Game of Thrones (series spoiling only!)

[strike wolf]

Spoiler

But who is going to play Lady Stoneheart?

[Gillipig]

Spoiler

But who is going to play Lady Stoneheart?

Spoiler

Lol, that whole story almost forced me to put down the book and never read it again, I still think it doesn't belong in the books and is completly out of character. Why did she become some sort of freak? Convenient for the writer perhaps but it makes no sense objectively and I don't know how the series followers will react. My guess is it will take a lot of people "out of it", out of the realistic feeling that has so far maintained even though there are white walkers and dragons set loose in the world. But a zombie Catelyn Stark is just too ridicoulus, how can anyone possible justifye that?

[strike wolf]

Spoiler

But who is going to play Lady Stoneheart?

Spoiler

Lol, that whole story almost forced me to put down the book and never read it again, I still think it doesn't belong in the books and is completly out of character. Why did she become some sort of freak? Convenient for the writer perhaps but it makes no sense objectively and I don't know how the series followers will react. My guess is it will take a lot of people "out of it", out of the realistic feeling that has so far maintained even though there are white walkers and dragons set loose in the world. But a zombie Catelyn Stark is just too ridicoulus, how can anyone possible justifye that?

Spoiler

The elements are already in the story. I am still waiting to see how it will turn out really. As far as why, she died watching her son and several of her allies being slaughtered in betrayal and when the brought her back, they said it had been "too long" as in the organs, brain included, had deteriorated to some extent or another so her coming back super vengeful and messed up at least made some sense.

[Gillipig]

Spoiler

But who is going to play Lady Stoneheart?

Spoiler

Lol, that whole story almost forced me to put down the book and never read it again, I still think it doesn't belong in the books and is completly out of character. Why did she become some sort of freak? Convenient for the writer perhaps but it makes no sense objectively and I don't know how the series followers will react. My guess is it will take a lot of people "out of it", out of the realistic feeling that has so far maintained even though there are white walkers and dragons set loose in the world. But a zombie Catelyn Stark is just too ridicoulus, how can anyone possible justifye that?

Spoiler

The elements are already in the story. I am still waiting to see how it will turn out really. As far as why, she died watching her son and several of her allies being slaughtered in betrayal and when the brought her back, they said it had been "too long" as in the organs, brain included, had deteriorated to some extent or another so her coming back super vengeful and messed up at least made some sense.

Spoiler

Sorry but no, sense is something it doesn't make, lol. Maybe Martin needed this to happen to get where he wanted to in the book and couldn't find any other way of getting there? That's the only excuse I can come up with, But it's a horrible idea, there's nothing worse than taking someone out of the feeling of the book and this subplot did just that to me. If I am to guess I think a lot of people will laugh their ass off when she appears. There's no way they can make a zombie Catelyn Stark a serious matter. People will think it's ridicoulus.

[strike wolf]

Spoiler

Sounds like a personal problem. I am still interested in what they will do with it regarding Jaime & Brienne.

[patches70]

Spoiler

But who is going to play Lady Stoneheart?

Spoiler

Lol, that whole story almost forced me to put down the book and never read it again, I still think it doesn't belong in the books and is completly out of character. Why did she become some sort of freak? Convenient for the writer perhaps but it makes no sense objectively and I don't know how the series followers will react. My guess is it will take a lot of people "out of it", out of the realistic feeling that has so far maintained even though there are white walkers and dragons set loose in the world. But a zombie Catelyn Stark is just too ridicoulus, how can anyone possible justifye that?

Spoiler

The elements are already in the story. I am still waiting to see how it will turn out really. As far as why, she died watching her son and several of her allies being slaughtered in betrayal and when the brought her back, they said it had been "too long" as in the organs, brain included, had deteriorated to some extent or another so her coming back super vengeful and messed up at least made some sense.

Spoiler

Sorry but no, sense is something it doesn't make, lol. Maybe Martin needed this to happen to get where he wanted to in the book and couldn't find any other way of getting there? That's the only excuse I can come up with, But it's a horrible idea, there's nothing worse than taking someone out of the feeling of the book and this subplot did just that to me. If I am to guess I think a lot of people will laugh their ass off when she appears. There's no way they can make a zombie Catelyn Stark a serious matter. People will think it's ridicoulus.

Spoiler

What? A show that has dragons, white walkers, black ghost like monsters that crawl out a chick's pussy to stab Renley through the heart, a guy that can instantly change into a new face right in front of Arya, a guy that nearly gets cut in half by The Hound one instant and the next is up and talking and letting The Hound take Arya and you draw the line at zombies? And Stoneheart isn't even a zombie. The wraiths are zombies, you remember them? The people that White walkers kill get up to kill people. Hahaha, how have you taken this show seriously up to this point, Gillipig?

[patches70]

Spoiler

But who is going to play Lady Stoneheart?

This old bat could play the part-

Spoiler

[Gillipig]

Spoiler

But who is going to play Lady Stoneheart?

Spoiler

Lol, that whole story almost forced me to put down the book and never read it again, I still think it doesn't belong in the books and is completly out of character. Why did she become some sort of freak? Convenient for the writer perhaps but it makes no sense objectively and I don't know how the series followers will react. My guess is it will take a lot of people "out of it", out of the realistic feeling that has so far maintained even though there are white walkers and dragons set loose in the world. But a zombie Catelyn Stark is just too ridicoulus, how can anyone possible justifye that?

Spoiler

The elements are already in the story. I am still waiting to see how it will turn out really. As far as why, she died watching her son and several of her allies being slaughtered in betrayal and when the brought her back, they said it had been "too long" as in the organs, brain included, had deteriorated to some extent or another so her coming back super vengeful and messed up at least made some sense.

Spoiler

Sorry but no, sense is something it doesn't make, lol. Maybe Martin needed this to happen to get where he wanted to in the book and couldn't find any other way of getting there? That's the only excuse I can come up with, But it's a horrible idea, there's nothing worse than taking someone out of the feeling of the book and this subplot did just that to me. If I am to guess I think a lot of people will laugh their ass off when she appears. There's no way they can make a zombie Catelyn Stark a serious matter. People will think it's ridicoulus.

Spoiler

What? A show that has dragons, white walkers, black ghost like monsters that crawl out a chick's pussy to stab Renley through the heart, a guy that can instantly change into a new face right in front of Arya, a guy that nearly gets cut in half by The Hound one instant and the next is up and talking and letting The Hound take Arya and you draw the line at zombies? And Stoneheart isn't even a zombie. The wraiths are zombies, you remember them? The people that White walkers kill get up to kill people. Hahaha, how have you taken this show seriously up to this point, Gillipig?

Spoiler

Haha, you bring up some good points there, I guess I have been selective in my outrage. But's that's how it works, some things you let pass but others you get hang up over. I have a feeling that Catelyn coming back from the dead was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I had probably been getting more and more detached from the books when I read it due to these supernatural factors. I think they all did their part in forcing me to put down the book for a while. Nonetheless it will be interesting to see how the series followers will react when she reappears. I think I'm not going to be the only one for whome that scene ruined the enjoyment.

[patches70]

Spoiler

Haha, you bring up some good points there, I guess I have been selective in my outrage. But's that's how it works, some things you let pass but others you get hang up over. I have a feeling that Catelyn coming back from the dead was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I had probably been getting more and more detached from the books when I read it due to these supernatural factors. I think they all did their part in forcing me to put down the book for a while. Nonetheless it will be interesting to see how the series followers will react when she reappears. I think I'm not going to be the only one for whome that scene ruined the enjoyment.

Spoiler

Aww, it's all good Gillipig. I'm a just poking you a bit is all. It's all personal preference really, I enjoy the supernatural stuff in the story. It's like mankind battling each other for triffles while they ignore or don't pay attention to the really spectacular things in the universe that makes all of mankind's spats seem trivial in comparison. Or something like that.
A world without wonder is a bland world indeed. IMO. Cheers!

[patches70]

In honor of the new casting leaks, for those of you who have never read the books here is some Lore of Westeros that you won't hear anywhere else.


The Ghost of High Heart.

I can tell you TV viewers about the Ghost of High Heart because she is being ignored completely by the TV series.

She is an old woman who lives on the top of High Heart in the Riverlands. High Heart is a very tall hill in the Riverlands and on it's crown is a circle of 31 Weirwood stumps. It is said that the ghosts of the Children of the Forest who were killed by the Andal King Erreg haunt this hill.

The old woman is described as having very pale skin and her eyes glow red. She walks with the help of an old gnarled cane and Arya says the old woman is about three feet tall, thinks of her as a dwarf woman.

The Ghost of High Heart has the gift of prophecy and Barristan Selmy tells a story to Daenerys about the old woman, who he calls "the wood witch". Selmy reveals that it was the wood witch who told King Jaehaerys II Targaryen, (Daenerys' Grandfather) that "The Prince who comes" would be born of the Targaryen line. Jaehaerys, after hearing this prophecy, immediately arranged the marriage of Daenerys' parent ( Aerys II and Princess Rhaella). Selmy believes the wood witch died at the Tragedy of Summerhall.
Others say that the old woman is one of the last of the Children of the Forest still alive.

Some say the old woman gets her prophecies because the weirwood stumps whisper in her ear when she sleeps.

But The Ghost of High Heart gave several prophecies. I will not reveal the meaning of the prophecies, I leave it to you to ponder.

One prophecy went exactly like this-

The old gods stir and will not let me sleep. I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more.

Another one went like this-

I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief. I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow.

I can say this, she is describing numerous events in each prophecy.

And there is one more thing she as said, something the book readers themselves have probably forgotten. I can tell you this because The Ghost of High Heart will likely never appear in the TV show.

Arya Stark met the Ghost of High Heart once, much to the old woman's displeasure. The Ghost said these exact words to her-

I see you. I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death ... You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!

And so is the story of The Ghost of High Heart. Both from legend and from actual interactions by characters in the series.


And one more quick one, in honor of Obara Sand anticipated unveiling in Season 5.

Obara's Choice.

Obara was born a bastard. Her father, Oberyn Martell, her mother, an Old Town whore. When Oberyn came to claim the girl, her mother refuse to give her up. In anger, Oberyn threw his spear at the whore's feet and then slapped her. Oberyn then said to the little girl, his daughter, "Which weapon will you choose? The spear, or the tears?"
Obara looked at the spear, looked at her mother's tears on the floor and she choose the spear. And thus Oberyn took his daughter to live at Sunspear while Obara's mother drank herself to death within a year.

This happened about 24 years before the Red Wedding and Jeoffry's murder at his own wedding.

Here is some fan art of that even, called "Obara chooses the spear"

[strike wolf]

Just rewatched the Red Wedding, Joffrey's reaction to finding out, immediately followed by Joffrey's death. It made his death SO much sweeter.

Spoiler

Yeah. We all have those moments that take us out of something in certain stories. Lady Stoneheart was Gillipig's. There are actually two that are bothering me in ASoIaF. The first is the possible Citadel conspiracy. Unless it turns out to be great I am going to start talking about how George R. R. Martin went from a super complex plot that works to trying to do TOO DAMN MUCH! The second one that is bothering me even more is the "Aegon Targaryen" cover up. I put him in question marks because I refuse to fully acknowledge that he could be Aegon Targaryen. It's a trick! I insist it is a trick. Or that he dies quickly. The reason being is I don't want another wannabe Daenerys in the story. I like the possibility of Jon Snow because even if he is a Targaryen, I will always think of him as a Stark. I just don't want another Targaryen Targaryen. I am already starting to tire of Daenerys.

[patches70]

Just rewatched the Red Wedding, Joffrey's reaction to finding out, immediately followed by Joffrey's death. It made his death SO much sweeter.

Spoiler

Yeah. We all have those moments that take us out of something in certain stories. Lady Stoneheart was Gillipig's. There are actually two that are bothering me in ASoIaF. The first is the possible Citadel conspiracy. Unless it turns out to be great I am going to start talking about how George R. R. Martin went from a super complex plot that works to trying to do TOO DAMN MUCH!

Spoiler

Sarella Sand, she's in Oldtown right now, infiltrating the Citadel. We don't know why, her father says it's a "game" to her. The faceless man that Arya met is also in the Citadel isn't he? What's he doing there? Something is going on and I guess we'll find out in the next book a little more.

[Gillipig]

Just rewatched the Red Wedding, Joffrey's reaction to finding out, immediately followed by Joffrey's death. It made his death SO much sweeter.

Spoiler

Yeah. We all have those moments that take us out of something in certain stories. Lady Stoneheart was Gillipig's. There are actually two that are bothering me in ASoIaF. The first is the possible Citadel conspiracy. Unless it turns out to be great I am going to start talking about how George R. R. Martin went from a super complex plot that works to trying to do TOO DAMN MUCH! The second one that is bothering me even more is the "Aegon Targaryen" cover up. I put him in question marks because I refuse to fully acknowledge that he could be Aegon Targaryen. It's a trick! I insist it is a trick. Or that he dies quickly. The reason being is I don't want another wannabe Daenerys in the story. I like the possibility of Jon Snow because even if he is a Targaryen, I will always think of him as a Stark. I just don't want another Targaryen Targaryen. I am already starting to tire of Daenerys.

Spoiler

I don't remember the citadel plot story that well, it was his daughter and sisters who plotted going out to war even though he had forbidden them right? What I can remember of it didn't annoy me. I also have no problem believing Aegon Targaryen is Aegon Targaryen . It is a little hard to imagine the rest of the lords in the realm would "forget" that he was a Targaryen however. Especially someone like Tywin Lannister who's been around for a long time and has always been the knowledgeable type. Surely he would've known. It never bothered me however. I was a little sad when he died actually. (he did die didn't he?)

[patches70]

In honor of the next episode of GoT, the fight between Oberyn Martell and The Mountain, here is some Lore about Oberyn.

Oberyn Martell was born in 258AC, which makes him about 42 years old at the time of Jeoffry's death. He is a man filled with lust, has a quick wit and a barbed tongue, as he's described and acts. He also has great respect and love for family.

When Oberyn was a child he and his sister, Elia, went to Casterly Rock. Lord Martell intended to work out the arranged marriage between his children and Tywin's children, Jamie and Cersi. However, along the way Tyrion was born and his Joanna Lannister died during the birth. Tywin was not receptive of Lord Martell's offer, but Tywin offered Tyrion instead. The Martell's refused and were offended.

When Oberyn was 16, he was caught in bed with Lord Edgar Yronwood's lover. Yronwood, so enraged, challenged Oberyn to a duel to first blood. Both Yronwood and Oberyn took cuts in the duel, and while Oberyn's wounds healed, Yronwood's would not. The Lord's wounds festered and he died. It was rumored that Oberyn used a poisoned blade and ever since that duel Oberyn has been called by his other name, The Red Viper.

To keep any more conflict with House Yronwood from happening, the Martell's sent Quentyn Martell to House Yronwood as a ward. Oberyn was exiled for a time.

Oberyn used his exile as a chance to travel the world. First to Oldtown where he studied at the Citadel and actually earned six links of a maester's chain. Soon, Oberyn got bored with studies and then went to Lys and then traveled through the Free Cities. He learned more about poisons and is rumored to have learned even some dark magic.
Oberyn even joined the Second Sons and formed his own company of mercenaries before finally returning to Dorne, richer by far for all his experiences had had while exiled.

Oberyn has bastard children all over Dorne, and unlike many other nobles of Westeros, he takes care of his bastard children. All of his children are girls and are called the Sand Snakes by people of Westeros. His bastard children grow up wanting for nothing. Oberyn teaches them how to defend themselves, helps raise them and allows them great independence.

The hard feelings between the Tyrell's and the Martell's stem from a tournament when during a joust Oberyn crippled Willas Tyrell. Though Willas himself holds no grudge against Oberyn for what happened, the rest of the Tyrell clan is still angry about it.


Oberyn was always very close to his sister, Elia, and he was happy for her when she was married to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. That love turned to anguish though when during Robert's rebellion, Tywin Lannister ordered Armory Lorch and The Mountain, Gregor Clegane, to scale Red Keep and kill the Targaryen children. Lorch pulled Elia's daughter from under the bed and stabbed her to death fifty times. Gregor picked up Elia's son by his feet and smashed the young boy's skull against the wall. Still covered in the young boy's brains and blood, The Mountain then raped and murdered Elia.


Oberyn is quick, deadly, intelligent. A gifted fighter, driven by revenge for the murder of his sister and her children.
Will he prevail? Will he kill The Mountain and thus save Tyrion?

We'll find out in the next episode of GoT.

[Gillipig]

Has anyone who only watches the tv series just been too curious and peaked on one of our spoiler discussions? If so what did you find out and what did you think about it? You should write the spoiling part with spoiler tags of course.

[betiko]

Has anyone who only watches the tv series just been too curious and peaked on one of our spoiler discussions? If so what did you find out and what did you think about it? You should write the spoiling part with spoiler tags of course.

Spoiler

i m a big idiot, read what you said about catlyn coming back as a zombie. Also, last episode i trolled one of my irl friends that has read all the books telling him that lysa dies in that episode. He got mad and spoiled me a few things, even if i didn t listen i kind of understood that tyrion would kill soon tywinn and shae as he sees them both have sex together. I think it s true, but he could ve told me some bs as well.

[Gillipig]

Has anyone who only watches the tv series just been too curious and peaked on one of our spoiler discussions? If so what did you find out and what did you think about it? You should write the spoiling part with spoiler tags of course.

Spoiler

i m a big idiot, read what you said about catlyn coming back as a zombie. Also, last episode i trolled one of my irl friends that has read all the books telling him that lysa dies in that episode. He got mad and spoiled me a few things, even if i didn t listen i kind of understood that tyrion would kill soon tywinn and shae as he sees them both have sex together. I think it s true, but he could ve told me some bs as well.

Spoiler

Yikes, that thing about Catelyn was a pretty major spoiler, I won't comment on the validity of what your pal said of course, in general it's not a good idea to mess with the book readers though, lol. My brother hasn't read the books and is terrified I'll spoil something, but so far I haevn't. I asked this question because I knew from myself that if I hadn't read the books I probably wouldn't be able to restrain myself from peaking a little bit, so I figured someone else might have the same mental flaw, lol.

[denominator]

Has anyone who only watches the tv series just been too curious and peaked on one of our spoiler discussions? If so what did you find out and what did you think about it? You should write the spoiling part with spoiler tags of course.

I am in a bit of a precarious position in that I have read approximately 70% of the books to this point, so most of the spoilers we're dealing with are ones I am already aware of, like

Spoiler

zombie Catelyn existing, although where I am in the books, it is only revealed that she exists, and not anything that has been done with that storyline (the epilogue of book 3)

, but there have been a few things that have been spoiled for me, like

Spoiler

Arya and Jon being wargs (I will claim that I suspected as much)

and I knew that Littlefinger was going to kill Lysa before I read that part of the book, or saw the show. Mostly though, the major plot points that I expect to be revealed in the coming episodes were new to me when I read them.

More than any other series (book, TV, or movie), I have found fans of Game of Thrones and especially Song of Ice and Fire fans to be GREAT at avoiding spoilers. I think it's because the series as a whole is very well written and we all enjoy getting caught up in the story and it's unexpected turns, that we want others to be able to go on the same emotional ride. Plus, there is an air of pretension around knowing things that the others don't.

[betiko]

I agree about your last paragraph. I've been spoiled a few things, often by the same friend though. When we start bitching about something he threats me to spoil me some AGOT, and i don t always let him get away with it lol

[strike wolf]

Spoiler

Arya and Jon being wargs (I will claim that I suspected as much)

and I knew that Littlefinger was going to kill Lysa before I read that part of the book, or saw the show. Mostly though, the major plot points that I expect to be revealed in the coming episodes were new to me when I read them.

More than any other series (book, TV, or movie), I have found fans of Game of Thrones and especially Song of Ice and Fire fans to be GREAT at avoiding spoilers. I think it's because the series as a whole is very well written and we all enjoy getting caught up in the story and it's unexpected turns, that we want others to be able to go on the same emotional ride. Plus, there is an air of pretension around knowing things that the others don't.

In regards to what has been spoiled for you:

Spoiler

Arya's whole warg thing may have come later in the books. I can't remember when they introduced it really but if you have read past book 2 than you should have seen evidence of Jon's ability.

As to the last paragraph, I mostly agree. There's a subset i have seen which seems to thrive on giving out spoilers to the show but most seem to enjoy seeing people react to finding out themselves.

[patches70]

[Gillipig]

The mountain looks like he could be a gay favourite, gays like big bears I've heard.

[betiko]

The mountain looks like he could be a gay favourite, gays like big bears I've heard.

That would be deceiving, the odds on oberyn are better for any gay man.

[strike wolf]

Well it bugged me a little that they wasted 5 minutes of the episode talking about beetles. At least I think that conversation could have been a little bit shorter but otherwise. It is episodes like this one that are the reason I watch Game of Thrones. So Arya has actually reached the Vale? That's not even close to canon. Ya see. This is why I say vengeance is bad in Game of Thrones. Oberyn you awesome fool.

Alright, I want to explain something about Moat Cailyn since it did not get attention in the show. Moat Cailyn after being taken over by the Ironborn was originally under the direct control of Theon's sister Yara (Asha in the books) but she left it for reasons that have been strangely omitted in the show so far. Anyways, that left it to lesser ranks in charge. However, Moat Cailyn sits on the swamp in the middle of the territory held by the Crannogmen (The Reeds like Jojen and Meera). The Crannogmen, with the exception of Howland Reed, don't really fight in open confrontations like most people. They are small in stature and prefer to use the advantage given to them by their swamp. So instead, they fight with spears and nets and poisoned arrows. Over the last few months leading up to this point, the Crannogmen had been harassing the Ironborn every time they stepped foot outside those castle walls. They basically cut off supplies for the Ironborn so that the ones who didn't die from poisoning died from starvation and lack of fresh water. Originally there had been over 100 men left to guard Moat Cailyn from being retaken by Northerners but by the time Theon arrived, there were less than 20 of them left and most of them were either poisoned, sickly or starved near to death.

I have to say my only big complaint about this season is how slowly they are going with the Wall story line. Jon had the speed advantage and the wildlings didn't go directly to Castle Black but it shouldn't have taken them this long.

[Army of GOD]

I love Oberyn but holy shit that was an awesome death.

Definitely going to see a Hound/Mountain showdown.



Also, I bet people are like "why didn't Oberyn just kill him?" but what he did was completely true to character. Also, Oberyn will get his wish as the Hound is gonna kill the Mountain after he confessed...