[SPECIAL] Surprise Mafia - Over - Mafia Wins - MVP Aladdin

[Ragian]

For crying out loud, Aladdin. Everyone knows that nothing of the stuff you're posting is certain. But what do you want to do with it? Sit on your hands? You're posting as if the lack of certainty of the inventions I have created (whereas we know that LSU's are faulty or inverted) speaks for their malfunction. It does not.

While I like to have stuff like the things you're posting over and over and over again in the back of my mind, it needs to be in the back of the mind. You can't really use your reservations productively. Or can you? What do you suggest?

[Metsfanmax]

I liked the posts that Ragain and I.B. did . they make sense . VOTE RISH

You would notice that my vote is on Deg, though...

Nice last post by Mets. It's not followed by a vote for Deg, though. Why is that?

FP'ed by Aladdin

Fair point. I don't have a reason to delay my vote.

vote degaston

[AladdinSane]

For crying out loud, Aladdin. Everyone knows that nothing of the stuff you're posting is certain. But what do you want to do with it? Sit on your hands? You're posting as if the lack of certainty of the inventions I have created (whereas we know that LSU's are faulty or inverted) speaks for their malfunction. It does not.

While I like to have stuff like the things you're posting over and over and over again in the back of my mind, it needs to be in the back of the mind. You can't really use your reservations productively. Or can you? What do you suggest?

I've awreddy made my sujesjun. Linch Mitch to buy Town a day to chek out yer invenchuns moor, AND to remove teh posibility of him screwing us on teh vote later in teh game. If either Deg or Rish are scum, they'll still be around fer linchin tomorow. Teh ting is, we don't have enuff on either Deg or Rish rite now to risk linchimn wit only 50% chanse of geting it rite. BEter to linch teh scumiest player of orl - Mitch.

Orso, dont twist my werds. I have NEVER WUNCE sed dat teh lack of positive evidense dat yer invenchuns werk speeks fer there malfunkshun. As wit teh Marashu alinement issue I meerly raised a point of logic fer peepul to be keep in mind wen desiding wot to do.

[AladdinSane]

BTW, I have to post sum stuff "over and over and over" becorse so many playas hear are inteleckshually sloppy, and dey need to heer stuff repeetedly before it sinks in. If peepul picked up on it teh firt time, i woodent have to repeet it.

[Ragian]

For crying out loud, Aladdin. Everyone knows that nothing of the stuff you're posting is certain. But what do you want to do with it? Sit on your hands? You're posting as if the lack of certainty of the inventions I have created (whereas we know that LSU's are faulty or inverted) speaks for their malfunction. It does not.

While I like to have stuff like the things you're posting over and over and over again in the back of my mind, it needs to be in the back of the mind. You can't really use your reservations productively. Or can you? What do you suggest?

I've awreddy made my sujesjun. Linch Mitch to buy Town a day to chek out yer invenchuns moor, AND to remove teh posibility of him screwing us on teh vote later in teh game. If either Deg or Rish are scum, they'll still be around fer linchin tomorow. Teh ting is, we don't have enuff on either Deg or Rish rite now to risk linchimn wit only 50% chanse of geting it rite. BEter to linch teh scumiest player of orl - Mitch.

Orso, dont twist my werds. I have NEVER WUNCE sed dat teh lack of positive evidense dat yer invenchuns werk speeks fer there malfunkshun. As wit teh Marashu alinement issue I meerly raised a point of logic fer peepul to be keep in mind wen desiding wot to do.

Fair point that you have already suggested something else. Sorry about that.

I'm not twisting your words, though, I'm saying how your posts read to me.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Vote Count

Rish (3) - benga, IB, Mitch,
Deg (2) - Rage, Mets,
Mitch (1) - Aladdin
No lynch (2) - rish, players

8 to lynch. Deadline monday 29th 12:00 CC time

[AladdinSane]

Orso, dont twist my werds. I have NEVER WUNCE sed dat teh lack of positive evidense dat yer invenchuns werk speeks fer there malfunkshun. As wit teh Marashu alinement issue I meerly raised a point of logic fer peepul to be keep in mind wen desiding wot to do.

Fair point that you have already suggested something else. Sorry about that.

I'm not twisting your words, though, I'm saying how your posts read to me.

No prob. Hear again is my orijinal post on teh subjekt of LSU TJ's invenchuns versus yores. I cleerly distingwish between dem, saying LSU TJ's have been shown to be unreliabul, whereas yores have neither shown to be reliabul nor unreliabul (i.e. "untested"):

Rong. Neither inventer's gifts have been shown too be reliabul. Teh differense is dat LSU TJ's gifts have been shown too be UNreliabul, whereas Ragian's remain essenshally untested.

LSU TJ:
8-borl - unreliabul resolt;
Swetter - backfired;
Glasses - ??? untested

Ragian:
Gun - no evidense dat teh 'woond' setting ackshually jailed Mitch, or had eny effekt wotsoever;
Bullettproof - no evidense dat Benga was shot at, theirfore no evidense dat it werked;
Alinement indickater - ??? untested

So their is no ackshual evidense day eny of Ragian's inventshuns have werked as planned. We shood simply regard dem as "Untested".

Dat's still my posishun, awtho I wood add dat LSU TJ's invenchuns seem to be "reliably unreliabul".

[AladdinSane]

Has anyone played a game with a scum inventor before? I can't find any information about what that would be like.

Specifically:

Inventors cannot simply use their own gadgets themselves, and usually cannot give Inventions to themselves; they generally must give them to another player to use. An Inventor who is able to use their own gadgets is almost always better off simply using them themselves.

But giving an invention to a fellow scum would not be much different than giving it to yourself. The inventor could create whatever was most useful to scum, and the recipient would know who made it and what it did. So would a scum inventor only be allowed to give their inventions to non-scum, or is there some other way that this works?

Hear is a quote frum MafiaScum dat mite be useful:

False Inventor

Original flavor: Kaguya Houraisan

An Inventor; that is, a role that can give abilities away... but they don't do anything. This is a bastard role to be sure, and only intended for scum. Aside from making people look bad, the primary purpose of this role is to act as a pseudo-Roleblocker by convincing the recipient of the false invention to use it instead of any other abilities they may have. This works best when there are actual Inventors in the game, as the False Inventor can instill distrust in the real inventions and thus make people less inclined to use them.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... e_Inventor

Pweese - if enywun has eny nits to pick about me posting dis, take a deep breth or tree and move on.

[degaston]

Do you have some alternate explanation for what went on after I said "Bye bye, Mitch"?

Yes: you never sent a PM to anyone. Not saying I necessarily believe this is more likely than the scenario you've given, If even you don't believe what you've written, why should anyone else? but it could entirely have been a bluff to see who would would pop out of the woodwork and respond to it. Did you even read what you wrote there? Are you seriously suggesting that I claimed to have shot Mitch on D2 just to "see who would pop out of the woodwork"? Yes, that was a brilliant plan of mine to... I have no idea what you think the purpose of that would be. But whatever it was, I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that meddling Mets!

Let's examine a little closer what actually happened. You posted:

What do you do with a jester? Leave him? If there's a vig, should he kill him?

At which point Storr responded 4 minutes later saying "yes and no." 10 minutes after that, you said "bye bye, mitch." 11 minutes after that Storr says "I'd you of used it to force a claim out of whatsausage :/," and then 15 minutes after that, you said you had deleted the PM. Now, let's review. You claim now that you were shooting at mitch because he's a jester and therefore dangerous to town (dubious, as described earlier and repeated again later in this post). If the case for doing that was as solid as you think it is, why did you suddenly up and change your mind after virtually no counterargument? (Storr's post had nothing to do with it, since you didn't follow his lead to use it on Whatsausage.)

I didn't claim that Mitch was dangerous to town. Mitch did:

Best for town if the packages never came, I AM mailman for now I.B. already received his package, I was told the rest are bad for town, I DON'T WANT TO DIE but it looks like I might half too to stop the deliveries, why me ? I just was starting to have fun.

I'm not saying I believed that he was a mailman delivering bombs, but I felt very confident that he was not beneficial to town. But don't let me stop you. Please continue with your line of reasoning that Mitch is a townie who claims to be a Jester.

You left a little something off of Storr's response to my question:

What do you do with a jester? Leave him? If there's a vig, should he kill him?

Yes and no. Mafia could redirect if they have a bus role....

So Storr's concern about killing Mitch was that the kill could be redirected, but because I could use the gun during the day, that wasn't a problem. My main priority in using the gun was to not hurt town. I could easily be wrong if I decided to shoot someone that I thought was scum based on my own suspicions. Ragian expected that only scum (or someone acting foolishly) would be confident enough to use kill. But he didn't factor in the possibility of Mitch claiming outright that he was bad for town.

After Storr suggested another use for the kill ability, I decided to try the 'wound' setting on Mitch instead. We were not at LYLO, so it didn't matter to me that he die immediately, but I assumed that he would die of his wounds eventually. If Ragian had called it 'Stun' (think Star Trek) instead of 'Wound', then I would not have assumed that it could kill. The gun disintegrated after one use, which is why I didn't use it to threaten whatsausage. Ragian can confirm that, since you say you believe he is town.

There are things you could have done that are legitimately pro-town that would make it much more likely that you are actually town than mafia, but you didn't do any of them.

Such as? Please let me know how you've cracked mafia by listing all of the things I could have done that would have made it "much more likely" that I was town. These are things that could not have been done by scum trying to look townish, right? I'm sure everyone else would enjoy hearing this also.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

3rd parties are just as likely to side with town as they are with scum with one exception. Jester won't win since town shouldn't lynch him. Alladin if you advocate lynching the "jester" again I"ll be voting for you. Jesters are not that important to worry about right now. We need to focus on getting mafia.

Worrying about bullshit posted from another site is a waste of time. Every mod is different. Most mods will add their own flavor to different roles.

Does anyone want to claim that they sent me something last night? If not, I am definitely not going to be using it since it could be a bomb for all I know.

I do believe Ragian to also be a townie. At this point TWR, Alladin, and one of Deg and Rish are my top list of scummies. I'm using my phone to type so this will be it. Vote Deg I had my vote there yesterday and see no reason to change it today.

[AladdinSane]

3rd parties are just as likely to side with town as they are with scum with one exception.

No point torking in generalities hear - we're torking spesifickly about Mitch. Is Mitch just as likely to side wit Town? Based on past performence, I tink not. He's been funking wit us orl thru teh game, spredding misinfermashun about his roll and so on. At dis point, trusting Mitch is crazy.

Jester won't win since town shouldn't lynch him. Alladin if you advocate lynching the "jester" again I"ll be voting for you. Jesters are not that important to worry about right now.

Wot makes you so shore Mitch reely is a jester? I DO advokate linching him, and my vote will stay wear it is until I see a strong enuff case aginst sumwun else to convinse me we're not hedded fer another mislinch. Vote me if you like, but don't cum crying to me if you mislinch Deg.

We need to focus on getting mafia.

Yes, agreed. Only teensy-weensly littul problem wit dat is where having trubbul werking out who dey are. If you tink teh case aginst Deg is strong enuff to take a chanse linching on, good fer you. Fer me, it currently isent. I joined teh Falko linch becorse of teh looming dedline, and rejoined teh Wing linch after dropping out, even tho I had sum reservashuns, and i'm not going to be on a turd mislinch. I tink my plan is a sound wun and I stand by it.

[AladdinSane]

Worrying about bullshit posted from another site is a waste of time. Every mod is different. Most mods will add their own flavor to different roles.

Dis is pure BS, btw. Wear do you tink rolls cum frum? Do you tink Cops, Docs, Jesters, Inventers, Gods, Enablers, Revivers, Vigs, Busdrivers, Jailers and so on were ackshually created hear at CC? Yeh, sumtimes mods will tweek rolls but often dey dont - dey just take dem holsesale frum sites like MafiaScum.

Why are you trying to downgrade info about teh false inventer? Does it make you feel uncumfertabul?

[degaston]

Hear is a quote frum MafiaScum dat mite be useful:

False Inventor

Original flavor: Kaguya Houraisan

An Inventor; that is, a role that can give abilities away... but they don't do anything. This is a bastard role to be sure, and only intended for scum. Aside from making people look bad, the primary purpose of this role is to act as a pseudo-Roleblocker by convincing the recipient of the false invention to use it instead of any other abilities they may have. This works best when there are actual Inventors in the game, as the False Inventor can instill distrust in the real inventions and thus make people less inclined to use them.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... e_Inventor

Pweese - if enywun has eny nits to pick about me posting dis, take a deep breth or tree and move on.

Not that you need my approval, but I actually found that post helpful. I had dismissed false inventor as a possibility because benga reported that he received a response from the 'Alignment Definer'. But since you like speculation, I'll give it a try:

Since benga reported getting a result, the only way that Rage is a scum false inventor is if benga is also scum, and they made up a result for him to report. This could also provide an alternate explanation for the no-kill on N3. Scum could have refrained from killing to establish that Rage's bulletproof invention worked, and give more validity to the 'Alignment Definer'. Then they could identify three townies to get them all lynched, or perhaps include a sacrificial scum to continue the deception with more inventions if needed. I can't explain what Rage would have said if I had used the gun in some other way and it still hadn't worked.

The whole thing seems fairly unlikely to me, but I'm not sure that I can rule it out at this point. I haven't gone back over all the posts to see if anything disproves it.

I'm sure Mets would point out that I could be a part of the whole conspiracy, and I'm revealing our entire plan as a way to build town cred, so I'll save him the effort. He's probably busy working on a post about all those things I could have done that would have indicated that I was "much more likely" to be town.

[degaston]

Worrying about bullshit posted from another site is a waste of time. Every mod is different. Most mods will add their own flavor to different roles.

Dis is pure BS, btw. Wear do you tink rolls cum frum? Do you tink Cops, Docs, Jesters, Inventers, Gods, Enablers, Revivers, Vigs, Busdrivers, Jailers and so on were ackshually created hear at CC? Yeh, sumtimes mods will tweek rolls but often dey dont - dey just take dem holsesale frum sites like MafiaScum.

Why are you trying to downgrade info about teh false inventer? Does it make you feel uncumfertabul?

I agree with you here, but do you now see why I was not happy with this post:

Well, he hasent been very forthcoming about it so far, has he? Wot does it matter wot teh "paralize" setting wood have dun anyway? How is knowing dat going to move tings forward? Looks like a line of enkwiry desined to genarate noise rather than identify scum.

[Metsfanmax]

Best for town if the packages never came, I AM mailman for now I.B. already received his package, I was told the rest are bad for town, I DON'T WANT TO DIE but it looks like I might half too to stop the deliveries, why me ? I just was starting to have fun.

I'm not saying I believed that he was a mailman delivering bombs, but I felt very confident that he was not beneficial to town. But don't let me stop you. Please continue with your line of reasoning that Mitch is a townie who claims to be a Jester.

You can't even keep your story straight from post to post. Last time you were killing him because he's a jester, now you were killing him because he's not a jester but he's something else that is dangerous to town? And that's not even getting to the fact that you did not actually kill this person who was allegedly a threat to town? I'm not even going to bother writing a detailed response because you'll just shift your position again.

There are things you could have done that are legitimately pro-town that would make it much more likely that you are actually town than mafia, but you didn't do any of them.

Such as?

I already gave an example in that post -- if you had killed a mafia member with the gun, I would have accepted that you were very very likely to be town. I'm not going to do your thinking for you, it's not my problem that you're not imaginative enough to come up with other scenarios. But in any case this is not the point -- the point is that you tried to use your actions as a defense of the claim that you are town, when in fact those actions do nothing of the sort. Even if we accept that there was no way for you to use that invention to prove your town credentials, that's enough, well, to disprove your argument that you used the invention to prove your town credentials. And in trying to paint yourself as town for an action that in the end had no actual town benefit, you have demonstrated enough scumminess that the choice between you and rish is easy.

[degaston]

You can't even keep your story straight from post to post. Last time you were killing him because he's a jester, now you were killing him because he's not a jester but he's something else that is dangerous to town? And that's not even getting to the fact that you did not actually kill this person who was allegedly a threat to town? I'm not even going to bother writing a detailed response because you'll just shift your position again.

This was in the post you started attacking me over:

On D2, I sent the mods a pm to kill Mitch because I was confident that he was not town. I assumed Jester, though there a small chance that he is scum pretending to be a Jester to avoid a lynch.

Can you provide some example of where I contradicted this? Whether he's a Jester or scum, his win condition is not with town.

You, on the other hand, see this:

Best for town if the packages never came, I AM mailman for now I.B. already received his package, I was told the rest are bad for town, I DON'T WANT TO DIE but it looks like I might half too to stop the deliveries, why me ? I just was starting to have fun.

and this:

Since it looks like I am going to die anyway here's the truth, I WAS NEVER A DEPUTY , MAILMAN,or anything else important,where I.B. got that eight ball is beyond me, AS Aladdin surmised I thought the mailman gave him the info on H.S., but it was fun watching you two argue about it. I am a jester and need to be hanged to win, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. PS. everything I said is the truth

and your conclusion is simply beyond belief:

There was very little useful evidence then, and indeed still not any now, that mitch is not town. (I mean he says he is a jester but mitch has said a lot of nonsense things in this game. And every game.)

There are things you could have done that are legitimately pro-town that would make it much more likely that you are actually town than mafia, but you didn't do any of them.

Such as?

I already gave an example in that post -- if you had killed a mafia member with the gun, I would have accepted that you were very very likely to be town.

So you would have failed your own test for townieness then? You voted for whatsausage on D2. Is that who you would have shot? How would that have proved that you were "much more likely" to be town? How would a townie know who the scum are anyway? We haven't been able to lynch any yet, so I'm sure you would not have believed I was town even if I had shot a scum. You would have said I was just bussing to build town cred.

Meanwhile, rish has only made one post here in the past 10 days, but somehow he's managed to make 8 posts in other threads on the 14th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 21st. But according to you, he's the townie one, right?

[Metsfanmax]

Meanwhile, rish has only made one post here in the past 10 days, but somehow he's managed to make 8 posts in other threads on the 14th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 21st. But according to you, he's the townie one, right?

I think he is more likely to be town than you, yes. Keep in mind though that there is more to it than that. If you are telling the truth about being a VT and we lynch you, then we haven't lost an important power role, and we just lynch rishaed tomorrow. If you are scum and we lynch rishaed, the town jailkeeper, then we have lost a super useful role on the way to getting scum. That's not a risk I want to take. If rishaed is scum jailkeeper (say), he will only have one more night to live, and he can't do that much harm with just a single blocking power in one night. So if I'm wrong, which is obviously possible -- I'm the first to admit that this game is a crapshoot and people are wrong way more often than they like to admit -- then the net harm done is not as great.

If you are indeed who you say you are, you should recognize that trading a VT for a scum jailkeeper is a good trade, so instead of fighting the lynch, take these last couple days to help set the groundwork for future days. If you're lying and you're scum, just keep fighting it, and you'll go down eventually anyway.

[PLAYER57832]

FYI -- I will most likely not be posting for a day or two, unless there is a RL change here. I will be back before vote deadline.

[PLAYER57832]

Also... want to think about what everyone has said, is saying before I vote.

[Iron Butterfly]

Somthing I was pondering on the way home from work.

Why was there no night kill on night three? Besides Rish what other claimed protective roles could have prevented a kill? Rish jailed me. regardless of weather one thinks I am scum or not who besides Rish could have prevented a kill? We have no claimed Town roles that have that ability. Everyone else has claimed VT. We have also TWR. If everyone is accountable one can assume I was either targeted OR I am scum. If ther is a choice between Rish and Deg, unless someone can step forward and say they protected someone besides me to prevent a kill I have to assume Rish is who he says.

Benga were you BP that night? I forget and to lazy to check.

I am going to unvote Rishand holdoffon my vote.

[Ragian]

I do believe Ragian to also be a townie. At this point TWR, Alladin, and one of Deg and Rish are my top list of scummies. I'm using my phone to type so this will be it. Vote Deg I had my vote there yesterday and see no reason to change it today.

While I'm happy about your confidence in me, TWR has been vetted by a dead cop. I can't see TWR not be town.

But since you like speculation, I'll give it a try:

Since benga reported getting a result, the only way that Rage is a scum false inventor is if benga is also scum, and they made up a result for him to report. This could also provide an alternate explanation for the no-kill on N3. Scum could have refrained from killing to establish that Rage's bulletproof invention worked, and give more validity to the 'Alignment Definer'. Then they could identify three townies to get them all lynched, or perhaps include a sacrificial scum to continue the deception with more inventions if needed. I can't explain what Rage would have said if I had used the gun in some other way and it still hadn't worked.

The whole thing seems fairly unlikely to me, but I'm not sure that I can rule it out at this point. I haven't gone back over all the posts to see if anything disproves it.

@IB, Benga was BP that night.

[rizky_biznezz]

as far as deg and rish i would probably have to vote deg because i dont want to risk lynching another power role...

what are peoples current thoughts:

regarding the glasses.... seeing as lsu gave the sweater to storr and it flipped the results to lsu, did we decide if it was possible if the results of the glasses could have been flipped to whoever used them so maybe benga has blood on his hands?

and what did majority believe was most likely for the night with no kill:

someone said it was unlikely benga was the target seeing as both inventors gave him an invention and one inventor could be scum.. but do we believe benga was the target and saved by bulletproof or IB was the target and saved by rish jailing him?

[benga]

Somthing I was pondering on the way home from work.

Why was there no night kill on night three? Besides Rish what other claimed protective roles could have prevented a kill? Rish jailed me. regardless of weather one thinks I am scum or not who besides Rish could have prevented a kill? We have no claimed Town roles that have that ability. Everyone else has claimed VT. We have also TWR. If everyone is accountable one can assume I was either targeted OR I am scum. If ther is a choice between Rish and Deg, unless someone can step forward and say they protected someone besides me to prevent a kill I have to assume Rish is who he says.

Benga were you BP that night? I forget and to lazy to check.

I am going to unvote Rishand holdoffon my vote.

i can't know if I was shot or not, but I did took BP personlity mod for Rag on D2.

[Ragian]

I think the glasses were just flipped the same way an insane cop gets a flipped result. For instance, Marashu got a guilty result on TWR, but Marashu knew that he was insane (and his death verifies this) so in essence that means that TWR is town.

The same way, the glasses showed that IB had blood on his hands, but LSU's inventions have proven to flip results, so I reckon that IB does not have blood on his hands. In the sense of nightkilling anyway

Is the only reason that you would vote Deg over Rish that you risk losing a PR? You don't have any strong feelings towards either of them being scum?

[rizky_biznezz]

i havent found enough to convince me either way but i still have some reading to do tomorrow... im not even sure if we can trust the results but at the moment thats pretty much the decider, if rish is telling the truth and is town then he is our only save left and could possibly be the reason there was no kill so i am hesitant