Some thoughts for non-believers

[JJM]

1. If you do not believe in god then how do you think the Bible predicted that Israel would once again become a nation?

The Bible can be interpreted many ways... So can Nostradamus' prophecies... Many of his prophecies have come true too... So what?

2.If You believe we were created by a "big bang" then why our all our body symmetrical.

Aside from the horrible typos, this one is easy... We are only symmetrical one way... So what does that say? Nothing... We are not a perfect sphere... In fact, perfect spheres don't exist. If God made us, then wouldn't he have created perfection?

What about every other creature, plant, mineral, etc that is not symmetrical?

How do you explain fossils? Did Jesus ride a dinosaur?

Why don't you go hang out with Kirk Cameron or some other moron..?

Just take for example our hands are completely symmetrical. That is something that does not just happen by coincidence.

[Iliad]

1. If you do not believe in god then how do you think the Bible predicted that Israel would once again become a nation?

The Bible can be interpreted many ways... So can Nostradamus' prophecies... Many of his prophecies have come true too... So what?

2.If You believe we were created by a "big bang" then why our all our body symmetrical.

Aside from the horrible typos, this one is easy... We are only symmetrical one way... So what does that say? Nothing... We are not a perfect sphere... In fact, perfect spheres don't exist. If God made us, then wouldn't he have created perfection?

What about every other creature, plant, mineral, etc that is not symmetrical?

How do you explain fossils? Did Jesus ride a dinosaur?

Why don't you go hang out with Kirk Cameron or some other moron..?

Just take for example our hands are completely symmetrical. That is something that does not just happen by coincidence.

You know what would help your arguments?

Knowing what the opposing argument is. Seriously go and try and read up on evolution and from a variety of sources. You'll only be for the better of it.

[Frigidus]

1. If you do not believe in god then how do you think the Bible predicted that Israel would once again become a nation?

The Bible can be interpreted many ways... So can Nostradamus' prophecies... Many of his prophecies have come true too... So what?

2.If You believe we were created by a "big bang" then why our all our body symmetrical.

Aside from the horrible typos, this one is easy... We are only symmetrical one way... So what does that say? Nothing... We are not a perfect sphere... In fact, perfect spheres don't exist. If God made us, then wouldn't he have created perfection?

What about every other creature, plant, mineral, etc that is not symmetrical?

How do you explain fossils? Did Jesus ride a dinosaur?

Why don't you go hang out with Kirk Cameron or some other moron..?

Just take for example our hands are completely symmetrical. That is something that does not just happen by coincidence.

I'm not seeing symmetry here. Do you mean we have two hands? Because that isn't exactly miraculous.

[2dimes]

I don't know what word he needs here in place of symetrical but he means everyone's hands are more or less consistant with everyone else's.

I suspect he's wondering why people in different regions would evolve exactly the same as us except for minor pigment and hair differences.

[jonesthecurl]

Jim:
please be clearer. It is hard to discuss with someone who, when we all read their posts, we have to try to interprete.

Do you mean:
each hand on each person is symmetrical?
Or: We all have a left hand and a right hand, which are a mirror-image of each other?
Or: My right hand looks quite like your right hand and and my left hand looks quite like your left hand?
Or: People in Africa have hands and so do people in Australia?
Or: something else?

I think we can show you why whatever-your-point-is is not conclusive proof of the existence of a god or gods, but you have to be a little clearer before we can refute you conclusively - or, of course, be convinced by the incontrovertible logic of your assertion, should that prove to be the case.

[MeDeFe]

If you consult the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, I believe it states that dolphins are the most advanced life form on earth.

I thought it was white mice?

Those are extradimensional and can't really count.

[Orwell]

1. If you do not believe in god then how do you think the Bible predicted that Israel would once again become a nation?

The Bible can be interpreted many ways... So can Nostradamus' prophecies... Many of his prophecies have come true too... So what?

2.If You believe we were created by a "big bang" then why our all our body symmetrical.

Aside from the horrible typos, this one is easy... We are only symmetrical one way... So what does that say? Nothing... We are not a perfect sphere... In fact, perfect spheres don't exist. If God made us, then wouldn't he have created perfection?

What about every other creature, plant, mineral, etc that is not symmetrical?

How do you explain fossils? Did Jesus ride a dinosaur?

Why don't you go hang out with Kirk Cameron or some other moron..?

Just take for example our hands are completely symmetrical. That is something that does not just happen by coincidence.

You hand example is a red herring - to the point, you are stipulating that symmetry can only occur because of a creator. It also means your entire argument rests on remnant truth.

The problem here, JJM, is that we can point to plenty of examples of asymmetry which implies the "creator" is absent, or at the very least, more abstract then your argument allows.
Reconcile asymmetry.

[PLAYER57832]

1. If you do not believe in god then how do you think the Bible predicted that Israel would once again become a nation?

self-evident. And, while it does say Israel will arise, it also says that an Israel will arise that will NOT be the Israel of old, will not be the blessed nation. Then, as was pointed out earlier, there will be a final return with the real Israel. Both interpretations are disputed.

2.If You believe we were created by a "big bang" then why our all our body symmetrical.

The Big Bang has nothing to do with Evolution of species. The Big Bang might be completely wrong without putting a hole in Evolution of species on Earth at all. In fact, Big Bang could be wrong without refuting much of what we believe is true about Earth, the Solar System and our galaxies. It is just one possibility that matches the data to date. There are other theories, though as far as I know Big Bang seems to best fit the known data.

Symetry or lack of it has nothing to do with proving or disproving Evolution, only how evolution might have occured. Evolution is determined from the fossil record, not supposed ideas of what is probable or "must" be. Science often challenges what we think "must" be true. The evidence presented by fossils are hardly what most people would intuitively believe to be true without evidence. That is one reason why Creationists can be so convincing to people who don't know real science. Real science does NOT always seem to immediately make sense, but it is true based upon evidence.

No, the fossil record clearly traces dolphins, porpoises and seals from land mammals, otters are the link between them and larger rodents. Scientists have found a record of this in fossils by the pacific shelf.
It was in the 1967 Stevenson Discovery of the shores of San Fransisco, you can read his original papers about it in the University of Berkeley Archives at the UCBerkeley website.

Really? Life originated in the sea, I though land animals ame frm sea animals?

Life is believed to have originated in the sea and then evolved into land animals. However, dolphins (and the seals) descended from land animals that evolved into sea-going creatures. Evolution is not always a straight line.

[Timminz]

The shape of our bodies are symmetrical.

So why is the middle finger on my left hand almost 3mm longer than the one on my right? For that matter why is one of your feet approximately half a size bigger than the other?

[Rustovitch]

1. If you do not believe in god then how do you think the Bible predicted that Israel would once again become a nation?

It doesn't. Modern Israel violates the prediction which invalidates itself anyway through internal contradiction.

2.If You believe we were created by a "big bang" then why our all our body symmetrical.

No, what you have done there is confuse the human body with a starfish.

[haggispittjr]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

[jesterhawk]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

[joecoolfrog]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

Is being unbearably smug a sin ?

[MeDeFe]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

Is being unbearably smug a sin ?

It might be prideful.

[AAFitz]

1. If you do not believe in god then how do you think the Bible predicted that Israel would once again become a nation?

The Bible can be interpreted many ways... So can Nostradamus' prophecies... Many of his prophecies have come true too... So what?

2.If You believe we were created by a "big bang" then why our all our body symmetrical.

Aside from the horrible typos, this one is easy... We are only symmetrical one way... So what does that say? Nothing... We are not a perfect sphere... In fact, perfect spheres don't exist. If God made us, then wouldn't he have created perfection?

What about every other creature, plant, mineral, etc that is not symmetrical?

How do you explain fossils? Did Jesus ride a dinosaur?

Why don't you go hang out with Kirk Cameron or some other moron..?

Just take for example our hands are completely symmetrical. That is something that does not just happen by coincidence.

First of all, many, many things do happen by coincidence. That is the exact origin of the word. It is also simply ridiculous to make such an assumption... take for example the people who have deformities...or the people with one hand larger than the other, or different sized feet, which happens so often, that the policy of every shoe store is to check the box to make sure one of the asymmetrical shoppers arent taking different sized shoes.

Also, almost no one actually is symmetrical in actuality. We only appear that way. If you take a picture of one side of the face, and mirror it and make a face out of it, it is markedly different from the actual face, and sometimes frighteningly different when compared to the other side using the same process.

More importantly, you are judging evolution from the top down. Humans have been one of the last animals to evolve, since we have literally dominated the planet since then, and literally extinguished other species as a whole, and reduced populations to a point that they are lucky to reproduce at all, let alone have enough time to evolve.

[PLAYER57832]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

True, but you are not sharing what Christ shared. Christ is about truth and love. Christ sat on a rock, a shore talking about love and forgiveness and the glory of heaven. He did not stand there talking about the age of the Earth.

If you had asked the average person, many would have thought, back then, that the Earth is thousands of years. Many also would have attributed disease to evil/misdoings, etc. BUT, a good many of the educated thought differently. This type of Creationism is not based upon truth, but denial of facts and proofs. Christ declared that to lead a child astray is the greatest of sins. Dr Morris, though he believe he tells the truth, has so refused to see reality and truth that he is leading millions of children astray. THAT is blasphemy, not Christ.

[notyou2]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

True, but you are not sharing what Christ shared. Christ is about truth and love. Christ sat on a rock, a shore talking about love and forgiveness and the glory of heaven. He did not stand there talking about the age of the Earth.

If you had asked the average person, many would have thought, back then, that the Earth is thousands of years. Many also would have attributed disease to evil/misdoings, etc. BUT, a good many of the educated thought differently. This type of Creationism is not based upon truth, but denial of facts and proofs. Christ declared that to lead a child astray is the greatest of sins. Dr Morris, though he believe he tells the truth, has so refused to see reality and truth that he is leading millions of children astray. THAT is blasphemy, not Christ.

Very good points Player

[notyou2]

If you consult the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, I believe it states that dolphins are the most advanced life form on earth.

I thought it was white mice?

Those are extradimensional and can't really count.

I believe it depends on the edition you have. I have the first edition and autographed by Slartybartfast himself. Well it's not actually autographed, he doodled in the cover.

[jonesthecurl]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

And if you saw someone you like and admire spending their life savings on buying a mine, and all the while they told you they were rich, rich, rich they were unearthing Fools Gold, wouldn't you want to convince them to stop? Or at least shut up?

[Juan_Bottom]

[jesterhawk]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

And if you saw someone you like and admire spending their life savings on buying a mine, and all the while they told you they were rich, rich, rich they were unearthing Fools Gold, wouldn't you want to convince them to stop? Or at least shut up?

Absolutely, I would agree with you. I do have one caveat and that is the problem with this premise is that in order for you to recognize Fool's Gold, you would have to have some type of experience with both Fool's Gold and real Gold in order to tell the difference.


The people who are posting in opposition to Christian posts, and Christians sharing, don't seem to have experience with both false churches that claim Christianity and real churches that truly are Christian as Jesus would want. At best, if they have any religion at all they only seem to have experiences with churches that claim to be Christian in their doctrine, but don't seem to really walk out being Christian.

And those who are posting here have had experience with a good solid church and realize just how much of a treasure they have found (the real Gold) and want to share it. Someone once said for every good/real/God fearing Christian church there are as many as nine churches that claim to have a form of godliness but deny it's power and what is written in God's word. Accurate or not, I can say from personal experience that there is a lot of bad churches out there.

And the line of the mine, if my friend believed that I had a mine full of fool's gold and I knew different. In fact, I had my gold tested and found out that it was real gold and I was indeed rich. Wouldn't you want me to keep trying to share it with you? Wouldn't you be a little upset if I didn't at least try?

Love in Christ,
JH

[haggispittjr]

how about, believers screw off with trying to get us to believe in god. and non believers should stop trying to bash god...never going to happen but it would be cool.

If you found a treasure that was so large that you could never spend it all in your lifetime, wouldn't you want to share it with your friends and family at least the ones you like? It is the same with those of us who believe. We have found such a great and immeasurable treasure that we just can't help but share it. You should feel honored that we count all of you here amongst our friends whom we like. This is also why we get so upset when you mock us because we are truly only sharing out of love for you because the love of God has no equal.

Love in Christ,
JH

And if you saw someone you like and admire spending their life savings on buying a mine, and all the while they told you they were rich, rich, rich they were unearthing Fools Gold, wouldn't you want to convince them to stop? Or at least shut up?

Absolutely, I would agree with you. I do have one caveat and that is the problem with this premise is that in order for you to recognize Fool's Gold, you would have to have some type of experience with both Fool's Gold and real Gold in order to tell the difference.


The people who are posting in opposition to Christian posts, and Christians sharing, don't seem to have experience with both false churches that claim Christianity and real churches that truly are Christian as Jesus would want. At best, if they have any religion at all they only seem to have experiences with churches that claim to be Christian in their doctrine, but don't seem to really walk out being Christian.

And those who are posting here have had experience with a good solid church and realize just how much of a treasure they have found (the real Gold) and want to share it. Someone once said for every good/real/God fearing Christian church there are as many as nine churches that claim to have a form of godliness but deny it's power and what is written in God's word. Accurate or not, I can say from personal experience that there is a lot of bad churches out there.

And the line of the mine, if my friend believed that I had a mine full of fool's gold and I knew different. In fact, I had my gold tested and found out that it was real gold and I was indeed rich. Wouldn't you want me to keep trying to share it with you? Wouldn't you be a little upset if I didn't at least try?

Love in Christ,
JH

this stupid gold metaphore doesnt relate to this situation. see, if you had treasure then no one would turn it down. what your doing is telling us about christianity to, i dont know, convert us? truth is, we all know what you believe and we made a decision earlier on in our lives not to belive, maybe because sertain people think the whole concept is idiotic. im VERY content with my life. so you can keep your gold, cause i guess money doesnt buy happiness.

[john9blue]

The "treasure" isn't just in the afterlife. I would guess being religious can have benefits here on Earth as well.

[Juan_Bottom]

[mpjh]

Sexist, you forgot Helen Keller.