How much do you donate and volunteer annually?

[mrswdk]

Why should people work jobs they don't need, making products that nobody needs? It is the Western perspective that puts economic growth at the forefront of goals that is what I call schizophrenic.

Says the guy living in his comfortable house in Canada playing Risk on the internet.

The alternative is treating income as growth itself.

[rishaed]

Why should people work jobs they don't need, making products that nobody needs? It is the Western perspective that puts economic growth at the forefront of goals that is what I call schizophrenic.

Says the guy living in his comfortable house in Canada playing Risk on the internet.

The alternative is treating income as growth itself.

Hey that looks like Jim Carey with dyed red hair! (One more reason not to appreciate it.)

[WILLIAMS5232]

Yeah, okay Will. There's some bad apples in the basket so let's toss the whole basket in the trash. Got it.

well, i'm not throwing them in the trash. i'm just removing the crutch. get your analogies straight.

So basically, WILLIAMS' solution to getting homeless people out of homelessness is to refuse to give them money or jobs, because to do either of those things 'enables' them.

Ignoring them and then coming up with reasons like 'they're probably all lazy drug addicts' is weak. Why not just admit that you want to wash your hands of them, rather than pretending there is some sort of moral aspect to your indifference?

I never said don't give them jobs.
I also didn't say they were all lazy drug addicts. I said they are used to depending on people giving them money so they have no motivation to change.
I did admit that I washed my hands of them. but for you to say i'm pretending that I think it helps them because I don't want to give them money is wrong. i'm not pretending anything. in my early 20's I would give them money. and then I changed my view on the whole matter. like I said early in this thread. if I were going to help, it wouldn't be a "here's a 20 spot, I hope someone gives you another one tomorrow". I would give a box of matches, a bag of rice, a pot, and some salt and a fork. (or spoon). but I realize how much of a waste that would be if I gave a bum holding a sign that says "why lie.. I need a beer". all that. so I don't bother. mainly because duko has my back.

Far better to exterminate all Malus plants, and any mention of them.I don't understand your point at all William. Why should people work jobs they don't need, making products that nobody needs? It is the Western perspective that puts economic growth at the forefront of goals that is what I call schizophrenic.

jobs they don't need? I mean. I guess they could farm for their food. or become self sufficient. but if they are standing on a street corner pestering me for money, then they need a job if you ask me. or... they could actually create a product to sell that other people want/need. they could also go fish and sell the fish. which is very possible. in the fall you can pick up pecans to sell. actually brings in a nice penny for that. blackberries are also an easy alternative to trade for money vs. begging for it. a good three weeks of harvest there. right now. here in Houston mulberries grow wild. although not quite as desirable, still very possible to sell. tomatoes are very easy to grow and sell. as well as watermelons. a few cheap and easily obtainable hand tools can turn a common pallet into a multitude of desirable products. cattail shoots were used for years to make mats and baskets. which could be sold in any trade show. garage sale items are usually pretty cheap and possible to flip for a tidy profit.

[Lootifer]

Does putting on a smiling face for people I don't like count as volunteering?

[DoomYoshi]

Far better to exterminate all Malus plants, and any mention of them.I don't understand your point at all William. Why should people work jobs they don't need, making products that nobody needs? It is the Western perspective that puts economic growth at the forefront of goals that is what I call schizophrenic.

jobs they don't need? I mean. I guess they could farm for their food. or become self sufficient. but if they are standing on a street corner pestering me for money, then they need a job if you ask me. or... they could actually create a product to sell that other people want/need. they could also go fish and sell the fish. which is very possible. in the fall you can pick up pecans to sell. actually brings in a nice penny for that. blackberries are also an easy alternative to trade for money vs. begging for it. a good three weeks of harvest there. right now. here in Houston mulberries grow wild. although not quite as desirable, still very possible to sell. tomatoes are very easy to grow and sell. as well as watermelons. a few cheap and easily obtainable hand tools can turn a common pallet into a multitude of desirable products. cattail shoots were used for years to make mats and baskets. which could be sold in any trade show. garage sale items are usually pretty cheap and possible to flip for a tidy profit.

You are missing the point. We already waste so much. If instead of shredding the shoes they don't sell, Foot Locker gave them to charity, shoes would be a quarter of the price. We already produce way the f*ck more than even twice the population could need.

How many fish, pecans, blackberries, mulberries, tomatos and watermelons rot every year? Have you ever checked out a grocery store dumpster?

A proper system is an efficient system. Waste is an inefficiency. Imagine if German efficiency trumped American excess in the twentieth century.

[saxitoxin]

Does putting on a smiling face for people I don't like count as volunteering?

Are you talking about coitus? Lots of people fake it. I don't believe that counts as volunteering, but I'll let DoomYoshi decide.

[Phatscotty]

Why should people work jobs they don't need, making products that nobody needs? It is the Western perspective that puts economic growth at the forefront of goals that is what I call schizophrenic.

Yosh.... how can you say that, when it was shovel ready projects that saved us from the great depression?

I conclude it could only be racism.

[tzor]

Yosh.... how can you say that, when it was shovel ready projects that saved us from the great depression?

No it wasn't.

(Never the less, I find many of the buildings created by the WPA, the Lookout Inn in NJ and the the Key West Aquarium in Florida very nice and well worth the effort. But they didn't save us from the "depression." and in fact both happened before the "Depression within the Depression" from 1937-1939.)

On the other hand, at least we had "shovel ready" projects back then, we didn't have government to hold up the shovels.

[mrswdk]

On the other hand, at least we had "shovel ready" projects back then, we didn't have government to hold up the shovels.

Erm... what? Those Great Depression shovels you guys are talking about were paid for by the US government.

[tzor]

Erm... what? Those Great Depression shovels you guys are talking about were paid for by the US government.

"Hold up" as in "delay in the usage." You didn't have the EPA back then saying "You can't build an aquarium by the water without an environmental impact study." Instead you had the government hire an architect, get up the fastest blueprints they could make and start hiring the workers to build the structure.



This building took two years to build, from 1932-1934.



Took less than a year to build in 1937.

[mrswdk]

Erm... what? Those Great Depression shovels you guys are talking about were paid for by the US government.

"Hold up" as in "delay in the usage." You didn't have the EPA back then saying "You can't build an aquarium by the water without an environmental impact study." Instead you had the government hire an architect, get up the fastest blueprints they could make and start hiring the workers to build the structure.

Ah, I got you.

This building took two years to build, from 1932-1934.

Sounds like the government was holding up your shovels even back then

I was reading that other day about a 50-storey apartment block in Changsha that's just been built in 19 days, start to finish.

[WILLIAMS5232]

Erm... what? Those Great Depression shovels you guys are talking about were paid for by the US government.

"Hold up" as in "delay in the usage." You didn't have the EPA back then saying "You can't build an aquarium by the water without an environmental impact study." Instead you had the government hire an architect, get up the fastest blueprints they could make and start hiring the workers to build the structure.

Ah, I got you.

This building took two years to build, from 1932-1934.

Sounds like the government was holding up your shovels even back then

I was reading that other day about a 50-storey apartment block in Changsha that's just been built in 19 days, start to finish.

i'll bet the rent is pretty affordable.

[waauw]

I don't like sticking a number on it. I donate quite irregularly and it's mostly to wikipedia really.

[tzor]

Sounds like the government was holding up your shovels even back then

Not really, it's an aquarium, that required a number of things, cutting into the keystone bedrock to make the outdoor pens. Building with concrete where natural water was in short supply (sea water was used in the concrete). And design of the many glass tanks that would hold up to the pressure of a lot of water. So it was a major undertaking and work was being done all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if a major storm or two had interrupted the process at any one point, but the biggest problem only happened after it opened when the overseas railroad was effectively killed after a major hurricane struck the keys.

[mrswdk]

Sounds like the government was holding up your shovels even back then

Not really, it's an aquarium, that required a number of things, cutting into the keystone bedrock to make the outdoor pens. Building with concrete where natural water was in short supply (sea water was used in the concrete). And design of the many glass tanks that would hold up to the pressure of a lot of water. So it was a major undertaking and work was being done all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if a major storm or two had interrupted the process at any one point, but the biggest problem only happened after it opened when the overseas railroad was effectively killed after a major hurricane struck the keys.

I dunno dude. Build that same thing in China and I bet it'd be finished within about 6 weeks.

[tzor]

I dunno dude. Build that same thing in China and I bet it'd be finished within about 6 weeks.

Don't you think a different location and a different tech level would not result in a different timeline.

Now if you are an expert on working on coral formations in remote locations in China in the early 1930's. We can properly compare an apple and an apple.

[Fewnix]

Great discussion!!!!1



Cc'ers who have some serious disagreements about some serious issues are having an intelligent, robust strong debate.
COOL!!




My take: We are taught to look at those who have taken hits, been damaged, living lives of poverty and misery and suffering as at many times, at fault, being deserving of poverty and misery and suffering. I submit few are that way willingly and would, if they could, find a better way.

Option A: Live life of poverty, misery and sufferring
Option B : A better way

How do you think the vote would go?


p.s. I was brought up somewhere along the lines of: " There but for the grace of God, go I." and 'most of us are one heart attack away from a food bank". How do you like your odds?

[tkr4lf]

I don't give full credit for 'depression' as a real reason, since it can so easily be influenced by perception and education and secularism.

[tkr4lf]

I don't give full credit for 'depression' as a real reason, since it can so easily be influenced by perception and education and secularism.

[Funkyterrance]

Aside from volunteering my body to saxi's huge, veiny, liver spotted craniums's every whim, I volunteer at least ten hours a year to local charities. If that means jumping out of my vehicle and working alongside the local, soaking wet, teenage girls at the high school car wash fundraiser, so be it. I'm that dedicated!

[2dimes]

Pics!

[notyou2]

I kill the cats and dogs at the local shelter for free on weekends.

I had the weirdest dream last night with notyou2. This is the only time I've ever dreamed about someone on CC. Maybe this should be a thread of its own.

Anyway, notyou2 had a 25-foot Boston Whaler and asked if I wanted to take it with him to Hawaii. I said "sure," so we started out to Hawaii, and a couple hours later were close to the Big Island. However, in our way there were whitewater rapids and notyou2 said he didn't think we'd be able to make it through the rapids to get to Hawaii and he'd have to turn around and go back to the mainland. Except he made a wrong turn and we started to head straight into the rapids. Notyou2 said to hang on that we were going to push through them. So I put my life jacket on and notyou2 gunned it. Then I woke up.

I was in that dream too. Weird.

[tzor]

I did a barbershop "octet" (that's a double quartet) this morning for our director's church service. After the service I had to go from the south shore of Long Island to the North Shore to pick up my wine club bottles. My waze GPS on my phone directed me to one of the many circles, where the local firefighters had set up a "boot drive." The only bills I had at the time was a $20. Lucky them, they got one.

Of course the live music wasn't playing at the Vineyard so I went to a place that specializes in Rose. Then I went to another vineyard and finally to a local spirits place where I had a local gin and tonic while listening to a wonderful three member band.



P.S. In keeping with this topic, I should point out that other than a cup of coffee, a deviled egg and a hot dog, I got nothing for the performance at the church.

[Symmetry]

I kill the cats and dogs at the local shelter for free on weekends.

I had the weirdest dream last night with notyou2. This is the only time I've ever dreamed about someone on CC. Maybe this should be a thread of its own.

Anyway, notyou2 had a 25-foot Boston Whaler and asked if I wanted to take it with him to Hawaii. I said "sure," so we started out to Hawaii, and a couple hours later were close to the Big Island. However, in our way there were whitewater rapids and notyou2 said he didn't think we'd be able to make it through the rapids to get to Hawaii and he'd have to turn around and go back to the mainland. Except he made a wrong turn and we started to head straight into the rapids. Notyou2 said to hang on that we were going to push through them. So I put my life jacket on and notyou2 gunned it. Then I woke up.

I was in that dream too. Weird.

If that's a Catch-22 reference, well done. If not, carry on.