EW's Semi-Open Matrix Madness

[Ragian]

Adding Ragian to this 3 some just because he's always up to no good

Libel!!

[pmchugh]

I am slightly town reading Charle for mentioning that pmc has this move where he votes a fellow scum early on D1 and apparently did that in the forest game. That's not something I would have caught or knew myself and is interesting to know, and there's no reason to share that now if charle is scum.

however this doesn't mean I'm scum reading pmc. Still just neutral on pmc, just noticing that it is townish for Charle to share this intel.

I mean, I have several times across this game and the previous game mentioned how I am reading charle based off of his play from when we were scum mates, so it's unsurprising he is responding by trying to do the same, regardless of whether he is scum or town.

[Extreme Ways]

Votes cast so far:
Max - LC
LC - Vot
Charle - PMC

Did you see my questions?
If not, read chat.

UHHH.... What chat exactly? Scum slip? Could it be?

Vote Votanic

You doofus, I'm talking about this chat.
I asked EW a couple questions which you should have noticed if you weren't skimming by...
...and for that matter, EW should have noticed them too. I guess mods can skim worse than anyone.

So what now, Max? Are you trying to start another lynch-tunnel??
Well it's too late, because you already wrecked any town cred you had...
Even if you are town (looking more doubtful...) you're just bad, tunneling, town-lynching, skimming Town, so knock it off.

I have seen whatever you wrote in this chat about end-of-day.

The linked time in the timeanddate link has been followed. If you have other questions, feel free to ask me. I'm trying not to respond to questions in here because angleshooting, whether right or wrong, is fine by me.

[Votanic]

hmm...

[strike wolf]

It's been a busy week and I'm admittedly feeling a bit mentally exhausted by it. So this is just going to be a summary

I need to relook at Ragian in particular. He didnt catch my attention D1 and have found myself not fully following the accusations or defense well. PMC still seems odd to me but based on a Dev (I think?) comment, I think I need to relook into specifics. I do think Kong is skating a bit when I do feel like there was some play day 1 that was at the least odd if not suspect. Ultimately though, I don't see many scenarios where this day doesn't end with a Swang lynch since most of these suspicions arise from the way the lynch was shifted away from him yesterday.

I'm finding I don't really have many strong town reads. I still think LC is town and I lean slightly town on Charle but Id mark the rest as neutral to scummy.

[Votanic]

It's been a busy week and I'm admittedly feeling a bit mentally exhausted by it. So this is just going to be a summary

I need to relook at Ragian in particular. He didnt catch my attention D1 and have found myself not fully following the accusations or defense well. PMC still seems odd to me but based on a Dev (I think?) comment, I think I need to relook into specifics. I do think Kong is skating a bit when I do feel like there was some play day 1 that was at the least odd if not suspect. Ultimately though, I don't see many scenarios where this day doesn't end with a Swang lynch since most of these suspicions arise from the way the lynch was shifted away from him yesterday.

I'm finding I don't really have many strong town reads. I still think LC is town and I lean slightly town on Charle but Id mark the rest as neutral to scummy.

Okay, I actually largely agree with this post... and it seems townish of strike to write it.
I'm surprised he doesn't include me on his likely town list... but it's probably personal.
He doesn't like that I take no prisoners when calling out bad play, be it from player or mod!

Ragian is really playing differently, which makes his huge effort to lynch DDS (and thus save swang), look waay more scummy than Max's similar effort.
Speaking of personal, I think Max still had some beef with DDS from long before, like he felt he got left out of a previous game or something.

...and yeah, Kong was the de facto lynch hammer... and hasn't said much since. Just lying low?
He might try to cash in his noob credits to get away with it, but frankly, it doesn't take that long to figure out how to lie like scum.

Also I admit that in this scenario it becomes difficult to fit LC into the ranks of scum (Not impossible, just difficult...)
I just can't wrap my head around another townie deliberately emulating Sonic's playstyle. Talk about misplaced hero-worship...

So I guess it's time to put my vote where my mouth is.
Unvote, Vote Ragian

Yes, I also agree that ultimately the most logical lynch is probably swang and I'll jump on that bandwagon when it happens, no problem there.
But for now, let's turn up the burner under Ragian, ...god knows he deserves it.

[Votanic]

I do not mean to leave PMC, out of this analysis he alos voted for DDS early, but I kinda get the vibe that his vote was just a random side-effect of his goofy lynch-contract idea... which is a bad idea, but it still had some admirers*. I might be wrong about that, but still his vote seemed les purposeful for some reason.

I think this was the final list made for PMC's silly lynch club. As usuual, I'm the only one willing to go haul the data out of the archives.
The question mark beside strike wa sput there by PMC (Care to comment on that, strike?)
1. PMC
2. Kong
3. Charle
4. Rag
5. Strike?

I dunno, ...As usual, too many players acting weird, so they can't all be scum.
Why can't they just leave their sussy quirks at home and just play town right??
...and as said before, no real PRs likely to cut therough the fog either. Yeesh...

[pmchugh]

New vibes list

Town
Ragman - feeling a good connection here

Lean town
Dev
Loose
Strike, given how badly I read him last game, he is probably scum

Neutral
DDS, just feels different from other games
Charle, last game he was the most obvious towny in the world, less so thus game, but the gotcha on DDS seemed honest
Fusi, making less sense than usual while attempting to make sense
Kong

Lean scum
Vot, something isn't right here
Pixar, I just always think this
Swang, no contribution
Traf, who?

Scum
King, I am really feeling this one, but one thing is giving me pause, is it not a bit on the nose for scum to ask how scum kills work in the game thread?

As you can see, I thought something was off with DDS, but I couldn't really link that to scummy behaviour. Having said that, a bunch of the lean scum people were just like, you arent giving me much.

I kind of forgot about king in my busyness. One thing that is worth think about that few of us did is like, how would scum act in a world where all the lynch candidates were town after the lynch pact started to gain some momentum.

[pmchugh]

King hasn't posted since the 18th May, we may need some mod prods.

[Loose Canon]

Votes cast so far:
Max - LC
LC - Vot
Charle - PMC

Did you see my questions?
If not, read chat.

UHHH.... What chat exactly? Scum slip? Could it be?

Vote Votanic

From where I'm standing that was as likely to be a Scum (with no town cred) on Scum (with questionable town cred) vote as Anything Else.

[Votanic]

Votes cast so far:
Max - LC
LC - Vot
Charle - PMC

Did you see my questions?
If not, read chat.

UHHH.... What chat exactly? Scum slip? Could it be?

Vote Votanic

From where I'm standing that was as likely to be a Scum (with no town cred) on Scum (with questionable town cred) vote as Anything Else.

(...long, drawn-out sigh)
I do wish people would post more in this game, ...but not you. LC!

Every fibre of my perception screams out that yours is the worst sort of scummy behavior... and if others here could rise above their own apathy and acknowledge the obvious, maybe we could happily lynch you and thereby reduce this game's sheer number of pointless, and distracting nonsense-posts by more than half.

And if perchance, this scummy behavior is originating from a player actually cast as Town, ...then how miserably sad is that???

[Kingm]

King hasn't posted since the 18th May, we may need some mod prods.

I'm here reading everything, and trying to analyse it, but I find really really hard to "read" who is telling the truth and who is lying when we have like no "real info" at all to go with, but I'm starting to get a feel for who I think is def town, pointing a finger on one of the 3 potensial scums on the other hand is harder, but I feel I will throw in a vote later, when we have a time for when D2 ends.

[strike wolf]

Votes cast so far:
Max - LC
LC - Vot
Charle - PMC

Did you see my questions?
If not, read chat.

UHHH.... What chat exactly? Scum slip? Could it be?

Vote Votanic

From where I'm standing that was as likely to be a Scum (with no town cred) on Scum (with questionable town cred) vote as Anything Else.

Really? Because this just feels straight out of left field.

It's not untrue that I don't exactly take kindly to your constant and often unwarranted attacks on mods. It's a task that takes a lot of commitment without which these games aren't possible and I feel that deserves respect, not constant side swipes and barbs.

That said, I also leave you off my town list because a lot of your behavior seems manipulative like how you misrepresented that Pixar post d1 or asking me a question and then casting suspicion on it because LC happened to post in between when you asked and when I answered. Then there's also the fact that you really want everyone to see you as basically confirmed town. Could probably make a drinking game out of reading this thread and taking a shot every time you try to say it. Town players who haven't had a serious case posed against them don't usually feel the need to keep pointing out their alignment.

That said, your behavior doesn't completely line up with your The Thing behavior as I remember it. You could have adapted your play since being more passive would have been a red flag but that's not really a super solid theory. So neutralish.

As far as PMC's post putting a ? Mark by my name. As I recall, I hadn't said yes to his lynch pact at that point but one of the others who signed onto it said that I seemed likely to do so. PmC seemed to really want me to sign on which I didn't find super suspicious in itself since he was just trying to push support onto his own idea. I did find it weirder that he seemed to change his tune on LCs ideas when it came to convincing LC to sign onto the lynch pact.

[Charle]

I am slightly town reading Charle for mentioning that pmc has this move where he votes a fellow scum early on D1 and apparently did that in the forest game. That's not something I would have caught or knew myself and is interesting to know, and there's no reason to share that now if charle is scum.

however this doesn't mean I'm scum reading pmc. Still just neutral on pmc, just noticing that it is townish for Charle to share this intel.

I mean, I have several times across this game and the previous game mentioned how I am reading charle based off of his play from when we were scum mates, so it's unsurprising he is responding by trying to do the same, regardless of whether he is scum or town.

I must say, I don't really have a play style yet, at this stage I am just posting what I honestly see here and try to analyse it the best I can with what we have.

I still think we are going to find something between Swang, PMC and Ragian and all mostly because of the end play of Day 1. I feel that Swang was protected by swinging the vote, and we should go and look who did it and why. PMC was "happy" to lynch both Swang and DDS, so why change the wagon if there already exist one. Ragian's full on campaign was obvious to get the lynch away from Swang and then there is Swang, the one they protected so much.

I might go around in circles, but I really could not see any answers for the above and if that is a certain play style, well then I guess this is my play style

[Loose Canon]

Theres a couple of posts here I want to respond to.

Strike I've got no feel on you whatsoever - which I guess is good play on your part - whatever you are. I am however for some reason finding your posts the most thought provocative.
(Perhaps its because of the mafia counterstrategy post you made - that has made me think - if so what would it be - and actually there is a rabbit hole of thought/discussion that I don't necessarily want to go down right now - except if it would be to provoke chat.)
Regarding PMC I didn't find his switch re me to be strange. I felt I had tentatively reached out to PMC first I applauded the lynch pact and it was perhaps a shame we couldn't merge strategies.
I am conscious with all players they may be town or may be mafia so there may come a point that I need to work with unlikely partners.
even Vot who along with Max I put as 60% town 40% mafia.

Charle - I don't like the focussing on end of day1 vote switch at all. I know its so so tempting because it felt unlikely to work at the time. But how many townies are we likely to mislynch by going through all the possibilities.
I still come back to Max suggesting the switch from no lynch to lynch DDS - without having to switch himself - was setting up DDS for a day2 lynch (in my assessment) - as being the most suss in that whole saga. And thats why he has my vote D2.

[Loose Canon]

And also regarding Vots gameplay being off although not like he was in the Thing game either.
( I have read that game thread twice)
Vot was the Thing in the Thing and he was caught. So it makes sense that he would seek to modify his gameplay from the Thing.

But he (rightly and to be applauded) has played blinders for Town and asks for applause for that.
You have my admiration for that Vot.
Maybe he would amend his game play from a winning formula (add some edginess to his play as a disguise)
But I think its more probable that he wouldn't (or at least not so much as he has)
So to me I've got to hold Vot in my suspicions even though I think the probability of him being Town is about 60% (slightly less now 2 townies have gone).

[Ragian]

I am slightly town reading Charle for mentioning that pmc has this move where he votes a fellow scum early on D1 and apparently did that in the forest game. That's not something I would have caught or knew myself and is interesting to know, and there's no reason to share that now if charle is scum.

however this doesn't mean I'm scum reading pmc. Still just neutral on pmc, just noticing that it is townish for Charle to share this intel.

I mean, I have several times across this game and the previous game mentioned how I am reading charle based off of his play from when we were scum mates, so it's unsurprising he is responding by trying to do the same, regardless of whether he is scum or town.

I must say, I don't really have a play style yet, at this stage I am just posting what I honestly see here and try to analyse it the best I can with what we have.

I still think we are going to find something between Swang, PMC and Ragian and all mostly because of the end play of Day 1. I feel that Swang was protected by swinging the vote, and we should go and look who did it and why. PMC was "happy" to lynch both Swang and DDS, so why change the wagon if there already exist one. Ragian's full on campaign was obvious to get the lynch away from Swang and then there is Swang, the one they protected so much.

I might go around in circles, but I really could not see any answers for the above and if that is a certain play style, well then I guess this is my play style

And now you're just ignoring me. Could you explain yourself? I had a couple of posts directed specifically to you.

[Loose Canon]

For D2 voting strategy I'm going to suggest the following;

Put 2 players up for lynch vote and once those players are up we just lynch one or the other IF (until) Night Actions Do NOT (do) reveal a firm lynchee

First player to get 3 Votes D2 is the first candidate for lynching (could be the player Swang reveals he is most suss of)
The First candidate for lynching chooses the Second lynchee candidate.

Would make it a straight duke out between 2 players, could have later advantages, there's already been a lot of suspicions thrown around D1 already, mafia manipulation of votes is a possibility/probability whether we did this or not.

Does anyone want to argue this is a bad idea, or suggest something better?

Does anyone want to argue further against this?

If not I propose that anyone who hasn't cast their initial D2 vote should argue or vote now with the first player to receive 3 votes being the first candidate for lynching and the player to nominate the 2nd candidate for D2 lynching

[Charle]

I am slightly town reading Charle for mentioning that pmc has this move where he votes a fellow scum early on D1 and apparently did that in the forest game. That's not something I would have caught or knew myself and is interesting to know, and there's no reason to share that now if charle is scum.

however this doesn't mean I'm scum reading pmc. Still just neutral on pmc, just noticing that it is townish for Charle to share this intel.

I mean, I have several times across this game and the previous game mentioned how I am reading charle based off of his play from when we were scum mates, so it's unsurprising he is responding by trying to do the same, regardless of whether he is scum or town.

I must say, I don't really have a play style yet, at this stage I am just posting what I honestly see here and try to analyse it the best I can with what we have.

I still think we are going to find something between Swang, PMC and Ragian and all mostly because of the end play of Day 1. I feel that Swang was protected by swinging the vote, and we should go and look who did it and why. PMC was "happy" to lynch both Swang and DDS, so why change the wagon if there already exist one. Ragian's full on campaign was obvious to get the lynch away from Swang and then there is Swang, the one they protected so much.

I might go around in circles, but I really could not see any answers for the above and if that is a certain play style, well then I guess this is my play style

And now you're just ignoring me. Could you explain yourself? I had a couple of posts directed specifically to you.

LOL Rag, I am not ignoring you, just that it is not so important when you jumped on the wagon or started it, or whatever. Sorry, I made a mistake on when you started to vote DDS, you pointed it out and so be it. The scum part came thereafter when you wanted to swing the vote away from Swang to DDS. When you joined is irrelevant at this stage.

But we can leave it for now, it is just the way I see it, others seems not to agree and I respect their points of view as well. So I will see how this day turns out before I cast my vote.

[Extreme Ways]

Day 2 end countdown:
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/g ... nt=cursive

[swang918]

King hasn't posted since the 18th May, we may need some mod prods.

I'm here reading everything, and trying to analyse it, but I find really really hard to "read" who is telling the truth and who is lying when we have like no "real info" at all to go with, but I'm starting to get a feel for who I think is def town, pointing a finger on one of the 3 potensial scums on the other hand is harder, but I feel I will throw in a vote later, when we have a time for when D2 ends.

I am basically in the same camp, except I don't even have a feel for definite town either. If I posted a chum to scum list now, it would basically just read neutral all the way down. (Except for votanic, leaning scum for inarticulable vibes reasons).

So king if you have ppl you think are town, go ahead and post it and list the reasons, it will be helpful even if ppl disagree or it later turns out to be wrong.

[swang918]

I also agree with Loose that we shouldn't read too much into the swing off me and onto DDS at the end of D1. I don't like to do the "I know I'm town therefore...." thing, but really from my perspective the vote just swung from one town to another, so scum had no reason to jump on or off the late wagon against DDS. Obv I realize this reasoning isn't really going to be convincing to anyone else though...

[Kingm]

I have not been active at all since D1, and now I will be AFK a couple of days, but will be back long before the D2 deadline, but just wanted to give a heads up that I will not be able to respond if I'm promted or something, I think I will be back wednesday, maybe sooner.

And I will also promise to try to contribute more than I have, but I just feel like I have had not worthwhile to write since D1 ended.

[swang918]

Max's reason for voting vot is pretty bonkers. But I independently have my ever so slightly scum read on vot. So I kind of want to get silly with it and see what happens.

Vote Votanic

[Charle]

I also agree with Loose that we shouldn't read too much into the swing off me and onto DDS at the end of D1. I don't like to do the "I know I'm town therefore...." thing, but really from my perspective the vote just swung from one town to another, so scum had no reason to jump on or off the late wagon against DDS. Obv I realize this reasoning isn't really going to be convincing to anyone else though...

Thanks Swang, this was the type of response I was after. I must say, I actually believe you.