Football (real)

[tzor]

yeah i'm talking about the team that had Pelé and Beckenbauer that was totally dominating the US league in the 70s. looks like you lack a bit of football culture tzor....

I'm sorry, but when one talks about Football in the PRESENT tense I don't think of football in the PAST tense. Especially when you were using terms from the new team to describe the old. The New York Cosmos was a member of the North American Soccer League. Once Pelé left the league in 1977 (alas I was only a sophomore in high school) the league and the team went downhill quickly. The league folded in 1984. The team folded in 1985 after a year trying its luck in the most horrid of games "Indoor Soccer." It's gone. It's history.

Yes there are a lot of great sports with great leagues that tried and ... well died. People still look at them fondly. But can't compare the dead parrot to the ones that are currently living.

By the way, the reason why it tried and died may be related to the following quote, "Many of these new owners were not soccer savvy, and once the perceived popularity started to decline, they got out as quickly as they got in. Over-expansion without sufficient vetting of ownership groups was a huge factor in the death of the league."

Frankly, I didn't really care much. By the time I got into High School, they already had moved to New Jersey. Unlike the other sports, they weren't generally on Broadcast TV at the time and I really didn't care at the time. (There is some indication that the predecessor to the league had a contract with CBS that treated it like American Football with TV Commercial Time Outs back in the 60's when I was generally only interested in Batman in living color on NBC.)


Adding Context:

it's pretty dumb that the only NY franchise with some kind of history, the cosmos, is in second division with no possibility of becoming bigger through good results... while NY is currently represented by an energy drink and a manchester city subsidiary that will always be considered as a minor interest by their investors.

The New York Cosmos, in the second division, has noting to do with the New York Cosmos from the NASL. Taking a name doesn't guarantee you that former team's grandeur. You have to EARN IT.

[JBlombier]

Does anyone care for the Champions League played this week?
Nah, neither do I. I'll wait for the quarter finals and semis, which should be a lot more interesting than this week's games.

Just for the fun of it, I'll throw in my prediction for the Quarter finalists.
Chelsea, Bayern, Real, Basel, Barcelona, Juventus, Arsenal, Atletico.

I'd like Man City, Dortmund and PSG to advance, but I doubt it.
And yeah, Basel rules. I wish them the best of luck. More than any of these clubs mentioned.

[nietzsche]

No, Porto will crush Basel.

And PSG will advance.

[waauw]

No, Porto will crush Basel.

And PSG will advance.

PSG advance? when they have to play in stamford bridge? I don't think so.
Mourinho will do what he does best, play extremely defensive, counter and aim for that 0-0 or at max that 1-0.
It'll be a shit-game with almost no chances and mourinho attaining his objective, as so often.

[nietzsche]

No, Porto will crush Basel.

And PSG will advance.

PSG advance? when they have to play in stamford bridge? I don't think so.
Mourinho will do what he does best, play extremely defensive, counter and aim for that 0-0 or at max that 1-0.
It'll be a shit-game with almost no chances and mourinho attaining his objective, as so often.

No, they will throw passes to the box at around 3.5 meters high and Ibra will jump and kick the ball in 3 times.

[waauw]

Courtois is taller than ibra and can use his hands. I think Chelsea has the advantage in such situations.

[nietzsche]

Courtois is taller than ibra and can use his hands. I think Chelsea has the advantage in such situations.

well if he tries he'll get a kick on the head.

[waauw]

yeah real skillful, looks more like an elevated breakdancer

Click image to enlarge.

[nietzsche]

More like

[nietzsche]

this was last saturday

[betiko]

Does anyone care for the Champions League played this week?
Nah, neither do I. I'll wait for the quarter finals and semis, which should be a lot more interesting than this week's games.

Just for the fun of it, I'll throw in my prediction for the Quarter finalists.
Chelsea, Bayern, Real, Basel, Barcelona, Juventus, Arsenal, Atletico.

I'd like Man City, Dortmund and PSG to advance, but I doubt it.
And yeah, Basel rules. I wish them the best of luck. More than any of these clubs mentioned.

Of course i give a shit! But to be frank, i m only interested in watching psg-chelsea, arsenal-monaco, and barcelona-city.
All the other games have a clear winner at this stage before even playing.. But these 3 confrontations are as interesting as it can get for me.
I think monaco can surprise arsenal... Arsenal does many defensive mistakes, while it s close to impossible to score a goal against monaco. But they are super boring to watch.

[betiko]

yeah i'm talking about the team that had Pelé and Beckenbauer that was totally dominating the US league in the 70s. looks like you lack a bit of football culture tzor....

I'm sorry, but when one talks about Football in the PRESENT tense I don't think of football in the PAST tense. Especially when you were using terms from the new team to describe the old. The New York Cosmos was a member of the North American Soccer League. Once Pelé left the league in 1977 (alas I was only a sophomore in high school) the league and the team went downhill quickly. The league folded in 1984. The team folded in 1985 after a year trying its luck in the most horrid of games "Indoor Soccer." It's gone. It's history.

Yes there are a lot of great sports with great leagues that tried and ... well died. People still look at them fondly. But can't compare the dead parrot to the ones that are currently living.

By the way, the reason why it tried and died may be related to the following quote, "Many of these new owners were not soccer savvy, and once the perceived popularity started to decline, they got out as quickly as they got in. Over-expansion without sufficient vetting of ownership groups was a huge factor in the death of the league."

Frankly, I didn't really care much. By the time I got into High School, they already had moved to New Jersey. Unlike the other sports, they weren't generally on Broadcast TV at the time and I really didn't care at the time. (There is some indication that the predecessor to the league had a contract with CBS that treated it like American Football with TV Commercial Time Outs back in the 60's when I was generally only interested in Batman in living color on NBC.)


Adding Context:

it's pretty dumb that the only NY franchise with some kind of history, the cosmos, is in second division with no possibility of becoming bigger through good results... while NY is currently represented by an energy drink and a manchester city subsidiary that will always be considered as a minor interest by their investors.

The New York Cosmos, in the second division, has noting to do with the New York Cosmos from the NASL. Taking a name doesn't guarantee you that former team's grandeur. You have to EARN IT.

The way sports team work in the US lacks of soul anyways. You got an owner that can decide from one day to the next to change city, the name of the team and its colours.
So yes, if you re gonna have 2 clubs in NYC, it s plain dumb to have club energy drink and club man city subsidiary that lends its best player to the mother ship just in case he has a bit of football left.
If you don t think a name such as the cosmos means anything.... Freaking GOD Pelé played there, the only club other than Santos he s ever played for. And he had the Kaiser Frantz playing there with him... Not to mention all the league titles.
Oh well, if you re happy with club energy drink number 5 (there is a red bull club in germany, one in austria, one in brazil, one in ghana) and with man city's bitch sex slave, rather than having a club that means something worldwide not involving vodka mixtures...

[betiko]

Ps; just look at the Chivas USA. How stupid is that... If you re a chivas fan, you follow chivas, not chivas USA. Same stupid idea with nycfc. Just get your own identity without being another club s bitch.

[sempaispellcheck]

betiko, I don't mean this personally, but if you can't talk about MLS and its clubs with even the tiniest bit of respect, don't talk about them at all.
It's the only American league that even comes close to competing with the major European leagues, and we do have a decent amount of pride in it.
Thank you.

sempai

[waauw]

Of course i give a shit! But to be frank, i m only interested in watching psg-chelsea, arsenal-monaco, and barcelona-city.
All the other games have a clear winner at this stage before even playing.. But these 3 confrontations are as interesting as it can get for me.
I think monaco can surprise arsenal... Arsenal does many defensive mistakes, while it s close to impossible to score a goal against monaco. But they are super boring to watch.

Considering how terrible Arsenal was during the group stages, I'm almost inclined to say monaco would be favorite in that duel.

[betiko]

betiko, I don't mean this personally, but if you can't talk about MLS and its clubs with even the tiniest bit of respect, don't talk about them at all.
It's the only American league that even comes close to competing with the major European leagues, and we do have a decent amount of pride in it.
Thank you.

sempai

What have i said that is untrue here? Tzor makes fun of the new york cosmos... While he sports nycfc that has suchhhh a huge history!!!! How many seasons was it?
Secondly: lampard might still be good; ok, just lend him for free to manchester city. Same owner, o ly that one is the pride son and the other the little hunchback club.
Thirdly: yes, it sounds fucking ridiculous to sport a team that has an advertising in its name.
The Austria Saltzburg fans should ve started some riots when their club got renamed red bull saltzburg.

If I can t Express true stuff here without without hurting some little feelings i d suggest to grow a thicker skin.
Yes, the concept of chivas USA, nycfc or nyrb is ridiculous. They are all local subsidiaries. Aclubis supposed to have a full identity and not to be another club s bitch.


And the mls coming close to compete with european leagues? Lol.
Yeah just like the real madrid in basketball could compete with an NBA team

[betiko]

Of course i give a shit! But to be frank, i m only interested in watching psg-chelsea, arsenal-monaco, and barcelona-city.
All the other games have a clear winner at this stage before even playing.. But these 3 confrontations are as interesting as it can get for me.
I think monaco can surprise arsenal... Arsenal does many defensive mistakes, while it s close to impossible to score a goal against monaco. But they are super boring to watch.

Considering how terrible Arsenal was during the group stages, I'm almost inclined to say monaco would be favorite in that duel.

Honestly, between chelsea-psg and monaco-arsenal... Monaco has much more chances to beat its londoner rival. Before the confrontations, i would ve given 20% psg and 50% monaco

[nietzsche]

he doesn't stop sempai, show him the black swan

[nietzsche]

Barcelona 0 - 1 Malaga



MUAHAHA!!!

[tzor]

The way sports team work in the US lacks of soul anyways. You got an owner that can decide from one day to the next to change city, the name of the team and its colours.

For the record, this is a North American thing. I can give a number of Canadian examples. But I think you answered your own question. It is because of this that names generally don't mean anything. The Brooklyn Dodgers were a baseball club with a very strong loyal fan base. When they moved to Los Angeles they kept the name but lost New York Fan Base. (Most became loyal Mets fans because they simply wanted to root for any team but the Yankees.)

So the notion of a small soccer franchise deciding to take over the name of a long defunct team and by magic assuming all of the fame, honor and glory of that previous franchise is nonsense. Pelé did not play for and never played for the current team now known as the Cosmos. None of the league titles belong to the team currently known as the Cosmos. If you want a storied history you have to keep the story going, not revive someone's else's storied history as your own. Sports Necromancy is still absolutely and positively wrong.

Oh and by the way, WELCOME TO NEW YORK. The city where we don't give a Bronx cheer if Babe Ruth was a Yankee if the current players aren't winning games and playing good baseball TODAY. (And where did you think the expression Bronx cheer came from? From those years when the Yankees weren't doing all that great - just before Steinbrenner purchased the team.)

[waauw]

The way sports team work in the US lacks of soul anyways. You got an owner that can decide from one day to the next to change city, the name of the team and its colours.

For the record, this is a North American thing. I can give a number of Canadian examples. But I think you answered your own question. It is because of this that names generally don't mean anything. The Brooklyn Dodgers were a baseball club with a very strong loyal fan base. When they moved to Los Angeles they kept the name but lost New York Fan Base. (Most became loyal Mets fans because they simply wanted to root for any team but the Yankees.)

a bit contradictory isn't it? You name them 'loyal fans' whilst simultaneously mentioning they changed clubs.

[tzor]

a bit contradictory isn't it? You name them 'loyal fans' whilst simultaneously mentioning they changed clubs.

If you want a thought experiment, if Man City moved to Edinburgh do you think the "loyal fans" of Man City would continue to support the team? Or Chelsea? Or any other club?

Well then, consider what happens if they were to move to (GASP) Bermuda. The Giants moved so far away from New York that they literally moved several time zones. This was the age of Radio, for the most part (1957).

[betiko]

a bit contradictory isn't it? You name them 'loyal fans' whilst simultaneously mentioning they changed clubs.

If you want a thought experiment, if Man City moved to Edinburgh do you think the "loyal fans" of Man City would continue to support the team? Or Chelsea? Or any other club?

Well then, consider what happens if they were to move to (GASP) Bermuda. The Giants moved so far away from New York that they literally moved several time zones. This was the age of Radio, for the most part (1957).

That simply wouldn t happen here. The only example I know of is Wimbledon's owner who moved the club to milton keynes. Even with wimbledon being a pretty shitty meaningless club that was a national scandal in the UK.
Man city moving elsewhere? Just lol. Expect terrorist attacks and civil war if such thing happens. If such thing happened they would probably start a club from scratch called manchester city fc. That s what wimbledon fc fans did.

Just like cardiff city... They got one of these rich chineese guys as their owner and the guy just thinks that owning means he can actually do what he wants... The players have always played in blue, and their logo had a bluebird. Well chinaman decided to make them play in red and change the blue bird for a red dragon... While the red dragon sticks pretty well to the welsh theme, and given that the national team plays in red you would think it s something the fans could ve accepted. Well no. Fans refuse to wear red and the whole stadium will always wear blue. The owner is greatly hated for the change of colour and for using the dragon.

Regarding your baseball reference... You re talking chinese. Only you guys, japanese and cubans give a shit about baseball.

We need to talk about an american sport I understand: basketball.
Take the charlotte hornets:

A) the owner moves the team to new orleans (new orleans hornets)
B) with hurricaine katrina, they have to move to okc (Okc hornets)
C) jordan creates a new franchise in charlotte given that there is no more team there, the charlotte bobcats
D) with the city of new orleans back on its feet, the hornets are back in cajun land. As a result, the owner of the Seattle supersonics sees the market opportunity in OKC and moves the sonics there... Renaming them okc thunder
E) the owner of the new orleans hornets thinks his team s name has nothing to do with the city, so he decides to rename them Pelicans
F) jordan sees that the hornets name is free so he renames his team the charlotte hornets.

Bottom line: the actual charlotte hornets are the charlotte bobcats, and the real charlotte hornets are the new orleans pelicans. How stupid is that?

These shit shouldn t happen. Finishing last of a league also gives you a first draft pick.. So you re rewarded for finishing last... As a Spurs fan I remember how we did absolutely terrible the season before tim duncan got drafted... Totally on purpose. It was a great move on the long term, but it s dumb.
Also, if you are a D league team, and you finish champion every year what s the point... You are not going to join the nba for it, even if you might be better than some nba teams. The worse nba teams don t get sanctions.. They get a reward.

[tzor]

That simply wouldn t happen here.

Well given the size of England, it can't happen here. As I said you would need to have teams move to Bermuda.

Smaller distances ... on the other hand ...

Coventry City F.C. is an English association football club based in Coventry in the West Midlands. The team competes in League One, the third tier of the English football league system. Nicknamed the Sky Blues owing to the colour of their strip, Coventry City were formed in 1883 as Singers F.C., and they joined the Football League in 1919.

Coventry City began playing at the Highfield Road stadium in 1899 within the Hillfields district of the city, although the club did not buy the freehold to the site until 1937.

In 1981, Highfield Road was converted into England's first ever all-seater stadium with a capacity of around 24,500, which many criticised as killing the atmosphere of the ground.

For the 2005–06 season, Coventry City moved to the new 32,609-capacity Ricoh Arena after 106 years at Highfield Road. In 1998, the club had decided that it was time to relocate to a new stadium in the Rowleys Green area of the city, three-and-a-half miles north of the city centre and close to junction 3 of the M6 motorway.

On 3 May 2013, Coventry City put a contingency plan in place to play elsewhere for the 2013–14 season ...

Rent disputes caused Coventry City to play the 2013–14 season at Sixfields Stadium in Northampton

On 21 August 2014 it was announced an agreement had been reached allowing the club to return to the Ricoh Arena for the next two years with the option of another two years.

So, yes your teams do change both names and locations when such things are necessary.

[waauw]

a bit contradictory isn't it? You name them 'loyal fans' whilst simultaneously mentioning they changed clubs.

If you want a thought experiment, if Man City moved to Edinburgh do you think the "loyal fans" of Man City would continue to support the team? Or Chelsea? Or any other club?

Well then, consider what happens if they were to move to (GASP) Bermuda. The Giants moved so far away from New York that they literally moved several time zones. This was the age of Radio, for the most part (1957).

As Betiko mentioned. Clubs in europe don't do that. It's deeply frowned upon and all club owners in europe know it. European teams and fanclubs are a lot more traditional than american clubs. If a club-owner would decide to move a club to another city far away, without the excuse of force majeure, it would be looked down upon not only by club fans but by fans all over the country.

I wouldn't even be surprised if such actions would lead to hooligan riots.