Game of Thrones (series spoiling only!)

[Gillipig]

I am trying to remember if any of the books describe Jamie's personality before he became known as the King Slayer. It seems Jamie had a code before that incident. He basically killed the King because he was going to lite up Kings Landing if I remember correctly. Then everyone hearing from Ned witnessing Jamie murdering the King basically passed judgement. Losing his hand maybe he has come back full circle.

So ned was the one advertising in all westeros the jaimie killed the king? I can understand why jaimie hated the starks after that.

Ned Stark wasn't pissed that Jaimie betrayed his king, he was pissed that Jaimie didn't betray him until he had already lost and basically killed him to save his own skin. At least that's how I interpreted it. It also didn't help that he stabbed him in the back, for someone as honour bound as Ned Stark, killing someone who has his back turned to you is a cowardly act, whoever it is you're killing.

[betiko]

I am trying to remember if any of the books describe Jamie's personality before he became known as the King Slayer. It seems Jamie had a code before that incident. He basically killed the King because he was going to lite up Kings Landing if I remember correctly. Then everyone hearing from Ned witnessing Jamie murdering the King basically passed judgement. Losing his hand maybe he has come back full circle.

So ned was the one advertising in all westeros the jaimie killed the king? I can understand why jaimie hated the starks after that.

Ned Stark wasn't pissed that Jaimie betrayed his king, he was pissed that Jaimie didn't betray him until he had already lost and basically killed him to save his own skin. At least that's how I interpreted it. It also didn't help that he stabbed him in the back, for someone as honour bound as Ned Stark, killing someone who has his back turned to you is a cowardly act, whoever it is you're killing.

ned stark was a pussy, i'm glad he got his dumb head chopped off. Jaimie did what he had to do. If Jaimie had no honour he would've left the king's guard long ago.

[strike wolf]

I am trying to remember if any of the books describe Jamie's personality before he became known as the King Slayer. It seems Jamie had a code before that incident. He basically killed the King because he was going to lite up Kings Landing if I remember correctly. Then everyone hearing from Ned witnessing Jamie murdering the King basically passed judgement. Losing his hand maybe he has come back full circle.

So ned was the one advertising in all westeros the jaimie killed the king? I can understand why jaimie hated the starks after that.

Ned Stark wasn't pissed that Jaimie betrayed his king, he was pissed that Jaimie didn't betray him until he had already lost and basically killed him to save his own skin. At least that's how I interpreted it. It also didn't help that he stabbed him in the back, for someone as honour bound as Ned Stark, killing someone who has his back turned to you is a cowardly act, whoever it is you're killing.

Not really. He was pissed that Jaime Lannister killed the king that he was oath bound to protect. Killing him from behind was just the icing on the cake.

[Gillipig]

I am trying to remember if any of the books describe Jamie's personality before he became known as the King Slayer. It seems Jamie had a code before that incident. He basically killed the King because he was going to lite up Kings Landing if I remember correctly. Then everyone hearing from Ned witnessing Jamie murdering the King basically passed judgement. Losing his hand maybe he has come back full circle.

So ned was the one advertising in all westeros the jaimie killed the king? I can understand why jaimie hated the starks after that.

Ned Stark wasn't pissed that Jaimie betrayed his king, he was pissed that Jaimie didn't betray him until he had already lost and basically killed him to save his own skin. At least that's how I interpreted it. It also didn't help that he stabbed him in the back, for someone as honour bound as Ned Stark, killing someone who has his back turned to you is a cowardly act, whoever it is you're killing.

Not really. He was pissed that Jaime Lannister killed the king that he was oath bound to protect. Killing him from behind was just the icing on the cake.

No I don't think the biggest thing was that he betrayed his king, Ned was part of the rebellion and also betrayed his king. The most important part is that he betrayed him late in the rebellion, when he had already lost and it was safe to betray him. If you have some quotes from the book where it is evident that it's otherwise that would be interesting to read. We can watch the clip from the TV series, when Jaimie presses Ned asking "If I stabbed the mad king in the belly instead of the back, would you admire me more?", Ned replies "You served him well, when serving was safe." Indicating that he was upset with him for not rebelling until at the very end, when it was safe to rebell.

[Sackett58]

I'll have to go find that chapter where Jaime explains to Brienne why he murdered the king.

[strike wolf]

So ned was the one advertising in all westeros the jaimie killed the king? I can understand why jaimie hated the starks after that.

Ned Stark wasn't pissed that Jaimie betrayed his king, he was pissed that Jaimie didn't betray him until he had already lost and basically killed him to save his own skin. At least that's how I interpreted it. It also didn't help that he stabbed him in the back, for someone as honour bound as Ned Stark, killing someone who has his back turned to you is a cowardly act, whoever it is you're killing.

Not really. He was pissed that Jaime Lannister killed the king that he was oath bound to protect. Killing him from behind was just the icing on the cake.

No I don't think the biggest thing was that he betrayed his king, Ned was part of the rebellion and also betrayed his king. The most important part is that he betrayed him late in the rebellion, when he had already lost and it was safe to betray him. If you have some quotes from the book where it is evident that it's otherwise that would be interesting to read. We can watch the clip from the TV series, when Jaimie presses Ned asking "If I stabbed the mad king in the belly instead of the back, would you admire me more?", Ned replies "You served him well, when serving was safe." Indicating that he was upset with him for not rebelling until at the very end, when it was safe to rebell.

Okay that is true enough. Ned thought that Jaime was in on Tywin's plan to trick the king and raid the city but the main reason is still that Jaime was a kings guard who killed his king. The only things worse than that in the Westerosi culture is kin slaying and breaking guest right (Looking at you Walder Frey). Family is paramount. If Ned Stark was anything, he was honor bound to avenge his brother/father's unjust death and rescue his sister. The main problem is that Jaime was a kings guard who killed his king. There is a reason that Ned has more respect for Ser Arthur Dane and Gerald Hightower who kept their oaths even after the Mad King was dead than he does for Jaime Lannister.

I'll have to go find that chapter where Jaime explains to Brienne why he murdered the king.

Don't need to:

[patches70]

I think Ned Stark might have had a different opinion if he'd known what the Mad King's plans were, to burn the whole city with wildfire. No one but Jamie knew about that, not Ned, not Robert, not anyone. Jamie kept it to himself and just let everyone believe what they wanted.

[strike wolf]

I think Ned Stark might have had a different opinion if he'd known what the Mad King's plans were, to burn the whole city with wildfire. No one but Jamie knew about that, not Ned, not Robert, not anyone. Jamie kept it to himself and just let everyone believe what they wanted.

It's very possible. I honestly don't think Jaime made much of an effort to explain it away anyways. I mean he seems to feel guilty over it himself and for a while maybe thought he deserved the scorn. I would wonder if he had said something along the lines of "The Mad King wanted to kill my father. I killed him to prevent that. Isn't that why you joined this war to protect your sister and avenge your family?" if Ned would have listened.

[Gillipig]

So ned was the one advertising in all westeros the jaimie killed the king? I can understand why jaimie hated the starks after that.

Ned Stark wasn't pissed that Jaimie betrayed his king, he was pissed that Jaimie didn't betray him until he had already lost and basically killed him to save his own skin. At least that's how I interpreted it. It also didn't help that he stabbed him in the back, for someone as honour bound as Ned Stark, killing someone who has his back turned to you is a cowardly act, whoever it is you're killing.

Not really. He was pissed that Jaime Lannister killed the king that he was oath bound to protect. Killing him from behind was just the icing on the cake.

No I don't think the biggest thing was that he betrayed his king, Ned was part of the rebellion and also betrayed his king. The most important part is that he betrayed him late in the rebellion, when he had already lost and it was safe to betray him. If you have some quotes from the book where it is evident that it's otherwise that would be interesting to read. We can watch the clip from the TV series, when Jaimie presses Ned asking "If I stabbed the mad king in the belly instead of the back, would you admire me more?", Ned replies "You served him well, when serving was safe." Indicating that he was upset with him for not rebelling until at the very end, when it was safe to rebell.

Okay that is true enough. Ned thought that Jaime was in on Tywin's plan to trick the king and raid the city but the main reason is still that Jaime was a kings guard who killed his king. The only things worse than that in the Westerosi culture is kin slaying and breaking guest right (Looking at you Walder Frey). Family is paramount. If Ned Stark was anything, he was honor bound to avenge his brother/father's unjust death and rescue his sister. The main problem is that Jaime was a kings guard who killed his king. There is a reason that Ned has more respect for Ser Arthur Dane and Gerald Hightower who kept their oaths even after the Mad King was dead than he does for Jaime Lannister.

I'll have to go find that chapter where Jaime explains to Brienne why he murdered the king.

Don't need to:

It's interesting but it's Jaimie's point of view that is described, what we were debating was Ned Stark's motivations, was it solely that he killed the king he was under oath to protect, or did Ned also care a lot about how late Jaimie switched sides? Does someone have the first book at home and can find dialogue in question? I borrowed the books when I read them so i don't have it anymore.
I don't remember how their dialogoue was played out in the book, but from the conversation we saw in the TV series, Ned seems to emphasize what he perceived as the cowardness of joining the rebells at such a late stage, "You served him well when serving was safe."
Jaimie's counterargument (from the bath scene with Brienne) seems to be that he didn't intend to switch sides, and only switched sides when Aerys ordered his pyromancer to burn the city. It would be interesting to see Ned Starks reaction if he had known that was the motivation behinds Jaimies oath breaking, not self preservation.
In some way Jaimie views himself as an honourable man, that's why it wounds his pride when people talk behind his back. He fucks his sister, cheats on the king, tries to kill a child and yet somehow he's bothered when people don't hold his honour in high regard. I think it's because he earned his mocking name "kingslayer" for doing something he didn't consider to be immoral, if what he says is true he saved thousands of lives by killing the mad king before his pyromancer could set the city on fire.

[Sackett58]

A lot of the awful things he has done seems to be after killing the king. Wasn't it Cersei that said she was the first to come out and Jaime followed when they were born? She seems to have always had a hold on him from the start. Now he questions himself and he starts to pull away from her control. Jaime's character changes soo much that I am liking his character more now than Tyrion's.

[patches70]

After the sacking of King's Landing and the events of Jamie murdering the Mad King, after Robert had ascended the throne, there was a discussion of what was to be done with Jamie.

Ned Stark argued that Jamie should be stripped of his White Cloak and at the very least sent to the Wall and the Night's Watch for breaking his oath.
Jon Arryn argued that Jamie should be pardoned.
Robert went with Arryn's advice. It was one of the things that led to Robert's and Ned's rift, Ned left soon after in disgust back to Winterfell.
In fact, probably when Robert came to Winterfell to recruit Ned to be The Hand was the first time Ned and Jamie had seen each other since that time.

Anyway, Robert went with Arryn's advice (not too surprising as Aryn was The Hand of the King) pardoning Jamie and Selmy.

It was also when Robert pardoned Jamie that it was Robert who officially gave Jamie the name "Kingslayer".

As for Jamie, there was a time before the rebellion when Jamie found himself in many troubling situations regarding the Mad King. For instance, once Jamie and Ser Darry were standing watch outside Queen Rhaella's bed chamber, the Mad King was inside raping her. She was screaming, crying and such as one could imagine. Jamie looked at Darry and said "We are sworn to protect the Queen as well".
Darry replied-
"Aye, but not from him."

Jamie had much the same reaction when the Mad King burned Brandon and Rickard Stark to death and was reminded by Ser Hightower that they were sworn to protect the king, "not to judge him".

Jamie dealt with these situations by "going away" as he puts it. The very same advice he gave to Brienne when she was about to be raped by Vargo's men and the same advice he gave to Tommen when the boy (TV watchers, don't read the spoiler, book readers is ok, not a book spoiler unless you haven't read the book)

Spoiler

complained about the smell of Twyin's body

.

On the night of the Mad King's murder, Jamie killed someone else just before he killed the king. Jamie killed Rossart and when Jamie went to the King, the King saw the blood on the sword and asked- "Is that Tywin's blood? As I ordered?"
When Jamie told the King that the blood was Roosart's blood, the Mad King understood what was going on and got so scared he shit and pissed himself and tried to run away. Jamie cut his throat.

I think it's said in the TV series that Jamie stabbed the Mad King in the back, without the king even being aware he was about to be betrayed. This is not so true. Jamie chased him down easily and cut his throat and left the body laying while he sat on the Iron Throne and just waited.
Jamie cut his throat so that the Mad King wouldn't be able to give the command to burn the city to some other pyromancer.

While Jamie was cutting the King's throat, Ser Elys Westerling and Lord Roland Crakehall came into the room and watched what Jamie did. Because of their intrusion at that moment, Jamie couldn't just slip away and let the blame for the Mad King's death fall on someone else. So Jamie just sat down and told them to advise all those still fighting that the King was dead and there was no reason to keep fighting.

Westerling and Crakehall asked if a new king should be proclaimed as well when they made their announcement. Maybe Tywin, or Robert or even one of the surviving Targaryens. Jamie laughed to himself thinking about putting another Targaryen on the throne since madness seemed to be in their blood and told Crakehall "It's all the same to me", as in he didn't give a shit who became king next.

And he was still sitting there when Robert and Ned entered the throne room.

I guess Jamie finally reached the point that he couldn't just "go away" when the Mad King ordered the burning of perhaps 10's of thousands of people. Jamie considers his killing of the Mad King as one of his finest acts. Though his true motivation for the murder is unknown to almost everyone.

Most people just speculate that Jamie did it at the behest or for his father, Tywin. Others may say Jamie did it for himself, for Jamie though a Kingsguard was also a hostage. That's why the Mad King kept Jamie close, to keep Tywin loyal. At Tywin's betrayal, that sealed Jamie's fate as far as the Mad King was concerned. Jamie would have eventually been executed as a traitor even if he hadn't betrayed the King. Most likely burned to death. And all those never crossed Jamie's mind when he killed the King, he was only thinking that the madness had to end, that the allowing of all those innocent people to be burned to death was a greater betrayal than his oath to protect the King. And he stoically kept that motivation to himself.

[strike wolf]

Robert wasn't there at Kings Landing. He had stayed back at the Trident for a day or so to have a wound he took while fighting Rhaegar Targaryen treated. Ned Stark led the rebel armies to Kings Landing instead as Robert's second in command. By the time, Robert arrived the battle was over and he found out from Ned.

Ned blamed the Lannisters in general for their late entry into the war. He despises Jaime in particular for being the Kings Guard to kill the king.

[strike wolf]

To be less serious, the motto of the Starks is "Winter is coming". What do they say when Winter is there? Do they become Paul Revere? Or are they those guys at schools/work who are like "Hah! Told ya."?

[patches70]

Robert wasn't there at Kings Landing.

Oh yes, you're right. It was Ned who came in and claimed the throne for Robert and saw Jamie sitting on the Iron Throne.

After that, Jamie went and hunted down the two other pyromancers, Belis and Garigus, and he did that in secret as well.

Ned didn't like Jamie because Jamie betrayed his oath, from Game of Thrones, the exchange between Robert and Ned-

Robert: Why should I mistrust him? He has done everything I have ever asked of him. His sword helped win the throne I sit on.
Eddard: He swore a vow to protect his king's life with his own. Then he opened that king's throat with a sword.
Robert: Seven hells, someone had to kill Aerys! if Jaime hadn't done it, it would have been left for you or me.
Eddard: We were not Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard.

Never once had I ever seen any mention from Ned, or Robert or anyone else of the Mad King's plans for King's Landing.
We also know that Jamie wasn't lying about the terrible deed the Mad King was about to do. Tyrion himself while Hand of the King found the great stash of wildfire hidden away in the bowels of the Red Keep or there about.

Jamie kept all that to himself. WE also know that Jamie did not betray his oath and sully the symbol of the White Cloak, at least in his mind. From Storm of Swords to Brienne-

It was that white cloak that soiled me, not the other way around.

And of course, Jamie takes it all stoically. His thoughts about himself, Storm of Swords-

That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.

Ha, the Smiling Knight. No, Jamie was a deeply troubled man, troubled by what he's seen and done and all the while always trying to do the right thing.I'm pretty confident that Ned never knew the full story. Barristan Selmy holds the same opinion that Ned did, and Selmy is well respected. Selmy also doesn't know the full story about what the Mad King intended, because Selmy was laid up wounded at the Trident.
I wonder, would Selmy, had he been in Jamie's place, allowed the Mad King to burn all of King's Landing with wildfire? Wildfire, reported to be able to burn almost anything, can't be put out and by all accounts is a horrible way to die. It's a deed too horrendous to contemplate for a sane individual. I don't think even Selmy would have let that go, but who knows? Maybe he would have. Perhaps before Jamie dies, and die he will at some point, maybe the true extent of what he did will be made known and all those left alive who have always vilified him will reconsider their opinion.

But it is an interesting dynamic, how far is it allowable to go to uphold one's oath?
And are there principles that stand above any such oaths?

Jamie found an answer, Ned and others have been fortunate that their oaths were not tested as such.

[Gillipig]

Robert wasn't there at Kings Landing.

Oh yes, you're right. It was Ned who came in and claimed the throne for Robert and saw Jamie sitting on the Iron Throne.

After that, Jamie went and hunted down the two other pyromancers, Belis and Garigus, and he did that in secret as well.

Ned didn't like Jamie because Jamie betrayed his oath, from Game of Thrones, the exchange between Robert and Ned-

Robert: Why should I mistrust him? He has done everything I have ever asked of him. His sword helped win the throne I sit on.
Eddard: He swore a vow to protect his king's life with his own. Then he opened that king's throat with a sword.
Robert: Seven hells, someone had to kill Aerys! if Jaime hadn't done it, it would have been left for you or me.
Eddard: We were not Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard.

Never once had I ever seen any mention from Ned, or Robert or anyone else of the Mad King's plans for King's Landing.
We also know that Jamie wasn't lying about the terrible deed the Mad King was about to do. Tyrion himself while Hand of the King found the great stash of wildfire hidden away in the bowels of the Red Keep or there about.

Jamie kept all that to himself. WE also know that Jamie did not betray his oath and sully the symbol of the White Cloak, at least in his mind. From Storm of Swords to Brienne-

It was that white cloak that soiled me, not the other way around.

And of course, Jamie takes it all stoically. His thoughts about himself, Storm of Swords-

That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.

Ha, the Smiling Knight. No, Jamie was a deeply troubled man, troubled by what he's seen and done and all the while always trying to do the right thing.I'm pretty confident that Ned never knew the full story. Barristan Selmy holds the same opinion that Ned did, and Selmy is well respected. Selmy also doesn't know the full story about what the Mad King intended, because Selmy was laid up wounded at the Trident.
I wonder, would Selmy, had he been in Jamie's place, allowed the Mad King to burn all of King's Landing with wildfire? Wildfire, reported to be able to burn almost anything, can't be put out and by all accounts is a horrible way to die. It's a deed too horrendous to contemplate for a sane individual. I don't think even Selmy would have let that go, but who knows? Maybe he would have. Perhaps before Jamie dies, and die he will at some point, maybe the true extent of what he did will be made known and all those left alive who have always vilified him will reconsider their opinion.

But it is an interesting dynamic, how far is it allowable to go to uphold one's oath?
And are there principles that stand above any such oaths?

Jamie found an answer, Ned and others have been fortunate that their oaths were not tested as such.

Damn, you remember everything don't you? Now that you say it I remember the wildfire staches but I wouldn't have remembered it unless reminded, and then there were other stuff like their conversation that I now remember but didn't before. I take it you've read them more than once?

[betiko]

It s funny to see that no one reminds us of the worse thing Jaimie did in my opinion. For me it s when he was a stark prisoner and he killed this nice guy that was sort of a cousin. For me the most cruel act from Jaimie. Concerning the incest with his sister, I think she is the one to blame and the one that brought him into this. After all, she seems to have a psychological problem, using other cousins ac toy boys and always wanting to keep this only in the family. I wouldn t be surprised if the reason behind all this is that tywinn raped her as a child and she became fucked up.

[strike wolf]

It s funny to see that no one reminds us of the worse thing Jaimie did in my opinion. For me it s when he was a stark prisoner and he killed this nice guy that was sort of a cousin. For me the most cruel act from Jaimie. Concerning the incest with his sister, I think she is the one to blame and the one that brought him into this. After all, she seems to have a psychological problem, using other cousins ac toy boys and always wanting to keep this only in the family. I wouldn t be surprised if the reason behind all this is that tywinn raped her as a child and she became fucked up.

Bran will always be the worst. I know the moment you are talking about and I didn't particularly like it either but I don't consider it his worst moment.

[patches70]

It s funny to see that no one reminds us of the worse thing Jaimie did in my opinion. For me it s when he was a stark prisoner and he killed this nice guy that was sort of a cousin. For me the most cruel act from Jaimie.

Hell, it was war. It was Jamie's duty to escape. Killing his own guy to do it is pretty messed up, I agree. War does stuff to people. But I don't think Jamie would have ever done such a thing had the situation not been desperate.

Besides, that whole scene was something Jamie never did in the books. It was added by the show. Jamie never murdered his cousin to try and escape. In the book Jamie was released along with his cousin, in the custody of Brienne with the purpose of ransom for the Stark girls.

In the last episodes or so, Jamie is checking out the the White Book (book describing the exploits of every Kings Guardsmen) and Jamie has nothing written for him. Jamie as the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, is as his duty to write the entries in the book. A job he's neglected for a while.

Jamie will write something about himself in the book in the coming episodes. If you wish to know about what he will write, then click the spoiler.

Spoiler

Defeated in the Whispering Wood by the Young Wolf Robb Stark during the War of the Five Kings. Held captive at Riverrun and ransomed for a promise unfulfilled. Captured again by the Brave Companions, and maimed at the word of Vargo Hoat their captain, losing his sword hand to the blade of Zollo the Fat. Returned safely to King's Landing by Brienne, the Maid of Tarth.

Some of that might not make sense to you betiko, as the show has changed certain events that happened in the books. But Jamie is very modest, and honest about what he writes in the White Book about himself. Maybe in the show he will show remorse for what he did to his cousin.

In the book, Jamie's cousin was (book spoiler, not show spoiler)

Spoiler

was killed indirectly by bandits and "mourned by none" as Jamie's cousin wasn't all that nice of a person anyway. He is described as somewhat cowardly and not very smart. Hahaha! Even his parents didn't care that he was dead. Dragged to death by his own horse.

Concerning the incest with his sister, I think she is the one to blame and the one that brought him into this. After all, she seems to have a psychological problem, using other cousins ac toy boys and always wanting to keep this only in the family. I wouldn t be surprised if the reason behind all this is that tywinn raped her as a child and she became fucked up.

I don't think Tywin ever raped Cersi, but who knows. Maybe. You also have to take into account that the Targaryens would regularly have sibling marry and Cersi and Jamie both had some pretty heavy hero worship of specific Targaryens.

Not to mention that Jamie once told Brienne that "we can't help who we fall in love with".

But Jamie is starting to see clearer now, isn't he? Jamie is not the arrogant punk bitch that he was at the beginning of the TV series. He still loves and desires Cersi though, but considering the last couple of episodes, that ship just might be pulling out of port.....

And Cersi is one crazy bird, that's for sure. She's off her rocker! She has a serious case of penis envy as well as several other psychological issues.

Damn, you remember everything don't you?

Haha, hell no, I get all mixed up plenty. Strikewolf is the one who remembers everything. I get characters confused with each other, miss a few details about specific events, but I remember the Jamie evolution. He's one of the most interesting characters to me.

Now that you say it I remember the wildfire staches but I wouldn't have remembered it unless reminded, and then there were other stuff like their conversation that I now remember but didn't before. I take it you've read them more than once?

I've got them on my Nook. Which makes it easy to find stuff. Yeah I've read them more than once. When I have nothing left to read at certain moments I go and read some GoT. And I certainly look forward to the series every Sunday.

HBO has veered from some of the story lines pretty far (especially Theon) and I don't mind that one bit. It doesn't make it worse IMO, just different. And it's good to be surprised. But I enjoy actually seeing a lot of the scenes from the book in the TV series.

Also, though it may sound weird, but Game of Thrones is basically a Soap Opera. And I hate Soap Operas. But none the less I like GoT.

Bran will always be the worst.

Yeah, that was the worst thing Jamie ever did, IMO. But I suspect that Jamie was only fulfilling what was destined by certain Powers that Be of a more supernatural order in regards to Bran. Maybe if Bran had never been crippled he may have never discovered his warg power. Because he'd be too busy doing other stuff. And as annoying or slow as Bran's storyline may be, I believe he is probably a key player in what comes and that whatever it is that's coming from the far north can't be defeated without him and his powers.

I guess we'll see. But Jamie may have actually saved the whole world by pushing little Bran out that window. Time will tell.

[strike wolf]

I was actually a bit disappointed with the finale scene. It seemed so much more dramatic in the book but maybe that's just because this is the second time I've seen it. Can't wait for Oberyn vs. The Mountain. That will be great.

This is where Littlefinger is a little unstable. He has major issues in regards to Sansa and Catelyn. He's infatuated with Catelyn but he's now trying to substitute her with Sansa. The problem is that he sees Sansa as three contradictory aspects. 1. A lover. 2. His daughter. 3. A chess piece to use in his games. This is one of the things that I think will come back to bite him in the neck later on.

I am a bit worried about the Brienne story line. They seem to be bastardizing it a bit much which is surprising since most GoT storylines have stayed mostly true to the books even with additions/subtractions. For one thing, in the books, Biter (the guy who bit the Hound) and Rorge were killed in a fight with Brienne and a few others. It does bug me more in that Brienne's story line was pretty much my favorite one from A Feast For Crows.

All that said, I still really enjoyed the episode.

[patches70]

I was actually a bit disappointed with the finale scene. It seemed so much more dramatic in the book but maybe that's just because this is the second time I've seen it.

They changed what he said in the series from the book, his last words to Lysa before he shoved her out the moondoor. It was more dramatic in the book, IMO. But it was still pretty cool.

I can't wait until beitko comes back to the thread and see what his reaction to Littlefinger is now. Hahaha!

Can't wait for Oberyn vs. The Mountain. That will be great.

Oh hell yeah. That is one of the scenes I have waited so patiently for. Oberyn is a badass. And waiting for beitko's reaction to Oberyn being Tyrion's champion. When opining about Tyrion's champion no one ever thought to think of Oberyn (excluding anyone who read the books of course).

Now, for those who haven't read the books and don't know what's coming, taking bets now on the Oberyn vs The Mountain duel! Pick your pony and we'll let the chips fall next week!

I'll decline on naming my horse in that race, but I certainly know who I'll be cheering for.

And as a side note, reactions about the new actor playing The Mountain?
What's this? Like the third actor that's played The Mountain so far?
This new guy is a strongman competitor. Won Iceland's "strongest man" contest in 2011. And he makes his acting debut on GoT. Good on him! He's got a hell of an episode coming up.....

All that said, I still really enjoyed the episode.

Yeah it was. I laughed a bit when The Hound asked Arya- "Is he on your little list?" and she's- "Can't be, I don't know his name."
The Hound, "What's your name?" LOL, Don't answer that question Rorge! Bwahahahahahaha!

I'm a liking The Hound. I've like him the whole show actually. Liked him in the books as well.

I wonder what was running through Lysa's mind as she was plummeting to her death? I know what finally went through her brain, though. A boulder!
Hahaha,
now, what to do about Sweetrobin? What to do, what to do......hmmm.....

[Army of GOD]

Oh hell yeah. That is one of the scenes I have waited so patiently for. Oberyn is a badass. And waiting for beitko's reaction to Oberyn being Tyrion's champion. When opining about Tyrion's champion no one ever thought to think of Oberyn (excluding anyone who read the books of course).

I was thinking either Bronn or Jaime the entire time but once I remembered that Oberyn wanted to kill the Mountain I was like "oh shit, it makes so much sense now". I have to say that I've enjoyed the addition of his character. Actor plays him well. Obviously Cersei and Tywin are going to shit their pants when they find out but Oberyn wants pretty much all the Lannisters dead so it doesn't really matter. I wonder if the Martells are going to ally with Stannis eventually.


Littlefinger pushing Lysa down was pretty predictable once Lysa invited Sansa over to it so I was slightly disappointed. I knew Sansa was completely safe because she's too important of a character to die mid-season like that (not to mention that her character became a lot more important with Robb and Catelyn dying) and then once Littlefinger appeared in the scene I knew without a doubt what was going to happen. Extremely satisfying though. This confuses things though...because aren't the Knights of the Vale going to be like "uhh, you just killed our Lady" or some shit?

[patches70]

This confuses things though...because aren't the Knights of the Vale going to be like "uhh, you just killed our Lady" or some shit?

Haha, yeah, as Ricky Ricardo would put it- "Littlefinger got some s'plainin' to do".

Hehe, I'm sure he's up to the task....

[strike wolf]

Littlefinger pushing Lysa down was pretty predictable once Lysa invited Sansa over to it so I was slightly disappointed. I knew Sansa was completely safe because she's too important of a character to die mid-season like that (not to mention that her character became a lot more important with Robb and Catelyn dying) and then once Littlefinger appeared in the scene I knew without a doubt what was going to happen. Extremely satisfying though. This confuses things though...because aren't the Knights of the Vale going to be like "uhh, you just killed our Lady" or some shit?

"Too important of a character"....wait wait. We are talking about Game of Thrones right?

[strike wolf]

I was actually a bit disappointed with the finale scene. It seemed so much more dramatic in the book but maybe that's just because this is the second time I've seen it.

They changed what he said in the series from the book, his last words to Lysa before he shoved her out the moondoor. It was more dramatic in the book, IMO. But it was still pretty cool.

Ah true. Doesn't he say something like "It isn't true...I never loved you. *throw*"

[betiko]

hehe, great episode!
No, I didn't see oberyn comming, neither the mountain! which is pretty stupid, given that the mountain has been out of the show pretty much... the entire show, we've barely seen him, we mostly hear people talk about him all the time. And ok, I'm not crazy, this wasn't at all the actor playing the mountain earlier. Oh my, this actor is absolutely impressive physically, what a beast!
And oberyn... If I had thought of it a little more... in the season preview we saw him fighting like a champ. I love tyrion's reaction when oberyn tells him he will fight for him! Ok, the thing now... is that if oberyn loses this has a great potetial for the martell future storylines.... Some other revenge other martells would try to achieve against the lannisters.. And the mountain would be an even more dramatic character... can't imagine the mountain killed by any other than the hound... hummm... the more I think of it, even if oberyn is a great warrior, I think his defeat and/or death would probably serve better the story, and really hope not!

And Petyr Baelish, you are my hero! I was really thinking that Lysa was too much of a anoying character... I was really praying for sansa to push her so we woudn't need to deal with her anymore in the show. And there goes Petyr!!!!!! awesome!!!
So I guess robin is the new lord? or is Baelish kind of the regent given that robin is too young? What is he going to say... that she suicided....? probably that sansa pushed her, and he will find a way to make her escape?
This is pretty intriguing. Cool episode.


oh, and daenerys fucking daario with jorah figuring out..... lol!!! "you're still my most trusted councelor jorah, but you're still not stuffin that puss!"