Game of Thrones (series spoiling only!)

[betiko]

I thought it might be the pie at first, but watching a second time, I noticed servants brought pie to the entire wedding party.

Something else that was suspicious to me. Varys...something is bothering him. He knows something that we don't know.

my guess. maybe you should wait until after the next episode

I think Shae might be dead.

why woil you put your wild guesses into spoilers? i don't see any conection there.
If varys knows something, is that the tyrells are setting up tyrion or something like that. He is extremely worried during the entire dwarf fight scene as if he knew what was comming. And given that he knows almost every plot comming up...

[denominator]

make a god damn book thread

Are we the only 2 guys here watching the show and who have never read the books?
It would be quite empty if they all leave... But damn they are annoying with their secret conversations!

I have not yet read all the books. I am currently reading the fourth book, A Feast For Crows. The show's current events are in the last third of the third book, A Storm of Swords.

For the first 3 seasons, I had not read the books, and they were very entertaining. Reading the books AFTER seeing the show helped me keep track of the original characters. I had tried reading them years ago before the show, but lost interest after the prologue of the first book because everybody died. I invested myself into the characters... then they all died and there were new ones. Having seen the show helped get my toe in the door with which characters were important and which were periphery characters.

Now, reading the books without knowing what happens has made the books more interesting. They are still worth reading if you have read the show, but reading them ahead of the show is much better. Joffrey's wedding in the book was much better than in the show.

The downside is that I find the show a little slow now. Each piece that is being set up now for payoff in a later episode becomes blatantly obvious and I find myself waiting for the reveal instead of trying to guess at each play. And even so, I'm only 1/3 of a book ahead of the show, I can't imagine having to wait for the payoff on some of the things 2 books hence that are being set up now (or were set up in an earlier season and have only just payed off).

[pearljamrox2]

why woil you put your wild guesses into spoilers? i don't see any conection there.
If varys knows something, is that the tyrells are setting up tyrion or something like that. He is extremely worried during the entire dwarf fight scene as if he knew what was comming. And given that he knows almost every plot comming up...

Assuming the wine was the poison, how did the Tyrell's set Tyrion up? How would they have known beforehand that Joffrey would pick on him so bad, and make him pour his wine? I think Tyrion was not the target here, he was just unlucky his sister hates him so, and Joffrey humilated him so bad at the wedding(and many other times) and tried to kill him even.

I do believe the "target" of the Tyrell "set-up" was actually more Sansa. Not that they were trying to screw her over, because her escape seems to have been part of the plan. But, at the very least, Sansa was used as an instrument in the plot without her knowledge. And at the worst, it seems to me, maybe they wanted it to be thought that Sansa got revenge(she has so much motive). If Sansa escapes and everyone thinks she did it, the real culprits would be safe. The ones behind it obviously wouldnt want to risk being connected to it in anyway. If it was part of her necklace, I imagine they will find the gem in the wine pitcher.

So, really, maybe they weren't setting her up, just...putting almost all of the risk on her, without her knowing about it. All she did was agree to wear the necklace, as a gesture of kindness to someone else Joffrey had abused. The people making the plan seems to have counted on her doing such a thing.

[The Bison King]

By the way... I didn t know there even was a mr tyrell still, surprised to see this character revealed. The tyrells were very feminine so far, maergery and her grandmother, and loras the gay knight.
So what s up with loras and maergery s parents? This family is quite mysterious.

That "Mr. Tyrell" (Mace Tyrell) is loras and maergery's dad, and Olenna's son. I'm not sure who their mother is. I don't think she's supposed to be dead but she's not present in the books either.

[betiko]

why woil you put your wild guesses into spoilers? i don't see any conection there.
If varys knows something, is that the tyrells are setting up tyrion or something like that. He is extremely worried during the entire dwarf fight scene as if he knew what was comming. And given that he knows almost every plot comming up...

Assuming the wine was the poison, how did the Tyrell's set Tyrion up? How would they have known beforehand that Joffrey would pick on him so bad, and make him pour his wine? I think Tyrion was not the target here, he was just unlucky his sister hates him so, and Joffrey humilated him so bad at the wedding(and many other times) and tried to kill him even.

I do believe the "target" of the Tyrell "set-up" was actually more Sansa. Not that they were trying to screw her over, because her escape seems to have been part of the plan. But, at the very least, Sansa was used as an instrument in the plot without her knowledge. And at the worst, it seems to me, maybe they wanted it to be thought that Sansa got revenge(she has so much motive). If Sansa escapes and everyone thinks she did it, the real culprits would be safe. The ones behind it obviously wouldnt want to risk being connected to it in anyway. If it was part of her necklace, I imagine they will find the gem in the wine pitcher.

So, really, maybe they weren't setting her up, just...putting almost all of the risk on her, without her knowing about it. All she did was agree to wear the necklace, as a gesture of kindness to someone else Joffrey had abused. The people making the plan seems to have counted on her doing such a thing.

ok so:

-that guy that got humiliated by joffrey and almost killed had to be genuinely greatful of what sansa did for him, sparing his life. What happened there? did he not know what was in that necklace? Would he get the inocent sansa into big trouble and sacrifice her just to get revenge from joffrey? We know to little about him to judge his personality, and we don't know his true links with the tyrells.

Regarding this possible tyrion setup; you forget that tyrion is sansa's husband, and he very likely could ve given her that necklace. Also, joffrey hiring 5/6 dwarfs to humiliate his uncle is very likey something he shared with his future wife; a TYRELL. You shold not forget that Maergery has all of joffrey's trust and that it was her wedding too. When she makes an anouncement, joffrey knew about it, so they definitely had the wedding planned together.
Tyrion has sucked it up and swallowed his pride pretty much. Maergery knew it had to go wrong. putting the poison in sansa's necklace just makes the tyrells unreachable. Either the humiliated dwarf uncle either the humiliated stark girl. pick your poison.

[patches70]

Sheesh, the plan isn't that complicated. The Tyrells need a fall guy to keep any suspicion from falling upon them. One of the obvious suspects would be Sansa, as she would have motive and opportunity. Having the poison contained in the necklace she is wearing further would point to Sansa being the culprit. And the Creme de la Creme is having Sansa fleeing, which would point most directly to her "guilt" in the crime.

By having Sansa removed from beyond the reach of the Lannister headsman, her husband would be held accountable because, well, he is her husband after all. The Tyrells wouldn't give a rats ass about the dwarf being executed. They'd probably have a nice giggle about that anyway.

It's a bloody simple plan, and all they have to do is get Sansa on the run. All the other stuff with Joffrey humiliating the dwarf was all just icing on the cake. Even if Joffrey had acted like a decent human being and didn't humiliate Tyrion the plan still would have gone just how they wanted, Sansa would be implicated, Tyrion would be held accountable as no one would believe he didn't know about the plot his wife seemingly cooked up and the scapegoat is all tied up in a nice little package with a bow tied on top. And none would be any the wiser.

What remains to be seen is what the Tyrells plan on doing with Sansa. They can't ever let her actually be questioned by anyone in King's landing. Do the Tyrells really care about Sansa at all? They were kind to her but was that all just an act? Will they eliminate Sansa? We can pretty much count on the former drunken knight turned drunken fool to end up dead. But what is to be done with Sansa? One thing though, she won't be going to Highgarden, that's for sure!
Hahaha.

So, who thinks they have an idea of what is going to happen to Sansa? Those who have read the books need not reply, since you already know what is going to happen. But for those of you who haven't, do you think the Tyrells really care about Sansa's well being? Or were they simply playing her the whole time?

They had to make sure she escaped from the wedding alive, that was central to the plot. Nothing screams "GUILTY!" more than someone on the run. Tyrion, it was important that he not leave the wedding. He has to be the fall guy who gets the ax in his wife's stead after all. After all, someone has to go to the chopping block. And Sansa is a bit easier to hide than it is hiding a dwarf. She can be anyone else, a dwarf will always be a dwarf. Tyrion will find himself hard pressed to ever hide anywhere in Westeros. A dwarf with a unique scar across his face. Simply changing his hair and calling himself by another name won't work for that poor bastard.

It's a shame, honestly, as Tyrion isn't a bad guy who certainly doesn't deserve the lot he's been cast.

[Gillipig]

Sheesh, the plan isn't that complicated. The Tyrells need a fall guy to keep any suspicion from falling upon them. One of the obvious suspects would be Sansa, as she would have motive and opportunity. Having the poison contained in the necklace she is wearing further would point to Sansa being the culprit. And the Creme de la Creme is having Sansa fleeing, which would point most directly to her "guilt" in the crime.

By having Sansa removed from beyond the reach of the Lannister headsman, her husband would be held accountable because, well, he is her husband after all. The Tyrells wouldn't give a rats ass about the dwarf being executed. They'd probably have a nice giggle about that anyway.

It's a bloody simple plan, and all they have to do is get Sansa on the run. All the other stuff with Joffrey humiliating the dwarf was all just icing on the cake. Even if Joffrey had acted like a decent human being and didn't humiliate Tyrion the plan still would have gone just how they wanted, Sansa would be implicated, Tyrion would be held accountable as no one would believe he didn't know about the plot his wife seemingly cooked up and the scapegoat is all tied up in a nice little package with a bow tied on top. And none would be any the wiser.

What remains to be seen is what the Tyrells plan on doing with Sansa. They can't ever let her actually be questioned by anyone in King's landing. Do the Tyrells really care about Sansa at all? They were kind to her but was that all just an act? Will they eliminate Sansa? We can pretty much count on the former drunken knight turned drunken fool to end up dead. But what is to be done with Sansa? One thing though, she won't be going to Highgarden, that's for sure!
Hahaha.

So, who thinks they have an idea of what is going to happen to Sansa? Those who have read the books need not reply, since you already know what is going to happen. But for those of you who haven't, do you think the Tyrells really care about Sansa's well being? Or were they simply playing her the whole time?

They had to make sure she escaped from the wedding alive, that was central to the plot. Nothing screams "GUILTY!" more than someone on the run. Tyrion, it was important that he not leave the wedding. He has to be the fall guy who gets the ax in his wife's stead after all. After all, someone has to go to the chopping block. And Sansa is a bit easier to hide than it is hiding a dwarf. She can be anyone else, a dwarf will always be a dwarf. Tyrion will find himself hard pressed to ever hide anywhere in Westeros. A dwarf with a unique scar across his face. Simply changing his hair and calling himself by another name won't work for that poor bastard.

It's a shame, honestly, as Tyrion isn't a bad guy who certainly doesn't deserve the lot he's been cast.

Spoiler

It wasn't the Tyrells.

[betiko]

Sheesh, the plan isn't that complicated. The Tyrells need a fall guy to keep any suspicion from falling upon them. One of the obvious suspects would be Sansa, as she would have motive and opportunity. Having the poison contained in the necklace she is wearing further would point to Sansa being the culprit. And the Creme de la Creme is having Sansa fleeing, which would point most directly to her "guilt" in the crime.

By having Sansa removed from beyond the reach of the Lannister headsman, her husband would be held accountable because, well, he is her husband after all. The Tyrells wouldn't give a rats ass about the dwarf being executed. They'd probably have a nice giggle about that anyway.

It's a bloody simple plan, and all they have to do is get Sansa on the run. All the other stuff with Joffrey humiliating the dwarf was all just icing on the cake. Even if Joffrey had acted like a decent human being and didn't humiliate Tyrion the plan still would have gone just how they wanted, Sansa would be implicated, Tyrion would be held accountable as no one would believe he didn't know about the plot his wife seemingly cooked up and the scapegoat is all tied up in a nice little package with a bow tied on top. And none would be any the wiser.

What remains to be seen is what the Tyrells plan on doing with Sansa. They can't ever let her actually be questioned by anyone in King's landing. Do the Tyrells really care about Sansa at all? They were kind to her but was that all just an act? Will they eliminate Sansa? We can pretty much count on the former drunken knight turned drunken fool to end up dead. But what is to be done with Sansa? One thing though, she won't be going to Highgarden, that's for sure!
Hahaha.

So, who thinks they have an idea of what is going to happen to Sansa? Those who have read the books need not reply, since you already know what is going to happen. But for those of you who haven't, do you think the Tyrells really care about Sansa's well being? Or were they simply playing her the whole time?

They had to make sure she escaped from the wedding alive, that was central to the plot. Nothing screams "GUILTY!" more than someone on the run. Tyrion, it was important that he not leave the wedding. He has to be the fall guy who gets the ax in his wife's stead after all. After all, someone has to go to the chopping block. And Sansa is a bit easier to hide than it is hiding a dwarf. She can be anyone else, a dwarf will always be a dwarf. Tyrion will find himself hard pressed to ever hide anywhere in Westeros. A dwarf with a unique scar across his face. Simply changing his hair and calling himself by another name won't work for that poor bastard.

It's a shame, honestly, as Tyrion isn't a bad guy who certainly doesn't deserve the lot he's been cast.

i think that sansa is going to be sent to her aunt, the tully arryn.
I mean come on, do I dislike the tyrells? they are awesome. well done guys. There is no beef between the tyrells and the starks for example; of course all these families are selfish and have an agenda. I think the tyrells had something against the lanisters and are destroying them from the inside.
Sansa is an asset for many people, just make he a scape goat for this isn't the best strategy.

oh; and all you are describing is pretty much what I'm describing. I was just thinking that as a result people would see either tyrion either sansa guilty. You are telling me it's more simple as they are setting up tyrion+sansa at the same time.

I can't wait tp see what will happen at the veil. the hound+arya; the aunt+ her psycho kid that must have grown since; littlefinger getting influence there... and who knows, sansa sent there by the tyrells maybe...

[pearljamrox2]

Sir Dontos was obviously in on the plot. That was the first clue for me. He came to help Sansa escape before Joffrey had even finished croaking. Yes, I am saying Sir Dontos knowingly mislead Sansa. I think maybe Sansa would have gone along with it anyway, I think she regretted missing her other opportunities to escape, and she is absolutely miserable. This is probably a great thing for Sansa, as long as she gets away safely(depending on where she has to go, I guess we will find out).

Did you see the looks on the Tyrell's faces during the Dwarf thing? You really think they had a part in that. Margaery is mortified at first, then she looks very sympathic towards Sansa, then she glares at the Lannisters, who are all laughing(except Tyrion). Olenna Tyrell looks like she has Tourette syndrome at one point she has such a hard time containing her outrage. You did notice that the horse Renly Baratheon Dwarf is riding is actually Loras Tyrell. That's why he got so mad and got up and left. You really think they "co-planned" that? It's pretty clear in all the reactions, all of the guest are disgusted or offended, even Oberyn Martell and it had nothing to do with him.

[patches70]

Spoiler

It wasn't the Tyrells.

Spoiler

Sure it was, but they certainly had certain other partners, who will be revealed soon enough. Like in the next few episodes, but it was a Tyrell who put the poison in Joffrey's cup.

Sir Dontos was obviously in on the plot. That was the first clue for me. He came to help Sansa escape before Joffrey had even finished croaking. Yes, I am saying Sir Dontos knowingly mislead Sansa.

Yeah, but who does Ser Dontos work for? That shall be revealed soon I think, care to take a guess?

This is probably a great thing for Sansa, as long as she gets away safely(depending on where she has to go, I guess we will find out).

It's funny how things work out, in real life and in fantasy. Knowing how things go in such stories, what makes you think Sansa isn't just going from the frying pan into the fire?

Did you see the looks on the Tyrell's faces during the Dwarf thing? You really think they had a part in that. Margaery is mortified at first, then she looks very sympathic towards Sansa, then she glares at the Lannisters, who are all laughing(except Tyrion). Olenna Tyrell looks like she has Tourette syndrome at one point she has such a hard time containing her outrage. You did notice that the horse Renly Baratheon Dwarf is riding is actually Loras Tyrell. That's why he got so mad and got up and left. You really think they "co-planned" that? It's pretty clear in all the reactions, all of the guest are disgusted or offended, even Oberyn Martell and it had nothing to do with him.

Ha! Who do you think was responsible for that? I don't know how the show is going to elaborate on that. It might not even be brought up again, but for some reason I think we might learn a little bit more about that troupe of dwarf entertainers, who hired them and why.

I think when all gets revealed the viewers will find out who is really the bad guy in this comedy. To me there is only one truly evil person of all the main characters (not counting The Others of course, they are beyond evil). Sure, Joffrey was a prick, a pretty bad guy all around, even evil to a degree, but true evil has a certain cunning that Joffrey lacked completely. Even Cersi who is a cunt still loves her children, so she can't be all that evil.
Even the Mountain who takes great pleasure in killing, raping and maiming still follows orders, he's just a psycho.
But there is one who is beyond all redemption who will do absolutely anything, hurt anyone, kill anyone, deceive anyone if it furthers his goals and this one is not insane. One who knows no bounds at all and is the quintessential villain of the whole series, book or TV. As the story progresses we'll get to understand perfectly how evil this one is. IMO.

[denominator]

Sansa is an asset for many people, just make he a scape goat for this isn't the best strategy.

Ned Stark is dead.
Robb Stark is dead.
Bran Stark is believed dead.
Rickon Stark is believed dead.

This makes Sansa the heir to Winterfell. Regardless of what the various houses think of Winterfell or the north in general, having control of it is important.

Further, with Arya missing / believed dead, Sansa's claim to Winterfell is even more important. This is why the Lannisters married her to Tyrion in the first place.

[betiko]

is your super-evil; tywin?

regarding ser dontos; i guess that if you ask the question it's because he is unrelated to the tyrell and works for someone else. I'll give it a shot: littlefinger.

[betiko]

Sansa is an asset for many people, just make he a scape goat for this isn't the best strategy.

Ned Stark is dead.
Robb Stark is dead.
Bran Stark is believed dead.
Rickon Stark is believed dead.

This makes Sansa the heir to Winterfell. Regardless of what the various houses think of Winterfell or the north in general, having control of it is important.

Further, with Arya missing / believed dead, Sansa's claim to Winterfell is even more important. This is why the Lannisters married her to Tyrion in the first place.

yup that's pretty much what I meant. the word that rickion and bran are still alive will probably reach the capital soon though, given that theon has revealed that he didn't kill them and he just burned some farm boys. ah well, he actually told the boltons that are doing everything possible to find them and kill them, so i doubt they will reveal it unless some spy learn it.

[Army of GOD]

Rickon is so insignificant. Bran is probably the most important character, given what hes TRYING to do, and I forget Rickons name like 50% of the time.

[strike wolf]

Spoiler

It wasn't the Tyrells.

Spoiler

Sure it was, but they certainly had certain other partners, who will be revealed soon enough. Like in the next few episodes, but it was a Tyrell who put the poison in Joffrey's cup.

Sir Dontos was obviously in on the plot. That was the first clue for me. He came to help Sansa escape before Joffrey had even finished croaking. Yes, I am saying Sir Dontos knowingly mislead Sansa.

Yeah, but who does Ser Dontos work for? That shall be revealed soon I think, care to take a guess?

This is probably a great thing for Sansa, as long as she gets away safely(depending on where she has to go, I guess we will find out).

It's funny how things work out, in real life and in fantasy. Knowing how things go in such stories, what makes you think Sansa isn't just going from the frying pan into the fire?

Did you see the looks on the Tyrell's faces during the Dwarf thing? You really think they had a part in that. Margaery is mortified at first, then she looks very sympathic towards Sansa, then she glares at the Lannisters, who are all laughing(except Tyrion). Olenna Tyrell looks like she has Tourette syndrome at one point she has such a hard time containing her outrage. You did notice that the horse Renly Baratheon Dwarf is riding is actually Loras Tyrell. That's why he got so mad and got up and left. You really think they "co-planned" that? It's pretty clear in all the reactions, all of the guest are disgusted or offended, even Oberyn Martell and it had nothing to do with him.

Ha! Who do you think was responsible for that? I don't know how the show is going to elaborate on that. It might not even be brought up again, but for some reason I think we might learn a little bit more about that troupe of dwarf entertainers, who hired them and why.

I think when all gets revealed the viewers will find out who is really the bad guy in this comedy. To me there is only one truly evil person of all the main characters (not counting The Others of course, they are beyond evil). Sure, Joffrey was a prick, a pretty bad guy all around, even evil to a degree, but true evil has a certain cunning that Joffrey lacked completely. Even Cersi who is a cunt still loves her children, so she can't be all that evil.
Even the Mountain who takes great pleasure in killing, raping and maiming still follows orders, he's just a psycho.
But there is one who is beyond all redemption who will do absolutely anything, hurt anyone, kill anyone, deceive anyone if it furthers his goals and this one is not insane. One who knows no bounds at all and is the quintessential villain of the whole series, book or TV. As the story progresses we'll get to understand perfectly how evil this one is. IMO.

Spoiler

Way to eliminate all but two people. Anyways, I don't know if Littlefinger is the only true evil. Roose and Ramsay have both been basically shown in the books to do whatever they can to gain power and Ramsay is a sadist, brother killer to boot. I don't think there is much redemption for either of them. I would also disagree. It only takes a minute of looking at Littlefinger's relationship with Sansa to realize that he's also a psycho, he's just smart enough to hide it better than most.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Rickon is so insignificant. Bran is probably the most important character, given what hes TRYING to do, and I forget Rickons name like 50% of the time.

Well, Rickon is, like, 5 or 6 iirc, so that's not a surprise. He makes a good puppet for a controlling family, though.

[Gillipig]

Spoiler

It wasn't the Tyrells.

Spoiler

Sure it was, but they certainly had certain other partners, who will be revealed soon enough. Like in the next few episodes, but it was a Tyrell who put the poison in Joffrey's cup.

Spoiler

When I read the book I got the impression Baelish was responsible, might've remembered it wrong though, he was certainly involved however.

[patches70]

Spoiler

It wasn't the Tyrells.

Spoiler

Sure it was, but they certainly had certain other partners, who will be revealed soon enough. Like in the next few episodes, but it was a Tyrell who put the poison in Joffrey's cup.

Spoiler

When I read the book I got the impression Baelish was responsible, might've remembered it wrong though, he was certainly involved however.

Spoiler

Oh yes, you are correct in that, Baelish was involved up to the hilt. He is as responsible as the Tyrells. They were partners in that conspiracy for certain. Olenna put the poison in Joffrey's wine cup, Baelish provided the poison and how to get it into the wedding as well as logistics to set up Sansa and Tyrion

[Army of GOD]

Yesterday's episode was meh. Nothing terribly exciting.


Though I have to say, the new Daario is going to require effort from me to like. The kld one had a great pompous ass feel about him, which fits very well with the character. This one looks like a hockey player.

[betiko]

Yesterday's episode was meh. Nothing terribly exciting.


Though I have to say, the new Daario is going to require effort from me to like. The kld one had a great pompous ass feel about him, which fits very well with the character. This one looks like a hockey player.

yeah the other one was more mysterious, this one is quite straigh forwad imo.
So I guessed right, ser dontos was working for littlefinger! He wasn't even mentioned during the wedding... Don't people know who littlefinger is???

so the hound is a bit more of a bastard that we would've thought in the last episodes.

tommen... I don't know he sounds like a good young lad. I doubt hewill last as long as his brother, but he will definitely be a better boyking

[betiko]

ok that last episode was quite alright.
so looks like there will be a few stark reunions (although you never know..) bran and jon at craster's and arya and sansa at the vale. hope both things happen.
I hope jon makes it on time...

I was surprised to learn that maergery didn't know her grandma did the poisoning and that when she gave the cup she wasn't part of the plot... Anyway, I really like those tyrell girls, quite smart.

jaimie is starting to not make any sense.... his sister is clearly delusional and a complete cunt with him. their relationship made sense as long as they were soulmates, but they clearly are radically not on the same page by now and grew completely different. He has a sense of justice now, I hope he will not let his brother down for that cunt sister.
I think like everyone I really like the lannister brothers by now. And Brienne with pod, that's a cool pair! I didn't really get what jaimie asked brienne to do though when she finds her... protect her from cersei and never come back basically right? not clear.

regarding the white walkers... that "king" is a new guy right? till now it looked like the guy who brought the baby was their leader, but looks like we discovered the supreme leader. not very interesting. to tell the truth, i think the white walkers stuff is shit and irrelevant in the GOT story.

daenerys... well same ol' same ol. Pretty clear that there will be negative consequences to the crucifictions she went for. smells like problems now.

oh and rickion and the wildling girl... where did they go after the windmill? can't remember where they decided to go.

other question: at this point, for littlefinger, which starks are still alive? sansa and arya right? he is the one that organised arya's getaway. He probably has no clue of what happened after that, but can assume she is still alive somewhere. for him rickion and bran are dead, killed by theon right?

[strike wolf]

ok that last episode was quite alright.
so looks like there will be a few stark reunions (although you never know..) bran and jon at craster's and arya and sansa at the vale. hope both things happen.
I hope jon makes it on time...

I was surprised to learn that maergery didn't know her grandma did the poisoning and that when she gave the cup she wasn't part of the plot... Anyway, I really like those tyrell girls, quite smart.

Doesn't surprise me. Maergery is smart but she is also mostly good-hearted. Poisoning someone isn't really something she would immediately want.

jaimie is starting to not make any sense.... his sister is clearly delusional and a complete cunt with him. their relationship made sense as long as they were soulmates, but they clearly are radically not on the same page by now and grew completely different. He has a sense of justice now, I hope he will not let his brother down for that cunt sister.
I think like everyone I really like the lannister brothers by now. And Brienne with pod, that's a cool pair! I didn't really get what jaimie asked brienne to do though when she finds her... protect her from cersei and never come back basically right? not clear.

Well technically Cersei cares for him but she cares for herself more than anyone else and this isn't the first time she's used him for her own selfish gain.

Yeah pretty much. Her job is to find Sansa and make sure she stays safe.

regarding the white walkers... that "king" is a new guy right? till now it looked like the guy who brought the baby was their leader, but looks like we discovered the supreme leader. not very interesting. to tell the truth, i think the white walkers stuff is shit and irrelevant in the GOT story.

They are potentially the biggest threat out of everyone if the Wall was to fall (except maybe Daenerys' dragons) and it's been foreshadowed in the books that the Wall may fall.

daenerys... well same ol' same ol. Pretty clear that there will be negative consequences to the crucifictions she went for. smells like problems now.

Yeah this was the part of the books when I really started to lose some sympathy for her.

oh and rickion and the wildling girl... where did they go after the windmill? can't remember where they decided to go.

If I remember correctly they are supposed to be heading south which could prove problematic now that the Boltons "rule" the North.

other question: at this point, for littlefinger, which starks are still alive? sansa and arya right? he is the one that organised arya's getaway. He probably has no clue of what happened after that, but can assume she is still alive somewhere. for him rickion and bran are dead, killed by theon right?

As far as Littlefinger knows, Sansa is the only one left alive, not including Jon. Littlefinger is smart but his connections outside of Kingslanding are spread too thin for him to know that Arya is still alive unless he has a mole inside the Brotherhood Without Banners (come to think of it, I guess I shouldn't rule that out as all of it's original members were in Kingslanding before riding out to kill the Mountain.). Her escape from Kingslanding as far as we know was just an act of kindness from the guy visiting Kingslanding to recruit men for the Wall. The North and Ned Stark had always been a friend to the Wall and he felt this was a good way to repay that trust.

[betiko]

ok that last episode was quite alright.
so looks like there will be a few stark reunions (although you never know..) bran and jon at craster's and arya and sansa at the vale. hope both things happen.
I hope jon makes it on time...

I was surprised to learn that maergery didn't know her grandma did the poisoning and that when she gave the cup she wasn't part of the plot... Anyway, I really like those tyrell girls, quite smart.

Doesn't surprise me. Maergery is smart but she is also mostly good-hearted. Poisoning someone isn't really something she would immediately want.

I thought she was much more machiavelical than that. The way she behaved with joffrey made me thing she had a lot of game. She still has some slick moves with tommen, she can't be that "kindhearted girl"

jaimie is starting to not make any sense.... his sister is clearly delusional and a complete cunt with him. their relationship made sense as long as they were soulmates, but they clearly are radically not on the same page by now and grew completely different. He has a sense of justice now, I hope he will not let his brother down for that cunt sister.
I think like everyone I really like the lannister brothers by now. And Brienne with pod, that's a cool pair! I didn't really get what jaimie asked brienne to do though when she finds her... protect her from cersei and never come back basically right? not clear.

Well technically Cersei cares for him but she cares for herself more than anyone else and this isn't the first time she's used him for her own selfish gain.

Yeah pretty much. Her job is to find Sansa and make sure she stays safe.

Yes, I do understand that cersei cares for him a bit, but not even close to what she cares about her kids and her plots. If she had to chose between tomen being king and the life of jaimie, she would go kill jaimie herself. I guess jaimie is smart enough to know that and to know that she is totally using him. It is obvious that he has a spark of something for brienne. She is the one that made him a new better man. This and the fact of losing his hand, it made him reconsider everything. By the way... Tyrion didn't say anything about this. He didn't say anything about his obvious character change. Jaimie was a huge cunt before he met Brienne.

regarding the white walkers... that "king" is a new guy right? till now it looked like the guy who brought the baby was their leader, but looks like we discovered the supreme leader. not very interesting. to tell the truth, i think the white walkers stuff is shit and irrelevant in the GOT story.

They are potentially the biggest threat out of everyone if the Wall was to fall (except maybe Daenerys' dragons) and it's been foreshadowed in the books that the Wall may fall.


Yeah I get they are the biggest threat and probably what will unite all kingdoms by the end of the books to go fight them. It's still crap. Don't like that storyline.

daenerys... well same ol' same ol. Pretty clear that there will be negative consequences to the crucifictions she went for. smells like problems now.

Yeah this was the part of the books when I really started to lose some sympathy for her.

I guess she will come into play when the white walkers are about to kill the entire westeros, and her dragons will be full adults by then. GRR Martin is probably going to make up some crappy stuff to keep this character in the general storyline in the meanwhile.

oh and rickion and the wildling girl... where did they go after the windmill? can't remember where they decided to go.

If I remember correctly they are supposed to be heading south which could prove problematic now that the Boltons "rule" the North.

huh.... and given that the boltons know that rickion and bran are alive and some guys are looking for them.... this smells really bad for rickion!

other question: at this point, for littlefinger, which starks are still alive? sansa and arya right? he is the one that organised arya's getaway. He probably has no clue of what happened after that, but can assume she is still alive somewhere. for him rickion and bran are dead, killed by theon right?

As far as Littlefinger knows, Sansa is the only one left alive, not including Jon. Littlefinger is smart but his connections outside of Kingslanding are spread too thin for him to know that Arya is still alive unless he has a mole inside the Brotherhood Without Banners (come to think of it, I guess I shouldn't rule that out as all of it's original members were in Kingslanding before riding out to kill the Mountain.). Her escape from Kingslanding as far as we know was just an act of kindness from the guy visiting Kingslanding to recruit men for the Wall. The North and Ned Stark had always been a friend to the Wall and he felt this was a good way to repay that trust.

Well as far as he knows there is no reason to believe that arya is dead. I doubt he ever got her death reported, so he just doesn't know. I don't know, you guys seem to imply that littlefinger is the incarnation of evil. I just see a master strategist so far. Unlike ramsey snow (or whatever his name is) who is pure evil, just like joffrey.

[strike wolf]

Honestly, I like the story line on the wall and I like Arya's storyline as well. Kingslanding is great. It's Theon, Bran and Daenerys' storylines that I don't care for that much.

I would say that Jaime is starting to realize it. He hadn't started to realize it until recently.

Margaery is smart and she knows how to be manipulative but going by the show and what little is known about her in the books, I would say she is fairly kind-hearted.

I'm not sure when Daenerys will come into play or how she'll react. She still has to visit Asshai before coming to Westeros (At least that would make sense as she was told to go there back in Qarth).

IT could potentially be bad for Rickon yes. Really wait and see on that.

There is also no real reason to believe that she is alive either. They are in the middle of a war and no one has heard from Arya in over a year at this point. She is presumed dead even by her own family. Littlefinger is a bit evil. He's not sadistic like Ramsay or Joffrey but he murders, lies, cheats and betrays to get whatever power he can and there's really no hint that if he did come to power that he would be a benevolent ruler.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Are you kidding? The Bran storyline in the fifth book is great, as well as the just deserts of Theon. IMO.

-TG