The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow Wolves win

[Ragian]

Going to bed now. Smoke away, my boy.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm a spooky ghost suffering from verbal diarrhea.

I know I'm breaking a golden rule here, but stfu Max. You're dead, lynched, kapoot. Quit ruining the game for others.

[degaston]

I was working on a post, but Ragian's post made it obsolete. Does anyone not believe him?

On dega, Im coming back to the Max wagon. This part might be overthinking it but— in elementary school mafia, Max also got lynched after getting pressured and then stubbornly refusing to claim (and flipped town). This was on D3 in Elemntary School, the thread is in the archives. Dega and pixar were both on that lynch.

I had pretty much forgotten Elementary, but I thought I'd go take a look:

Vote count

1 Fusibaseball (strike)
1 Darin (Max)
6 Max (Darin, Duke, Pixar, chana, i-Andrei, Fusi) that's a lynch

With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to end the day in a lynch or a no lynch.

Hmmm... my name is suspiciously absent. Were you counting on no one checking?

[Devante]

Is Pixar usually this quiet in games? I’d like him to chime in and make a claim

[swang918]

Shoot I was def sure you were on the max lynch there Dega. Bad call by me

[degaston]

Shoot I was def sure you were on the max lynch there Dega. Bad call by me

Does anyone else want Swang's claim?

Vote Swang

[swang918]

Re ragian’s claim. At beginning of D3 there were traces of blood from N2, according to traf. So that supports Ragians claim that he healed Dega N2.

[degaston]

I could also go for Pixar. I think he and Swang may be our wolves.

[SoN!c]

Dude... Stop smoking. I'm on a skiing trip with the family. Some of us have lives, you know (and no discord account). Moreover, you're usually not allowed to debate a game outside of the assigned forums.

Anyway, I'm the witch. I brought Dega back N2 with a healing potion. He was targeted by wolves. I killed Charle last night, thinking that Loose would at least give up a wolf to be believable. I just figured Charle's claim wasn't online for long enough to make the real monger react. Bad call. Shit happens. I just, really, don't get Loose's play. But hey, maybe the clue is in his handle.

Now, Dega targeted by wolves indicates town (or 3rd party) to me. I'm the witch. You know she's in here after last night (my bad).

If anyone counterclaims, think about why I would choose the witch at this moment. Or lynch me and whoever counters. 1 for 1 is a decent trade.

Enjoy the skiing and sip a beer for me at the bar. Look 4 unknowns, 2 wolves to find.., a little rub can't hurt at this stage? And yes, a little rub on you at this stage seems appropriate?

1) you killing Charle after his scandalmonger claim is just not you
2) already mentioning a counterclaim in advance seems weird?
3) Deg confirms it so does the "rescued party" knows the identity of his rescuer?

"I was working on a post, but Ragian's post made it obsolete. Does anyone not believe him?"

So if both of you are town and vouch for each other then it must be Pixar/Swang right?

[Votanic]

Just another thought here, are we sure there’s another wolf in play and we’re not just dealing with a 3rd party role?

A regular wolf, AFW and white wolf does make sense at game start so I would think there is. Maybe even 2 regular wolves at game start on 18 players. But I’m leaning towards one left or none. If the thought with setup was the AFW will just keep converting and gaining wolves then by fluke we stopped that at game start. And if by chance there isn’t another wolf it might explain the no night kills. Unless the defender has been able to block them very successfully. It might also explain why loose chose Charlie as there was no wolf to point at. Game is still going as the 3rd party roles can still win if they achieve their objective. Leaning towards a smart or quiet wolf in play but there might be something here. Thoughts?

If I had to guess I would guess 4 original wolves (ACF, BBW, WhiteW, and 1 regular werewolf.) with the conversion possibility for a fifth. I also think the AWF role was transferred to the regular wolf when strike died, since that is the only way I can explain DDS being (biten/bitten) in a way that would affect his Town status.

[degaston]

3) Deg confirms it so does the "rescued party" knows the identity of his rescuer?

"I was working on a post, but Ragian's post made it obsolete. Does anyone not believe him?"

I can't confirm anything about his claim. I was not notified that I was attacked.
But we know there's a witch, right?
And the witch has to be town, right?
So, just like your claim, if no one counterclaims, then it's reasonable to believe it. (Which is why mentioning a counterclaim in advance is not weird.)

[SoN!c]

Just another thought here, are we sure there’s another wolf in play and we’re not just dealing with a 3rd party role?

A regular wolf, AFW and white wolf does make sense at game start so I would think there is. Maybe even 2 regular wolves at game start on 18 players. But I’m leaning towards one left or none. If the thought with setup was the AFW will just keep converting and gaining wolves then by fluke we stopped that at game start. And if by chance there isn’t another wolf it might explain the no night kills. Unless the defender has been able to block them very successfully. It might also explain why loose chose Charlie as there was no wolf to point at. Game is still going as the 3rd party roles can still win if they achieve their objective. Leaning towards a smart or quiet wolf in play but there might be something here. Thoughts?

If I had to guess I would guess 4 original wolves (ACF, BBW, WhiteW, and 1 regular werewolf.) with the conversion possibility for a fifth. I also think the AWF role was transferred to the regular wolf when strike died, since that is the only way I can explain DDS being (biten/bitten) in a way that would affect his Town status.

I agree except i think the AFW bit DDS on D1 (it explains why DDS wanted the sheriff job first before diving it (getting bitten in the meantime) - and by killing the AFW the BBW lost his power (it turned him into a common wolf).. So 4 original wolves (the AFW, BBW, WhiteWolf, and 1 regular werewolf) + DDS the converted one by the Forefather wolf (who had just 1 conversion only). But the AWF role transferring to another wolf when strike died could have happened either. Just don't see the DDS dive well explained in that case but its such a minor detail i think it's not that important. You could break your head if you keep thinking on it

FP by Deg

[SoN!c]

3) Deg confirms it so does the "rescued party" knows the identity of his rescuer?

"I was working on a post, but Ragian's post made it obsolete. Does anyone not believe him?"

I can't confirm anything about his claim. I was not notified that I was attacked.
But we know there's a witch, right?
And the witch has to be town, right?
So, just like your claim, if no one counterclaims, then it's reasonable to believe it. (Which is why mentioning a counterclaim in advance is not weird.)

Yes i agree all the way Deg, it's just Thor seems to be the silent absent one.. And i was already thinking he would be the witch. I posted that already. So claiming the same role as the silent one seems a pretty good strategy. Do you blame me for that?

[Votanic]

Dude... Stop smoking. I'm on a skiing trip with the family. Some of us have lives, you know (and no discord account). Moreover, you're usually not allowed to debate a game outside of the assigned forums.

Anyway, I'm the witch. I brought Dega back N2 with a healing potion. He was targeted by wolves. I killed Charle last night, thinking that Loose would at least give up a wolf to be believable. I just figured Charle's claim wasn't online for long enough to make the real monger react. Bad call. Shit happens. I just, really, don't get Loose's play. But hey, maybe the clue is in his handle.

Now, Dega targeted by wolves indicates town (or 3rd party) to me. I'm the witch. You know she's in here after last night (my bad).

If anyone counterclaims, think about why I would choose the witch at this moment. Or lynch me and whoever counters. 1 for 1 is a decent trade.

Ragian don't go to bed. Get back here, I have questions.
1. Exactly how were you told that Degaston was killed by wolves on Night 2 and that you could save him?
2. Why (do you think) Degaston was targeted by the Wolves over the other known Townies, such as myself or EW?

Also,
@ Thor: I want you to make an appearance and claim your role.

@ Pixar: I would like you to claim.

@ Everybody: Something is not right... there are several different scenarios I'm trying to weigh here.
No lynch votes until Ragian, Thor, and Pixar show up to answer their questions.

[degaston]

Yes i agree all the way Deg, it's just Thor seems to be the silent absent one.. And i was already thinking he would be the witch. I posted that already. So claiming the same role as the silent one seems a pretty good strategy. Do you blame me for that?

I've noticed that you seem to prefer complicated solutions over simple ones. Especially when they can be used to justify your preconceived notions. It's good to keep them in mind, but I think it's generally better to assume that things are as they appear until something no longer fits.

[SoN!c]

Dude... Stop smoking. I'm on a skiing trip with the family. Some of us have lives, you know (and no discord account). Moreover, you're usually not allowed to debate a game outside of the assigned forums.

Anyway, I'm the witch. I brought Dega back N2 with a healing potion. He was targeted by wolves. I killed Charle last night, thinking that Loose would at least give up a wolf to be believable. I just figured Charle's claim wasn't online for long enough to make the real monger react. Bad call. Shit happens. I just, really, don't get Loose's play. But hey, maybe the clue is in his handle.

Now, Dega targeted by wolves indicates town (or 3rd party) to me. I'm the witch. You know she's in here after last night (my bad).

If anyone counterclaims, think about why I would choose the witch at this moment. Or lynch me and whoever counters. 1 for 1 is a decent trade.

Ragian don't go to bed. Get back here, I have questions.
1. Exactly how were you told that Degaston was killed by wolves on Night 2 and that you could save him?
2. Why (do you think) Degaston was targeted by the Wolves over the other known Townies, such as myself or EW?

Also,
@ Thor: I want you to make an appearance and claim your role.

@ Pixar: I would like you to claim.

@ Everybody: Something is not right... there are several different scenarios I'm trying to weigh here.
No lynch votes until Ragian, Thor, and Pixar show up to answer their questions.

To Ragians defence: Ragian is in the same timezone as me. Its midnight here.. And when i was on a ski-trip i can tell you 10pm is already very late because you wanna hit the slopes at 9am (so that means breakfast at 7.00)..yes i believe Ragian is deep asleep by now. He is in Sweden according to his flag so yes he is probably Skiing (his regular flag is Denmark).

But another yes too; i was thinking the same things how could he'd know that?... so perhaps Dega can explain it to some extent already?

[Votanic]

I agree except i think the AFW bit DDS on D1 (it explains why DDS wanted the sheriff job first before diving it (getting bitten in the meantime) - and by killing the AFW the BBW lost his power (it turned him into a common wolf).. So 4 original wolves (the AFW, BBW, WhiteWolf, and 1 regular werewolf) + DDS the converted one by the Forefather wolf (who had just 1 conversion only). But the AWF role transferring to another wolf when strike died could have happened either. Just don't see the DDS dive well explained in that case but its such a minor detail i think it's not that important. You could break your head if you keep thinking on it

• It is true in W.O.M.H. that The BBW loses his power if another wolf is killed first... but I wonder if Traf would have included that detail.
It doesn't seem to work well in a Mafia game.

• If The BBW is around and did have his power, I wonder what night he used it? At first I was guessing Night 1.. but maybe he waited until another night...

• Having the AWF conversion take place on Day 1 sound very unlikely. It goes against both gameplay logic and flavor.

• I also wonder if DDS knew Day 2 that he had been converted on Night 1 (...or Day 1). If he knew, that could explain Day 2 behavior. In such a situation saying DDS was Town or Wolf becomes a technicality. I guess he will win with Town since that is what is on his 'death certificate'.

To Ragians defence: Ragian is in the same timezone as me. Its midnight here.. And when i was on a ski-trip i can tell you 10pm is already very late because you wanna hit the slopes at 9am (so that means breakfast at 7.00)..yes i believe Ragian is deep asleep by now. He is in Sweden according to his flag so yes he is probably Skiing (his regular flag is Denmark).

But another yes too; i was thinking the same things how could he'd know that?... so perhaps Dega can explain it to some extent already?

Fair enough, then we shall wait until Ragian wakes up and checks in again.

[Votanic]

@ Traf: Have you beckoned Thor to come by?
Would it be permissable for me to PM or Wall him?
If he doesn't show up this puts Town in a predicament...
Will we just have to play the ball where it lands?

[SoN!c]

Yes i agree all the way Deg, it's just Thor seems to be the silent absent one.. And i was already thinking he would be the witch. I posted that already. So claiming the same role as the silent one seems a pretty good strategy. Do you blame me for that?

I've noticed that you seem to prefer complicated solutions over simple ones. Especially when they can be used to justify your preconceived notions. It's good to keep them in mind, but I think it's generally better to assume that things are as they appear until something no longer fits.

Yes absolutely. My weak point.. I know. It's just everybody should play their games like Bobby Fisher. Slaying the Sicilian Dragon... Fischer vs Larsen, 1958 (B77)..Winning the brilliancy prize...R Byrne vs Fischer, 1963 .. An attack on the king out of nowhere...Fischer vs Spassky, 1972.. Make it exciting??? It's a game man, shoot to thrill - play to kill.. Man i can't wait for the day im the bad guy. Occam's razor was 14th century playstyle. This is 21st century.. Spice it up? But yes. Your right Dega. I prefer complicated solutions over simple ones.

[*Pixar*]

Will posy either later tonight or tomorrow morningish. Birthday shenanigans

[Devante]

That's right I forgot about that. Well Happy Birthday Pix. Make sure you don't stay up too much past your bedtime and preferably have a few too many and come back and post here lol. Seriously though; Cheers and enjoy yourself

As for Thor, I did post on his wall when I stated it earlier just FYI for everyone

[degaston]

Ragian don't go to bed. Get back here, I have questions.
1. Exactly how were you told that Degaston was killed by wolves on Night 2 and that you could save him?
2. Why (do you think) Degaston was targeted by the Wolves over the other known Townies, such as myself or EW?

1. The description of the witch role in the manual seems pretty clear. Is there something about Ragian's claim that you don't think fits?

2. I can only guess, but I do seem to have a reputation here for thinking logically and being able to put together a wagon. (Even if I'm not always right) The scum probably prefer players who want to "spice it up" with wild-ass theories that add to the confusion.

[SoN!c]

Ragian don't go to bed. Get back here, I have questions.
1. Exactly how were you told that Degaston was killed by wolves on Night 2 and that you could save him?
2. Why (do you think) Degaston was targeted by the Wolves over the other known Townies, such as myself or EW?

1. The description of the witch role in the manual seems pretty clear. Is there something about Ragian's claim that you don't think fits?

2. I can only guess, but I do seem to have a reputation here for thinking logically and being able to put together a wagon. (Even if I'm not always right) The scum probably prefer players who want to "spice it up" with wild-ass theories that add to the confusion.

So im scum now - all the sudden - Deg? Are you gonna counterclaim Cupid?

[Votanic]

Shoot I was def sure you were on the max lynch there Dega. Bad call by me

@swang: I just looked up the Elementary Game myself (In case yu and Dega were pulling something.)

What he posted is the same as what is on the Elementary thread, and you seem to be agreeing that it is correct.

1. So you just recalled the game from memory, and thought Dega had voted for Max?
2. I'm also a bit curious why you would remember this game at all, since you are not listed as a player in it??

[Votanic]

Ragian don't go to bed. Get back here, I have questions.
1. Exactly how were you told that Degaston was killed by wolves on Night 2 and that you could save him?
2. Why (do you think) Degaston was targeted by the Wolves over the other known Townies, such as myself or EW?

1. The description of the witch role in the manual seems pretty clear. Is there something about Ragian's claim that you don't think fits?

2. I can only guess, but I do seem to have a reputation here for thinking logically and being able to put together a wagon. (Even if I'm not always right) The scum probably prefer players who want to "spice it up" with wild-ass theories that add to the confusion.

Gee... thanks Dega... but actually I asked Ragian those questions and I'd like an answer from him.