[Official] HP Mafia - MVP: Aage - Archive

[strike wolf]

I'm in favour of Deg keeping in mind what his opinion is of those giving him advice.

unvote Vote Skill as the one of two with more of a case already on him.

The case is that he is the most inactive. I'm not going to defend him, buts thats a shoddy case to just throw yourself onto.

He's been inactive and when he does post they don't add much.

So, unvote, vote skill

Are we going to keep bandwagoning on everyone until they claim and then start a new one? I think it's likely that mafia were given fake claims.

Apparently we are going to keep going till everyone has claimed, mafia have fakeclaimed, and they can then go through the list cherry picking the most dangerous town roles to nightkill. Its genius.

I believe Pixar and would rather lynch Sniper as if he is Town he is basically useless. I just dont like the way this game is going with pushes for claims on the most tiny of reasons. I'm also unhappy that my case against Mets is apparently not stronger than "he's inactive". Its seems we have enough Mafia who are happy to push for claims against everyone they know to be mafia as there are enough town roles also happily jumping onto any bandwagon going with no case.

The case on Mets as I saw it mostly came down to him 1. Minimalizing the importance of the pixar case/cases in general. Sorry but this is classic Mets and is more of a town tell for him than a scum tell. 2. Strawmanning. This is something that does bug me about Mets. Its also something he tends to do in every game regardless of alignment. So I dont see anything there. 3. His comment about what you did with mitch as being lynchworthy. This is interesting but flimsy by itself. So we ot a town tell for mets, a null tell for mets and something slightly interesting. Yeah. A really convincing case there Wing.

As far as building cases. In a smaller game this woul indeed be a horrible strategy but with 24 (currently 22) players, we need to be more aggressive about seeking out claims just to limit the number of people to look at so scum cant hide as easily.

[HotShot53]

[spoiler]

If there is a possible 2 Night Kills for the scum I might be the reason why there was only one kill last night, Will claim if need be.

Continues with a half ass claim, much like charm did. If you have something to claim that is beneficial to town, do so. This is just confusing now and wastes time to interrogate to get the needed information. Never a town move.

So just a clairification, MTAM cannot be night killed? seems odd to me...

And AGAIN pushing for information on Mtamb... This also NEVER helps town...
Obviously Pixar is not the most inactive in number of posts, but he did nothing but push Mtam this day (fishing for information, not providing an actual case which you could do with Mtamb play on D1).

I also really really dislike Wing defending him:

O
@Pixar - The answer to that question is more beneficial to mafia than town, so lets leave it as an unknown and let them be confused. Also I now believe you to be town because of why you asked the question. I can explain that if anyone wants, but I dont see the benefit.

I can never see why he would be town based on his posts. Never. Obviously I must be missing something, so maybe it's time you can explain it?

I'd only read these two posts when I made that comment, subsequently read the previous ones and understand the case against Pixar now. The way I saw it:

Option A - Mafia trying to find out the truth. They could have just shot Mtam and would have a good idea of the answer....
Option B - Some form of protective role as per the soft claim, and had spent the entire nightphase getting confused as to whether he should use it on Mtam or not, and now quite selfishly wants to know if he should continue to use his ability on Mtam. This is why I want to know who he targetted last night. He didnt answer that question. Even as Town, this still wouldnt be clever play, though many have said he is inexperienced.

@Strike V2.0 - Madmitch is very new, and tends to play a lot of OMGUS votes. I'd defend him, but I havent yet worked out a way to tell if he is scum. My only guess would be if he never shows up on mafia lynches, but thats a long shot even then. Very Very hard to read. Likely to be as unhelpful to mafia as he is to town. I find him amusing though.

[/spoiler]

I did post this prior to his claim. Having read all Pixar's posts since I am not sure he is a confused townie, but it is a possibility.

I'd have to lean towards your Option B as what probably he is... although I have no idea why he then voted mtam again day 2 and questioned why scum didn't kill mtam. It would be nice to hear his explanation so we can see how he thinks for the future, but for practical purposes scum will probably kill him long before a claimed doc gets lynched.

I'm in favour of Deg keeping in mind what his opinion is of those giving him advice.

unvote Vote Skill as the one of two with more of a case already on him.

The case is that he is the most inactive. I'm not going to defend him, buts thats a shoddy case to just throw yourself onto.

He's been inactive and when he does post they don't add much.

So, unvote, vote skill

Are we going to keep bandwagoning on everyone until they claim and then start a new one? I think it's likely that mafia were given fake claims.

Apparently we are going to keep going till everyone has claimed, mafia have fakeclaimed, and they can then go through the list cherry picking the most dangerous town roles to nightkill. Its genius.

I believe Pixar and would rather lynch Sniper as if he is Town he is basically useless. I just dont like the way this game is going with pushes for claims on the most tiny of reasons. I'm also unhappy that my case against Mets is apparently not stronger than "he's inactive". Its seems we have enough Mafia who are happy to push for claims against everyone they know to be mafia as there are enough town roles also happily jumping onto any bandwagon going with no case.

I agree with the case on mets obviously... but sniper hasn't exactly looked the most towny himself either. It's hard to appear towny when you have the fewest posts, and nothing in them that stands out.

Just had this game to the mafia then. Lets see if I can go build a case to save my ass.

Yeah, you're going to have to make a pretty good case to save yourself if your claim is going to be as weak as you apparently think it is. (Of course, since Harry, Ron & Hermione have already claimed, everything will seem weak compared to those lol.) And if you don't get lynched today, the pressure will be good if for nothing else to make you get more active.

FP a few times

[strike wolf]

Thats probably the last I will say on that. Just Wings last post annoyed me.

[StorrZerg]

Metz as town gets annoyed and fights. He is to passive this game imo, more indicative of his mafia play of staying to the side and casting his opinion from afar, stayiaway from getting dirty.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I'm in favour of Deg keeping in mind what his opinion is of those giving him advice.

As far as building cases. In a smaller game this woul indeed be a horrible strategy but with 24 (currently 22) players, we need to be more aggressive about seeking out claims just to limit the number of people to look at so scum cant hide as easily.

In case you were wondering Strike, my first comment was entirely aimed at you. Unfortunately I cant build a case against you until Mets flips scum.

I believe Pixar and would rather lynch Sniper as if he is Town he is basically useless.

There's always Storr - at least we know that he's not town.

Yup - Now look who switched us from the Pixar lynch and carried the momentum into Sniper lynch.

Its seems we have enough Mafia who are happy to push for claims against everyone they know to be mafia as there are enough town roles also happily jumping onto any bandwagon going with no case.

Did you mean mafia pushing for claims against townies? It seems pretty difficult to build a strong case against anyone at this point. I guess my hope is that if we can get lucky and lynch scum by accident, or ID them through night powers, then we may be able to link them to others before they take over.

Currently all the pushes have been against the weaker players who have struggled to defend themselves. Town are seemingly quite happy to follow anyones lead without actually considering who is doing the pushing and how townie they are.

Are we going to keep bandwagoning on everyone until they claim and then start a new one? I think it's likely that mafia were given fake claims.

Do you have a better suggestion? We seem to be very good at targeting major roles (though a couple of them have outed themselves needlessly) We've been going at it for over a week on D2 without getting anything solid on anyone. And when someone does do something very suspicious, people who know them go all meta and say that they're always that way, nothing to see here - move along.

I agree with the latter, but there is always a better suggestion: lynching one of the claims. Do you think all of the claims up to now are legit?

Problem with this is that I bet we wont find the mafia as were being manipulated way too easily. We could let Mtam pick, but even then were going with the theory that the flavour cant be that ridiculous to give Mafia a Harry Potter fake claim. My suggestion is people stop looking at the "what" people have done, and start looking at the "why". Who is doing the manipulating and why. As I have said with Pixar, what he did was scummy, but the why is perfectly plausible for a confused townie. Similar is true for Madmitch dropping hints all over the place, what he did was scummy, but the why is plausible for a newbie.

I'd give my opinion on the why Skills has been inactive, but as I suspect a claim is coming I shall wait till afterwards to see if my theory matches the claim.

[Endgame422]

Im against lynching claimed players at this point.
After each claim ive been waiting for a counterclaim(or at least someone to start pushing the claimed player hard)
This has only happened with pix/mtam,which i dont think is because pix is the real HP trying to out the claim he knows is a lie.
If pix were real HP why claim hermoine? She would be a top scum target anyways.
I am doubting that ron,hermoine,and harry potter are all fakeclaims given out by epitaph and mafia would be crazy to fakeclaim a character that is undoubtedly in play.
Skill says his claim alone will not save him but its been the only saving grace of several players thus far. Even sempai who is not a major role saved himself via his claim.
I would like skills actual claim. Mafia isnt likely to target less active town players with weak roles so if he is a lesser town role its not much harm for scum to know.
Especially when they have much bigger targets tonight.
UNVOTE
Nothing going with MP here so that was a wasted vote.
Skills claim will help me decide if he gets my vote today.
Other thoughts,
Charm being able to vote(in secret) suprises me, im really unsure what to make of that but i guess she gets a pass today because she has to be under some kind of restriction to get a vote in via PM.
Tonka was pushing so so hard D1 and now has totally slowed down and been more of a bystander.
Wing seems town to me. He likes to make a bunch of cases and push flimsy ones to see who jumps in.
I just want to point out that i believe storrs 3rd party claim and thats why he is the one pushing this late day lynch again. We can likely trust him for reads but that is all they are.
And virus wanting to lynch an inactive makes me kinda want to lynch him,as he is accused of being inactive quite alot and should know this is not alignment indicative.
FPd and no time to read last 3/4 posts til tomorrow.

[degaston]

People (read: Storr) still want to wagon on Mets and I don't blame them

Try to keep up - the wagon's on skill now.

how did we manage to get Harry Ron and Hermione on the table on day two.

Harry - Outed himself by claiming a night power right out of the gate.
Ron - Outed himself by sprinkling silly name claim hints in his posts.
Hermione - Drew attention to himself through inactivity and by his useless votes for Harry and Filch on D2.
At least Dumbledore hasn't done anything stupid yet.

I agree with the latter, but there is always a better suggestion: lynching one of the claims. Do you think all of the claims up to now are legit?

I'm most suspicious of Pixar/Hermione right now because of his voting record, but I don't think there's much chance of anything happening to him today with that claim. Wing seems to not want more claims, but we have to run out of top roles eventually.

I would like skills actual claim.

Then why don't you vote for him? We're running out of time, and I don't see much chance of any other claims happening today unless it's right before the deadline when there's no time to discuss it, so I think the sooner skill claims the better.

[Ragian]

I don't know mets' meta, but I feel that he went for the easiest target on a whim. That's scummy in my book.

If charm got her vote in via PM, I don't get what is going on at all. She has posted earlier and how she has voted.

re: skillfu, I don't see why he's any worse than virus, dazza, several others (and perhaps Got today). I still feel that pushing an inactive is a crap shoot. I'd much rather go for what I find scummy. However, if it makes skillfu come up with a case that no one has thought of, then the pressure is honky dory.

FP'ed by Deg

[dazza2008]

Surely Pix needs to at least explain his actions. I am getting used to his weird and crazy play but that was something else. Voting him then protecting him then voting him again. Very strange.

Can you at least explain your thinking pix(if any was involved that is).

[StorrZerg]

What do people think about skills comment regarding his claim won't save him?

[dazza2008]

What do people think about skills comment regarding his claim won't save him?

I reckon he will claim a less powerful role than the ones claimed. Don't know really but what else can it mean? Either that or his fake claim is shite.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

What do people think about skills comment regarding his claim won't save him?

I think I know what it is, and know why it wont save him. Its certainly not a reason not to push a claim.

[skillfusniper33]

What do people think about skills comment regarding his claim won't save him?

I reckon he will claim a less powerful role than the ones claimed. Don't know really but what else can it mean? Either that or his fake claim is shite.

Just analyze it then, I am Dobby the house elf, I have no powers.

To get a new case out there in time Ragian would be insane, especially to evaluate and get everything to work out properly, but I am working on one.

[StorrZerg]

You did not claim everything you could

[skillfusniper33]

You did not claim everything you could

Yes I did, what more do you think you need?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

You havent claimed alignment

[StorrZerg]

Wand or no wand. I also dont believe a vt claim

[degaston]

I can confirm that he has no wand.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I can confirm that he has no wand.

I knew it!

You jumped on this wagon far too easily, this would be why.

[skillfusniper33]

You havent claimed alignment

Sorry I thought everyone knew that Dobby is a complete harry potter supporter.

Wand or no wand. I also dont believe a vt claim

As I said earlier I didn't expect it at all.

Fped by deg.

Thanks, I was hoping you had investigated me last night

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

The real question I would have had here was how the hell did he make it this far without being prodded and replaced when nothing had happened?

Ignoring the fact he referred to himself in the third person, I read this as Third person survivor. This is a claim that cannot save you from a lynch at this late stage in the proceedings.

Not sure what to think of VT

[got tonkaed]

I mean how is it different than Storr. Arguably until someone flips due to a storr case, dobby is as valuable as flich. No reason to lynch him under the logic so far this game.

[skillfusniper33]

The real question I would have had here was how the hell did he make it this far without being prodded and replaced when nothing had happened?

Ignoring the fact he referred to himself in the third person, I read this as Third person survivor. This is a claim that cannot save you from a lynch at this late stage in the proceedings.

Not sure what to think of VT

Multiple Third party seems really odd in a game. And that statement was meant to be as if you guys were asking the question, not me...

[skillfusniper33]

The real question I would have had here was how the hell did he make it this far without being prodded and replaced when nothing had happened?

Ignoring the fact he referred to himself in the third person, I read this as Third person survivor. This is a claim that cannot save you from a lynch at this late stage in the proceedings.

Not sure what to think of VT

Multiple Third party survivors seems really odd in a game. And that statement was meant to be as if you guys were asking the question, not me...

EBWOP

[dazza2008]

I mean how is it different than Storr. Arguably until someone flips due to a storr case, dobby is as valuable as flich. No reason to lynch him under the logic so far this game.

Just by what they claimed this is true but Storr at least contributes a lot.