Soaps Role Madness! Town Wins!

[Votanic]

...and the idea of another Third Party winning by just surviving still exists... but if even if that is out there, it's just too cryptic to do anything about.

I can't believe that there would be more 3p than scum. That would be really weird, even for DDS.

If pmc is scum and doesn't have a double killing power, then this should work. My main concern is the possibility that Traf has some kind of a made up scum "Mad Hatter" role, where he was forced to give out hats to non-scum players. The only "evidence" I have for this is that I think giving the power hat to Kong on N1 was not the most pro-town use of it.

If Traf's role is that bizarre (and bastardly pre-programmed) then it probably would be 3rd Party... but I must doubt that.

[pmchugh]

...and the idea of another Third Party winning by just surviving still exists... but if even if that is out there, it's just too cryptic to do anything about.

I can't believe that there would be more 3p than scum. That would be really weird, even for DDS.

If pmc is scum and doesn't have a double killing power, then this should work. My main concern is the possibility that Traf has some kind of a made up scum "Mad Hatter" role, where he was forced to give out hats to non-scum players. The only "evidence" I have for this is that I think giving the power hat to Kong on N1 was not the most pro-town use of it.

I am starting to feel an immense amount of pressure. Basically the whole game is coming down to a 50/50 shot I need to take.

You have to admit that your use of hypnotist, a one shot power, on swang, right after vot publicly investigated him is kind of convenient timing.

[degaston]

You have to admit that your use of hypnotist, a one shot power, on swang, right after vot publicly investigated him is kind of convenient timing.

Yeah - two reasons for my actions:
1. I didn't think it was going to make any difference when I claimed to have targeted swang, since I knew one person already knew my role.
2. I didn't know what kind of blocking or redirecting roles might be out there, and I didn't get any report on my power, so I thought I'd wait until swang posted to see if it was successful. If it wasn't, then I might have been able to use it again the next night, but I thought it would be better if my role wasn't known by everyone.

I was a little confused about Vot asking for the investigation during the day, and Traf questioning me about my role, but then I claimed and asked Vot if he could change it. That's all I know.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Something might be odd here.

I though if dega is scum he would knew No lynch would win town the game.

If pmc is scum. maybe he wouldnt want the no lynch for the same reason. But he was also pushing for it.

I also think is the best way out. I will vote No lynch in the morning in case someone wants to say something else but I dont think we can really figure out what is going on here.

[degaston]

I guess if pmc is scum, then he must not have a double kill, or he would have just hammered the No Lynch.
If Traf is scum, then maybe he's worried that he might be the one to get vigged?

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I guess if pmc is scum, then he must not have a double kill, or he would have just hammered the No Lynch.
If Traf is scum, then maybe he's worried that he might be the one to get vigged?

If I get vigged and you are scum this is game over (I guess u could say the same thing). U sound so suspicious sometimes.

[Votanic]

After all the hard evidence has gone through the sieve, sometimes the final call must still be made on accumulated soft-tells. ...ironically enough.

PMC has repeatedly made me squint suspiciously lt at the screen during this game. If he is town, he didn't play it very believably.

HIs reaction to LC's 'Fall Guy' claim is the most notorious example, but there are others.

However, I must add that dega's reaction to the claim also pissed me off severely. It was his scummiest moment as well...

...and swang (scum) and strike (town, presumably) also said daft things about the 'Fall Guy' claim too.

At this point, I can only guess that any town defense of the 'Fall Guy' claim comes down to either being confused about the role or feeling sorry for LC's predicament.

[degaston]

However, I must add that dega's reaction to the claim also pissed me off severely. It was his scummiest moment as well...

It pisses me off when people think they know what a mod would or would not do. I had a "discussion" with DDS in "Vanilla Elementary Mafia" that went on for days with him arguing that there couldn't be any power roles in a "Vanilla" mafia game. (There were)

Just because you read that the Fall Guy sees himself as town doesn't mean that DDS is running the game according to your interpretation. We've seen examples of that in this game with the bodyguard, arsonist and hatter roles either not appearing in, or not matching the mafia.gg role list.

I also don't like it when people go all hyperbolic and tell lies about me, like when you said I was "unqualifiedly (almost rabidly)" defending LC's story.
I told LC he should claim, even after strike unvoted him, and used all kinds of qualifiers when I was discussing the possibility that his story was true. I voted for him, and said his story was probably bullshit. Some people may not go back and check the thread to see that you're not telling the truth, and that can negatively affect the game.

[degaston]

I guess if pmc is scum, then he must not have a double kill, or he would have just hammered the No Lynch.
If Traf is scum, then maybe he's worried that he might be the one to get vigged?

If I get vigged and you are scum this is game over (I guess u could say the same thing). U sound so suspicious sometimes.

Yes, I could say the same thing about you, but at this point, I don't think there's anything very useful to say because whatever anyone says is exactly what they would say whether they're town or scum. I'm tired, and I guess I'll go to bed.

[Votanic]

...arguing that there couldn't be any power roles in a "Vanilla" mafia game. (There were)

So then it was not a vanilla mafia game.

Folks can go running around spouting customized 'facts' and 'definitions' (2 + 2 = 5, etc), but it just don't make it so...

Ultimately, everyone needs to be called out on that, even mods (especially mods)...

[pmchugh]

I guess if pmc is scum, then he must not have a double kill, or he would have just hammered the No Lynch.
If Traf is scum, then maybe he's worried that he might be the one to get vigged?

Yeah I think I am pretty much cleared now. Coming up with the no lynch plan but not executing it just yet (but being willing to do so once I know who to vig) pretty much guarantees I am not scum, or at least, I have a very bad plan if I am.

I think with traf and dega, one of you is playing a blinder, by not objecting to the no lynch plan, you give nothing away and force me to decide based on less information. I guess it's not impossible the traf has a fourth hat he can use, or dega is actually investigation proof and one shot bulletproof godfather, and my plan is flawed and that's why there are no objections.

[pmchugh]

You know what, if traf mad hatter role is mafia aligned, I just swear off of DDS modded games. Going to kill dega tonight, and hope he isn't bulletproof.

[pmchugh]

After all the hard evidence has gone through the sieve, sometimes the final call must still be made on accumulated soft-tells. ...ironically enough.

PMC has repeatedly made me squint suspiciously lt at the screen during this game. If he is town, he didn't play it very believably.

HIs reaction to LC's 'Fall Guy' claim is the most notorious example, but there are others.

However, I must add that dega's reaction to the claim also pissed me off severely. It was his scummiest moment as well...

...and swang (scum) and strike (town, presumably) also said daft things about the 'Fall Guy' claim too.

At this point, I can only guess that any town defense of the 'Fall Guy' claim comes down to either being confused about the role or feeling sorry for LC's predicament.

In retrospect I was just blinded by possibility. Like, a lot of seemingly scummy people went for LC right out the gate for pretty flimsy reasons. I did think the way he claimed was bad and looks worse looking back.

[pmchugh]

I must say pmc looks a bit more suspicious than Dega rn. Can we figure out how all the deaths happened?

N1:
Rag/Arsonist - Shot, probably by mafia
Charle/Tracker - Stabbed, probably by Dev/Serial killer

N2:
Strike/(Jailer?) - Probably killed and cleaned up by swang? Also tageted by pmc???
Fusi/Doc - No cause of death (oversight by DDS?). Maybe killed by Dev?

N3:
Kong/Bodyguard - No cause of death
Dev/SK - No cause of death
Pixar/substitute Tracker - Shot, presumably by mafia.

I assume either Dev targeted Kong, or Kong was protecting Vot, and Dev targeted him. Probably the latter, because a Vot investigation of Dev probably would have outed him. I don't understand what killed Dev. Some other unknown mechanic?

FP'd by pmc.
At this point, I assume that there is a mafia left, and that they're investigation immune (otherwise, they probably would have gone after the cop), so I don't think being cop cleared is much of an alibi anymore.

I believe Vot (and myself ) are town, so from my perspective, that would mean it has to be either pmc or Traf. I never assume that I know what the mod would or wouldn't do, so I won't assume that either of your roles necessarily indicates a particular alignment.

But between pmc and Traf, I feel like pmc has been more suspicious the whole game, and that there are more questions surrounding his actions and statements.

Yeah, my role is a little lame, considering it's a one-shot, but it's all I've got.

I suppose it might have worked out better for me if I'd hit a townie to confirm my ability, but even that wouldn't have confirmed my alignment. Pmc, on the other hand, hasn't really confirmed his role in any way. He's been getting a pass since the cop investigation (which could have been tampered with), and has kept his claim to himself until today.

This is just speculation, but I think that if mafia had a goon and a janitor, then the third role in a game like this would probably have to be fairly powerful. Traf has proved that he gives out hats, and knows I claimed my role on N1, and it's hard to see how a hypnotist would be very useful for scum. All I know about pmc right now is that he says he can kill.

In degas own words, the last mafia would be investigation proof and pretty powerful.

Maybe I need to back out of this plan and risk unconfirming myself now. If dega is bulletproof godfather, then we do actually make it to day 5. I will know its dega, but I will have condemned myself.

[pmchugh]

EW and dega have done a great job, that claim night 1 is a bold lie and then being able to confirm it on swang with no cost is crazy. Then EW also argued a lot with Loose day 1, with them voting for each other, and he has been cop investigation cleared. I'm not even sure it's him still to this moment, so I can understand why you guys might be skeptical of me instead.

I'm now worried about the bulletproof scenario, which makes me look more suspicious and totally invalidates my no lynch defence, which sucks.

[degaston]

You know what, if traf mad hatter role is mafia aligned, I just swear off of DDS modded games.

I think the only reason he wouldn't do that is if he didn't think of it. But since he made up the hatter role on his own, he's obviously put some thought into it.

EW and dega have done a great job, that claim night 1 is a bold lie and then being able to confirm it on swang with no cost is crazy. Then EW also argued a lot with Loose day 1, with them voting for each other, and he has been cop investigation cleared. I'm not even sure it's him still to this moment, so I can understand why you guys might be skeptical of me instead.

I'm now worried about the bulletproof scenario, which makes me look more suspicious and totally invalidates my no lynch defence, which sucks.

I don't understand your hesitation.
If I'm a bulletproof godfather, and I'm still alive tomorrow, then whoever is left would lynch me no matter who I killed.
I don't understand Traf's hesitation either, for that matter. He wins whether he's scum or town.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I was just waiting to see if somebody else was saying anything.

I am not conviced by new evidence. So as promised

Vote No lynch

[Votanic]

DDS ain't gonna to make a bullet-proof godfather, ...not unless he's trying to assassinate his RL mod reputation...

[degaston]

DDS ain't gonna to make a bullet-proof godfather, ...not unless he's trying to assassinate his RL mod reputation...

So assuming pmc isn't scum (because if he is then there's no point in delaying) what are the options, then?
We had 2 killing 3rd parties, plus a 3rd party backup who could join either side.
Town had a Jailer who could interrogate and kill, and a Vigilante with unlimited kills, a Bodyguard who kills their attacker, and a Veteran/PGO.

And what did mafia get?
A goon and a janitor plus either...

• a godfather/hypnotist (or a godfather/nothing if my hypnotist claim was a complete fabrication)
• a scum hatter who may or may not also be a godfather?

... or a scum cop?!?

And you think DDS is worried about his modding reputation?
I think he lives for chaos.

[Votanic]

DDS ain't gonna to make a bullet-proof godfather, ...not unless he's trying to assassinate his RL mod reputation...

So assuming pmc isn't scum (because if he is then there's no point in delaying) what are the options, then?
We had 2 killing 3rd parties, plus a 3rd party backup who could join either side.
Town had a Jailer who could interrogate and kill, and a Vigilante with unlimited kills, a Bodyguard who kills their attacker, and a Veteran/PGO.

And what did mafia get?
A goon and a janitor plus either...

• a godfather/hypnotist (or a godfather/nothing if my hypnotist claim was a complete fabrication)
• a scum hatter who may or may not also be a godfather?

... or a scum cop?!?
Yeesh... okay, okay, we'll lynch you tomorrow, apologies for the delay.

And you think DDS is worried about his modding reputation?
I think he lives for chaos.

[Votanic]

DDS ain't gonna to make a bullet-proof godfather, ...not unless he's trying to assassinate his RL mod reputation...

So assuming pmc isn't scum (because if he is then there's no point in delaying) what are the options, then?
We had 2 killing 3rd parties, plus a 3rd party backup who could join either side.
Town had a Jailer who could interrogate and kill, and a Vigilante with unlimited kills, a Bodyguard who kills their attacker, and a Veteran/PGO.

And what did mafia get?
A goon and a janitor plus either...

• a godfather/hypnotist (or a godfather/nothing if my hypnotist claim was a complete fabrication)
• a scum hatter who may or may not also be a godfather?

... or a scum cop?!?
Yeesh... okay, okay, we'll lynch you tomorrow, apologies for the delay.

And you think DDS is worried about his modding reputation?
I think he lives for chaos.

Yeesh...okay, okay, we'll lynch you tomorrow. Apologies for the delay.

[degaston]

Yeesh... okay, okay, we'll lynch you tomorrow, apologies for the delay.

Huh?
I thought pmc was vigging me tonight?

[pmchugh]

Oh that hammer from traf. Too early, I wanted more info.

I honestly think it might be traf. He hasn't once argued for hypnotist to be a wolf role despite forcing dega to say that this morning.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Oh that hammer from traf. Too early, I wanted more info.

I honestly think it might be traf. He hasn't once argued for hypnotist to be a wolf role despite forcing dega to say that this morning.

I think we cannot really prove if he is a hypnotist or if its something the made up with swang.

As i said I fored him cause I thought u were the jailer. something we found out today to not be the case

[pmchugh]

Oh that hammer from traf. Too early, I wanted more info.

I honestly think it might be traf. He hasn't once argued for hypnotist to be a wolf role despite forcing dega to say that this morning.

I think we cannot really prove if he is a hypnotist or if its something the made up with swang.

As i said I fored him cause I thought u were the jailer. something we found out today to not be the case

That also works as scum though, you couldn't have known dev would die last night. If we killed dev today, we would be at 4 at night, you kill vot/me we are at 3 and you need to win an end game versus dega.