Gun laws

[Anarkistsdream]

O, becaue an article in a NRA magazine is going to be so unbiased isn it? You cant use that as a source of evidence, its like using a BNP manifesto to prove that black people are all evil, dangerous, violent criminals.

You can not show bias on a blatant factual account. The stories are gathered from law enforcement agencies around the country. They are factual accounts of real events, without any spin put on them...

They may be factual but they exagerate the events in their favour, and leave out key details which do not help. Just like the 9/11 conspiracies, they only include the parts that they want to, and leave out other parts.

If you are going to take stories from an extremist gun lobbying group seriously and will believe every word in that magazine, then you need to get a reality check.

If you haven't read the magazine, then I don't think you have a leg to stand on... Police reports can NOT be changed and then published... It is against American law... No idea how it is in the UK.

I won't argue about this fucking topic anymore, because, it is just like religion. You are not going to be swayed, and there is a valid counterpoint to every point. No one wins, and everyones opinions remain the same.

I AGREE there should be stricter gun laws... In fact, I have said that more than once through here... However, I will NEVER give up my rights that I was BORN with.

I am a resopnsible gunowner... I will continue to be one.

Have you ever shot a gun? I assume most of you that are so against firearms probably haven't, and were probably raised by parents who felt the same as you do. I feel I can SAFELY assume this, even if some of you were in the military and shot, most of you haven't.

*shrug*

It's like arguing about religion... And I hate arguing about religion...

I respect your opinions, Guis, Titanic, and Heavy... Hope you guys can respect mine, even if you don't understand.

[heavycola]

Dude, i do repect your opinions but would never pretend to understand them. It is embedded in your constitution and therefore your national psyche. But the link between gun homicides and gun laws is SFobvious... seems to me if anyone gives a shit about reducing the amount of gun deaths, you need to reduce the amount of guns. It seems so obvious and so simple and that's why i can't understand. But i will leave it at that because as you say, there can;t really be any common ground.

[b.k. barunt]

Again, you seriously think that the government would let you own guns if they seriously thought it was a threat to their power? Governments don't suddenly declare dictatorship and marshall law, its a gradual process... Remember everyone welcomed Hitler when he arrived on the scene![/quote] Guiscard, you prove my point without realizing it. "A gradual process" - which is how they are attempting to disarm the populace. Since the attempted assassination of Reagan, beginning with the Brady Bill, there has been a concerted effort by the government to disarm the citizens. Personally i think the attempted assassination of Reagan proved the need for that constitutional amendment, and i wish there was a true patriot around who would do us all a favor and blow away that cheesewanker with the phony Texas accent. Cheers.

[Titanic]

Anarkist, I would like to repsect your opinion. Just a quick question, do you believe that the more people who have guns, the safer USA should be?

I respect your beleif that you want a gun, and deserve it. You seem rational and a non-psychopath, but there is no reason why everyone should have guns. Strict gun laws like here, where you can have one but it takes a lot of effort and background checking etc.. are good. Then only sane people will get heir hands on them.

I just cannot accpet the opinion that if everyone has a gun the world will be a safe place.

[Anarkistsdream]

Anarkist, I would like to repsect your opinion. Just a quick question, do you believe that the more people who have guns, the safer USA should be?

I respect your beleif that you want a gun, and deserve it. You seem rational and a non-psychopath, but there is no reason why everyone should have guns. Strict gun laws like here, where you can have one but it takes a lot of effort and background checking etc.. are good. Then only sane people will get heir hands on them.

I just cannot accpet the opinion that if everyone has a gun the world will be a safe place.

No way, Titanic... Yo uare 100% correct in your assumption that less guns means less violence.... There is no refuting that fact. I am only a steadfast believer that I am a responsible human being... I can not attest for anyone else.

I would think that MORE guns would lead to MORE idiotic deaths and violence. And I am more than willing to jump through the beauracratic hoops I would have to for my firearm.

The problem is there is a VERY fine line between putting restrictions on them and attempting to ban them. And as soon as Americans start giving up freedoms, the government fucks us in the ass... Look at the Patriot Act- that was something we did not even get to VOTE on!!!

I hate the U.S., but I believe in personal freedom... So I want my gun.

[Iz Man]

Anarkist, I would like to repsect your opinion. Just a quick question, do you believe that the more people who have guns, the safer USA should be?

I respect your beleif that you want a gun, and deserve it. You seem rational and a non-psychopath, but there is no reason why everyone should have guns. Strict gun laws like here, where you can have one but it takes a lot of effort and background checking etc.. are good. Then only sane people will get heir hands on them.

I just cannot accpet the opinion that if everyone has a gun the world will be a safe place.

There's a county in Georgia that requires all residents to own a weapon.

Crime rate is near 0.

Want to take my weapon? You're welcome to try.

[Guiscard]

Guiscard, you prove my point without realizing it. "A gradual process" - which is how they are attempting to disarm the populace. Since the attempted assassination of Reagan, beginning with the Brady Bill, there has been a concerted effort by the government to disarm the citizens. Personally i think the attempted assassination of Reagan proved the need for that constitutional amendment, and i wish there was a true patriot around who would do us all a favor and blow away that cheesewanker with the phony Texas accent. Cheers.

What I'm saying is that firearms amongst the general populace in this day and age would do precious little to protect against some kind of dictatorship or government that you didn't like the look off. There's no point holding on to the outdated concept of an armed militia because that armed militia will be welcoming in the tyrannical government with open arms! We can safely discard that as a need for guns...

Anarkist, to be honest it seems you're saying a lot of the same things I was from the beginning at this point. Although some did, I never said you shouln't have the right to own a gun... I think this thread is petty much argued out now to be honest.

[Anarkistsdream]

Anarkist, to be honest it seems you're saying a lot of the same things I was from the beginning at this point. Although some did, I never said you shouln't have the right to own a gun... I think this thread is petty much argued out now to be honest.

I think I am very smart and an excellent writer until I am REALLY trying to make a point. I am good writing editorials because I usually feel little passion for the discussion. Had I made myself more clear from the bginning, we probably would have resolved OUR conversation hours ago... I can't speak for the other convos in here. hah

[sfhbballnut]

If the general public isn't allowed to bear arms only the bad guys will have them

[Titanic]

Ok, Anarkist, I agree with you, as with Guidcard. Regulations should be in place, and the system should be under control. We have the same beliefs, although you seem to want a slightly less lax system, but still rigid, whilst I prefer a system like here in the UK where it is barely worth the effort to geta gun legally.

[Aimless]

But the link between gun homicides and gun laws is SFobvious

Errrr... no. No, it's not.

By far the highest rates of gun crime in the US occur in areas where it is illegal to carry handguns.

What is obvious is the link between easy access to guns and gun crime, because criminals will always default to the best tools around for doing their job, which means when they can, they will default to handguns. What is not obvious is whether or not there is a clear link between gun control laws and the prevalence of handguns.

Gun crime is rare in the UK because the UK seems to have successfully made handguns rare. No matter what laws get passed, this will never happen in America. And, besides, people should not be talking about the UK system as a great triumph of gun control - the only statistic in which the UK does better than the US is in the murder rate. For all other crimes, the UK does worse, sometimes far worse.

And, two final points :

One, I'm surprised no one has brought up the horrible gun crime rate in Switzerland, since the adult population is required to own guns. Oh, wait - that's because Switzerland doesn't have a gun crime problem.

And two, just a general question for those of you who think stricter gun laws will stop school shootings and the like - how many school shootings have there been perpetrated by law abiding gun owners?

[Anarchist]

Again, you seriously think that the government would let you own guns if they seriously thought it was a threat to their power? Governments don't suddenly declare dictatorship and marshall law, its a gradual process... Remember everyone welcomed Hitler when he arrived on the scene!

Guiscard, you prove my point without realizing it. "A gradual process" - which is how they are attempting to disarm the populace. Since the attempted assassination of Reagan, beginning with the Brady Bill, there has been a concerted effort by the government to disarm the citizens. Personally i think the attempted assassination of Reagan proved the need for that constitutional amendment, and i wish there was a true patriot around who would do us all a favor and blow away that cheesewanker with the phony Texas accent. Cheers.[/quote]

3 Cheers to you and the county in Georgia

[2dimes]

If the general public isn't allowed to bear arms only the bad guys will have them

There's the rub, isn't it?

Every sane person should agree that there is no need for guns where there is not that many bears, wolves, lions or the like. However since they're handing them out, I want one too.

I think everyone should have a gun, then when two assholes get into an argument...

[Anarchist]

2 dimes

I think Ted Nugent said it best of all

[Jenos Ridan]

why would u worry about a monk with an AK i dont think they would ever in the entireity of their exsitence use a gun even the shaolin monks use non-lethal force

Breaking peoples skulls with naught but your bear hands is HARDLY non-lethal. Shaolin fighting arts do incorporate staffs, knifes, swords, etc.

[gold trigger]

Whitehouse spokesman Dana Perino quoted in my newspaper today:
"the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed"

I am sure this is a great comfort to all. If only the gunman had thought about his responsibilites as a gun owner beforehand.

So one apparently love-crazed kid can murder 32 random students and kill himself before he is stopped. Could he have done this without his arsenal?

Are these seemingly oh-so-frequent and terrible massacres the price you pay in the US for your right to bear arms?

Um yeah..... and do you know why we want "the right to bear arms"? Among other reasons..... Protect ourselves from our government. Do you realize how easily a free nation can slip into a dictatorship or communist forms of government if the people were defenceless? If our military and police force were the ONLY one's "bearing arms"? No thanks. You can keep your English laws in England.

f*ck the police we will own guns have over 4 good ones & i will buy more!!!!!!!!!!

[gold trigger]

fore ever guns
never communism
always freedom

[s.xkitten]

yeah, because having guns or not is the line between being a capitalist society, and being a communist society...

anywho, my family would freak if we weren't allowed to own guns, but i don't really give a shit either way...i can defend myself with or without it, so i don't worry all that much...

[heavycola]

fore ever guns
never communism
always freedom

i rest my case.

[b.k. barunt]

Damn, now you've almost got me convinced. "Gold trigger"? What kind of Bush loving cheesewanker is this? Probably jerks off to one of the gun mags. The thought of a moron of this caliber owning even a sharp object makes me want to vote for gun control.

[btownmeggy]

Holy shit.

[glide]

We in the Great White North are known world wide as peacekeepers. Our past is no where near as violent as most countries, and for that I am very thankful. I myself served 6 months in the sinai desert sitting between Egyptian and Israeli guns during the height of things in the middle east. And sadly, many Canadian troops are dying everyday in combat lately. Something we as peacekeepers are not used to. And our cities are experiencing gang wars like never before. Times continue to change. However, if guns were ever outlawed, only outlaws would have guns!! That is not acceptable.

[flashleg8]

However, if guns were ever outlawed, only outlaws would have guns!! That is not acceptable.

And if crimes were legal - there would be no criminals

[vtmarik]

However, if guns were ever outlawed, only outlaws would have guns!! That is not acceptable.

And if crimes were legal - there would be no criminals

Well, for there to be a crime you need A) criminals and B) Victims, or A) Victims and B) Criminals.

It occurs to me that if there were no victims, there would be no crimes, unless criminals began to prey on other criminals, ad infinitum, but I digress.

Making guns illegal simply increases the incentive to be violent while obtaining them. If guns were available everywhere, how could people get a market share selling illegal guns at extreme risk and high prices?

Now, while I personally don't like guns very much, I can see the link between illegality and their use. But think of it this way:

If a guy decides he's gonna rob a bank and take hostages, he's made the conscious decision to break the law. How is the fact that guns are illegal going to stop him from using them?

[Guiscard]

However, if guns were ever outlawed, only outlaws would have guns!! That is not acceptable.

And if crimes were legal - there would be no criminals

Well, for there to be a crime you need A) criminals and B) Victims, or A) Victims and B) Criminals.

It occurs to me that if there were no victims, there would be no crimes, unless criminals began to prey on other criminals, ad infinitum, but I digress.

Making guns illegal simply increases the incentive to be violent while obtaining them. If guns were available everywhere, how could people get a market share selling illegal guns at extreme risk and high prices?

Now, while I personally don't like guns very much, I can see the link between illegality and their use. But think of it this way:

If a guy decides he's gonna rob a bank and take hostages, he's made the conscious decision to break the law. How is the fact that guns are illegal going to stop him from using them?

Perhaps a better way of looking at it is if you consider crimes of 'passion', or crimes by the mentally unstable... We have tight gun laws in the UK. You can't just walk into a shop and buy a gun, and ownership is subject to harsh checks, regulations and licenses. We don't have wide gun ownership whatsoever. Most people don't have a gun and wouldn't consider getting one because a) we don't have the culture where guns are 'required' and b) its really hard to get one in the first place. So if a schizophrenic kid at University decides to go on a rampage he doesn't just have a gun at hand to shoot his classmates. He might hang himself, or beat someone up, but he doesn't shoot fifty people. A husband who finds his wife cheating on him, in a fit of rage, simply cannot take his gun and put six bullets in his wife and her lover because he doesn't have that gun around. The option isn't there.

Of course criminals can get guns, but the vast vast majority don't have firearms and never will.