Indigo League Mafia/RPG Final Scene

[BuJaber]

unvote

f*ck sake, BuJ. I was told that I did not need to understand any Pokemon flavour in order to play this game. If we could please debate this without the flavour. I want to know how Doom works. Because if he can kill whomever he desires every night, I think that makes him a huge arse liability. I don't trust his judgement at all. So while in a flavour universe he might be a Pokemon savior (or whatever), in this game of mafia he seems a trigger-happy renegade.

Now, I agree that I don't like all the ones I'm voting with, but surely you'd have to agree that Doom hasn't been too town-prone throughout this game. As it is right now (or at least till I have confirmation of how Doom's role works), I have no problem voting for him again. I don't want to die N2 due to Doom thinking I'm buddying too much with dakky. (That's what got Serbia killed, right?)

I'm not sure where the question is.. are you asking if I agree that Doom hasn't been town-prone? Well honestly, I feel that he wasn't playing one way or the other. He wasn't very forthcoming with some of his opinions/his identity.. which is fine, because we all know how dangerous that can be. However I felt that I can trust him. At least in the sense that I don't consider him an enemy. That's why on more than 1 occasion I was asking him questions. My first read was that he is a town trainer like Masket.
Also just to clarify - What I was saying about gary and Mewtwo is not flavor, it's related to this game. I'm not familiar enough with the story to know how they feel about each in it.

Dakky - Yes he is like an SK, but as far as we can tell he can only kill 1 person per night. He claims to be anti-trainer (including Team Rocket), and honestly that is believable, because of what you said about Gary's WC. That means that there's no reason for him to target WP on purpose. So he might get it wrong and kill me, yes, but the other WP can kill me, and so can TR. It's a risk keeping him alive, but it's better than using our lynch on someone we are almost sure is not TR.

People are already beginning to suggest that WP stick together with Night actions. Unfortunately we can't trust that everyone does so, but it really is a good idea to try to minimize the deaths. If we do this successfully, we can guarantee to stay alive for several more days, and so can put off lynching Doom until we at least lynch James. That is how I see it for now. My opinion could change if we lose too many people along the way.

[Anarkistsdream]

unvote

f*ck sake, BuJ. I was told that I did not need to understand any Pokemon flavour in order to play this game. If we could please debate this without the flavour. I want to know how Doom works. Because if he can kill whomever he desires every night, I think that makes him a huge arse liability. I don't trust his judgement at all. So while in a flavour universe he might be a Pokemon savior (or whatever), in this game of mafia he seems a trigger-happy renegade.

Now, I agree that I don't like all the ones I'm voting with, but surely you'd have to agree that Doom hasn't been too town-prone throughout this game. As it is right now (or at least till I have confirmation of how Doom's role works), I have no problem voting for him again. I don't want to die N2 due to Doom thinking I'm buddying too much with dakky. (That's what got Serbia killed, right?)

I'm not sure where the question is.. are you asking if I agree that Doom hasn't been town-prone? Well honestly, I feel that he wasn't playing one way or the other. He wasn't very forthcoming with some of his opinions/his identity.. which is fine, because we all know how dangerous that can be. However I felt that I can trust him. At least in the sense that I don't consider him an enemy. That's why on more than 1 occasion I was asking him questions. My first read was that he is a town trainer like Masket.
Also just to clarify - What I was saying about gary and Mewtwo is not flavor, it's related to this game. I'm not familiar enough with the story to know how they feel about each in it.

Dakky - Yes he is like an SK, but as far as we can tell he can only kill 1 person per night. He claims to be anti-trainer (including Team Rocket), and honestly that is believable, because of what you said about Gary's WC. That means that there's no reason for him to target WP on purpose. So he might get it wrong and kill me, yes, but the other WP can kill me, and so can TR. It's a risk keeping him alive, but it's better than using our lynch on someone we are almost sure is not TR.

People are already beginning to suggest that WP stick together with Night actions. Unfortunately we can't trust that everyone does so, but it really is a good idea to try to minimize the deaths. If we do this successfully, we can guarantee to stay alive for several more days, and so can put off lynching Doom until we at least lynch James. That is how I see it for now. My opinion could change if we lose too many people along the way.

Agreed on every point.

[Ragian]

Ragian unvoted, though in red not in blue.

f*ck me, yes. Am in another game too. Forgot about the blue shit...

unvote

[Ragian]

On phone. Sorry for double post.

@BuJ, I'm asking (Doom) how his role works, so we can debate that.

[mandalorian2298]

Vote Count

Mitch (1) - Exile,

legionnare (1) - DoomYoshi

Ragian (1) - Strike

Hotshot (2) - BuJaber, Samlen

DoomYoshi (7) - dakky, legionnare, Kwan, Hotshot, Nagerous, Mitch, Exile

Dakky (1) - Anark


With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

[Samlen]

I think Doom is grasping at straws, he would have been hung if not for Strikes mistake,(or was it ?) I think you remembered that WCG was pressured into attacking other pokemons and you thought I can say the same thing, You made a couple of mistakes 1 ,you said that you are not being forced ,2 that you are indeed Mewtwo, 3 that you are a wild pokemon, Which is it? it can't be both

2 and 3 are the same thing. I am the ultimate wild pokemon because I am uncapturable. I'm just not a vanilla wild pokemon.

I'm thinking nagerous for Gary. I'm willing to hit Samlen tonight if the town would prefer a possible TR candidate. For the record, it's not a one-hit kill, I just do a metric ton of damage because I'm at a high level.

You say I'm a potential TR candidate but where is your evidence? If you are for us WP then you need to use as much logic and careful thinking as possible to avoid being a hindrance. I see no evidence of you providing any logic towards your actions. If you really are anti-trainer, why did you go after serbia instead of minister last night? You are simply a loose cannon at this point and are more detrimental to us than you are helpful. Instead of letting you kill 2-3 or even more likely innocent people, I'm going to Vote Doomyoshi.

[The1exile]

Go f*ck your self exile, you have no problem hammering someone but if I do it I am scum, you are my target tonight asshole

There's a world of difference in our approaches though. Someone EXPLICITLY SAID right above you that they were voting to put someone at L-1 IN ORDER TO GET MORE INFORMATION and then you attempted to hammer them. If you are town, then you are a spectacularly ineffective member, and you get no credit for dakky saying you are always this worthless.

[nagerous]

I think Doom is grasping at straws, he would have been hung if not for Strikes mistake,(or was it ?) I think you remembered that WCG was pressured into attacking other pokemons and you thought I can say the same thing, You made a couple of mistakes 1 ,you said that you are not being forced ,2 that you are indeed Mewtwo, 3 that you are a wild pokemon, Which is it? it can't be both

2 and 3 are the same thing. I am the ultimate wild pokemon because I am uncapturable. I'm just not a vanilla wild pokemon.

I'm thinking nagerous for Gary. I'm willing to hit Samlen tonight if the town would prefer a possible TR candidate. For the record, it's not a one-hit kill, I just do a metric ton of damage because I'm at a high level.

I am 100% not Gary FYI

[nagerous]

unvote

f*ck sake, BuJ. I was told that I did not need to understand any Pokemon flavour in order to play this game. If we could please debate this without the flavour. I want to know how Doom works. Because if he can kill whomever he desires every night, I think that makes him a huge arse liability. I don't trust his judgement at all. So while in a flavour universe he might be a Pokemon savior (or whatever), in this game of mafia he seems a trigger-happy renegade.

Now, I agree that I don't like all the ones I'm voting with, but surely you'd have to agree that Doom hasn't been too town-prone throughout this game. As it is right now (or at least till I have confirmation of how Doom's role works), I have no problem voting for him again. I don't want to die N2 due to Doom thinking I'm buddying too much with dakky. (That's what got Serbia killed, right?)

Please stop hiding behind the I do not know any flavour I do not know anything about Pokemon excuse.

There is nothing extra really to know beyond what has been discussed the rest can all be found on Wikipedia.

BuJaber is completely wrong in his points, we cannot actually rule out that Mewtwo isn't a team rocket Pokemon, going by kwanton's theory on the set up a three man Team Rocket does seem pretty weak so why not give them an overpowered Mewtwo aligned to them. As I reiterated before we know that Mewtwo has had TR origins even if he did go rogue - this can all be found on Wikipedia.

However the fundamental point is Mewtwo is an evil Pokemon, I understand pressing doom for more information is helpful from the town's perspective but I just can't equate with Bu's comments that it is useful to keep him around, we already know that Doom killed Serbia for no justifiable reason, he has also been caught in a lie saying he is a wild Pokemon when he isnt' as he isn't one of the five specified types. I just can't logically understand why Bu would want to keep him alive when at best Doom is an unaligned third party with questionable allegiances and at worst he is fully associated with TR.

[nagerous]

Mewtwo would have been a suicidal claim anyway since there is no mention of Psychic pokemon. I wonder if he is treated as a pokemon or a trainer. Did he recruit Poliwag?

Suicidal indeed as you put it yourself but of course BuJaber somehow is falling for your pro town hero spin.

[dakky21]

Please stop hiding behind the I do not know any flavour I do not know anything about Pokemon excuse.

I agree. Everyone behind "I don't understand how Pokemon work" is hiding something. I don't know a lot about Pokemon but really, everything is on the web, just Google it up...

[Anarkistsdream]

Please stop hiding behind the I do not know any flavour I do not know anything about Pokemon excuse.

I agree. Everyone behind "I don't understand how Pokemon work" is hiding something. I don't know a lot about Pokemon but really, everything is on the web, just Google it up...

No...





Simply put, I asked and was told I would have to do no research....

You are horrible at finding scum, which means you are scum or just dumb... Enjoy your lynch....


VOTE DAKKY, GUYS.... HAVE I BEEN WRONG WITH THE LYNCHES?

[Skittles!]

Please stop hiding behind the I do not know any flavour I do not know anything about Pokemon excuse.

I agree. Everyone behind "I don't understand how Pokemon work" is hiding something. I don't know a lot about Pokemon but really, everything is on the web, just Google it up...

No...





Simply put, I asked and was told I would have to do no research....

You are horrible at finding scum, which means you are scum or just dumb... Enjoy your lynch....


VOTE DAKKY, GUYS.... HAVE I BEEN WRONG WITH THE LYNCHES?

Do you have a half-decent argument to push for the Dakky vote, rather than just insulting people constantly?

These are the events as I see and understand it:

- Dakky claims Gary-faction aligned Pokemon
- Gary (whoever that is) and Dakky claim to try to catch Yoshi in Night 1, fails
- Dakky starts Day 2 going after BuJ, changes tactic
- Dakky pushes votes onto Yoshi, causing Yoshi to roleplay and claim Mewtwo
- Yoshi wants to know who Gary is, probably so he can try and win (I imagine his WC is eliminate trainers, TR)
- Case against Dakky is??? He's not wild pokemon anymore but still wants to eliminate TR and maybe Mewtwo?
- Most other wild pokemon don't give a shit about Mewtwo, thinks he is evil/part of TR due to First Pokemon Movie
- Yoshi believes Legionnaire is scum (I also semi believe this)

Have I got that correct?

Also Nark, there has been one (1) lynch so far.

[Ragian]

Please stop hiding behind the I do not know any flavour I do not know anything about Pokemon excuse.

There is nothing extra really to know beyond what has been discussed the rest can all be found on Wikipedia.

BuJaber is completely wrong in his points, we cannot actually rule out that Mewtwo isn't a team rocket Pokemon, going by kwanton's theory on the set up a three man Team Rocket does seem pretty weak so why not give them an overpowered Mewtwo aligned to them. As I reiterated before we know that Mewtwo has had TR origins even if he did go rogue - this can all be found on Wikipedia.

However the fundamental point is Mewtwo is an evil Pokemon, I understand pressing doom for more information is helpful from the town's perspective but I just can't equate with Bu's comments that it is useful to keep him around, we already know that Doom killed Serbia for no justifiable reason, he has also been caught in a lie saying he is a wild Pokemon when he isnt' as he isn't one of the five specified types. I just can't logically understand why Bu would want to keep him alive when at best Doom is an unaligned third party with questionable allegiances and at worst he is fully associated with TR.

You're using "theory" wrongly. You're looking for the word "hypothesis".

I'm not hiding behind anything. I'm telling you facts. You're the one hiding behind, "Uhh, this might be the setup or this might be." I'm looking at what we've got. I see a vigilante role that no one can feel safe from. I want to discuss that rather than who this MewTwo is in a film or a cartoon or whatever.

As mentioned, I asked before joining this game if knowledge of Pokemon was required. I was told no. You won't get me to go to wikipedia to research a bunch of things. I look for scummy behaviour. Right now, I want Doom to explain his role.

[madmitch]

Go f*ck your self exile, you have no problem hammering someone but if I do it I am scum, you are my target tonight asshole

There's a world of difference in our approaches though. Someone EXPLICITLY SAID right above you that they were voting to put someone at L-1 IN ORDER TO GET MORE INFORMATION and then you attempted to hammer them. If you are town, then you are a spectacularly ineffective member, and you get no credit for dakky saying you are always this worthless.

You are right and I apologize for my outburst, bad day, I actually did not see that line and thought Doom was not as scummy as some others,but the bible quotes fucked me up and made me think we better get rid of this guy, he has lost it,I am sticking where I am at for a while but might be persuaded to switch to either Legion or Dakky

[BuJaber]

1) As far as we know Doom has only killed one wild pokemon incorrectly. He had a reason for it, he picked up on something that he thought might be scummy. Personally I was on the fence about Serbia's alignment, and I could see someone suspecting him of being TR. Also dakky was definitely scummy during day 1 and so in Doom's eyes' Serbia was buddying up to him. That's a valid reason, whether the result was good or bad.

2) If Mewtwo is TR then the mystery pokemon dakky keeps referring to would have to be something else. Do you really think that is a possibility?

3) Assuming he's unaligned 3rd party: Like I said repeatedly, my insistence on postponing his lynch has nothing to do with Doom himself being WP or not. I simply don't want to kill anyone except TR if I can help it. According to my WP, I don't need to kill a mystery pokemon, I only need TR dead. Meaning he's not a direct enemy. Is he a potential danger? Yes, and so is everybody else. He just has a more powerful attack, which means he can probably kill each of us with one hit. We're all survivors anyway, we won't all live. I don't see any logical reason that he will go after WP on purpose.
He has almost guaranteed to us that he is Mewtwo. That means there is no danger of a mislynch, we can lynch him when we want to lynch mewtwo. We just need to choose the correct time for it. And this is not the correct time.

The fact that you suspect TR has more than 3 members makes it an even bigger mistake to lynch someone who isn't TR now. I think we should try to get him to night-kill mitch.

4) My "hero of WP" comment was because he sacrificed his identity to reveal a few potential TR members who bandwagoned. Maybe he didn't do it intentionally, but that is what happened.

5) Doom: Nagerous is not Gary. At least I really really really doubt he is.

Doom if I somehow convince people to hold off your lynch, please target Mitch. They won't keep you alive for long anyway, might as well do something helpful.
As for the lynch I'm still on Hotshot, but can vote for legion or samlen.

[Ragian]

While I agree that we should defo target TR any chance we have, I'm less keen on a trigger happy vig. However, looking at who's voting Doom makes me somewhat iffy now that Legion, Hotshot, and Samlen are on that train. On the third hand (for you aliens out there), we know for sure what we get hitting Doom. Let's say we hit Legion (who has one vote as opposed to Hotshot and Samlen), apart from his weird outburst at receiving one vote, what speaks for him being TR scum?

[DoomYoshi]

I think Doom is grasping at straws, he would have been hung if not for Strikes mistake,(or was it ?) I think you remembered that WCG was pressured into attacking other pokemons and you thought I can say the same thing, You made a couple of mistakes 1 ,you said that you are not being forced ,2 that you are indeed Mewtwo, 3 that you are a wild pokemon, Which is it? it can't be both

2 and 3 are the same thing. I am the ultimate wild pokemon because I am uncapturable. I'm just not a vanilla wild pokemon.

I'm thinking nagerous for Gary. I'm willing to hit Samlen tonight if the town would prefer a possible TR candidate. For the record, it's not a one-hit kill, I just do a metric ton of damage because I'm at a high level.

You say I'm a potential TR candidate but where is your evidence? If you are for us WP then you need to use as much logic and careful thinking as possible to avoid being a hindrance. I see no evidence of you providing any logic towards your actions. If you really are anti-trainer, why did you go after serbia instead of minister last night? You are simply a loose cannon at this point and are more detrimental to us than you are helpful. Instead of letting you kill 2-3 or even more likely innocent people, I'm going to Vote Doomyoshi.

You are the one who hit Minister Masket. I was sure he was scummy enough to not bother wasting a target opportunity.

While I agree that we should defo target TR any chance we have, I'm less keen on a trigger happy vig. However, looking at who's voting Doom makes me somewhat iffy now that Legion, Hotshot, and Samlen are on that train. On the third hand (for you aliens out there), we know for sure what we get hitting Doom. Let's say we hit Legion (who has one vote as opposed to Hotshot and Samlen), apart from his weird outburst at receiving one vote, what speaks for him being TR scum?

Name a player who isn't a vig.

Please stop hiding behind the I do not know any flavour I do not know anything about Pokemon excuse.

I agree. Everyone behind "I don't understand how Pokemon work" is hiding something. I don't know a lot about Pokemon but really, everything is on the web, just Google it up...

No...





Simply put, I asked and was told I would have to do no research....

You are horrible at finding scum, which means you are scum or just dumb... Enjoy your lynch....


VOTE DAKKY, GUYS.... HAVE I BEEN WRONG WITH THE LYNCHES?

Do you have a half-decent argument to push for the Dakky vote, rather than just insulting people constantly?

These are the events as I see and understand it:

- Dakky claims Gary-faction aligned Pokemon
- Gary (whoever that is) and Dakky claim to try to catch Yoshi in Night 1, fails
- Dakky starts Day 2 going after BuJ, changes tactic
- Dakky pushes votes onto Yoshi, causing Yoshi to roleplay and claim Mewtwo
- Yoshi wants to know who Gary is, probably so he can try and win (I imagine his WC is eliminate trainers, TR)
- Case against Dakky is??? He's not wild pokemon anymore but still wants to eliminate TR and maybe Mewtwo?
- Most other wild pokemon don't give a shit about Mewtwo, thinks he is evil/part of TR due to First Pokemon Movie
- Yoshi believes Legionnaire is scum (I also semi believe this)

Have I got that correct?

Also Nark, there has been one (1) lynch so far.

This seems entirely correct, except my roleplaying started day 1 and my tune has been since day 1 the same. Trainers are scum; throwing Pokeballs is scum. I am not OK with it.



Here is a list of people I'm not willing to vote at this point in time:
[list=][*]BuJaber
[*]Ragian
[*]Skittles
[*]kwanton
[*]Anarkist
[/list]

strike wolf, Talapus and Hotshot are all posting too little for me to know.

[Ragian]

Well...right...WPs, of course, function as vigs. You just have the ability to kill whoever, right? Please indulge me in understanding your role. You target whoever and said person dies?

[legionnare]

Something that has been sticking in my craw for a wee while is the bolded part of a post from Yoshi below:

A few other notes in response to earlier questions:

nag - whips appeared in the scene and I thought it was vine whip; Poliwag had purple glow, making me think of Mewtwo recruit

going after mitch in the night is pointless because, whether scum or town, he will hang himself if you give the game long enough

Over the last few days, my perspective has changed on a lot of players. It's amazing what you can notice when you just read the game. I think legion is TR.

unvote vote legion

If you are MewTwo then how could you make the mistake of thinking that it was Poliwag with the purple glowing eyes?
As much as I am pretty much certain that Doom is MewTwo, this makes me doubt a little.

Either way though I think that Doom is the sensible lynch.
On the one hand he is MewTwo and is the most dangerous player here, even though WP WinCon doesn't say anything other than survive and eliminate TR, so unless he willing to let the group decide his night actions (an unlikely event) he is too dangerous to keep around. Also Doom, you stated that Trainers "ruin the game" for other people as they take away their freedom to choose actions, how are you any different if you can mind control someone into doing something they don't want to do? At least in a trainer/pokemon pairing there is night conversations about what to do (assuming this from Dakky's posts).
On the other hand Doom is lying about his claim and taking advantage of the fact that their is a MewTwo in the game and is unlikely to reveal themselves with a counter claim. The only reason I can see Doom doing this is if he is TR trying to put a Townish spin on the MewTwo role and escape a lynch.

As for my shoddy post/vote on Doom, looking back on it with sober eyes, yeah it doesn't make me look too good. I would like to give a couple of reasons if I may?
1)It being New Year and me being Scottish means that I have been drunk on whisky for most of the last week and Doom shite post/vote on me just pissed me off enough for me to fire out an OMGUS without thinking
2)I told you all a wee while back that I would be hunting for Serbia's killer and therefore looking for who could be MewTwo, et voila, I had a gut feeling about it being Doom but just couldn't seem to get the wording together to make a convincing argument of it
3)Now that he has claimed, despite my slight doubt, I feel my vote is justified

[BuJaber]

Fine maybe legionnare is not scum, I just disagree with him.

Ragian - Doom claimed earlier that he doesn't have a one-hit KO, but since his attack is very high, it sort of functions as a one-hit KO. Not sure where you're going with the questions. At this point you can either be for the lynch or against it. I admit maybe my case on Hotshot doesn't have a lot of evidence to support it, but he has become somewhat of an expert at scumarining. Lack of substantial posting in itself(while subjective) is the reason why I'm voting for him, in addition to avoiding both fircoal & mitch wagons on day 1, and joining the wagon on Doom on day 2. If you don't agree then I would like to ask where your vote will go if it isn't going on Doom.

So many people voted for mitch on day 1 that he seems to be the only viable substitute lynch. That wouldn't be ideal, but better than lynching DoomYoshi.

[kwanton]

Look I'll admit that this is completely based on flavor, but I just cannot believe mewtwo is a good guy. And the only way to verify if he is, Dakky made clear he wasn't down with.

If doom is telling the truth and he can free captured Pokémon, yeah that's pretty strong. But we got a TR charmer, TR Pokémon, and a trainer night 1 so I'm feeling pretty confident with or without him. Do we really need him at this point? Is it worth the risk of him lying about the whole thing?

[strike wolf]

Fine maybe legionnare is not scum, I just disagree with him.

Ragian - Doom claimed earlier that he doesn't have a one-hit KO, but since his attack is very high, it sort of functions as a one-hit KO. Not sure where you're going with the questions. At this point you can either be for the lynch or against it. I admit maybe my case on Hotshot doesn't have a lot of evidence to support it, but he has become somewhat of an expert at scumarining. Lack of substantial posting in itself(while subjective) is the reason why I'm voting for him, in addition to avoiding both fircoal & mitch wagons on day 1, and joining the wagon on Doom on day 2. If you don't agree then I would like to ask where your vote will go if it isn't going on Doom.

So many people voted for mitch on day 1 that he seems to be the only viable substitute lynch. That wouldn't be ideal, but better than lynching DoomYoshi.

Probably hotshot. Though I wouldn't rule you out for seeming too interested in keeping Mewtwo alive and I'm still not convinced on Ragian but it's a wasted vote at this point.

The Mewtwo case is more complex than you give it credit for. Mewtwo isn't just an extra kill, he is an extra faction and factions prolong the game and cause more nights where more WPs might be killed. HOWEVER, what people fail to realize is that pretty much all remaining trainers (and possibly some WPs) are going to attack him tonight, even at the risk of being predictable, they have to. He's in their win con to eliminate. Even if Gary and other possible town sided trainers wanted to try to catch him, they can't risk TR catching him instead (if it's even possible to catch him).

simple answer if Buj is right about anything, it's that Mewtwo is extremely unlikely to be TR at this point. So he shouldn't be any WPs first choice of lynch.

[Ragian]

@BuJ, I'm willing to look at Samlen, Legion, and hotshot (just off the top of my head). They have all rubbed me the wrong way during the game. I just don't KNOW. I do know, however, what lynching Doom brings. Also, you're right. Doom said that he attacks like other WPs only stronger. Sorry. It's just that there's a chance, as someone mentioned, that he lied about the whole ting.

Looking through the list of players, I like the following (alphabetically): Anarkist, BuJ, dakky, kwanton, Nag, Strike
Looking through the list of players, I'm iffy about the following (alphabetically): Doom, Hotshot, Legion, Samlen
Looking through the list of players, I'm unsure about the following (alphabetically): mets, Mitch, newguy, skittles, Tala, The1exile

I'm listening...

[strike wolf]

unvote meant to in my last post.