Hamas terrorists

[Pack Rat]

Hamas must be destroyed! The truth of October 7th must be shown to all Gazan Palestinians, that Hamas is truly a terrorist organization that invited a fierce retaliation from Israel.

They need to rid all Hamas terrorists from Gaza or face a continued military occupation with no hope of independence.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-e ... j7o_SIhMs2

[Votanic]

Hamas must be destroyed! The truth of October 7th must be shown to all Gazan Palestinians, that Hamas is truly a terrorist organization that invited a fierce retaliation from Israel.

They need to rid all Hamas terrorists from Gaza or face a continued military occupation with no hope of independence.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-e ... j7o_SIhMs2

Interesting! ...and certain to generate lively debate.

btw, ralf, I prepared your version for posting. Read on.

Hamas Israel must be destroyed! The truth of October 7th must be shown to all Gazan Palestinians Jewish Israelis, that Hamas Israel is truly a terrorist organization that invited a fierce retaliation from Israel Hamas.

They need to rid all Hamas Israeli terrorists from Gaza Palrael or face a continued military occupation with no hope of independence.

(No need to thank me, I'm glad to help).

[saxitoxin]

The truth of October 7th must be shown to all Gazan Palestinians

The truth of May 15, 1948 to October 6, 2023 must be shown to all Israelis.

face a continued military occupation with no hope of independence

That's why October 7 happened.

[Pack Rat]

The truth of October 7th must be shown to all Gazan Palestinians

The truth of May 15, 1948 to October 6, 2023 must be shown to all Israelis.

face a continued military occupation with no hope of independence

That's why October 7 happened.

...and why 2 million Gazan Palestinians have to suffer the sins of Hamas.

[saxitoxin]

The truth of October 7th must be shown to all Gazan Palestinians

The truth of May 15, 1948 to October 6, 2023 must be shown to all Israelis.

face a continued military occupation with no hope of independence

That's why October 7 happened.

...and why 2 million Gazan Palestinians have to suffer the sins of Hamas.

...and why 7 million Israelis have to suffer the sins of Zionism.

[Dukasaur]

The truth of October 7th must be shown to all Gazan Palestinians

The truth of May 15, 1948 to October 6, 2023 must be shown to all Israelis.

face a continued military occupation with no hope of independence

That's why October 7 happened.

...and why 2 million Gazan Palestinians have to suffer the sins of Hamas.

...and why 7 million Israelis have to suffer the sins of Zionism.

Zionism is not a sin. A people needs a homeland, and this homeland was assigned to them by the framers of the post-WWI peace. I think the only reason there's still conflict there is that David LLoyd George didn't stay in office long enough to fulfil the promise. Zionists had to wait 30 years and another world war before they could claim what was given to them, and in the meantime the region became enmeshed in American and Russian machinations.

[saxitoxin]

A people needs a homeland, and this homeland was assigned to them by the framers of the post-WWI peace.

The Sikhs don't have a homeland. Presumably, you'd be okay if the UN declared Ontario to be a Sikh homeland and a few million Sikhs showed up and kicked all current homeowners out of their houses without compensation. Because they need a homeland and Ontario was assigned to them.

[saxitoxin]

Funny how the Baha'i, the Druze, the Zorastrians, the Jains, the Scientologists, and - aside from a small minority - the Sikhs assert that they are fully capable of integrating into society at large and don't "need" a religious supremacist state.

[Votanic]

Zionism is not a sin. A people needs a homeland, and this homeland was assigned to them by the framers of the post-WWI peace. I think the only reason there's still conflict there is that David LLoyd George didn't stay in office long enough to fulfil the promise. Zionists had to wait 30 years and another world war before they could claim what was given to them, and in the meantime the region became enmeshed in American and Russian machinations.

So now, the winners of WWI (not really a world war, but I digress) framed a peace?!
Frankly, it seems to me, if you're are going to blame them for Hitler, you also have to blame them for Israel.

It's arguable that Palestine was even Britain's to give away... but that was the imperialist mind-set back then.
If only the the Ottomans had won the war... We might never have seen the rise of Fascism: German, Jewish, Italian, Monogamists, etc.

[saxitoxin]

Things are gonna change when Quinn the Eskimo gets here. Just wait and see.

[Dukasaur]

A people needs a homeland, and this homeland was assigned to them by the framers of the post-WWI peace.

The Sikhs don't have a homeland. Presumably, you'd be okay if the UN declared Ontario to be a Sikh homeland and a few million Sikhs showed up and kicked all current homeowners out of their houses without compensation. Because they need a homeland and Ontario was assigned to them.

We already have a Sikh homeland in a part of Ontario called Brampton...

That being said, His Britannic Majesty currently does have sovereignty over Ontario. No Arab held sovereignty over Palestine. It was an Ottoman possession, taken as spoils of war by the British. No Arab ruled there since the days of Saladin.

[saxitoxin]

That being said, His Britannic Majesty currently does have sovereignty over Ontario. No Arab held sovereignty over Palestine. It was an Ottoman possession, taken as spoils of war by the British.

Great. So what's the big deal about the Palestinians attempting to take all of Israel by right of spoils of war? Everyone can take whatever and as much as they can grab.

[Pack Rat]

Saxi is now scraping the bottom of the barrel for replies.

His whatabout this or whatabout that....

Saxi, you getting mentally lazy? Some of us love the entertainment value in your replies and posts, especially the angry and hate directed toward you.

[bigtoughralf]

Saxi is now scraping the bottom of the barrel for replies.

His whatabout this or whatabout that....

Godwin's Law needs updating. It used to be that all online 'debates' ended in a Nazi analogy, now all online debates end with an accusation of 'whataboutism'.

[Dukasaur]

That being said, His Britannic Majesty currently does have sovereignty over Ontario. No Arab held sovereignty over Palestine. It was an Ottoman possession, taken as spoils of war by the British.

Great. So what's the big deal about the Palestinians attempting to take all of Israel by right of spoils of war? Everyone can take whatever and as much as they can grab.

Well, ultimately, everyone can. But we can choose to try to prevent it.

[bigtoughralf]

That being said, His Britannic Majesty currently does have sovereignty over Ontario. No Arab held sovereignty over Palestine. It was an Ottoman possession, taken as spoils of war by the British.

Great. So what's the big deal about the Palestinians attempting to take all of Israel by right of spoils of war? Everyone can take whatever and as much as they can grab.

Well, ultimately, everyone can. But we can choose to try to prevent it.

Kinda like Palestinians are doing.

[Votanic]

Whataboutisms are awesome. Everybody should do some... and get some done to them too. All manner of inequalities and double standards will be revealed.

Of course one may counter by asking ever said the world was equal/fair/just... and why should everyone be held to the same standard.

...and so we return to the concept of power and who is really able to make the laws, or more precisely, effectively enforce the laws they make.
For we can all make laws (secular or religious, pragmatic or 'moral') at a moments notice, but if we cannot force them upon reality, they remain nothing more than idle whims and silly fancies.

I place 'moral' in quotes because all laws (nor the morals that underpin them) are truly based on power. Made by the powerful for the powerful. Axccess to and benefit from all laws is son visibly unequal, that it is truly amaxing that anyone ever argues otherwise. More likely is for the powerful to just patiently explain why they deserve or simply must have the myriad benefits denied to their inferiors. Any edict that seems to suggest equality, fairness, or mercy is either A) propaganda and public relations, or B) a reflection of the inate power still held by the hoi polloi that form the base of humanity's 'Great Pyramid', for I don't mean to suggest that anyone is ever all powerful or completely powerless. ...and so, take every liberty available to you: You've 'earned' it.

Take the best place available in the great, hierarchical pyramid of victors and victims, masters and slaves. Each position defined relative to those who crush from above and those stood on beneath. At this point, you may also decide if you want to interpret your position and world view as a matter of virtue, probability, skill, or luck.

No such thing as luck, you say?
On the contrary, everything is luck, including the possession of any skills or intelligence you may have... but what starts out as a lucky victory will soon be cemented as a moral virtue... and underlying probabilities remove most illusions free will. For we all know from life (and CC) tha twe can not long resist superior force and the great probability of success that accompanies it. By all means, stand up against the Juggernaut if you dare. At best it shalll be deemed a 'noble' and 'poetic' sacrifice, at worst (and more likely) a stupid and pointless gesture.

[jusplay4fun]

Whataboutisms are awesome. Everybody should do some... and get some done to them too. All manner of inequalities and double standards will be revealed.

Of course one may counter by asking ever said the world was equal/fair/just... and why should everyone be held to the same standard.

...and so we return to the concept of power and who is really able to make the laws, or more precisely, effectively enforce the laws they make.
For we can all make laws (secular or religious, pragmatic or 'moral') at a moments notice, but if we cannot force them upon reality, they remain nothing more than idle whims and silly fancies.

I place 'moral' in quotes because all laws (nor the morals that underpin them) are truly based on power. Made by the powerful for the powerful. Axccess to and benefit from all laws is son visibly unequal, that it is truly amaxing that anyone ever argues otherwise. More likely is for the powerful to just patiently explain why they deserve or simply must have the myriad benefits denied to their inferiors. Any edict that seems to suggest equality, fairness, or mercy is either A) propaganda and public relations, or B) a reflection of the inate power still held by the hoi polloi that form the base of humanity's 'Great Pyramid', for I don't mean to suggest that anyone is ever all powerful or completely powerless. ...and so, take every liberty available to you: You've 'earned' it.

Take the best place available in the great, hierarchical pyramid of victors and victims, masters and slaves. Each position defined relative to those who crush from above and those stood on beneath. At this point, you may also decide if you want to interpret your position and world view as a matter of virtue, probability, skill, or luck.

No such thing as luck, you say?
On the contrary, everything is luck, including the possession of any skills or intelligence you may have... but what starts out as a lucky victory will soon be cemented as a moral virtue... and underlying probabilities remove most illusions free will. For we all know from life (and CC) tha twe can not long resist superior force and the great probability of success that accompanies it. By all means, stand up against the Juggernaut if you dare. At best it shalll be deemed a 'noble' and 'poetic' sacrifice, at worst (and more likely) a stupid and pointless gesture.

You fail to account for morals of the individual. One can have morals, follow the Moral Law, and not be subject to the power of others.