Remove territory and bonus information in fog of war

Elwar · Post by **Elwar** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:52 am

<Subject>:

* Remove territory and bonus information in fog of war, both continents and card bonuses

<Body>:

* Suggestion Idea: As above

* Specifics: Removal of all bonuses such as

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2007-10-24 17:25:50 - I receives 9 armies for 29 territories
2007-10-24 17:28:55 - I receives 7 armies for holding ?
2007-10-24 17:28:55 - I receives 2 armies for holding ?

And:

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2007-10-24 17:29:48 - I cashed in a set of Venezuela, Ural, and East Africa worth 5 armies
2007-10-24 17:29:48 - I gets bonus of 2 armies added to ?
2007-10-24 17:29:48 - I gets bonus of 2 armies added to ?

In favour of

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2007-10-24 17:25:50 - I receives 18 armies

and

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2007-10-24 17:29:48 - I cashed in a set of Venezuela, Ural, and East Africa worth 5 armies

respectively. Note that the +2 bonuses for having the territory wouldn't even be shown!

* Why it is needed: Fog of war should primarily be a game of secrecy and diplomacy. Just knowing the continent bonuses makes it fairly easy to determine what continents someone has (unless its a really big map), and card bonuses also reveal when someone has 1, 2 or all of the territories for the cards they cashed in. And the territory count reveals the spread of an opponent.

This is removing the basic purpose of fog of war - not knowing your enemies positions and strength!

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:00 am

i posted the same thing so i deleted my thread and moved it here:

DiM wrote:i think there's a wee bit of a problem with the fog of war.

currently you can see enemy terits only if they are adjacent to your terits but there are is flaws in the game log that offers you good info on what terits a player has.

trading sets:

2007-10-24 13:47:05 - XXX cashed in a set of Argentina, Central America, and East Africa worth 30 armies
2007-10-24 13:47:05 - XXX gets bonus of 2 armies added to ?
2007-10-24 13:47:05 - XXX gets bonus of 2 armies added to ?
2007-10-24 13:47:05 - XXX gets bonus of 2 armies added to ?

even if there's a question mark there we already know those question marks are from the set.

so i suggest making this:
2007-10-24 13:47:05 - XXX cashed in a set of Argentina, Central America, and East Africa worth 30 armies

into this:

2007-10-24 13:47:05 - XXX cashed in a set of ?, ?, and ? worth 30 armies

edit// oh poo. i put it in general discussion instead of suggestions. if a mod drops by please move it. thanks.

Aerial Attack · Post by **Aerial Attack** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:43 pm

I like this very much. Now you truly won't know how strong someone is unless you send in a scout team.

Incandenza · Post by **Incandenza** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:50 pm

Nah. The nice thing about the fog of war system as presently instituted is that there's information to be had, you've just got to be paying attention. Thus there's an intelligence-gathering skill component to FoW, so talented and diligent players can gather intel that isn't strictly based on the whims of their drop.

insomniacdude · Post by **insomniacdude** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:57 pm

Incandenza wrote:Nah. The nice thing about the fog of war system as presently instituted is that there's information to be had, you've just got to be paying attention. Thus there's an intelligence-gathering skill component to FoW, so talented and diligent players can gather intel that isn't strictly based on the whims of their drop.

I might agree with you on the cards, but I think the continent bonuses should be hidden. That could be a crucial giveaway on small maps, or maps with limited bonuses.

spiesr · Post by **spiesr** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:00 pm

It should really be like this:

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Player recieves ? armies
Player cashed in a set worth ? armies
Player deployed Y armies on Z

Where doesn't tell you how many armies they get and only tells you if they deploy on a territory that you can see...

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:03 pm

spiesr wrote:It should really be like this:
Code: Select all
Player recieves ? armies
Player cashed in a set worth ? armies
Player deployed Y armies on Z
Where doesn't tell you how many armies they get and only tells you if they deploy on a territory that you can see...

I agree here.

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:23 pm

I think it's got a balance with the amounts of hints the log provides, but I would consider revising it after we've all got more experience playing FoW games.

I'm sure that whatever the log says it would not please everyone

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:25 pm

Perhaps down the road, with more game experience, we could have Fog Regular and Fog Lite... one with very limited info and one with more info.

Telvannia · Post by **Telvannia** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:26 pm

lets have it only logging your own goes

save lots of trouble :lol:

bedub1 · Post by **bedub1** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:30 pm

I voted yes. The reason being, If I can't see it actually happen on the map, I shouldn't see it happen in the game log. But as I've voiced in the other thread about the game log...if I CAN see it happen on the map (if i see you get the 2 bonus armies cause I'm adjacent to the country, then it NEEDS to be in the game log). The idea is to get the Game Log and the Game Map to be identical!

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:06 pm

bedub1 wrote:I voted yes. The reason being, If I can't see it actually happen on the map, I shouldn't see it happen in the game log. But as I've voiced in the other thread about the game log...if I CAN see it happen on the map (if i see you get the 2 bonus armies cause I'm adjacent to the country, then it NEEDS to be in the game log). The idea is to get the Game Log and the Game Map to be identical!

I agree completely with this I too voted yes as otherwise the war fog is flawed which it is at the moment and if you clearly see something on the map then the fog is gone and this should also be spelt out in the log. i have played several games with war fog and unless you are useing some kind of cheat you either see things or you don't half seeing does not make sense.

BeakerWMA · Post by **BeakerWMA** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:05 pm

bedub1 wrote:I voted yes. The reason being, If I can't see it actually happen on the map, I shouldn't see it happen in the game log. But as I've voiced in the other thread about the game log...if I CAN see it happen on the map (if i see you get the 2 bonus armies cause I'm adjacent to the country, then it NEEDS to be in the game log). The idea is to get the Game Log and the Game Map to be identical!

well said.

insomniacdude · Post by **insomniacdude** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:21 pm

spiesr wrote:It should really be like this:
Code: Select all
Player recieves ? armies
Player cashed in a set worth ? armies
Player deployed Y armies on Z
Where doesn't tell you how many armies they get and only tells you if they deploy on a territory that you can see...

I thought about masking set values It would be completely useless at best, incredibly annoying at worst, on escalating games. I'd be all for it on Flat Rate.

insomniacdude · Post by **insomniacdude** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:29 pm

lackattack wrote:I think it's got a balance with the amounts of hints the log provides, but I would consider revising it after we've all got more experience playing FoW games.

I'm sure that whatever the log says it would not please everyone

Giving hints in a fog of war game completely negates the purpose of the game in the first place! You know what your troops can see and nothing more.

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:54 pm

insomniacdude wrote:Giving hints in a fog of war game completely negates the purpose of the game in the first place! You know what your troops can see and nothing more.

Says who? FoW can work any way that makes for good gameplay. Think of the log as an "intelligence report". As it is now, you have an element of memory (from the map) and an element of deduction (from the log). These elements could make for interesting gameplay could they not?

And bedub, maybe it would be better if the log didn't mask what you can see. But as I wrote elsewhere that would take much longer to program, has to be prioritized, and I completely disagree that FoW NEEDS to be that way to be a great game option.

insomniacdude · Post by **insomniacdude** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:00 am

lackattack wrote:
insomniacdude wrote:Giving hints in a fog of war game completely negates the purpose of the game in the first place! You know what your troops can see and nothing more.

Says who? FoW can work any way that makes for good gameplay. Think of the log as an "intelligence report". As it is now, you have an element of memory (from the map) and an element of deduction (from the log). These elements could make for interesting gameplay could they not?

And bedub, maybe it would be better if the log didn't mask what you can see. But as I wrote elsewhere that would take much longer to program, has to be prioritized, and I completely disagree that FoW NEEDS to be that way to be a great game option.

wicked wrote:Perhaps down the road, with more game experience, we could have Fog Regular and Fog Lite... one with very limited info and one with more info.

I know that the idea is new, so we should wait for a while until we have more consistent feedback from the players. But I don't think the complaints about Fog of War are going to stop, so it having a "Full" and "Lite" option (or whatever you want to call them) might not be a bad idea to prep for, especially if you want to keep the gameplay around that you have in mind (partially ignorant to the rest of the world, but not completely).

baianosafado · Post by **baianosafado** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:28 pm

I think that the log should only report what you can see happen. Meaning:

blue starts his turn and places some amount of armies on a territory in your field of view. That would go in the

Blue then places a few more armies NOT in your field of view. There is no mention of this in your log.

The same would go for attacking. It would only appear in your log if you could see it happen.

This would require that each individual have separate logs OR that each event in the total game log (in the database) would have a set of identifiers that would indicate who can or cannot see that event.

Clive · Post by **Clive** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:49 pm

Coleman wrote:
spiesr wrote:It should really be like this:
Code: Select all
Player recieves ? armies
Player cashed in a set worth ? armies
Player deployed Y armies on Z
Where doesn't tell you how many armies they get and only tells you if they deploy on a territory that you can see...
I agree here.

I agree also

Remove territory and bonus information in fog of war

Should territory and bonus information be removed?

Remove territory and bonus information in fog of war

more 'accurate' info