Customer @#%$&**^% Service Mafia END Mafia win

[Skoffin]

The activity levels is extremely disappointing; please increase the activity in here.

[Ragian]

Just modkill everyone. This is ridiculous.

[dgz345]

looking down from heaven

[dakky21]

Just modkill everyone. This is ridiculous.

Don't want to repeat myself, but it looked like thread will die even in first moments of D1.

Prod everyone please or let's just lynch jfm.

[Ragian]

Yeah, it's probably difficult to get people to participate when some clown keeps waving his "the world will end tomorrow" banner.

As promised: vote jmf

I miss Pika.

[jfm10]

Yeah, it's probably difficult to get people to participate when some clown keeps waving his "the world will end tomorrow" banner.

As promised: vote jmf

I miss Pika.

Is this an admission then that the game would end tomorrow if we lynch you today?

[dakky21]

Yeah, it's probably difficult to get people to participate when some clown keeps waving his "the world will end tomorrow" banner.

As promised: vote jmf

I miss Pika.

Is this an admission then that the game would end tomorrow if we lynch you today?

And you're skimming. That was about my posts.

[jfm10]

Yeah, it's probably difficult to get people to participate when some clown keeps waving his "the world will end tomorrow" banner.

As promised: vote jmf

I miss Pika.

Is this an admission then that the game would end tomorrow if we lynch you today?

And you're skimming. That was about my posts.

I wasn't skimming.

[jfm10]

I am not an experienced player but if I were scum then pika would be my number one pick for a night kill.He only comes here to play mafia so he is a very good player.For that fact alone is why pika could be scum to me.

aage was killed on night one who is also a veteran player and the one that I believe Ragian would fear the most which is why I believe that he could be scum.

[jfm10]

This game is going to die. Just saying.

I said what I said but flavor may not be important but if it's a normal game of mafia then flavor IS important and blacky is scum as an employee.

I'm not saying your wrong, but just a couple of things.

1. blacky never said he was an employee in this game. I asked. He didn't clarify what he was talking about.
2. It does not necessarily have to be employees vs customers for the flavor. It could be robbers vs good customer/employees. Could be other things.
3. If the scum were all employees, presumably, they would know that. They already know who each other are. So, I don't think he'd slip out that he is an employee when it would give him away.

That being said, I'd still lynch him either way.

This was me before me dropping a hint about a family.

[dakky21]

Wow. So because someone uses the site and forums just to play mafia they must be scum? And that is a fact? You understand what you said?

On the other side I agree that scum would pick most influential players first for night kills because they can smell scum, but then again they can easily be misguided by experienced scum. So this thesis doesn't works.

fpd by JFM who made 3 posts in a row and didn't said anything in particular.

[ZaBeast]

I am not an experienced player but if I were scum then pika would be my number one pick for a night kill.He only comes here to play mafia so he is a very good player.For that fact alone is why pika could be scum to me.

aage was killed on night one who is also a veteran player and the one that I believe Ragian would fear the most which is why I believe that he could be scum.

It would make sense for mafia to pick the most experienced players first. It undermines your reasonning that you were targeted last night and that's why there was no NK though.

I'll maintain that jmf is the one playing the most antitown at this point (closely followed by dakky, but I'm still clinging to the fact that aage was gunning for dakky D1, which indicates town to me), but, as strike argues, I'm aware of the last game jmf played, so I'm wary of voting for him. Even if he omgussed me (or anticipated my vote by voting me or whatever you want to call it).

He had you in his top 2 scummiest read since the beginning of the day though. I don't agree with the arguments but I wouldn't call that an OMGUS. You don't seem too wary of voting for him though since you just did, less than 24h after you posted that. What convinced you?

[Ragian]

How do you know that jmf was targeted last night?

[Tobikera]

I think the most egregious error so far in the game was made by all of you. A fundamental rule that I learned in my first mafia game is that when someone is brought to L-2, they claim. It does not matter what the motivation or reasoning was of those who voted for that individual. Sometimes it was simply to get a claim on D1 to elicit more information. The person being forced to claim can either tell the truth, or make up a false claim. It does not matter....they have to claim. If this basic tenet of the game is allowed to be diluted or ignored, then the game is poorer in execution, and perhaps in result.

Pika has been brought to L-2 at least once in this game. He argued that the rules don't apply to him because he didn't feel the reasoning of those voting against him held merit. As stated above, the reasons don't matter. His arrogance in the face of established play calls for a policy lynch against him. It does not matter in this game whether he is scum or town or has a power role. In order that he, and everyone else, learns that there are no exceptions, he must die in this game. Otherwise, no one else will feel the need to claim in future games.

VOTE PIKA

[blacky365]

I think the most egregious error so far in the game was made by all of you. A fundamental rule that I learned in my first mafia game is that when someone is brought to L-2, they claim. It does not matter what the motivation or reasoning was of those who voted for that individual. Sometimes it was simply to get a claim on D1 to elicit more information. The person being forced to claim can either tell the truth, or make up a false claim. It does not matter....they have to claim. If this basic tenet of the game is allowed to be diluted or ignored, then the game is poorer in execution, and perhaps in result.

Pika has been brought to L-2 at least once in this game. He argued that the rules don't apply to him because he didn't feel the reasoning of those voting against him held merit. As stated above, the reasons don't matter. His arrogance in the face of established play calls for a policy lynch against him. It does not matter in this game whether he is scum or town or has a power role. In order that he, and everyone else, learns that there are no exceptions, he must die in this game. Otherwise, no one else will feel the need to claim in future games.

VOTE PIKA

I totally agree with this comment...
im also done with JFM and think there should be a policy lynch here too...

However, Pika has been on my radar for a while and im convinced that JFM is actually town. The only reason I would vote him when believing he is town is because his play is anti town.
Vote PIKA

[Ragian]

I'm not going to vote Pika I'm not going to vote for someone who I believe is town. And yes, I agree that people should claim when they are brought to L-2 like I agree that people shouldn't claim with no pressure. But hey, you guys are still around. It comes down to the stuff above: Do you think Pika is scum? If so, with whom is he collaborating? Who is town if Pika is scum? And what if it's the other way around? Who is scum if Pika is town? Who is town if Pika is town? You need to get that on record before lynching anyone (except for D1 of course).

Now, I'll reiterate that I think Pika's move is antitown in its play, but I'll counter that with my firm belief (based on meta and especially D1) that Pika is town. (Obviously, I might be wrong...) it's the same reason that I wouldn't lynch Tobi D1 despite his antitown move. I think he's town based on meta.

So, before you attempt to lynch Pika, ask yourselves the questions above. And, preferably, reply to them, too.

[jfm10]

I have a question.Is there ever a time at the beginning of a game that you would get away with a joke claim to being town?

[jfm10]

I'd like to lodge a claimplaint to the service department, the colors you chose for town are absolutely hideou. Think I'm gonna gag.

This was the 8th post in the game.My questions are is it normally accepted and if not then why would pika overlook it.If pika is scum and its not normally accepted then I would have my eyes on strike.

[ZaBeast]

@jfm: Am I right in assuming you're not a weak hider, one that would die upon hiding behind scum?

How do you know that jmf was targeted last night?

Short answer: I don't, do you?

But I assume you're talking about that?

It would make sense for mafia to pick the most experienced players first. It undermines your reasonning that you were targeted last night and that's why there was no NK though.

I'm just saying that so far, two of the main arguments jfm has put forward are
- pika wasn't targetted, but he is experienced, so he must be scum
- he thinks he was targetted (even if from his own admission he isn't experienced), so it must be coming from pika/ragian
Do you see the contradiction?

I'd like to lodge a claimplaint to the service department, the colors you chose for town are absolutely hideou. Think I'm gonna gag.

This was the 8th post in the game.My questions are is it normally accepted and if not then why would pika overlook it.If pika is scum and its not normally accepted then I would have my eyes on strike.

This post was either coming
- as a joke, from someone who received the usual colors assigned to his alignment: blue for town, yellow (?) for 3rd party, red for scum (for this game, that could only mean scum because we know for sure the other colors are different)
- or as a joke, from someone who received a different color than usual (and then it's a pretty safe bet to assume the other colors changed as well)
There's no way to tell which one it is, so it's not alignment indicative.

im also done with JFM and think there should be a policy lynch here too...

I would personnally policy lynch strike before jfm, mostly based on his activity, which makes it so I can't get a read on him. He has been involved in both lynches as well (I know he didn't lynch razor, but he's expressed interest in lynching him. He was basically holding onto his vote to avoid ending the day too early. That being said he had the chance to vote between Raz's claim and the hammer so I guess that's a point going in his favor). jfm seems town to me from his posts, but I believe his arguments are faulty.

[jfm10]

@jfm: Am I right in assuming you're not a weak hider, one that would die upon hiding behind scum?

How do you know that jmf was targeted last night?

Short answer: I don't, do you?

But I assume you're talking about that?

It would make sense for mafia to pick the most experienced players first. It undermines your reasonning that you were targeted last night and that's why there was no NK though.

I'm just saying that so far, two of the main arguments jfm has put forward are
- pika wasn't targetted, but he is experienced, so he must be scum
- he thinks he was targetted (even if from his own admission he isn't experienced), so it must be coming from pika/ragian
Do you see the contradiction?

I'd like to lodge a claimplaint to the service department, the colors you chose for town are absolutely hideou. Think I'm gonna gag.

This was the 8th post in the game.My questions are is it normally accepted and if not then why would pika overlook it.If pika is scum and its not normally accepted then I would have my eyes on strike.

This post was either coming
- as a joke, from someone who received the usual colors assigned to his alignment: blue for town, yellow (?) for 3rd party, red for scum (for this game, that could only mean scum because we know for sure the other colors are different)
- or as a joke, from someone who received a different color than usual (and then it's a pretty safe bet to assume the other colors changed as well)
There's no way to tell which one it is, so it's not alignment indicative.

im also done with JFM and think there should be a policy lynch here too...

I would personnally policy lynch strike before jfm, mostly based on his activity, which makes it so I can't get a read on him. He has been involved in both lynches as well (I know he didn't lynch razor, but he's expressed interest in lynching him. He was basically holding onto his vote to avoid ending the day too early. That being said he had the chance to vote between Raz's claim and the hammer so I guess that's a point going in his favor). jfm seems town to me from his posts, but I believe his arguments are faulty.

It is in my best interest to hide behind scum...that is why I have hid behind pika and ragian.

[ZaBeast]

The question was whether you'd die when hiding behind scum. I figured that wasn't the case because you wouldn't still be going after them if it was, just wanted to make sure.

[Pikanchion]

I think the most egregious error so far in the game was made by all of you. A fundamental rule that I learned in my first mafia game is that when someone has no reason to claim, they don't. It does not matter what the motivation was of those who claimed. Sometimes it was simply a mistake. The person claiming can either be telling the truth, or have made up a false claim. It does not matter....they have to be lynched. If this basic tenet of the game is allowed to be diluted or ignored, then the game is poorer in execution, and perhaps in result.

Tobikera, dakky21, and jfm10 have each claimed unnecessarily at least once in this game. They argued that the rules don't apply to them because they didn't feel the reasoning of those voting against them held merit. As stated above, the reasons don't matter. Their arrogance in the face of established play calls for a policy lynch against them. It does not matter in this game whether they are scum or town or have a power role. In order that they, and everyone else, learns that there are no exceptions, they must die in this game. Otherwise, no one else will feel the need to not claim unnecessarily in future games.

Vote TOBIKERA

—

I'd like to lodge a claimplaint to the service department, the colors you chose for town are absolutely hideou. Think I'm gonna gag.

This was the 8th post in the game.My questions are is it normally accepted and if not then why would pika overlook it.If pika is scum and its not normally accepted then I would have my eyes on strike.

?
Unless you have previously claimed (or perhaps proceed to claim) to be a Third Party I can't foresee a time when claiming to be Town could be seen as anything but a non-statement.

—

Whom might Scum have targeted last night?
Not Tobikera or dakky21 due to their role claims, and probably not jfm10 either as even if scum believed the claim switch to that of a Power Role, the way jfm10 played both here and in Into the Deep makes jfm10 an easy target for lynching. Likely not myself either as I too appear a relatively easy target for a lynch. This leaves blacky365, Ragian, strike wolf, and ZaBeast as the likely targets.

So who is Scum?
Clearly I know that I am Town, and the town as a whole believes that Tobikera, dakky21, and jfm10's claims are truthful or they would have been lynched already, so for the sake of argument I will take that as read. Again, we have blacky365, Ragian, strike wolf, and ZaBeast, this time as the likely suspects.

How many Scum are there?
Two seems likely.

Now, as I stated earlier, I do not believe anybody would target jfm10 with a Night Kill as Scum, so we have either a Doctor, Roleblocker, or Jailor in play. This role is either myself or one of the four designated earlier, and said role likewise would have targeted somebody in that group of four. As such, we should bring one of these four to claim:
- If we choose Scum: they have to lie, so there's a good chance we then correctly lynch them without any loss or do so after it triggers a counter claim
- If we choose the Doctor: they tell us whom they targeted and the other two of the four are both Scum
- If we choose the Roleblocker: they tell us whom they targeted and their target is Scum
- If we choose the Jailor: things are a little trickier, however finding Scum should still be trivial by Day 3
- If we choose a VT: this means one of the following; either they were saved by the Doctor (and this—once corroborated—means the remaining two are Scum), or they were not, in which case unfortunately we must mislynch them (as we cannot know they are not Scum lying)

Ignoring what my role may or may not be: Out of these four my best Town read is ZaBeast who has actively engaged, plus I don't see anything objectionable by Metsfanmax before the replacement. On the face of it, Ragian is playing like Town, but it feels a little forced/stilted, probably a Town read overall but it feels slightly off to me. I'm unsure about blacky365, who has been very quick to jump on bandwagons, and just as quick to jump back off of them. Meanwhile, strike wolf has been lurking a bit too much for my tastes, and these two posts are of particular interest (deliberately linking yourself in a minor way to your Scum partner day one is a tactic I've seen to throw those looking for players actively avoiding each other).

I am not at all certain about some of the things I have taken as axiomatic here (namely that Tobikera/dakky21/jfm10 are Town), and I'm sure that some of you will not accept other parts (i.e. my being Town, or perhaps Scum not targeting jfm10). Regardless of whether jfm10 is Town or not, we have wasted far too much time on discussing families and the like (especially when the family being real or not is actually information of no use that I can discern even if proven, despite jfm10's insistence that it does exist and does implicate certain players... somehow). As such, the fact everybody has been happy to let this continue with little to no discussion of other topics tells me that Scum are happy for jfm10 to be pressured, and most of the Town players are simply too apathetic to look for other avenues of investigation.

I think a change in direction is required if Town is win (assuming none of the early VT-claimers are Scum), so...

Unvote: Tobikera
Vote: strike wolf

—

In the event of my untimely demise:

• If I am a...
• Vanilla Townie: No action taken x2
• Cop: Ragian/dakky21, Town x2
• Doctor: Ragian/blacky365
• Jailor: ZaBeast/Ragian
• Roleblocker: Tobikera/Ragian
• Tracker: dakky21/Ragian, No result x2
• Vigilante: No action taken/jfm10
• Watcher: Tobikera/strike wolf, No result x2
• Any other role: dakky21/strike wolf, No result x2

[Skoffin]

Vote Count
8 alive, 5 needed to lynch.

Pikanchion ---- Tobi, blacky (2)
dakky21 -------
Ragian --------- JFM (1)
strike wolf ---- pika (1)
JFM ------ dakky, ragoo (2)
blacky365 -----
Beast ---
Tobikera -------

[strike wolf]

*Hands ZA and Pika cookies for being two players looking past just today for reads.*

That said, I'm not really sure I get Pika's point. I'm deliberately linking myself to Raglan because I made a couple posts defending Blacky about claiming a store employee and pointing out that Raglan made a comment himself that made it look like he was an employee? I was pointing out that people werent exactly jumping down Rages throat for making a comment that made him look like he was an employee. I don't see how I'm linking myself there.

So are you saying, I deliberately linked myself to Blacky by defending him? Ok. I guess I'm also linked to Tobi, you and JFM.

My scum right now are: Dakky and Blacky. Blacky is mostly PoE based on believing others more. Dakky I stated my reasons yesterday and will repeat if I have more time today.

[jfm10]

*Hands ZA and Pika cookies for being two players looking past just today for reads.*

That said, I'm not really sure I get Pika's point. I'm deliberately linking myself to Raglan because I made a couple posts defending Blacky about claiming a store employee and pointing out that Raglan made a comment himself that made it look like he was an employee? I was pointing out that people werent exactly jumping down Rages throat for making a comment that made him look like he was an employee. I don't see how I'm linking myself there.

So are you saying, I deliberately linked myself to Blacky by defending him? Ok. I guess I'm also linked to Tobi, you and JFM.

My scum right now are: Dakky and Blacky. Blacky is mostly PoE based on believing others more. Dakky I stated my reasons yesterday and will repeat if I have more time today.

I will never be able to write like pika but still information is important and my vote on ragian will go wasted.
unvote
vote strikewolf

I am sorry pika and I will not be hiding behind you tonight.