[CL14] Clan League - Winners: 1st TOFU, 2nd LION, 3rd FOED

[Caymanmew]

Making Sunday the deadline for all just makes things easier. Now we have a single deadline day to worry about rather than two days.

Under the old rules, games are due Sunday but the final deadline is Thursday. That basically meant Thursday was the due date as most clans did not make their games until Tuesday or Wednesday. Away games are due to be filled on Sunday I believe with a final deadline of Tuesday.

This change hopefully gets all the games out Sunday and gives clans a week to deal with away games. You still should make the games 2 or 3 days before the deadline, giving you time to deal with missed invites.

[IcePack]

Making Sunday the deadline for all just makes things easier. Now we have a single deadline day to worry about rather than two days.

Under the old rules, games are due Sunday but the final deadline is Thursday. That basically meant Thursday was the due date as most clans did not make their games until Tuesday or Wednesday. Away games are due to be filled on Sunday I believe with a final deadline of Tuesday.

This change hopefully gets all the games out Sunday and gives clans a week to deal with away games. You still should make the games 2 or 3 days before the deadline, giving you time to deal with missed invites.

Something else we agree on this has got to stop!

But for real, why clans wait until Sunday and then complain about the rules about missing invites or whatever instead of just making the day before and taking responsibility for your members and planning for issues in advance I never really understood.

Rules can help guide and keep things fair and honest n mistakes happen so warnings etc are built in for when life gets in the way. But it can’t be an ongoing weekly thing or you should be making adjustments as necessary for your own group

[groovysmurf]

I don't really understand how it's an improvement.
Many clans sometimes have a player not taking an invite.
Are we going to give them warning because one player missed his invite ?
LHDD always create game with invite at the same time ( and I'm sure most people do the same because it's faster), but sometimes we have player missing or declining.
As heavily debated in another clan war thread, majority of people seems to think what matter is to know which maps and settings you'll have to play on away games, not which players. Enforcing this just seem an extra burden on war organizer.

It’s no different than a tournament where you get X chances to accept an invite but that first is a warning? But it’s not unlimited, but that’s why old style rules was must be joined / filled by deadline. Then it’s on you to evaluate as war organizer to make on final day and risk the invite or do a da early and meet deadline and have took yo breathe.

yeah i/we do it at the same time also because it's just more efficient but what if someone happens to miss their invite for that day

then they accept monday

what happens?

The rule just says invited right not filled? So in this case it would be fine?

The wording does specifically say "invited", and we did that for a reason. There will always be cases where someone misses an invite or accidentally declines; that's just life. We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.

I agree with Donelladan that the most important thing is the games, not the players. However, in order to streamline Clan League and make it as efficient as possible, the hard deadline for creating, sending invites to and posting games by Sunday is best. I think it makes it easier to enforce, too. With the multiple days system, it was just unnecessarily complicated.

[iAmCaffeine]

I know everyone “read and understood” the rules

i actually specifically stated i hadnt read anything when i signed up AWOL

[MTIceman41]

yeah i/we do it at the same time also because it's just more efficient but what if someone happens to miss their invite for that day

then they accept monday

what happens?

Funny you say that lol
Missed sending a doubs invite last night (all games created)

But asked for an extension because I thought all games had to be filled
Know anyone good at law?

Wiggle room grace for round 1 then after that ya it’s on you

[i-andrei]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

[Caymanmew]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

Well, she is assistant TO, and someone needs to do stuff. JP has never exactly been on top of things, especially things that require hours of work. If the clans hadn't shot themselves in the foot and let her be a CD everything that needed to be done for CL on the backend, which takes hours, would already be done and ready.

She is easily a top 2 volunteer on the site(alongside Mad) and puts in an insane number of hours into running and planning events. She is exactly what the CD's need, someone with the time to get the tedious work done.

She has been an unofficial CD since the time I was a CD, she has just been completely in the back without the ability to actually do anything but give advice. Even now, she might run the threads and be the public voice for issuing infractions, but she is hardly able to do the hours of work she excels at, and that no one wants to do.

God forbid we have two CD's from the same clan, I am sure all those voting no to her as a CD applied to do the hours of work she is willing to do?

[i-andrei]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

Well, she is assistant TO, and someone needs to do stuff. JP has never exactly been on top of things, especially things that require hours of work. If the clans hadn't shot themselves in the foot and let her be a CD everything that needed to be done for CL on the backend, which takes hours, would already be done and ready.

She is easily a top 2 volunteer on the site(alongside Mad) and puts in an insane number of hours into running and planning events. She is exactly what the CD's need, someone with the time to get the tedious work done.

She has been an unofficial CD since the time I was a CD, she has just been completely in the back without the ability to actually do anything but give advice. Even now, she might run the threads and be the public voice for issuing infractions, but she is hardly able to do the hours of work she excels at, and that no one wants to do.

God forbid we have two CD's from the same clan, I am sure all those voting no to her as a CD applied to do the hours of work she is willing to do?

Well i don't know the answer to your last question, but the result of the vote and that's not being taken into consideration. And i feel like that's one of the main issues.
Plus i think that if JP doesn't have the time he should step down and pass Groovy the full role and i don't seee anyone having any issue with that.

At this point JP is that little piece of code you leave it commented, maybe you'll use it sometime, and we all know that never happens.

[groovysmurf]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

No, I'm just assistant TO here; not for all Clan events. Clan League and Conqueror's Cup don't NEED to be solely run by the CDs, that was never a necessity. There are obviously many things I cannot do without access to the Clan Database, but I can easily do other things to help run the tournament. The reason for creating the threads is that I am not a CD and therefore have no ability to edit messages in the clan forums. By creating myself, it allows me to edit in infractions/extensions or whatever is needed, without having to ask JP or Jd to do it for me.

[shoop76]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

No, I'm just assistant TO here; not for all Clan events. Clan League and Conqueror's Cup don't NEED to be solely run by the CDs, that was never a necessity. There are obviously many things I cannot do without access to the Clan Database, but I can easily do other things to help run the tournament. The reason for creating the threads is that I am not a CD and therefore have no ability to edit messages in the clan forums. By creating myself, it allows me to edit in infractions/extensions or whatever is needed, without having to ask JP or Jd to do it for me.

First of all, your doing a great job Groovy, best I have seen in a long time with event, including myself. But I am not sure I agree with that, I remember that CL and CC Cup were the only 2 official CD events and needed to be run by the CD department. Maybe that has changed now.

[shoop76]

By the way I was searching under the clan tab for the CL14 matchups. They are under clan wars, not clan leagues.

[fishydance]

By the way I was searching under the clan tab for the CL14 matchups. They are under clan wars, not clan leagues.

Wow, they sure are. Hopefully they can be moved to the clan league tab

[Lindax]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

No, I'm just assistant TO here; not for all Clan events. Clan League and Conqueror's Cup don't NEED to be solely run by the CDs, that was never a necessity. There are obviously many things I cannot do without access to the Clan Database, but I can easily do other things to help run the tournament. The reason for creating the threads is that I am not a CD and therefore have no ability to edit messages in the clan forums. By creating myself, it allows me to edit in infractions/extensions or whatever is needed, without having to ask JP or Jd to do it for me.

First of all, your doing a great job Groovy, best I have seen in a long time with event, including myself. But I am not sure I agree with that, I remember that CL and CC Cup were the only 2 official CD events and needed to be run by the CD department. Maybe that has changed now.

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

[Caymanmew]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

No, I'm just assistant TO here; not for all Clan events. Clan League and Conqueror's Cup don't NEED to be solely run by the CDs, that was never a necessity. There are obviously many things I cannot do without access to the Clan Database, but I can easily do other things to help run the tournament. The reason for creating the threads is that I am not a CD and therefore have no ability to edit messages in the clan forums. By creating myself, it allows me to edit in infractions/extensions or whatever is needed, without having to ask JP or Jd to do it for me.

First of all, your doing a great job Groovy, best I have seen in a long time with event, including myself. But I am not sure I agree with that, I remember that CL and CC Cup were the only 2 official CD events and needed to be run by the CD department. Maybe that has changed now.

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

Not much different than when you ran clan tournaments I'm sure, you hardly cared for the opinion of other CDs when doing stuff. So one rep from one clan had all the power. And before you deny it, I've read the CD forums... The CWC topic sure was interesting...

[Caymanmew]

We're not going to issue infractions for this type of thing unless it happens repeatedly.
.

I did observe you created all threads and stuff and understand Jp needs help, but also remember there was a negative vote regarding you as a CD so it is unclear to me what's happening at this point.

So are you an unofficial CD even if the clans voted No?

Well, she is assistant TO, and someone needs to do stuff. JP has never exactly been on top of things, especially things that require hours of work. If the clans hadn't shot themselves in the foot and let her be a CD everything that needed to be done for CL on the backend, which takes hours, would already be done and ready.

She is easily a top 2 volunteer on the site(alongside Mad) and puts in an insane number of hours into running and planning events. She is exactly what the CD's need, someone with the time to get the tedious work done.

She has been an unofficial CD since the time I was a CD, she has just been completely in the back without the ability to actually do anything but give advice. Even now, she might run the threads and be the public voice for issuing infractions, but she is hardly able to do the hours of work she excels at, and that no one wants to do.

God forbid we have two CD's from the same clan, I am sure all those voting no to her as a CD applied to do the hours of work she is willing to do?

Well i don't know the answer to your last question, but the result of the vote and that's not being taken into consideration. And i feel like that's one of the main issues.
Plus i think that if JP doesn't have the time he should step down and pass Groovy the full role and i don't seee anyone having any issue with that.

At this point JP is that little piece of code you leave it commented, maybe you'll use it sometime, and we all know that never happens.

JP has never had time, I am sure Scott can confirm that for you. It was taking a week to get a reply to simple questions from him when I was a CD. Often times he would shoot down ideas as well without any solution after the rest of the team agreed to stuff, again that was after a week or two of asking him to look at things. Easily the worst boss I have ever worked for.

Guy should never have been Head CD because he clearly has no time for the job. There are perfectly qualified people, with experience, willing to take the role who would do a way better job.

At least Groovy would have been able to get stuff actually done despite JP's inaction.

[groovysmurf]

By the way I was searching under the clan tab for the CL14 matchups. They are under clan wars, not clan leagues.

Wow, they sure are. Hopefully they can be moved to the clan league tab

They are fine actually. He just hasn't officially "activated" (for use of a better word) any of the wars yet; just created them. Going into each war and changing the settings and adding the players is a time-consuming process...It's more convenient to just do everything at once when the games are added.

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

I had no idea so many people would have an issue with this. We just had two members of the same clan run Random League and no one had an issue with that. It's clear that I am the problem here. It hurts me personally to know that people don't trust me enough to be objective. I've been a volunteer for over 5 years and have never done a single thing to make people feel they can't trust me to always be objective...or so I thought.

The infractions, at least for things like sticking to the schedule wouldn't have been handled by 2 members from the same clan; just JP.

I think I should probably step away from this as it's clear this was a mistake. Neither JP or I wish to leave A^. Funnily enough, that poll was not a requirement at all. I was approved by administration to rejoin the CD team alongside my clan member. He made the poll because we didn't want to do something if the majority of clans had a problem with it, though. Multiple people said he should simply ignore the results and add me in, but in my opinion it wasn't worth upsetting people...seems I've done that anyway, though.

[i-andrei]

I don't think you understand that the general idea is that the other guys ways' way of handling things are the issues here, not you.
And i don't see that changing as it's obvious he doesn't care about other people and their opinions.

[iAmCaffeine]

someone make a new thread and i'll happily disclose how and why we voted the way we did

this aint the place

[groovysmurf]

I honestly just wish people had expressed a problem with me being Assistant TO a month ago, before I got invested. I have NEVER walked away from an event or tournament I agreed to run or help run and would prefer not to do that at all.

I understand why the vote went the way it did. Hell, I told JP it would happen that way. I just didn't think people would have an issue with me helping to run an event like this. It's not like A^ would receive favoritism of any kind. We'd have hundreds of eyes watching if we made a game late or used a map more than 4 times...and even if we didn't have people watching us extra closely, we wouldn't break the rules anyway. So, where exactly does the problem lie?

You're wrong about JP not caring. He has a lot on his plate, that's true, but he cares about Conquer Club and clans more than you will ever know.

[iAmCaffeine]

I honestly just wish people had expressed a problem with me being Assistant TO a month ago, before I got invested. I have NEVER walked away from an event or tournament I agreed to run or help run and would prefer not to do that at all.

I understand why the vote went the way it did. Hell, I told JP it would happen that way. I just didn't think people would have an issue with me helping to run an event like this. It's not like A^ would receive favoritism of any kind. We'd have hundreds of eyes watching if we made a game late or used a map more than 4 times...and even if we didn't have people watching us extra closely, we wouldn't break the rules anyway. So, where exactly does the problem lie?

i dont think people rly have an issue with you being assistant TO. hell i dont rly care if two people from the same clan are both CDs. to me it's more about who those actual people are and personally, i don't think you'd offer a difference of opinion to JP and even if you did, it wouldn't get anywhere.

having said that i didnt realise the CD team was now only 1.5 people if you don't count TeeGee.

You're wrong about JP not caring. He has a lot on his plate, that's true, but he cares about Conquer Club and clans more than you will ever know.

you could say this about anyone who's been invested in clans for a considerable amount of time.

[Donelladan]

Mmmm...., yeah. Now we have 2 members from the same clan possibly making decisions on infractions (for example) in an official Clan Department tournament.

Lx

Yeah, don't see the issue here. Offially in the rule it's only the TO not his assistent is issuing warnings/infractions.
And one guy from one clan deciding alone or two from the same clan, how is that any different ?
Ultimately we can appeal decision to the CD's, and on the CD's groovy isn't there.

@groovy, don't step down because a couple of people are complaining.
And actually I don't see any posts here really saying you shouldn't be organizing the events, just a few questions.

[fishydance]

@groovy, don't step down because a couple of people are complaining.

+100

[iAmCaffeine]

who has complained about groovy being a an organiser for CL?

[JPlo64]

To clear some things up.

CL and CCup are Major Events Sponsored by the CD Team.
The CD Team is responsible for organizing and running the tournament.
Any and all decisions that have or will be made come from me/CD Team.
groovysmurf is the Assistant TO, she may be the one you hear from most often in posts/reminders, but ultimately she does not make decisions.

By the way I was searching under the clan tab for the CL14 matchups. They are under clan wars, not clan leagues.

As groovy stated, I have been waiting to do the final steps that would cause the matches to show up in the Leagues Tab until I added the games in. (It's much more efficient time wise)
So by the time games are added to a match, everything should show up correctly.
I was only intending to do this in R1 and finish off the rest sometime before R2 begins.

[elddir]

It seems the issues are generally cleared up a bit here, but I want to be on the record saying that Groovy is awesome and that we are lucky she is able and willing to devote time to this tournament!!