[Beginner] Straight Mafia - TOWN WINS

[Streaker]

Alternative scenario to Alladin's if we mislynch a townie today, and one dies in the night:

Tomorrow we are 6 alive, 4 town 2 mafia. At that point, the Cop NEEDS to claim, having found scum or not.
If he found a scum, easy lynch. If not, he can clear 2 townies that he investigated + himself, effectively giving town a 2/3 chance of lynching mafia that day.

If cop claims today, he can only clear 1 town and himself (assuming cop found a town, if cop found scum he NEEDS to claim that today), giving us 2/6 chance of hitting mafia.

[AladdinSane]

I wrote something a bit stupid in my first post this evening (no smart alec remarks, ples ). Since we are not allowed to edit our posts, I want to note it here.

I wrote "(assuming the Cop doesn't get NKed)". THis was a bit dumb, becuase we are on D2 now, and the cop hasn't been NK'ed, so there is zero prob. that this can happen. So, just redact what is in the parentheses. Thanks, all.

[the white rose]

Alternative scenario to Alladin's if we mislynch a townie today, and one dies in the night:

Tomorrow we are 6 alive, 4 town 2 mafia. At that point, the Cop NEEDS to claim, having found scum or not.
If he found a scum, easy lynch. If not, he can clear 2 townies that he investigated + himself, effectively giving town a 2/3 chance of lynching mafia that day.

If cop claims today, he can only clear 1 town and himself (assuming cop found a town, if cop found scum he NEEDS to claim that today), giving us 2/6 chance of hitting mafia.

I would add to that, that if we are likely to lynch someone today who the cop has already found to be town, he should claim today, to prevent the lynch, of course if he knows someone to be scum he should tell us....he should not be afraid as there is very likely to be a doc who can protect our cop in the night. Scum would have to first guess the doc (if not PJ) nk him and then nk the cop the following night, but by then we will have invaluable information to win the game without any further help from the cop.

[Streaker]

Rose, going on what you just posted, cop could claim right now. At least, that is what you are suggesting. Cop claims, have doc protect him at night. That clears 2 town right now and have us a smaller pool.

I'm not sure about this... Thoughts?

[rizky_biznezz]

Wow I thought I would have a quick look before bed expecting to see a couple of new posts but u guys have been busy good job...

Sorry haven't been here much today long shift at work and then had plans straight after.. I have tomorrow off so I will be more active and respond to everything then

[rizky_biznezz]

But looking at that quickly i don't think they should claim now we might be lynching our doc so no guaranteed safety there... Well unless like u said they found scum

Ok back in the morning.. Hopefully Tim and mitch have given me something to work on by then too

[the white rose]

i said cop should only claim today if we are about to lynch someone he knows to be town, or if he got a scum read last night.

problem with him not claiming today is that scum may get lucky and nk him, with our doc unable to protect him cos he does not know the identity of him. Of course one could argue that with a doc, cop should claim in anycase, rather than getting nk'd he would guarantee survival, just so long as there is a doc, who should definitely not claim, but should definitely protect the cop. that means scum would first have to get lucky and nk the doc....and of course the cop should never divulge pr's just allegiance of which scum is already aware.

problem with this is i would question whether there is a doc, with a backup cop, would we have a doc as well?

[bosaardbeitje]

Sorry guys, I don't have any time left to make a decent contribution to this game. I have been reading along casually, but want to re-read tomorrow. From what I have seen some people are still in their tunnels And I saw that Aladdin has thought out a strategy for Town, which I want to take a closer look at. I also noticed that TWR has participated more and that Mitch and Tim are still quiet. Everything else has to wait.

[madmitch]

SORRY STREAKER , you are right and patricks claim of doc could be bullshit? so should we take the chance and hang him ? Have to reread everything ,and sorry guys have not posted because I have not been up to par.

[rizky_biznezz]

DJ is new here so the claim may have been accidental... but he also said he has played mafia before so i would assume he knows a little..
defensive and avoiding questions and the fact that he wasnt around much D1 really makes him look bad...

still not sure of mitch... his start was different to the other games and his post after tim voted for him was strange:

@ Tim whose says I was not joking in my first post, any way some times the joking gets carried away and we lose all sight of the mission send the scum back to hades, and the only reason you are voting for me is because of the other game we are in so let it go Tim let it go

mitch is usually all about the jokes and it was very early in D1 so thats a weird statement from him.. and his defense of tim voting for him doesnt make sense..

the only votes at that stage were 3 on mitch but then soldier votes tim and all of a sudden mitch is voting tim as well first with no reason to back it up but then when questioned:

I thought Tims vote was just a joke vote but it was not so I thought then okay tit for tat that is why I voted for him

tim had already said twice that it was a joke vote and mitch had responded saying it didnt look like a joke vote but yet he comments:

Sorry Tim, I missed where you said it was a joke vote so unvote and at this moment I am inclined to vote for I.B. because we have not heard from him and that is scummy. vote I.B.

at this stage he unvotes Tim:

there isnt really much of a case on tim and he can build a better case on IB who had been missing for a while
IB is one of the more experienced players in this mafia so a good target for scum.. also happened to be the target of the nightkill after mitch couldnt get anyone on board for the lynching..

mitch agrees with my post about IB being missing from both mafias so most likely busy and not being scummy but still keeps his vote...

IB comes back and votes tim... mitch jumps straight back on tim

mitch is missing throughout the whole soldier thing.. soldier is making himself look guilty on his own and mitch knows that we are lynching a town so he doesnt need to intervene and this way gets credit for not voting for him

only acknowledges that we lost 2 towns... no mention that one was a cop... he might not have even looked he already knew that he had nightkilled a town

doesnt have much to say about the DJ/Streaker case other than saying streaker looks scummy.. trying to make a case on another experienced player


im still undecided just thought i would look at other avenues..

leaning town on rose at the moment...

streaker made a good case from what we had... but im on the fence with him

aladdin seems like he is trying to scum hunt, has some good ideas and making some good cases so town for now

[DJPatrick]

I have NFI what FPD (posted a few time IRT moi) actually means but let's move on...Was the "soft claim" of Doc a mistake...apparently...will I be lynched for it? apparently..."It" and the Streaker manipulation...BUT White Rose don't get your knickers in a twist about my "attacks" on the NudieMan...I have played lots (prob hundreds) of CC games both with and against him in all cases we are pleasantly unpleasant to each other...not probs...
BUT : we who are about to die Saute You
When the NudieMan has managed to turn popular opinion in favour of my demise...I'd just like to point out that that two most recent posts wound back on the attacks and then went off on a different tangent...suggests that he sees the hatchet job is already done on me and is now starting to quietly withdraw to confuse the finger pointing when my lynching sees another Townie as Killed In Action then another one as Mafia Kill during the following night ..still don't know how long I've got but so long and thanx for the fish!!!

[rizky_biznezz]

@DJ if u are town why not help us to make cases or give ur reads on other players... We know ur thoughts on streaker but who else do u find suspicious? Who do u think is his partner? Give us something else to look in to... I said I thought mitch was suspicious and put some examples out there what do u think?

[rizky_biznezz]

Tim u posted in the other mafia how come nothing in here we need ur thoughts

[Streaker]

I have NFI what FPD (posted a few time IRT moi) actually means but let's move on...Was the "soft claim" of Doc a mistake...apparently...will I be lynched for it? apparently..."It" and the Streaker manipulation...BUT White Rose don't get your knickers in a twist about my "attacks" on the NudieMan...I have played lots (prob hundreds) of CC games both with and against him in all cases we are pleasantly unpleasant to each other...not probs...
BUT : we who are about to die Saute You
When the NudieMan has managed to turn popular opinion in favour of my demise...I'd just like to point out that that two most recent posts wound back on the attacks and then went off on a different tangent...suggests that he sees the hatchet job is already done on me and is now starting to quietly withdraw to confuse the finger pointing when my lynching sees another Townie as Killed In Action then another one as Mafia Kill during the following night ..still don't know how long I've got but so long and thanx for the fish!!!

So you find me scum because I attack you, and now you find me scum because I try to find the other... scum? There is more then 1 mafia, and if we correctly lynch you today the job is not done. Need to look at everyone here. Also, there is 1 (ONE) vote on you. If I had turned 'public' opinion against you there would be more votes. There is barely any pressure on you at all, so get a grip.

I'll ask you again, DJ, who do you think is scum and why?

[AladdinSane]

I don't have a lot to add today.

Earlier, I outlined a theory that has Streaker/DJP as the Mafiosi. I'm not wedded to the theory but I think it is a possibility.

One thing that worries me is that DJP just might actually be the doc. He could have softclaimed from inexperience, and it is plausible that the Mafia didn't pick up on his oblique claim. I know that I missed it, although if the spelling of 'Hippocrates' had been correct, I like to think I would have been on it. DJP in a recent post wrote 'Saute' instead of 'Salute', so maybe these are joke misspellings. Bos also said she missed the hint. All this means that Streaker might be wrong in saying that the fact that DJP didn't get NKed makes him look scummy - the Mafia might have missed the hint too. That suggests yet another scenario, in which DJP is actually Town and Streaker is scum and gunning for him. That seems to be the case DJP is making. What we need, as others have pointed out, is for DJP to come out and make a better defense and give us his thoughts on other players. He is being a bit Soldierish at the moment, and it could well get him lynched. So, for now, I think I'll backpedal a bit on my suggested strategy from earlier. there might be too much of a risk of hanging our doc (if, indeed, there is a doc).

Mitch has appeared on my radar but his post today suggests there are reasons for his lack of substantial posts to date. At the moment I am adopting a wait-and-see attitude. If Mitch doesn't make good on his promise to come up with more fairly soon, though, I could see myself voting Mitch for D2.

Tim remains neutral for me for now, but he is another who has to step up and contribute more if he is to avoid generating further suspicion against him.

In summary: FOS @ DJP, Streaker, Mitch.

[Streaker]

Ofcourse it's possible DJ is the doc, I never suggested otherwise. My case is built around the likeliness of mafia missing that claim, and the logic that it implies. I never said it was a waterproof case, and I'd be happy to persue other venues but at the very least I managed to get a very good discussion going that will be usefull in the future.

Something to consider: imagine I am mafia, and missed his claim on D1, but found out on D2. Would I push him to get him lynched (nearly insuring I would follow him soon after), or would I simply wait and target him for nightkill on N2? A WIFOM scenario, yes, but think about it.

To be honest, DJ's latest respones give me more town feeling then mafia. I feel he is a new player now that overreacted to someone pushing him. I have no regrets of my push on him, as it had all the elements of a good scumhunt.
It also made me suspicious of the players who didn't want to get involved into that discussion

So, rizky and alladin you 2 are my biggest town reads. Who would you guys go after, and what did you think of my thoughts on other mafia in previous post?

[TimWoodbury]

Tim u posted in the other mafia how come nothing in here we need ur thoughts

i didnt post here yesterday becuase i couldnft find where i last left off wwith postings. reading this page it almsot looks like TWR is fishing looking for a cop role

[Streaker]

Tim u posted in the other mafia how come nothing in here we need ur thoughts

i didnt post here yesterday becuase i couldnft find where i last left off wwith postings. reading this page it almsot looks like TWR is fishing looking for a cop role

How so? Rose clearly stated what he thinks the cop should do under which circumstances. Where was the fishing?

[TimWoodbury]

Ofcourse it's possible DJ is the doc, I never suggested otherwise. My case is built around the likeliness of mafia missing that claim, and the logic that it implies. I never said it was a waterproof case, and I'd be happy to persue other venues but at the very least I managed to get a very good discussion going that will be usefull in the future.

Something to consider: imagine I am mafia, and missed his claim on D1, but found out on D2. Would I push him to get him lynched (nearly insuring I would follow him soon after), or would I simply wait and target him for nightkill on N2? A WIFOM scenario, yes, but think about it.

To be honest, DJ's latest respones give me more town feeling then mafia. I feel he is a new player now that overreacted to someone pushing him. I have no regrets of my push on him, as it had all the elements of a good scumhunt.
It also made me suspicious of the players who didn't want to get involved into that discussion

So, rizky and alladin you 2 are my biggest town reads. Who would you guys go after, and what did you think of my thoughts on other mafia in previous post?

i may have missed it or you may not have realized i was asking you but if i remember correctly the last begginer game you sat back for most of it as you wasnt wanting to "lead and wanted newr ones to figure out how to lead the game or something like that" but here since the start of d2 you been pushing pushing pushing whats the differance between here and there

fpd by streak to me reading with him saying quite often in 1 or 2 posts he was mentioning if cop he should claim today or should claim tomarow. right noww if there is a cop and he claims its up to doc to save him (skum kills doc tonight then hes more then likley dead the following night and really we only get 2 people from him but if he sits tight keeps investigating people till he finds a skum i think that would be a better play)

[AladdinSane]

Something to consider: imagine I am mafia, and missed his claim on D1, but found out on D2. Would I push him to get him lynched (nearly insuring I would follow him soon after), or would I simply wait and target him for nightkill on N2? A WIFOM scenario, yes, but think about it.

To be honest, DJ's latest respones give me more town feeling then mafia. I feel he is a new player now that overreacted to someone pushing him. I have no regrets of my push on him, as it had all the elements of a good scumhunt.
It also made me suspicious of the players who didn't want to get involved into that discussion

Perhaps your initial plan was to wait and NK DJP on N2, but when you pushed him a little and he reacted rather poorly, you saw your chance to lead a charge against him and come out looking blameless. I don't agree that you would follow soon after DJP, if his defense continued to be as poor as Soldier's - No-one came out looking scummy as a result of voting Soldier. If you are scum it would be good for you to get Town to do the dirty work for you, leaving you free to NK someone else.

And now perhaps you are backpedalling on DJP as a result of the FOS being pointed at you. Hmmm. Trying to disassociate yourself from any campaign against him that might come about, perhaps?

I don't know Streaker - you are doing a good job of appearing co-operative and scum-hunting, but I just can't quite get past this gut feeling I've got.

[Streaker]

Ofcourse it's possible DJ is the doc, I never suggested otherwise. My case is built around the likeliness of mafia missing that claim, and the logic that it implies. I never said it was a waterproof case, and I'd be happy to persue other venues but at the very least I managed to get a very good discussion going that will be usefull in the future.

Something to consider: imagine I am mafia, and missed his claim on D1, but found out on D2. Would I push him to get him lynched (nearly insuring I would follow him soon after), or would I simply wait and target him for nightkill on N2? A WIFOM scenario, yes, but think about it.

To be honest, DJ's latest respones give me more town feeling then mafia. I feel he is a new player now that overreacted to someone pushing him. I have no regrets of my push on him, as it had all the elements of a good scumhunt.
It also made me suspicious of the players who didn't want to get involved into that discussion

So, rizky and alladin you 2 are my biggest town reads. Who would you guys go after, and what did you think of my thoughts on other mafia in previous post?

i may have missed it or you may not have realized i was asking you but if i remember correctly the last begginer game you sat back for most of it as you wasnt wanting to "lead and wanted newr ones to figure out how to lead the game or something like that" but here since the start of d2 you been pushing pushing pushing whats the differance between here and there

fpd by streak to me reading with him saying quite often in 1 or 2 posts he was mentioning if cop he should claim today or should claim tomarow. right noww if there is a cop and he claims its up to doc to save him (skum kills doc tonight then hes more then likley dead the following night and really we only get 2 people from him but if he sits tight keeps investigating people till he finds a skum i think that would be a better play)

Didn't I mod that game? I didn't play it... Which game are you talking about specifically?

@Aladin, it's up to you what you find scummier - someone who is very agressive in pushing cases or the people who are laying low. It's appalling how little pushing is going on in this game, even for a beginner mafia. Literally nobody is pushing anything, and all that is done now is the result of my actions. Everyone needs to step up. Maybe that is why your gut is telling you I'm scummy, because the contrast is so big.

[AladdinSane]

@Aladin, it's up to you what you find scummier - someone who is very agressive in pushing cases or the people who are laying low. It's appalling how little pushing is going on in this game, even for a beginner mafia. Literally nobody is pushing anything, and all that is done now is the result of my actions. Everyone needs to step up. Maybe that is why your gut is telling you I'm scummy, because the contrast is so big.

Yes, I agree. That's why I am not calling for you to be lynched on D2. You might well be clean, and a great asset for Town. Earlier I was leaning toward a DJP vote, but as I said earlier, my concern that he might actually be the doc has me looking hard at Mitch.

Also, it isn't true to say nobody but you is pushing anything - I'm pushing this case against you, aren't I?

[rizky_biznezz]

now tim i thought was town but now i do think a few things could be seen as scummy...

joke stage bos votes mitch... then tim follows with a vote on mitch..

tim was the first person to question soldier:

Soldier4Christ wrote:
I say we vote up one of the ones who want mitch dead, I bet at least one of those awful 3 are mafia

what made you so eager to get out of the joke vote stage?

IB was right it does appear soldier was joking..

im not really sure what this is... what are you referring to about mitch, tim?:

unvote mitch
vote soldier some prolly gonna say oh well this is jsut because mitch asked blah blah blah some might say this is me wanting to fast lynched but hell i almost got fast lynched while i slept....... hes L-1 im L-2 now ill go ahead and claim im VT

pretty much just repeats what i said:

me:

Soldier make a case on someone, give us something else to look at or give us a read of some sort.... For now unvote to avoid an early kill and give soldier a chance to claim or convince us

Maybe u tried with ur case on Tim but we are all going for a random lynch so that we can learn something so it isn't all that scummy so what other thoughts do u have? If u are as experienced as u say then maybe u see something that we havent.. Because otherwise ur lack of informative posts just show us u don't want to help town

tim:

okay so soldier your experianced so you must see something that we dont see, can you please give something otehr then i must be skum for going for a random lynch(i dont buy the experienced competitive thing as you woulda known that D1 is 99.99999% random lynch) but please make some sort of case on someone anyone

first time he makes a proper argument happens to be to push us for the soldier lynch:

you wanna start with streaker yet you still didnt make a case at all on him. your experianced yet your not maing cases?? reluctant to claim VT as well not like it was a PR sounds fishy

IB was already questioning tim so killing him took away a person that might have followed up with a case on tim and also gave him his framing defence

didnt realise DJ had claimed doc until it was pointed out.. maybe explaining why he didnt nightkill DJ (he missed the claim)... or possibly making excuses why his partner was still alive:

im glad im not the only one who upon rereading saw that he claimed doc, maybe skum didnt realzie it idk

then he starts out defending streaker:

i think had streaker been around later in D1 he prolly would of brought up the snail bait that DJ left and asked more of it there

then after mitch and bos call out streaker:

hmm if i remember the last beginner game streak sat back and let others run the game this one hes doing quite the opposite hes being very pushy especially of the new guys. so FOS streaker

im a bit confused about streaker at the moment but tims sudden change of opinion just seems like he is following... yet to see any real cases or reads or actual arguments for or against the major DJ case going on

fpd by a lot lol

[TimWoodbury]

Ofcourse it's possible DJ is the doc, I never suggested otherwise. My case is built around the likeliness of mafia missing that claim, and the logic that it implies. I never said it was a waterproof case, and I'd be happy to persue other venues but at the very least I managed to get a very good discussion going that will be usefull in the future.

Something to consider: imagine I am mafia, and missed his claim on D1, but found out on D2. Would I push him to get him lynched (nearly insuring I would follow him soon after), or would I simply wait and target him for nightkill on N2? A WIFOM scenario, yes, but think about it.

To be honest, DJ's latest respones give me more town feeling then mafia. I feel he is a new player now that overreacted to someone pushing him. I have no regrets of my push on him, as it had all the elements of a good scumhunt.
It also made me suspicious of the players who didn't want to get involved into that discussion

So, rizky and alladin you 2 are my biggest town reads. Who would you guys go after, and what did you think of my thoughts on other mafia in previous post?

i may have missed it or you may not have realized i was asking you but if i remember correctly the last begginer game you sat back for most of it as you wasnt wanting to "lead and wanted newr ones to figure out how to lead the game or something like that" but here since the start of d2 you been pushing pushing pushing whats the differance between here and there

fpd by streak to me reading with him saying quite often in 1 or 2 posts he was mentioning if cop he should claim today or should claim tomarow. right noww if there is a cop and he claims its up to doc to save him (skum kills doc tonight then hes more then likley dead the following night and really we only get 2 people from him but if he sits tight keeps investigating people till he finds a skum i think that would be a better play)

Didn't I mod that game? I didn't play it... Which game are you talking about specifically?

just looked and you ae correct for some reason i thought it was you but was another player so previous comment is null in void
FP'd by rozky

nah rizky ouldnt really say i am back peddleing i just thought i remembered something from the last game but turn out i was thinking of the wrong player. when dj said he snailmailed his role i instantly went back and read found it didnt post to call him out as i was hoping noone else saw it. streaker prolly woulda called j out on it D1 where as i ws gonna wait and see how dj played (more or less was hoping skum missed it and now even if they did miss it they know all about it)

[rizky_biznezz]

so who are your scum and town reads then tim?

you think streaker is leaning scum who do you think is his partner?