Irrational random numbers

[tzor]

Very few people really understand what "random" means. A common complaint is when a "random" series has a lot of the same numbers in it.

So let's think of our favorite irrational number PI.
Is is safe to day that the digits of PI are more or less random?
And yet, there are six nines in PI
There's also several stretchs of 3 1's 0's and 5's.

And that doesn't count the "nearest neighbor" where instead of looking for a streak of 9's we look for a streak of 8's and 9's.

Anyone want to start a PI Digit Bitch Thread?

[nietzsche]

pi isn't random.

[Dukasaur]

Your mother's random.

[2dimes]

Eleven

[jusplay4fun]

I basically see your point; I have studied Randomness where it applies to Quantum mechanics and in the area of statistical mechanics as it applies to entropy. I have a better understanding of that now, but am not an expert on the topic. Oddly, I have never had a math class on STATS; I learn as necessary to understand sciences and scientific method.

BUT NO no one really cares about randomness in pi; we cannot change PI and it does not impact our fun while playing game, as least not in any tangible way. Dice impacts lots of fun and games and cause us to win and lose. Those wins and losses impact our psychological frame of mind. That is why randomness of dice MATTERS to us.

I rant and rave about dice in games, too. I do not bother to share most of those emotions publicly as I do not see it making me feel any better. I guess some guys need to tell the world how angry they are over the losses caused by small cubes that should be random. Random means there is a chance, in some cases a very SMALL chance, that certain events become true. Oh, the pain of random events. What are the odds I will be stopped by 5 red traffic lights in a row while driving? Should that make me angry and go into Road Rage?

I would offer two more thoughts on Randomness: How do casinos make money? They exploit a Randomness to give people the ILLUSION that they are likely to WIN BIG. How many do? The same with lotteries. A few do win, but not many. AND guess what? Most lottery winners are LESS Happy than the average person. WoW....WHY...? they WON; they beat the odds.

Very few people really understand what "random" means. A common complaint is when a "random" series has a lot of the same numbers in it.

So let's think of our favorite irrational number PI.
Is is safe to day that the digits of PI are more or less random?
And yet, there are six nines in PI
There's also several stretchs of 3 1's 0's and 5's.

And that doesn't count the "nearest neighbor" where instead of looking for a streak of 9's we look for a streak of 8's and 9's.

Anyone want to start a PI Digit Bitch Thread?

[jusplay4fun]

I assume Tzor, that your avatar is Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Is that correct?

JUS wondering....

[tzor]

I assume Tzor, that your avatar is Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Is that correct?

You wonder incorrectly.

Spoiler

Back in the late 80's I had very oily hair. My mother's hairdresser suggested chemical warfare on it ... in other words a permanent. So I wound up with curly hair. What else do you do with a crappy photo? You turn it into a silhouette and add sparkles to it.

[nietzsche]

i bet the same hairdresser suggested that.

[tzor]

BUT NO no one really cares about randomness in pi; we cannot change PI and it does not impact our fun while playing game, as least not in any tangible way. Dice impacts lots of fun and games and cause us to win and lose. Those wins and losses impact our psychological frame of mind. That is why randomness of dice MATTERS to us.

You are somewhat missing my point. This is the problem with probability, it relies on the unknown, before it is known. It's a lot like Quantum Mechanics before you actually make a measurement at which point things become known. The result of a random sequence over time must result in an irrational number (because if there is any point where it starts to repeat the previous sequence it fails the basic requirements of a random number). Drop yourself at any point on the PI sequence and the next digit in the series is basically "random."

I'll give you an example of bad random. The basic Unix rand function was bad. When you used the real number to create a dice score depending on the sides of the dice you wound up with a repeated pattern.

D2: 0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1 ...
D4: 0,1,2,3,4,0,1,2,3,4 ...

I literally had to show that to the forum programmer in order for him to switch to a more proper random function.

Random doesn't really apply to games like the Lottery. This becomes a study of mind games and the way the mind treats good and bad results differently.

These same factors apply even when "random" doesn't really apply; millions fall for the Publisher's Clearing House letters telling them to send back the letter (along with that optional item order). Everyone knows that there is no way in hell they will win, but they want to win, so they do it anyway.

This applies to CC. There are two factors to consider.
1) The dice are not your friends - the system favors the defender.
2) You only see your attack dice - the horrific failures of your opponent are never seen. (Not that you need to have perverse pleasure in your opponent's misfortune.)

"random" does not mean you equally win and lose especially when your odds of loosing are higher than your odds of winning (on the average 3 - 2 roll, not on the 3 - 1 roll)

The history of your dice rolls is like any irrational number. You can't go back in time to change it. As such the behavior of that history is the same as any irrational number. If it was a rational number, the process wouldn't pass the proper test of a random sequence generator.

[jusplay4fun]

So your avatar is YOU? Is it u\your High School Graduation (or Senior Year) photo for your High School Yearbook?

I assume Tzor, that your avatar is Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Is that correct?

You wonder incorrectly.

Spoiler

Back in the late 80's I had very oily hair. My mother's hairdresser suggested chemical warfare on it ... in other words a permanent. So I wound up with curly hair. What else do you do with a crappy photo? You turn it into a silhouette and add sparkles to it.

[jusplay4fun]

Please also read the discussion here, done in the past few days:

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 7&start=25

These two forum threads have rational discussion of Random numbers and how they impact dice. Most such threads are JUS emotional rants about Bad Dice. I am sure they are MANY Forum thread complaining about Bad Dice. I have not bothered to count or read them all, tbh.

So my thanks to those of you offering Rational discussion of Randomness and irrational numbers.

JP4Fun