. And if he is in the game, third party or town fits, no way he is cartel or mafia, he is never remotely related to them.

I would go hunt elsewhere for now, if we can t find anything better by the deadline, rug could be the best option. But the day is still long. This day could just be a disaster if rug is who he said he is+ mob revealing he is the busdriver. Less than half of the players will be alive tomorrow.. And this day 3 will be a waste.

I will go compile a gregg case this afternoon with more time.

In the meantime, other than rug, where are your biggest suspicions right now people? Who is your next in line suspect and why?

[strike wolf]

Official Vote Count

Rishaed
Gregwolf121 (1)-Betiko
Theforgivenone (1)-Rugbirn
mob deadly
betiko
metsfanmax
rodion
virus90
iron butterfly
Rugbirn (2)-Iron Butterfly, Rodion
Jonty125

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

[betiko]

ok, here are all of greg's D2 posts:

okay i'm finally all caught up, yes it took longer than i thought it would, but to be honest day 1 was a bit confusing so i had to go back and reread several parts of it, i usually find that games have a certain flow that makes them easier to follow, day 1 though was very choppy and had lots of different tangents, mostly from x-stor, good job keeping the discussion going though, umm as for my reads i'm still formulating most of my opinions, meaning that i try not to form lasting impressions of players from one or two posts,
now from the players who are left alive
x-stor-x stood out the most too me, mostly cause i've never played with him before and his playstyle is completely different than what i'm used to seeing on this forum, and in reply to his numerous times asking about me, i was rereading and figuring out what i could from the game.
ummm most of the other players seem to be playing the same as always, the only deviations that i can remember, rodion was a bit quieter than i remember him being but it was said that he usually was on D1, virus not quite sure his posting seems different from how he posted in other games, i need to recheck this at sometime,
as for the NK's umm i've never watched this show so i'm not familiar with the flavor, but i think we have either two scum groups , or a scum group and a SK, i would suggest a vig but most players with a vig role don't kill on N1, not sure why neb was targeted, but as for pancake i think it was mostly because he is an experienced player and who ever killed him didn't want to deal with him later.
i think thats everything i wanted to say so...

First post he isn't really giving reads about anyone, he is just showing he read day 1 basically. He is giving the 2 mafia factions theory as his first thought when there was nothing to prove it.

sorry were you expecting me to be able to give you the names and roles of all those left alive? i'm not that good.

xstor continues to be agressive with him

no i didn't say whether i thought people were town or not, mostly because i still don't know, most of those i've played with before seem to be playing normally, meaning i think they are town but i'm not sure, the ones that were different i pointed out what seemed different, do i think those differences make them scum, not at this time, i will continue to observe and to look into their actions and respond accordingly, there are several players in this game who i've never played with, such as yourself, i don't have a good read on any of them, because i don't have enough prior knowledge.

the thing is that if everyone hassuch mild opinions and decide to be observants rather than actors, the game is going nowhere. Not willing to be act in the game is the easiest scum strategy. A bit like what I piked up with caff during the jokevote stage where he voted himself; best position to avoid backfire.

yes in order for the game to progress we must lynch someone, but we should try to find scum, not just lynch whomever, i'm not going to vote until i believe some one is scum. as to my opinion on the matter at hand well my first posts here were a general summary of my thoughts on the game as a whole, i decided to spend a bit more time looking back at the current cases before adding to them, i usually find it helpful to read the case then go do something else as i think on it, but if i remember right the case is that some believe that caffeine soft claimed third party, but in the quote below i take caffeine's statement to mean that he didn't claim third party, and caffeine said he will say more later, i want to wait and see what he has to say.

I don't think third parties are a bad thing, but it's probably harmless to ask for a claim to understand some mechanics.

Third parties aren't inherently evil, but without a role that helps town, they'll be lynched, due to their wavering loyalties. And I don't think IamCaffeine was softclaiming 3rd party, that's generally not a good thing to do if you want to live.

Although he can't spell my handle, he is correct.

There are still a few players we haven't heard from yet. I'd like them to voice up before going further.

he is starting to be interested in caf's case, wants to hear more about it and has nothing more to add.

thanks for those notes of concern, but yes i am still here, had a project take longer to finish than i thought it would.
anywho, i can understand rodion wanting clarification of CD's word use, it was a reasonable question, and then it got blown out of proportion, i don't think a vote is warranted yet but i'll keep this in mind
as for MOB's case on caff, well i didn't read caff's orginal post that way but with the above i see MOB's point, caff's post definitely looks like he was soft-claiming third party, then caff said he hadn't, this now seems to me to be a case of LAL so vote iamcaffeine

blatant bandwagon. he didn't really understand mob's case according to himself (which was mine and done 3 times, mob just rephrazed it on the same page as my exact same case on caff) yet he votes caff. So he didn't get the same vibe about caff, but since mob words it nicely (probably because he knows for sure that mob is town) he votes!!

@ greg
I must say greg; you admit to not reading the case thoroughly but you are happy to vote iamcaffeine. besides the case was already rolling when you replied last weekend (march 8 my local time, page 36) so why did you not join it at that time, at that point you said you did a thorough reread, then you said sun 9, page 37; that you wanted to wait for caffeine to respond. and i quote "i'm not going to vote until i believe some one is scum" so now you do believe he is scum?
so FOS gregwolf. (only problem i have with that, is that this is typicaly his meta, but it makes him so damn hard to read, and i think my point is valid)

when i first posted on page 36 i said that i had caught up, meaning i had read all of day 1 and what had been posted on day 2, i never said i did a thorough reread, i read though most everything once, excepting parts of day 1 that i had to reread, at that time i didn't read his post as a softclaim, as i said, and at the time he said he would provide more info, so i waited for that info, at this time i do believe that, which is why i voted

greg: it feels like he saw that he was getting into trouble for the lack of posting and opinions that were not just postponing stuff vaguely and saw the caff wagon forming so he jumped on it. he replied just after mob:

thanks for those notes of concern, but yes i am still here, had a project take longer to finish than i thought it would.
anywho, i can understand rodion wanting clarification of CD's word use, it was a reasonable question, and then it got blown out of proportion, i don't think a vote is warranted yet but i'll keep this in mind
as for MOB's case on caff, well i didn't read caff's orginal post that way but with the above i see MOB's point, caff's post definitely looks like he was soft-claiming third party, then caff said he hadn't, this now seems to me to be a case of LAL so vote iamcaffeine

so is he skimming through stuff to make it look as if he's up to date? he's acting as if mob is building something new when mob is basically agreeing on the same stuff about caff that I had already said 2/3 times earlier. So he got a bit nervous there in my opinion with the pressure. I can't really make conclusions out of this.

no im not skimming, but neither am i reading through the posts dissecting every word. and i'll say again when i first read caff's post i didn't catch the softclaim, then when i read through it again, in mob's post, i saw it, i had waited for caff's response he responded, and he seemed to completely change what he had said, though i feel my first post said all this,

well he was just not reading every post, because he "saw" for the first time the caff's case halfway through day 2.

i do read every post on the page, if i'm in a hurry i don't read as carefully, the posts i think you are refering too, were at the start of day 1, correct? if so i had just finished reading 15+ pages to catch up on the reading and by that time things started blending together, that and i wanted to hear caff's response, once it was given i just referred back to the closest post on the case.

greg is definitively getting nervous with all my questions. he talks about day 1, and is clearly refering to day 2.


I don't know, something is probably odd there and I wouldlike to investigate.

[gregwolf121]

i feel like i discussed most of this day 2, umm, yes my first post was basically a i'm finally done reading everything so i'm here, i'm not unwilling to act, i'm unwilling to jump to conclusions and to recklessly vote, that being said i feel that when i was sure of something i did act. yes i messed up with the caff case, i remembered there being one at the start of day two, but didn't look any further into it, as i said latter because i had just read 15+ pages of posts, when i first posted on day 2 it didn't seem as serious a case, yes betiko i know that in essence mob summarized your case, but when mob summed it up, caff had made a few more posts and the two didn't seem to add up, so i voted him. i don't think i said that i didn't understand mobs case, and then i'm nervous because i typed a 1 instead of a 2,

so the case against me is that i missed the caff case at first and the later joined it and that i seem nervous because of a typo, correct?

[virus90]

i never know it with greg his meta is just so... gregwolf...not sure if he is scum.
i still have my eye on rishead... basicly it is a feeling i have been having for a while and it just does not go away.
he lacks information of his own, or any decent read in the game. he said if its not rugbirn i have my eye on metsfanmax beginning day 3 but did not follow up on metsfanmax.
hasnt voted much, (voted nark, then cooldeals then last minute iamcaffeine)
all these things add up and make me feel he could be scum.
would be nice if someone else takes a good look into him since i have been saying it for a long while already and it hasnt been picked up by the masses, but i still got this feeling

[betiko]

i feel like i discussed most of this day 2, umm, yes my first post was basically a i'm finally done reading everything so i'm here, i'm not unwilling to act, i'm unwilling to jump to conclusions and to recklessly vote, that being said i feel that when i was sure of something i did act. yes i messed up with the caff case, i remembered there being one at the start of day two, but didn't look any further into it, as i said latter because i had just read 15+ pages of posts, when i first posted on day 2 it didn't seem as serious a case, yes betiko i know that in essence mob summarized your case, but when mob summed it up, caff had made a few more posts and the two didn't seem to add up, so i voted him. i don't think i said that i didn't understand mobs case, and then i'm nervous because i typed a 1 instead of a 2,

so the case against me is that i missed the caff case at first and the later joined it and that i seem nervous because of a typo, correct?

yes, it has all been discussed during day 2 and I don't really have anything new about you on day 3. I was too focused on caff during day 2 and I thought that I would bring this case on the table for day 3. I know a few other players had the same feeling and wanted to have a closer look at this on day 3, caff being a top priority.

@ virus: I am not certain you are talking about rishaed or mets as your main suspect in your post since you jump from one to the other.. can you clear out my mind?

[virus90]

rishead,
i meant this post of rishead which involved mets

Thats putting some good pieces together there. [color=red vote Rugbirn[/color] FOS Mets You were super overprotective of Super (know it was a bad case, but still), and was going to be my first lead of the day. However Rugbirn has got better evidence against him, so i'll put you off till later.
fp'd
also it lets us know that he doesn't have a vote fro the day.

[rishaed]

FOS Mets You were super overprotective of Super (know it was a bad case, but still), and was going to be my first lead of the day. However Rugbirn has got better evidence against him, so i'll put you off till later.

If I were really super's scum buddy, I wouldn't have been nearly so overt. It would have been a huge risk to go in on it that fully. After all, there wasn't really a serious case on super in the last day but I brought it up anyway, because I had an issue with x-stor's argument. If I were on his side, I would have just let it die.

@Virus: I was satisfied enough with this response, because it is something I would do if Super was under fire and I was his scum buddy.... why throw gasoline on a dying fire? Also speaking the other cases I have tried to push have been miserably ignored for the most part >.>. And I think the "Lacks information of his own" can be said about quite a few of us. Not all of us get information in the night you know. And when I do have a read I do attempt to go after it, (Mets x2.... Rugbirn >.>), until I get a response that satisfies me. Im not so persistent most of the time to beat a dead horse..... Except on exceptionally strong reads of mine (DY in Jonty's random is a good one).
@Betiko: ok its true, you know the show better than me. The problem is not that he's a noob, but that I think because he's a noob he let slip his real win Condition. Since when is Being the last one Standing = stay alive until the end of the game? I also never argued that he was straight up scum, I too believe that he's third party, the exception is that I don't believe hes a 100% townie doc w/ a innocent on mafia roles.
@ Rugbirn: What happens to other third party: Doc/Inno's?
From what I see the Gregwolf case is one on "lurking"?

[Rugbirn]

Rishead, I'm sorry but I do not understand your question to me. If you are asking, should I target someone with my night action who is someone other than town or mafia (3rd Party. etc.), to my knowledge nothing will happen to them as a result of my action.

[Rugbirn]

For what it's worth, my FOS is on Greg and TFO.

First, many of us were suspecious of Nag D1 for his lurking and non-productive posts, and since Greg has taken over the role, it seems like more of the same to me. He never seems to go out on the ledge to give his gut opinions on other players/roles, and I get the impression that his primary goal is to fly below the radar, posting just enough so that we know he is here. This is most obvious to me when after a night scene is posted and everyone is trying to decipher the who, what, when, and why, of what happened, Greg is very silent offering little to move the ball forward.

Now TFO is a different story. Although,to me, his posts are convincing and poignient and always move the ball forward with some type of insite, something in my gut tells me that he was the NKer that I foiled on N1 against XStor. Iknow, I accused IAC of that role at the time during the heat of the moment; but I was wrong. Remember there were 3 visitors to XStor N1. IAC was the mafia watcher who when pressured, told us the identity of the two others: TFO & Rug. I have explained in depth why I was there, and was the second of the three to acknowledge my presence. At this point no matter what his role was that night, if he was hiding something, he could easily agree with IAC's story (wheather it was true or not) and not look scummy. Which in my opinion he did by saying he aquired a night action for his vote and it was "ironically" watcher. Now I guess if anyone had pressed me as to why I was there, I could have said the same - and there would have been three watchers on one person N1. Highly unlikely.

What bothered me the most was he volunteered information as to why he chose XStor to watch. Seemed like a plausible answer, but no one ever asked him why he was there. It was almost like he had thought up a perfect excuse, and when nobody asked he was disappointed he couldn't tell us.
So, he just blerted it out anyway.

The most important reason is that after what XStor was doing D1 (pissing off alot of people with his style), I wouild have bet my house that someone would try to NK XStor N1 - which is why I chose him to protect as I was 90% sure that he was town.

[MoB Deadly]

Sorry I have been sick.... Will try to catch up tomororw

[strike wolf]

Things seem to be slowing down a bit. Looking through for inactives.