The unholy story of Count Giure "Grando" Stregone TOWN WINS!

[*Pixar*]

Maybe my joke vote on Vot is correct

[Extreme Ways]

Vampire is a mason/mason becomes a vampire once dead?

Hmm, Yes, having the Striga also be a Mason would truly be Ultra-Bastard.

I really liked EW's post of why town needs to lynch someone on D1 in the previous game (the fact that if you do not lynch, you hand the first move over to scum at Night 1). Having said this, in that game EW was scum, so EW this is to you now, do you still think this theory is good for this game?

Nice Catch 22 here. Might as well answer it EW, ...because it will also be scummy if you ignore it.

Although I agree with rag, I am not a fan of flavour reading generally because it's easy for scum to engage with it without any fear of slipping up because its abstracted from the players, its just reading the mod, which no players know. In this game the mod seems to be encouraging it and actually giving us info that might be relevant so I will let people away with it for now, but none of it counts as reading players which is the most townie activity that exists.

FOS at PMC (and rag) for casting ungrounded suspicions on players engaging with the game and its flavor (self included), ...while also likely (and hypocritically) benefitting frome any flavor analysis provided. Flavor Appreciation is not alignment-indicative.

..and also take note, all the votes so far are only joke-votes (or scum simulations thereof).
So everybody is going to just treat them like jokes, right? ...right?!?

I have been in favour of lynches in every game I played. I was in fact happy with the no lynch and spent the last week of extended day 1 afk in that game, instead of trying to get someone other than Max to go over.

[Extreme Ways]

vote votanic
I vibe with PMC and Rag, and think Votanic's comment scumreading their feelings about flavour-reading is over the top.

Pmc is saying that he expects people to do more than just read into flavour. Also misrepresents Rag's point, which I will hereby try to explain to Vot:

Flavour reading is easy to hide behind because it's a hypothetical. It may even be possible to push town on the wrong path if scum (or vampires?) know the whole setup. We dont know whether they know anything more about the setup other than their own roles. We are lucky in that the mod has confirmed some flavour readings, but that doesnt make the people saying the right things town.

Heck, I may be scummy for saying this game may have bastard elements if I know that my scum party does not contain any bastard elements. It's an assumption I have while I am town and was then confirmed, but this post of mine was, in a vacuum, very much not townie. If someone gets a red check tomorrow I can easily say "Hey i already said this is a bastard setup".

[DirtyDishSoap]

Vots an over the top person. I'm hardly going to find that to be scummy.

[Ragian]

Rag are you serious you have a possible scum tell on vot or are you just shaking any tree to see what falls out?

Well, to be honest, I was just making a point, and then when it was misrepresented (or not understood), I engaged. This might be what you call shaking the tree... Then Vot got the game he brought up wrong, which weirded me out, but no, I'm not scumreading him just now. I'm more along the lines of DDS's thoughts. In The Thing, Vot seemed more forthcoming as scum - if you can believe that.

EW, however, seems it's worth a vote.

[Charle]

I must say, I agree with DDS, I don't see Vot scummy either. It is only the start of the game and to put a few lines in the water is fine with me, we will catch that big fat fish sometime!

[Devante]

My bad, here we go in red UNVOTE

[pmchugh]

2 questions

Rag are you serious you have a possible scum tell on vot or are you just shaking any tree to see what falls out?

Vot you said you were going to play slightly differently in the pregame chat.
Care to tell us now how you are going to play differently - if you still intend to?

What is the point in the first question now? If someone was shaking the tree, stating this lessons the impact.

Certainly not detecting a change in playstyle from vot.

Early vibe on EW is town, already feels much more alive than previous game, and voting vot here would feel too bandwagony as scum that I think he would avoid at least until after charle and DDS defended him.

[Extreme Ways]

but I want to be lower in the readlists

[SoN!c]

Official vote count :


Votanic (2) - Pixar, EW
Loose Canon (1) - PMC
DDS (1) - Fusi

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

[DirtyDishSoap]

I must say, I agree with DDS, I don't see Vot scummy either. It is only the start of the game and to put a few lines in the water is fine with me, we will catch that big fat fish sometime!

Off topic, but every time you type "I must say" i keep imagining this dork.

[Extreme Ways]

I must say, I agree with DDS, I don't see Vot scummy either. It is only the start of the game and to put a few lines in the water is fine with me, we will catch that big fat fish sometime!

Well, am I not doing exactly that?

[Extreme Ways]

When I barely read the game (whether it's here or elsewhere) I tend to put some strong opinions out to see how people respond to them. They are opinions I believe in but worded a bit stronger than my actual belief in them.

For the current gamestate, I think my vote on Vot is absolutely justified. i dont necessarily think he is scum, but I do think he has a higher chance than random to be scum.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

When I barely read the game (whether it's here or elsewhere) I tend to put some strong opinions out to see how people respond to them. They are opinions I believe in but worded a bit stronger than my actual belief in them.

For the current gamestate, I think my vote on Vot is absolutely justified. i dont necessarily think he is scum, but I do think he has a higher chance than random to be scum.

Do you think Sonic might have handed roles instead of going random?

[Votanic]

When I barely read the game (whether it's here or elsewhere) I tend to put some strong opinions out to see how people respond to them. They are opinions I believe in but worded a bit stronger than my actual belief in them.

For the current gamestate, I think my vote on Vot is absolutely justified. i dont necessarily think he is scum, but I do think he has a higher chance than random to be scum.

Do you think Sonic might have handed roles instead of going random?

Funny you should suggest that since the only recent game I supected of not being fully random was your Werewolf game, ...but you denied it.

[Votanic]

Hmm…
I taste an ill-flavoured broth beginning to brew. Can I salvage this soup? Only if the ingredients are not scum-rotten. ...and in this game at least one or two of them already is.

Firstly, let me restate The Basic Day One Dynamic.
• Town players do not know who anyone else is. Therefore, all inuendo and doubletalk is either poor play by townies or scummy play by scum.
• Scum on the other hand. already knows scum from non-scum, with the latter being mostly Town, maybe also Third-Parties. It therefore behooves them to plant innuendos, rumors, fake-reads, and non-jokes masquerading as jokes wherever they can.
For example: Pixar, with two post-confimation posts so far. First he 'joke' votes me because my name begins with 'V' and then he comes back to say maybe his dumb joke isn't a joke (...so then just dumb?) Analysis: If he is Town this is just a poor and a play waste of time. If he is scum then it's malicious groundwork.

Secondly,

When I barely read the game (whether it's here or elsewhere) I tend to put some strong opinions out to see how people respond to them. They are opinions I believe in but worded a bit stronger than my actual belief in them.

For the current gamestate, I think my vote on Vot is absolutely justified. i dont necessarily think he is scum, but I do think he has a higher chance than random to be scum.

I hate getting into a back-and-forth OMGUS situation., ...but EW knows enough to not do this if he is Town.
So why then is he being inflamatory without sufficient evidence?? It is inarguably scummy behaviour.

Thirdly, in response to LC's question. So far my playstyle has not radically changed because I do like to start out directly confronting scummy and/or poor-town plays, ... but at some point, if/when the game-brew becomes overly toxic (continuing with the soup metaphor), I might just take a big step back and contribute less often and more selectively. no one in this game is a novice, so exceptionallyly poor town plays should begin to diminish, ...thereby leaving whatever remains to appear ever more scummy.

Fourthly, I did not misrepresent or misremember The Thing game.
Here is a link to the exact post in The Thing game where I caught ragian lying about watching the movie.
Of course, the actual lie was only tangential to gameplay and not worth fibbing about, but the damage to ragian's reputation was ultimately lethal.
...and yes, such an incident can easily cast a long meta-shadow on subsequent games.
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=240263&start=400#p5304903

[pmchugh]

I feel like vot does this same process every game;

1. Vot posts something controversial in an over opinionated way
2. Someone interprets this as potentially scummy
3. Vot goes OMGUS and says you cant possibly read, you must be scum or bad
4. More people interpret the OMGUS as scummy and the process repeats
5. No one listens to vot but he volume posts enough that we becomes valuable and people stop suspecting him.

I swear this is like the 3rd or 4th game exactly like this.

I feel like I need some vot wolf meta reading to see if it's any different.

[Votanic]

I feel like vot does this same process every game;

1. Vot posts something controversial in an over opinionated way
2. Someone interprets this as potentially scummy
3. Vot goes OMGUS and says you cant possibly read, you must be scum or bad
4. More people interpret the OMGUS as scummy and the process repeats
5. No one listens to vot but he volume posts enough that we becomes valuable and people stop suspecting him.

I swear this is like the 3rd or 4th game exactly like this.

I feel like I need some vot wolf meta reading to see if it's any different.

Well, I do like to stand back and point out the larger, underlying processes at work, because I truly think it helps Town.
The alternative is to for everybody to just do a bunch of quasi-random bumper-car jabs at each other and see where Day 1 ends with that.
I describe that method as quasi-random, because it IS random if a player know-nothing Town, ...but NOT random if wiseguy Scum
...and that means the overall process is advantageous to Scum.

[Ragian]

You however, tunneled in on me because you hate flavour, ...and in the process got caught lying about your own knowledge of the movie.
This dishonest, self-caused scummy appearance of yours ultimately led to your being lynched, ...even though you were town.

Misrepresentation. I don't hate flavour. I "tunnelled" on you because you ONLY talked about flavour and did no player reading at all. Also, I was right. Moreover, it didn't get me lynched.

Fourthly, I did not misrepresent or misremember The Thing game.
Here is a link to the exact post in The Thing game where I caught ragian lying about watching the movie.
Of course, the actual lie was only tangential to gameplay and not worth fibbing about, but the damage to ragian's reputation was ultimately lethal.
...and yes, such an incident can easily cast a long meta-shadow on subsequent games.
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=610&t=240263&start=400#p5304903

You're quoting D2. I wasn't lynched till endgame (D5) where it was obvious to Dega and Strike (I think it was) that I was the only possible conversion.

It's also nice how you change your tune from your first post about The Thing. From:

This dishonest, self-caused scummy appearance of yours ultimately led to your being lynched, ...even though you were town.

To:

Of course, the actual lie was only tangential to gameplay and not worth fibbing about, but the damage to ragian's reputation was ultimately lethal.

No one cared about me messing up whether or not I had seen the film. I got lynched endgame because there was a delay in recruitment and it was obvious that I was the final recruit. There was no "damage" to my reputation (LOL) in that game, and, I repeat, I caught you as The Thing because you hid behind flavour analysis and did nothing else. I know that doesn't fly in your world of things where you do no wrong and if bad stuff happens, it's due to external forces such as setup, bad play by others, or natural disasters, but yeah, you're misrepresenting the game. Luckily, Charle, Strike, Traf, Pixar, and EW played that game too, so they know that you're fibbing to save face (or whatever reason you have for doing this).

---

@PMC, the only meta I have on Vot as scum is from that game. He was non-committal and didn't go into fights until it was brought to his doorstep. Here, he seems to be picking a fight (even if he's picking the wrong one for the wrong reasons). I'd say that he hasn't come off as scummy just yet. Unless you count this misrepresentation as lying, but I don't think it's a malicious, scummy lie. It's more of a world picture kind of misrepresentation that probably doesn't even come off as misrepresentation to him.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Just seems more like a personal grudge if anything, but then again, Vot stirs the pot with everything that comes across his path. The man could write an angry thesis of why the grass in his front yard should be greener. Anywho! Personal jabs aside, let's skip the flavor and speculate the bastard aspect. Not a huge fan of it, but I'm generally curious as to what is going to screw town over

[Votanic]

More misrepresentation and double talk, ragliar,
Those two quotes of mine you've taken don't show any "tune-change".
Both quotes refer to how the innate scummy dishonesty of your character taints your representation, unfortunately even when are cast as town.
Just like Flavour analysis doesn't show any alignment indication despite you repeatedly trying to imply it soes, in this game and that one.
You repeatedly do things like this because you know/hope that many players won't read critically, ... instead just taking your under-handed 'soundbite' as fact.

It's also nice how you change your tune from your first post about The Thing. From:

This dishonest, self-caused scummy appearance of yours ultimately led to your being lynched, ...even though you were town.

To:

Of course, the actual lie was only tangential to gameplay and not worth fibbing about, but the damage to ragian's reputation was ultimately lethal.

[Votanic]

Just seems more like a personal grudge if anything, but then again, Vot stirs the pot with everything that comes across his path. The man could write an angry thesis of why the grass in his front yard should be greener. Anywho! Personal jabs aside, let's skip the flavor and speculate the bastard aspect. Not a huge fan of it, but I'm generally curious as to what is going to screw town over

So far, such bastardness is just entirely speculation (unless Scum knows something..),
...and that speculation has mostly been mostly generated by EW out of thin air, ...without any particular evidence, or openly-known reason for doing so.

[Ragian]

Q.E.D.

---

@DDS, what do you want to speculate?

[Charle]

My experience is that Vot is always scummy until he do a brilliant discovery with his investigation role and then becomes the Town Hero

FP by Ragian

[Extreme Ways]

My experience is that Vot is always scummy until he do a brilliant discovery with his investigation role and then becomes the Town Hero

FP by Ragian

This sounds accurate.

Don't forget that the setup is always scumsided.

PMC/Rag town. This is probably town vs town violence.

unvote