[SPECIAL] Surprise Mafia - Over - Mafia Wins - MVP Aladdin

[the white rose]

rish, can you recap for us please.

who did you jail and on which nights....it would be helpful if you could also list your reasoning as to why you jailed who you did

[degaston]

as far as deg and rish i would probably have to vote deg because i dont want to risk lynching another power role...

What if that power role is scum? Do you still not want to risk lynching him? Do you think that there are no mafia power roles out there? A jailer could just as easily be mafia. If you're assuming that the 'Alignment Definer' is true, then it's between me and rish, and you can't just assume that the power role is more valuable to town. He might be more harmful to town.

You have to look at actions rather than just claims. Rish has only made one post here since shortly before wing was lynched. He said his computer was in the shop, but he's been continuing to make posts in other threads. You'd think someone besides me might have looked into it since it's probably a choice between me and rish today.

It doesn't seem like anyone has enough evidence to doubt Rage's invention, so though I don't know that Rish is scum, I know I am town.

Vote Rishaed

[rizky_biznezz]

I can't be sure of that and that crossed my mind too.. It should be an easy choice for the 2 of u and yet rish hasn't voted u and u have only just voted him so do u think he is scummy or are u just taking the easy choice now?

[degaston]

I can't be sure of that and that crossed my mind too.. It should be an easy choice for the 2 of u and yet rish hasn't voted u and u have only just voted him so do u think he is scummy or are u just taking the easy choice now?

For me, it's a choice between benga lying about the 'Alignment definer' and rish being scum. I thought rish was town on D4 when he had been jailing Wing, who I thought was scummy. Now that wing is confirmed town, and I see how little Rish has actually contributed to the game, how he seems to be avoiding the game, and how there hasn't been any pressure put on him because of it, I am reasonably comfortable that he is scum.

[Ragian]

I agree that we need Rish in here. Lucky for him, the pace of the game has slowed way, way down. How do you know that he has posted elsewhere? Also, he did say that his computer was in the shop and on his computer are his notes. Maybe that's why he's not contributing? Anyway, we need him to talk.

[rizky_biznezz]

@benga why did u vote PT during night 1? It was weird timing.. firstly it was night and we hadn't even seen the aftermath of ppls actions secondly he had just called u out for not reading and thirdly why place a vote when u knew u had investigations?

Also did u have reasons to not trust ur gift? Why did u vote for LSU and not one of the 3 on D4? If u dont even have confidence in it should we? Or did u just not want to be associated with wings lynch?

Sorry these are repeated questions but I'm still waiting for an answer

[Metsfanmax]

I can't be sure of that and that crossed my mind too.. It should be an easy choice for the 2 of u and yet rish hasn't voted u and u have only just voted him so do u think he is scummy or are u just taking the easy choice now?

For me, it's a choice between benga lying about the 'Alignment definer' and rish being scum. I thought rish was town on D4 when he had been jailing Wing, who I thought was scummy. Now that wing is confirmed town, and I see how little Rish has actually contributed to the game, how he seems to be avoiding the game, and how there hasn't been any pressure put on him because of it, I am reasonably comfortable that he is scum.

Other players who are still alive and are barely contributing:

- madmitch
- benga
- LSU
- /
- DJPatrick
- twr
- CatchersMitt

Are they all scum too, because no one has put much pressure on them for their inactivity?

[benga]

@benga why did u vote PT during night 1? It was weird timing.. firstly it was night and we hadn't even seen the aftermath of ppls actions secondly he had just called u out for not reading and thirdly why place a vote when u knew u had investigations?

Also did u have reasons to not trust ur gift? Why did u vote for LSU and not one of the 3 on D4? If u dont even have confidence in it should we? Or did u just not want to be associated with wings lynch?

Sorry these are repeated questions but I'm still waiting for an answer

not sure why I voted pt, would have to go back in that time of state of mind, assuming night talk was allowed so i thought voting is too
didn't want to start useing my investigations too soon, there are more valuable towards the end

voted for lsu, cause saw too many scummy people voting for wing, and I needed to have a vote in chance we reach deadline

I can't be sure of that and that crossed my mind too.. It should be an easy choice for the 2 of u and yet rish hasn't voted u and u have only just voted him so do u think he is scummy or are u just taking the easy choice now?

For me, it's a choice between benga lying about the 'Alignment definer' and rish being scum. I thought rish was town on D4 when he had been jailing Wing, who I thought was scummy. Now that wing is confirmed town, and I see how little Rish has actually contributed to the game, how he seems to be avoiding the game, and how there hasn't been any pressure put on him because of it, I am reasonably comfortable that he is scum.

Other players who are still alive and are barely contributing:

- madmitch
- benga
- LSU
- /
- DJPatrick
- twr
- CatchersMitt

Are they all scum too, because no one has put much pressure on them for their inactivity?

I have made a few posts, but my contribution was great, I would really appreciate if people would stop confusing those 2 things
also where is rizky in you list?

[degaston]

Other players who are still alive and are barely contributing:

- madmitch
- benga
- LSU
- /
- DJPatrick
- twr
- CatchersMitt

Are they all scum too, because no one has put much pressure on them for their inactivity?

Come on, Mets, put a little effort in. I think you know what the difference is between rish and the names you listed. Are you just playing dumb to try to confuse the issue?

[AladdinSane]

I can't be sure of that and that crossed my mind too.. It should be an easy choice for the 2 of u and yet rish hasn't voted u and u have only just voted him so do u think he is scummy or are u just taking the easy choice now?

For me, it's a choice between benga lying about the 'Alignment definer' and rish being scum. I thought rish was town on D4 when he had been jailing Wing, who I thought was scummy. Now that wing is confirmed town, and I see how little Rish has actually contributed to the game, how he seems to be avoiding the game, and how there hasn't been any pressure put on him because of it, I am reasonably comfortable that he is scum.

I just wanna put dis out dere: feel free to shoot it down if you find a whole in it.

We know LSU TJ's swetter werked by flipping back on teh wun who used it (LSU TJ himself) - insidently, is it weerd dat an inventer cood use an invenchun himself? - it was intended to show roll, but it wasent like LSU TJ sent it to Storr to use, LSU TJ ackshually used it himself wen he sent it to Storr.

Enyway, maybe orl LSU TJ's invenchuns werk dis way - by operating on teh user insted of teh intended target.. Dat wood meen dat wen IB used teh 8-borl on Sausage, it ackshually red IB and cleered him. It wood eggsplain how dis cood be rite:

Benga my magic 8 ball got Town on sausage.

For clarity I asked mod if magic 8 ball works like real life...hehe random results stuff. No magic 8 ball is right.

I.e. teh Mods sed teh 8-borl gave a corect reeding, but dident menshun it wasent a reeding of teh intended target.

It wood orso mean dat wen Benga used teh glases on IB, they red himself and sed dat Benga has blood on his hands, not IB.

Dat in tern wood imply dat Benga is scum, meening he prob lied about teh alinement indikater resolts. Meening both Deg and Rish cood be Town.

[AladdinSane]

I can't be sure of that and that crossed my mind too.. It should be an easy choice for the 2 of u and yet rish hasn't voted u and u have only just voted him so do u think he is scummy or are u just taking the easy choice now?

For me, it's a choice between benga lying about the 'Alignment definer' and rish being scum. I thought rish was town on D4 when he had been jailing Wing, who I thought was scummy. Now that wing is confirmed town, and I see how little Rish has actually contributed to the game, how he seems to be avoiding the game, and how there hasn't been any pressure put on him because of it, I am reasonably comfortable that he is scum.

Other players who are still alive and are barely contributing:

- madmitch
- benga
- LSU
- /
- DJPatrick
- twr
- CatchersMitt

Are they all scum too, because no one has put much pressure on them for their inactivity?

I wood add Player to dis list. She cheks in but never says enyting of substanse. It's orl 'Am tinking it over' and 'Not sure yet' and stuff like dat.

[Metsfanmax]

Other players who are still alive and are barely contributing:

- madmitch
- benga
- LSU
- /
- DJPatrick
- twr
- CatchersMitt

Are they all scum too, because no one has put much pressure on them for their inactivity?

Come on, Mets, put a little effort in. I think you know what the difference is between rish and the names you listed. Are you just playing dumb to try to confuse the issue?

If we remove the assumption for the moment that rish is possible scum because of the alignment definer, then his inactivity would not be alignment indicative, because inactivity so rarely is alignment indicative. And indeed even when you take that factor into account, it's still not alignment indicative. Your argument only makes sense if we already believe rish is scum and then this serves to 'explain' his behavior, but this is circular, since it has not yet been established that rish is scum.

Would I like rish to contribute more? Of course, I'd like him and everyone else to contribute more. But since everything you have posted so far on D5 only makes you look a lot more like scum than you did before D5 started, you demanding that he be more active kind of looks like you saying that you want the pressure off you for a while because you haven't handled it well.

[degaston]

If we remove the assumption for the moment that rish is possible scum because of the alignment definer, then his inactivity would not be alignment indicative, because inactivity so rarely is alignment indicative. And indeed even when you take that factor into account, it's still not alignment indicative. Your argument only makes sense if we already believe rish is scum and then this serves to 'explain' his behavior, but this is circular, since it has not yet been established that rish is scum.

Fine. Then would you be so kind as to remove the assumption that I am possible scum because of the alignment definer, and see how much of a case you have against me?

If a cop identifies someone as scum, and that person then disappears from the thread, you don't say "If we just ignore the cop check, then his lack of activity doesn't really mean much." The fact is that Rish was identified as what is now a one out of two chance of being scum. You can't just wish that away and say that it does not have any bearing on how you read his actions after that. You can question the validity of benga's statement, or you can focus on me and rish, but to trot out a list of all the less active players who were not accused, and say "What about them? No one is pressuring them either. Are they scum?" is just plain stupid.

I don't think you really believe what you're saying. You're either tunneling so hard that you'll throw out any half-assed argument to try to discredit me, or you're scum and you already know that I'm town. I suspect the latter.

[AladdinSane]

I can't explain what Rage would have said if I had used the gun in some other way and it still hadn't worked.
The whole thing seems fairly unlikely to me, but I'm not sure that I can rule it out at this point. I haven't gone back over all the posts to see if anything disproves it.

I don't know how likely or unlikely teh hole ting is, awtho if I am rite about LSU TJ's invenchuns, it does look bad fer Benga.

I tink if you had used, say, teh kill opshun on teh gun and it dident werk, Ragian cood eesily have sed 'I made teh kill opshun inoperative (do nothing) in case you were scum' rather then wot he did say (i..e. 'I made teh kill opshun kill teh user, in case you were scum'). Teh Lincoln quote cood have backed up dis story too, sinse it was kinda vague. So, I dont tink dat is a problem fer teh thery.

[Metsfanmax]

If we remove the assumption for the moment that rish is possible scum because of the alignment definer, then his inactivity would not be alignment indicative, because inactivity so rarely is alignment indicative. And indeed even when you take that factor into account, it's still not alignment indicative. Your argument only makes sense if we already believe rish is scum and then this serves to 'explain' his behavior, but this is circular, since it has not yet been established that rish is scum.

Fine. Then would you be so kind as to remove the assumption that I am possible scum because of the alignment definer, and see how much of a case you have against me?

I have already admitted that I don't have much of a case against you other than the alignment definer. However I do trust the alignment definer so this is a pointless exercise. One of either you or rish is scum, in my estimation. I just don't know who, but I think maybe 65-35 that it's you.

If a cop identifies someone as scum, and that person then disappears from the thread, you don't say "If we just ignore the cop check, then his lack of activity doesn't really mean much."

I certainly do. I have never read alignment from activity level, and I'm not going to start now. It's just too mired up in the fact that sometimes people just don't have time for mafia, regardless of which side they are. As an example of why this is a bad idea, consider that rish going AWOL right now actually seems to look bad from many of your perspectives. So if he's scum and he wants to protect himself, you can argue that he'd get his ass in here and post more to guarantee that you get lynched first. I have no way to distinguish between that scenario and the one you are proposing, so I'm not going to try.

[degaston]

I agree that we need Rish in here. Lucky for him, the pace of the game has slowed way, way down. How do you know that he has posted elsewhere? Also, he did say that his computer was in the shop and on his computer are his notes. Maybe that's why he's not contributing? Anyway, we need him to talk.

Even if he lost his notes (and there's no proof of that), that's no excuse for only making one post in the past 11 days. Especially considering that he should be considered a possible lynch target today. He had access to a computer, and could read and comment on what's been going on. He's had time to comment on politics and video games, why not mafia?

Click image to enlarge.

[Ragian]

I agreed that we need him here...

[AladdinSane]

Insidently, Benga was teh wun who introduced teh "D5 Kills Start" post hedder. I'd still like to know wot he ment by dat, sinse we have been getting NKs on N1, N2, and N4 awreddy. I've asked a cupple times now. It's starting to look like teh qwestjun is been dodged...

[Metsfanmax]

Insidently, Benga was teh wun who introduced teh "D5 Kills Start" post hedder. I'd still like to know wot he ment by dat, sinse we have been getting NKs on N1, N2, and N4 awreddy. I've asked a cupple times now. It's starting to look like teh qwestjun is been dodged...

No one has bothered with this because it's a stupid question. Only mods and OPs can change thread titles. Benga didn't do anything with the thread header, he was just the first one to respond after the thread title was changed.

[degaston]

Insidently, Benga was teh wun who introduced teh "D5 Kills Start" post hedder. I'd still like to know wot he ment by dat, sinse we have been getting NKs on N1, N2, and N4 awreddy. I've asked a cupple times now. It's starting to look like teh qwestjun is been dodged...

No one has bothered with this because it's a stupid question. Only mods and OPs can change thread titles. Benga didn't do anything with the thread header, he was just the first one to respond after the thread title was changed.

You're absolutely right!

[degaston]

Insidently, Benga was teh wun who introduced teh "D5 Kills Start" post hedder. I'd still like to know wot he ment by dat, sinse we have been getting NKs on N1, N2, and N4 awreddy. I've asked a cupple times now. It's starting to look like teh qwestjun is been dodged...

No one has bothered with this because it's a stupid question. Only mods and OPs can change thread titles. Benga didn't do anything with the thread header, he was just the first one to respond after the thread title was changed.

You're absolutely right!

Just messing with you. I know that's just the post title, not the thread title, so don't get your panties in a bundle.

[AladdinSane]

No one has bothered with this because it's a stupid question. Only mods and OPs can change thread titles. Benga didn't do anything with the thread header, he was just the first one to respond after the thread title was changed.

fp'ed by Deg...dang not qwik enuff...but my qwestjuns dozent looks so stupid now, does it?

[Metsfanmax]

No one has bothered with this because it's a stupid question. Only mods and OPs can change thread titles. Benga didn't do anything with the thread header, he was just the first one to respond after the thread title was changed.

fp'ed by Deg...dang not qwik enuff...but my qwestjuns dozent looks so stupid now, does it?

Yes, it still looks stupid. I'm obviously perfectly aware that someone can change the subject line of their own post. The point is that benga didn't do that. Someone changed the actual thread title, and benga was the first to do a clean reply after that happened.

[/]

Hmm, I'm not certain about this little game of follow the (not) cop that we're playing at the moment. Specifically because it relies on luck and two degrees of trust.

Honestly, I might be a bit wary, but it is potentially three or more days we're wasting on this, days we cannot afford to waste.
I don't really have a ton of confidence in roles in this game, specifically with the theme of "surprise", as in "Surprise idiot, these roles betra your expectations at every turn!", the evidence for this of course being that PCM flipped as Mafia Mass Mason, which arguably doesn't make sense as a 'power' role, but rather as a 'look good then backstab everyone' role, 'cause surprise damnit!

I don't have enough reason to put full trust in Benga specifically, since being a cop with limit to only two guesses is mega easy to fake for scum. Plus there's the whole "anti-town doesn't mean scum" debacle with his one "confirmed" shot. Thus I'm not going to take a side on that yet.

Doing a full intensive reread ATM, I promise to have something good ASAP.

Can we please have a slight extension please mods?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Can we please have a slight extension please mods?

Denied