Friends & Enemies & Enemies & That Other Guy - Wolves Won

[Loose Canon]

Whilst Sonic is mulling over his wine, got to say how uncannily correct PMCs speed posting and reading of EW and Traf was. Just read it all again.
I just won't/can't see how I will be able to vote for PMC today.

That's 2 players now I can't see myself voting for D3.

Fpd by sonic

[SoN!c]

Are you getting uncomfy Loose? Feeling some unmasking nerve? You are repeating me on PMC's fast assesements.. i pointed out to you why his fast rereads must be town.Just saying.

[Loose Canon]

@Charle, is the spare mason pushing up daisies?

I'm less comfortable than I was previous days Sonic - for sure.
But probably still more comfortable than you should be for your mason fishing - again.

[pmchugh]

Wait, so there are 3 Factions, right? Masons the good townies, Werewolfs and Mafia. Werewolfs and Mafia don't know the other faction members right?
It can be 2 guaranteed kills on the night. but might not be a townie as factions cand hit each other I guess.

Yeah but just in case people misread you: town is a faction, mason is a neighbourhood within town.

The two evil factions need to eliminate the other faction too, this game can technically end in a draw for all 3 factions.

Helpful EW = scum EW. This game is easy. Three posts two scum (not aligned with each other).

I should have stopped here WTF.

[pmchugh]

I am kind of coming round to the idea it's Pepe + EW and Traf + Max. EW just never touches any of pepe's posts, despite being a helpful scum boy with a potential newbie to coach and Pepe accuses a lot of people and votes for a lot but never touches EW.

Traf accuses half the game but not max and has one post where it kind of reads like he is scolding Max for not being a good team mate;

At this point I almost want to vote myself out but I'm not sure it's allowed(?).

If u are town this is a poor attitude and its not helping

[Charle]

Rag, dead man chat is allowed here, so please say / keep saying your ideas from the tomb and comment this too please !

Force ghost Opi-One-Ragiani

Dead man chat is allowed between themselves, NOT HERE!!

[Charle]

Spare mason could be dead already couldn't he?
Didn't think Charle would declare if a dead town was spare mason??

Maybe, or maybe not. Just to have you all on ease, the dead ones know who the spare one was/is, to ensure the original role that was decided by a dice is in play and I do not change it afterwards to my liking.

[SoN!c]

I am kind of coming round to the idea it's Pepe + EW and Traf + Max. EW just never touches any of pepe's posts, despite being a helpful scum boy with a potential newbie to coach and Pepe accuses a lot of people and votes for a lot but never touches EW.

Traf accuses half the game but not max and has one post where it kind of reads like he is scolding Max for not being a good team mate;

At this point I almost want to vote myself out but I'm not sure it's allowed(?).

If u are town this is a poor attitude and its not helping

General consensus here was kinda Pepe = Pepe and Max = Max, and so both are rather townish. Only DDS has a big FoS on Pepe or said he thinks at least one of them is scum.

If you put them both in as town then you still need to find 2 scum in the other 3.

And then you start running scenario's with goal finding 2 scum (or 3 very sure town). Zilch result sofar.

Then you do look at them and realize Max has a free ride until now because there was no D1 lynch consensus. And then i think back on EW posting somewhere that "its nearly impossible to get D1 consensus". I remember that because when i read that i was thinking "so EW says he wants to lynch D1 to get the pressure on but in reality he does not want to lynch just like Traf for the better odds".


Now knowing they both flipped scum Traf was trying to look town but what was EW doing? He advocated D1 lynch so hard but only in the end did he place his vote on Max (the only train that had lynch potential). But that point you already had a feeling Max D1 lynch was not gonna happen.

If Max is EW's scumbuddy that is some good chess opening move grandmaster style. Giving Max a free ride. And also, i got to Max because Max was calling Ragian and LC scum the entire time. Then EW said LC is sure town.. if you put that all together then the Devante kill makes sense. EW and Max.

[Loose Canon]

Are you getting uncomfy Loose? Feeling some unmasking nerve? You are repeating me on PMC's fast assesements.. i pointed out to you why his fast rereads must be town.Just saying.

Sonic, on 28 Aug 6.54 I posted that I thought PMCs fast posts were evidence of towniness. It was the towniness evidence that struck me then/around that time.
No scum had been unearthed then.
In this game day I have been going round in circles on players.
Thought I would reassess PMCs fast post, amongst other things.
Now D3 with knowledge that EW and Traf are scum, I have now noticed how uncannily correct PMC was.

Just saying

Seen I've been fpd by Sonic - I'm off to work now will readily swap disses with you later or on Friday.

[Loose Canon]

Soinc I'm saying Max isn't EWs scum partner, fast read you saying your read is opposite?

[SoN!c]

Soinc I'm saying Max isn't EWs scum partner, fast read you saying your read is opposite?

Yes opposite. Not Traf + Max but EW and Max. That was my working theory yesterday when prodding you. Sorry for a good honest prodding but better be safe and sorry checking all corners.

I believe killing Devante was done to frame Ragian. Knowing EW's hand in it it probably has to be Max or you. Hence the prodding.

Also i had 3 solid townies: you + PMC and then EW because i felt he softclaimed mason between the lines. So I just needed to find one more townie. Looks like i was wrong on EW. But hey, EW softclaiming Mason was balsy. EW posted somewhere in the game "Rag is not a mason" ..

How could he say that when not being mason himself?

Anyways i like PMC's idea too. Haven't thought it tru yet. But it conflicts with the Devante kill. Only Max makes sense why EW killed Devante N1.

[SoN!c]

And with Max it all fits (EW). And in exactly the right amount of fairy dust subtility. Not way too thick, but just right.

Unless you realy think Devante was pure random?

[PepeAtila]

Spoiler

[quote="PepeAtila"]it's clear that someone is trying to make me look scum,...but there are two scums in the game and I'm not one of them...who will the two be? The day D1 I was voting trying to get information, I did read wrongly about Strike and DDS, so the day D2 I was just following DDS leadership I was feeling Traf was scum but people did vote Rag and then I voted Traf to see if anyone changed their vote after Rag's explanations... but nobody did it, and even the opossite: Rag and LC unvoted Traf, then I thought it was for nothing to wait more to hammer. day D3 I felt it was a 'good day' but there are people against me, anyway I think that WE (town) are going to win, because it is just easy to find the scums. I try to read the future: if we lynch a scum today (LC says 50%), tonight the other scum will kill 1 townie... ... so for tomorrow 3 townies and 1 scum. if we lynch a townie today (LC says 50%), tonight the scums can kill 2 people... for each of them there is 25% to kill the other scum faction and 75% to kill a townie ... so for tomorrow: 56% they will kill 2 townies, (1 town and 2 scums) 37% they will kill one scum and one town (2 town and 1 scum) and 7% they kill each other, (3 townies). I think these are approx the posibilities... All of this to say just think twice before lynch today... we have a lot of probabilities to win, but we have to be careful.

The Traf - posting/voting Pepe as scum
and
The Pepe - posting/voting Traf as scum
interactions and timing is what is making you Pepe look like ONE good option to vote to lynch D3.
I don't think they happened at a time when Traf was going to be lynched.
You may be Town and innocently caught up in something , but Trafs role in this in particular makes me think he might have been trying to keep his faction at 2 with a fruitless fake fight with you. And you have played into that suspicious possibility too.
So I'm not "framing" you surrepticiously , I'm being quite open about why you are ONE good possibility of a name that fits the frame.[/quote]

You confuse (intentional or not) the timing. If you look at what I said from the begining of D2, I hesitated between Traf or Rag ... In fact I guess Traf did vote me because I was trying to point him out ... but looking at it I realize you did unvote him just in case ... it was when I kept alone voting him ... why did you unvoted Traf? ...
summing up ... I don't know why Traf did vote me but reading your ways of thinking make me think he could be your partner.

" I'm not "framing" you surrepticiously , I'm being quite open about why you are ONE good possibility of a name that fits the frame."

[PepeAtila]

Okay, sitting in a bar on Crete. Just arrived. Sipping white wine. Processing all the stuff. Great game. Ffs, who can imagine this lol. Better then watching TV or netflix..

So;First question that needs good answering from Pepe:

Why did you hammer Rag?..LC or "mason" EW were to hammer Rag when the moment would be fit for it, not before.

And why voting Traf while you clearly saw it was a noose on Rag with sure hammer in the end if Rag defended himself poorly. What would that vote on Traf bring to town? You even said "willing to change to Rag if needed but i think others will hammer Rag or something like that. So why do you vote Traf at that moment, why don't you wait on how Rag's case will unfold first?

FP by Loose

I told to wait till monday finished and then I did vote Traf (who had 2 more votes) to give an alternative, when Rag and LC unvoted Traf the option were clear nobody did unvote Rag and I did as I said before.
That is why I said I understand why Rag unvoted Traf, but not why LC did it.

Vote Count:

Ragian (4) - PMC, DDS, Sonic, Max
Traf (2) - Ragian, LC

No Vote (3) - Traf, Pepe, EW

9 Alive - 5 needed for a lynch

Before monday and trying to give an oportunity to Rag (anyway I think there are people to hammer him, but if it is necesary I can change my vote).
vote Traf

[Loose Canon]

Ok Pepe I understand where you're coming from if you're town but also if you're scum, this is where I'm at;

PMC and Sonic either or both could be scum, but I can't see anything to link them to either EW or Traf, and so far if they are scum they have been impenetrable to me as far as scum reads go.
Max I don't know either way but I don't think he is linked to EW and that makes him bad maths to vote for. (his general tendency to post little makes him impenetrable to scum reads)
DDS I can't link to either EW or Traf - my read is he is Town. He may be a bit more penetrable (than PMC or Sonic) for scum reads if scum though - I've seen (and pointed out) unusual but I've concluded not scummy to me per se things he's posted.

Pepe you could be with EW as much as PMC Sonic or DDS could be, however to me you're more likely to be with Traf than PMC, Sonic, Max or DDS are.

I don't know - maybe see if you can penetrate DDS - you'd have to get past his flaming hot large community sword though - good luck with that!

[SoN!c]

Fact: EW killed Devante N1.

Fact: Devente is the odd man out on the scum kills.

Fact: EW is a chessplayer. A chessplayer making a stupid random vote? While he could have chosen Traf N1? Random is Vot's play not EW,'s.. and what scumpartner could make EW change his opinion on that?

When pigs fly in space is my read on that. Devente was EW's grand opening knight moves.

So Max fits. I can't see it any other way. The partner of EW, whoever it is, must have played a small roll in framing Rag and in the chess game of life EW planned out. And im sure EW did not expected Traf seeing tru that opening move. But scum brain 1 took out scum brain 2 and vice versa. So the grand plan died with EW. And Max went silent after that. It was like he got reminders all the time to post something.. and now he is alone.

If its not Max then Who? Because:
Its all tied to killing Devante N1 with clear chess strategy in place if you ask me.

[Charle]

Vote Count:

F*** All Votes

No Votes (6) - DDS, Sonic, pmc, Loose, Max, Pepe

[SoN!c]

Im gonna go with what i believe in. Devante kill is the key and Max fits that profile. Richard Lionheart style "once more into the breach". I think EW-Max and if PMC thinks Traf-Max thats a good fail safe either way.

Vote Max

Let's play ball gentlemen.

[Loose Canon]

Sonic,

EW may well have driven the Devante kill.
EW may well have persuaded any of us to go along with that.
I guess you are saying Max and Pepe are more easily led - I'll grant you a possibility/probability of that - but not necessarily.
What links Max more to that kill than Pepe?
What are you seeing that I'm not?

In fact I'm saying EW put enough pressure on my Max lynchwagon D1 that he couldn't have back off IF it had gathered more steam - and it might have done.
NO I can't see Max and EW linked at all at all.
It makes Max a bad vote for D3 because Max can only be linked with Traf.

Pepe on the other hand could be linked to EW, and there is also the evidence I am seeing that Pepe and Traf are linked.

Pepe is a much stronger vote than Max.

Vote Pepe

[SoN!c]

Look, Vot once won a game free riding like Max here.

You don't wanna go for Max after D1 strongly advocating to kill him?

Ofcourse I don't know the big Grand Masonic Lodge architect G plan of the Heavens here but i think if id know a bit this was a lot easier to solve..

Also i like the saying I''ll take Ass, Grass or Cash, but nobody rides for free". And I think you are wrong but fact is: 2 masons left. If they both think im wrong (or right) they will give a signal?. Just not that many signals that contradict each other please so i know what signal to follow..?

All i can say is: if Max is no mason this will go sour real fast.

But i'll follow.

Unvote

Vote Pepe

[Loose Canon]

OK Sonic,

I want to hear from DDS, Max and PMC where they would be on a Pepe vote.

Also IF it looked like it might happen I might unvote for a while to give Pepe space to claim Mason.
I might also want time myself to post legacy thoughts for D4 because I may not survive the night.
But if I' did unvote rest assured I would be ready to vote Pepe again - at least as things stand now.

Regarding your wish for some Masonic signalling;

I say this in jest or maybe not;

DDS has been waving his Raging Community Sword that is So Large it Should be Held by the Community around furiously.

Perhaps its been in your face all along Sonic?

[PepeAtila]

Just to the reminder ... I suspect about LC linked with Traf
keep it in mind if you lynch to me.

[pmchugh]

I am not buying EW + Max. EW would have to be fully committed to throwing his one partner under the bus since day 1.

[pmchugh]

Since we have votes on DDS Traf and Max can I ask DDS and Traf assuming you don't get lynched;

In your opinion which player if they were scum do you think would be most likely to kill you N1 ?

(Max can answer too if he would be kind enough to grace us with his presence)

I will answer this too if it helps you figure out my alignment.

As scum I'd try to kill people who are the other scum faction and strong players. Basically, my scumreads whom I would fear would find me as scum. I dont know who that would be currently considering I'm not scumreading the more active strong players much atm, so maybe I would just kill Sonic? Or Traf/Kong

Notable that EW said this, if he thought someone might be scum, he probably isn't advertising it or he would look sus.

[pmchugh]

I have decided I like Max to go over despite what Rag says. He's right, we can't take any defense or push on him as info because there's no posts of his to attack or defend. Chance that a townie defends town!Max because he's low hanging fruit is as high as a scummie thinking it might get him good boy points. Chance that someone defends scum!Max is also very justifiable because anyone can hide behind the "well there was exactly a random chance that he was scum given that he didnt give us anything".

That being said, I also dont want to get into an endgame where we have to rely on Max to vote correctly or do something. Imagine worst case scenario: overnight both scums kill townies, and we lynched a townie in Max. Is this really worse than being in the same scenario with a townie in Max? We will have this same debate again on whether Max is allowed to live another day.

Town gets a couple lynches this game, I didnt check the previous games but after 2 nights theres likely 4 nightkills UNLESS one scum party gets wiped out n1. Imo a Max lynch satisfies the "always lynch" crowd despite it being a meh lynch as well as a "no lynch" crowd because they also dont want to ask themselves the same questions tomorrow.

vote max

I guess it was just one post but still. Do you really risk this day 1 in multi faction?