INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[ZaBeast]

Blacky is not a healer. He would have said as much. Chap is not a healer. He would have said as much. TX must be the healer. Therefore - and I have the mod's word here - one of Blacky and Chap is scum. Moreover, TX is town.

In your initial claim you said you know how many scum there were between the 3 you targeted. How do you know TX is town and the scum is one of the other 2?

[Ragian]

2 points...
1, I’m glad you investigated me, I am confident that anyone investigating me will find me to be town. although I’m disappointed you had a scum in the mix so I have not actually been cleared.

2. Slightly confused where you say you targeted me but the result was random!
Which was it? A targeted investigation or a random pick?

1) Okay.
2) I actively picked you, but due to whatever transpired last night, I got thrown onto random players. By accident, you were both in my original pick and in the random thingie.

Blacky is not a healer. He would have said as much. Chap is not a healer. He would have said as much. TX must be the healer. Therefore - and I have the mod's word here - one of Blacky and Chap is scum. Moreover, TX is town.

In your initial claim you said you know how many scum there were between the 3 you targeted. How do you know TX is town and the scum is one of the other 2?

I asked how I were to interpret the wording of my role ability. Mod replied that since there was a healer in the mix, I investigated the two others (I presume this means the healer isn't scum, but I can't know), and between the two others, there is one scum.

[strike wolf]

My role PM didn't specifically mention being redirected. Just that I was out and saw the chum and sharks (presumably) and went for cover. There I saw someone poisoned and healed them. I had targeted myself last night so I had assumed that it could just a weird wording for healing myself (I've yet to have two nights with the same feedback from the mod) but with Buj healed it seems I was redirected to target him or busdriven.

Weird,

Our abilities are slightly different. Last night I chose to protect myself. I have to choose to Protect OR Heal.

I guess your abilities are folded into one. You target someone and they are either protected or healed. Is that correct?

yea. That's what I've said a few times.

[strike wolf]

@Chap: You said something about redirecting people to me?

[TX AG 90]

My role PM didn't specifically mention being redirected. Just that I was out and saw the chum and sharks (presumably) and went for cover. There I saw someone poisoned and healed them. I had targeted myself last night so I had assumed that it could just a weird wording for healing myself (I've yet to have two nights with the same feedback from the mod) but with Buj healed it seems I was redirected to target him or busdriven.

Weird,

Our abilities are slightly different. Last night I chose to protect myself. I have to choose to Protect OR Heal.

I guess your abilities are folded into one. You target someone and they are either protected or healed. Is that correct?

yea. That's what I've said a few times.

Ok, I didn't understand what you were saying before. Takes me awhile.

[TX AG 90]

Where's Sirius hiding?

[TX AG 90]

OK,

If Ragian is to believed, we have a 50% chance at lynching scum.

If Chap is to be believed, there are more scum in Group B than A.

Blacky is in both groups.

Are BOTH Chap and Ragian believable? If so, then the choice is obvious.

[chapcrap]

My role PM didn't specifically mention being redirected. Just that I was out and saw the chum and sharks (presumably) and went for cover. There I saw someone poisoned and healed them. I had targeted myself last night so I had assumed that it could just a weird wording for healing myself (I've yet to have two nights with the same feedback from the mod) but with Buj healed it seems I was redirected to target him or busdriven.

@Chap: You said something about redirecting people to me?

My action included you. So, your healing action was bussed to someone else last night. I didn't get to pick you. It was random.

A question for you (and anyone else). Do you think Tobi's role come up as scum in an investigation? I think the answer is no.

Well I nominated blacky and blacky refused to add more to his claim.

And I told everyone that the day start message from the mod literally tells everyone that they were not able to choose their target, this has been confirmed by several players already who stated they ended up at someone other than who they targetted, including me. But blacky still seems to think they targetted skoffin and I don't know if that's him telling us he got confirmation from the mod that it was skoffin who wasn't his target, or if he's claiming he targetted skoffin and ended up actually targetting skoffin.

He also didn't full claim everything including actions of all nights in one clear post which is the whole point of Pika's exercise.

So what is the next step?

Well, one of TX, Chap, and blacky is a healer, and between the two or three (pending mod confirmation on semantics), there is scum per my night action. I'll explain later when at a computer. But this could be what's next. I'd say that TX is the healer, so that scum would be between Chap and Blacky (or both), but I need the mod to reply to me first.

I'm not a healer or scum. TX claims healer and blacky doesn't. So, that is sorted out. I suppose either of them could be scum. Mafia healer isn't normal. So, I would say blacky is scum if Ragian is to be believed.

OK,

If Ragian is to believed, we have a 50% chance at lynching scum.

If Chap is to be believed, there are more scum in Group B than A.

Blacky is in both groups.

Are BOTH Chap and Ragian believable? If so, then the choice is obvious.

To be clear, I was assuming that group B had more scum. There was only one scum in Group A. That's all I really knew. I assumed that group B had a few because I would think that there are 4-5 scum.

[Ragian]

First of all, I don't think that we'd have 5 scum when Tobi is a traitor. When I played that role, I had the opportunity to switch alignment. If that's the case here, 5 scum would be too much. However, that's just conjecture.

Well, chap, either you or blacky is scum. Only you two know which one it is and neither of you is voting for the other. I find that a bit weird. Unless, of course, you think I'm scum, but it seems that you haven't thought so throughout the game...

[blacky365]

First of all, I don't think that we'd have 5 scum when Tobi is a traitor. When I played that role, I had the opportunity to switch alignment. If that's the case here, 5 scum would be too much. However, that's just conjecture.

Well, chap, either you or blacky is scum. Only you two know which one it is and neither of you is voting for the other. I find that a bit weird. Unless, of course, you think I'm scum, but it seems that you haven't thought so throughout the game...

You are right that if I were to follow your night results then chap is the scum.
The reason I have not voted is because when I placed my vote earlier in this day I was shouted down, so I thought i would keep this info in mind for the time being.

Also, despite your revelations, I am not sure if it is automatic that the everyone else will jump on board and join a lynch train, so I would wait to see what is being said.

[Pikanchion]

Where's Sirius hiding?

Why only Sirius Kase? Skoffin has yet to make a post today either.

—

Currently we have three people expressly for a mass claim (myself, BuJaber, blacky365), one person expressly against (chapcrap), four implicitly against through lack of commitment (strike wolf, ZaBeast, TX AG 90, Ragian), and two who have not even posted today (Skoffin, Sirius Kase). Now, my position is I would like to hear full claims from at least four specific other players and hear last night's action from every other player and everybody—who—hasn't—claimed—it—already's N2 action before I would really feel comfortable voting today. Surely there are others who feel similarly? Outside of chapcrap and Ragian who seem to both have become partial Cops, who of the rest of us really feel they can make an informed choice about who to vote for? Does anybody have anything to verify that either of these players is telling the truth, does Ragian even know for certain who he targeted given we still have claimed misdirection roles capable of hitting potentially five+ players per night?

I'm curious, does anybody not want a full claim from Skoffin at this point? Perhaps we should all just state who we do want a full claim from, see if anybody gets over six votes and just have those people claim?

[Ragian]

I'll repeat myself, Pika: Yes, the mod informed me of the players I targeted. And only one of them - by coincidence I presume - was one I already had in mind when setting out.

[Pikanchion]

I'll repeat myself, Pika: Yes, the mod informed me of the players I targeted. And only one of them - by coincidence I presume - was one I already had in mind when setting out.

I know you said that, but do you know for certain if that was before or after the effects of both ZaBeast and chapcrap's respective actions? I would certainly be surprised if what you were told could not be changed by a buss.

[Razorvich]

[Skoffin]

Oh hey nerds, I hadn't been posting because I was muted. So either mets wasn't the muter or someone picked up his ability from the dead. But nice try at a speed lynch attempt lol

Three, glad we lynched someone on my no lynch list. Worked out really well. Thanks for leading that Skoffin and Pika. Skoffin, strike wolf, or Ragian is a mafia scum. Kill one of them. It's definitely not strike wolf. He's a town healer. His role has been proven. If you want to attempt to feign a debate about his alignment, then fine, but you're wrong. unvote vote Skoffin

Yeah, I am glad we lynched tobi since he was MAFIA. You are most welcome! Town traitor means he is a TRAITOR to the TOWN, traitor is ALWAYS a mafia-aligned role. So from your own damn perspective tovbi was the scum you found and ragoo and I are the town results you found. The fact you are painting us as scum is simply incredible.

I'll weigh in on more of the other discussions when I have time, but concerning pika's plan; from a technical perspective his plan is likely the best way to actually root out scum, however I am against it on a personal level as I find those sorts of plays defeat the whole purpose of playing the game.

[Pikanchion]

Oh hey nerds, I hadn't been posting because I was muted. So either mets wasn't the muter or someone picked up his ability from the dead. But nice try at a speed lynch attempt lol

Or Silencer was one of the many duplicate roles... Either way I find it very odd for it to have only occurred twice in four nights.

Three, glad we lynched someone on my no lynch list. Worked out really well. Thanks for leading that Skoffin and Pika. Skoffin, strike wolf, or Ragian is a mafia scum. Kill one of them. It's definitely not strike wolf. He's a town healer. His role has been proven. If you want to attempt to feign a debate about his alignment, then fine, but you're wrong.

Yeah, I am glad we lynched tobi since he was MAFIA. You are most welcome! Town traitor means he is a TRAITOR to the TOWN, traitor is ALWAYS a mafia-aligned role. So from your own damn perspective tovbi was the scum you found and ragoo and I are the town results you found. :roll: The fact you are painting us as scum is simply incredible.

Except the role flip listed Town, suggesting any Cop-like abilities would also treat Tobikera as Town on investigation. That said we don't know for certain that the remaining Scum don't also have the term "Town" at the front of their respective Role Titles, but I would be surprised if they did.

I'll weigh in on more of the other discussions when I have time, but concerning pika's plan; from a technical perspective his plan is likely the best way to actually root out scum, however I am against it on a personal level as I find those sorts of plays defeat the whole purpose of playing the game.

Either this is "I want to lose because I prefer to scumhunt than to use solid evidence" or "I don't want to claim because my role and actions are highly suspect". One is bad play, the other is scummy.

[Ragian]

I'll repeat myself, Pika: Yes, the mod informed me of the players I targeted. And only one of them - by coincidence I presume - was one I already had in mind when setting out.

I know you said that, but do you know for certain if that was before or after the effects of both ZaBeast and chapcrap's respective actions? I would certainly be surprised if what you were told could not be changed by a buss.

I'm happy you didn't miss that. Why would the mod mention different names that the ones I set out to investigate if whoever I landed on randomly were changed anyway?

[Pikanchion]

I'll repeat myself, Pika: Yes, the mod informed me of the players I targeted. And only one of them - by coincidence I presume - was one I already had in mind when setting out.

I know you said that, but do you know for certain if that was before or after the effects of both ZaBeast and chapcrap's respective actions? I would certainly be surprised if what you were told could not be changed by a buss.

I'm happy you didn't miss that. Why would the mod mention different names that the ones I set out to investigate if whoever I landed on randomly were changed anyway?

It can be shown that one of the following is true:
— chapcrap is lying about who was bussed on certain nights
— people targeting chapcrap's targets are not told that their action was used on somebody other than their target

If you were told who your new target(s) were rather than who your action actually landed on it follows that your result could still be about somebody other than those listed by your night result. I suspect that if we mass claimed blacky365's result may be proof of this concept.

[blacky365]

If you were told who your new target(s) were rather than who your action actually landed on it follows that your result could still be about somebody other than those listed by your night result. I suspect that if we mass claimed blacky365's result may be proof of this concept.

How would I be proof of this concept?

[Pikanchion]

If you were told who your new target(s) were rather than who your action actually landed on it follows that your result could still be about somebody other than those listed by your night result. I suspect that if we mass claimed blacky365's result may be proof of this concept.

How would I be proof of this concept?

Do you honestly believe that Skoffin's Role is "Passive Healer", especially after she tried to counter-claim dakky21? I think your action landed on somebody other than who you were told.

[Ragian]

I'll repeat myself, Pika: Yes, the mod informed me of the players I targeted. And only one of them - by coincidence I presume - was one I already had in mind when setting out.

I know you said that, but do you know for certain if that was before or after the effects of both ZaBeast and chapcrap's respective actions? I would certainly be surprised if what you were told could not be changed by a buss.

I'm happy you didn't miss that. Why would the mod mention different names that the ones I set out to investigate if whoever I landed on randomly were changed anyway?

It can be shown that one of the following is true:
— chapcrap is lying about who was bussed on certain nights
— people targeting chapcrap's targets are not told that their action was used on somebody other than their target

If you were told who your new target(s) were rather than who your action actually landed on it follows that your result could still be about somebody other than those listed by your night result. I suspect that if we mass claimed blacky365's result may be proof of this concept.

Well. I KNOW for a fact that there's a healer in my mix. TX had claimed healer before. I trust my investigation to be honest. But hey, I like my food better than other people's food, too.

[Pikanchion]

Well. I KNOW for a fact that there's a healer in my mix. TX had claimed healer before. I trust my investigation to be honest. But hey, I like my food better than other people's food, too.

Yes, but if we are to take chapcrap's word then four of the ten alive were bussed last night, the chance of none of your three having any overlap with the aforementioned four is only 16.7%. The fact that you can be sure at least one of those you did actually use your action on is a Healer also means little when there are potentially three healers (two claimed plus the passive) in the pool of ten players...

[Pikanchion]

Do you understand why I said this now?:

Now, my position is I would like to hear full claims from at least four specific other players and hear last night's action from every other player and everybody—who—hasn't—claimed—it—already's N2 action before I would really feel comfortable voting today.

chapcrap is likely the only person who can be sure of who they used their action on last night as it stands.

[Ragian]

Are you saying that chap is the cause of all the trouble?

[Pikanchion]

Are you saying that chap is the cause of all the trouble?

As of Tobikera's lynch: Trouble? Maybe. Confusion? Sure.

Tobikera and ZaBeast were/are only misdirecting one player per night each, chapcrap can misdirect any number per night and the average number of players misdirected by bussing increases as the number of players remaining falls. Do I want chapcrap to claim who was bussed last night? Yes. Are there people who I find scummier that I want to claim before chapcrap? Also yes. Claim order is very important here as the later you claim the easier it is to lie.