INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[BuJaber]

I think it's time we knew who it is if it isn't jfm.

Mets who is your target?

If you or tobi are lying it helps us catch the liar later on if evidence doesn't match the claims.

It should also help town avoid being poisoned thus freeing any protective PRs to target other people who might be NK'd.

[Sirius Kase]

Town commuter is a known town role, blacky, and it does something similar to what you're saying.

So if hes a town commuter, he is immune to night kills?
And then the only way he can be killed is a day lynch?

If thats the case then he will be the number one target for scum to lynch during the day... surely anyone who votes him would be scum... eek, do i unvote?

Commuter is NOT a "known role", not to me at least. I've been operating under the assumption that it was something dakky made up. To me, a commuter is someone who drives a car to work. Just to let you how I think, I start with the real world definition, then try to adapt it to work in a world where everyone is a fish. As you see, commuter doesn't work in this world, so I figured he was being creative, and therefore probably scum.

Also, there is a discussion in the forums about how jfm played his vigilante serafe knight character. People are saying it's a good role, which is exactly opposite of how I interpreted it. In my world, a vigilante is a dangerous person, a loose cannon who takes the law into his own hands. So, unless someone says otherwise, I go with definitions I know, and modify based on context clues and whatever else is provided. I don't think having a side thread is strictly within the rules, but it's a good idea, if for no other purpose than to have an honest critique after someone is dead and can't benefit in the current game. I now know to treat the next vigilante I encounter with more respect.

There is no list of so-called "known roles", not that I can find. The best I've found is at mafiascum wiki. But, it doesn't always work for our game. I've made several mistakes by relying on it, but I'd be totally lost without it.

About jargon, I don't mind jargon, if I recognize that it's jargon. I don't mind looking things up. But, I don't routinely look up ordinary words like vigilante or commuter. To me, vigilante, it's word with a negative connotation, so it's scum. Same with leech, or wiretapper. I was truly surprised when he flipped town. It's confusing, but interesting to resolve all these conflicts. If I can't, I just add the offending person to my scum list. It's simplistic, but it's an algorithm I understand. Since no one has articulated a definition for "scummy", I go with this one, "an offensive person who plays in a manner that confuses or annoys me."

So, now, what to do about dakky? If he's "out of town" at night, how is that different than being a bullet proof VT? Put that way, he sounds unlikely to accidentally kill a townie during the night. If I can figure out his rhetoric, he might even be helpful in the daytime.

[Tobikera]

I think it's time we knew who it is if it isn't jfm.

Mets who is your target?

If you or tobi are lying it helps us catch the liar later on if evidence doesn't match the claims.

It should also help town avoid being poisoned thus freeing any protective PRs to target other people who might be NK'd.

I assume you mean his target on N1? I've stated many times already what I did. When only blacky came up with a negative result on D2, I figured the person I misdirected, Metsfanmax, was the reason. Now, after N2, I see that logic might be in error. However, I voted for Metsfanmax believing he was scum on D2 and still have him on my FOS list, so I don't see how we are lying together as a team, if that is what you are implying. I gave you my two targets, Mets confirmed my action on the first and you suggested I was correct on the second, now you need Mets target to sort out anything else. This cow is dry.

[dakky21]

Commuter is NOT a "known role", not to me at least. I've been operating under the assumption that it was something dakky made up. To me, a commuter is someone who drives a car to work. Just to let you how I think, I start with the real world definition, then try to adapt it to work in a world where everyone is a fish. As you see, commuter doesn't work in this world, so I figured he was being creative, and therefore probably scum.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Commuter

It's a known town role. Anyway, difference between bulletproof VT and commuter is that if the Cop checks the player, bulletproof VT would come up as TOWN, while if Cop checks the Commuter, he would get no result.

[BuJaber]

I think it's time we knew who it is if it isn't jfm.

Mets who is your target?

If you or tobi are lying it helps us catch the liar later on if evidence doesn't match the claims.

It should also help town avoid being poisoned thus freeing any protective PRs to target other people who might be NK'd.

I assume you mean his target on N1? I've stated many times already what I did. When only blacky came up with a negative result on D2, I figured the person I misdirected, Metsfanmax, was the reason. Now, after N2, I see that logic might be in error. However, I voted for Metsfanmax believing he was scum on D2 and still have him on my FOS list, so I don't see how we are lying together as a team, if that is what you are implying. I gave you my two targets, Mets confirmed my action on the first and you suggested I was correct on the second, now you need Mets target to sort out anything else. This cow is dry.

No ACTUALLY I'm asking who he targetted N2, because he claims he got poisoned by his target and you claim you did not redirect him again, meaning he actually did visit the poisoner. (Or so he claims)

[TX AG 90]

I think it's time we knew who it is if it isn't jfm.

Mets who is your target?

If you or tobi are lying it helps us catch the liar later on if evidence doesn't match the claims.

It should also help town avoid being poisoned thus freeing any protective PRs to target other people who might be NK'd.

agree, with blacky confirmation

[TX AG 90]

I think it's time we knew who it is if it isn't jfm.

Mets who is your target?

If you or tobi are lying it helps us catch the liar later on if evidence doesn't match the claims.

It should also help town avoid being poisoned thus freeing any protective PRs to target other people who might be NK'd.

I assume you mean his target on N1? I've stated many times already what I did. When only blacky came up with a negative result on D2, I figured the person I misdirected, Metsfanmax, was the reason. Now, after N2, I see that logic might be in error. However, I voted for Metsfanmax believing he was scum on D2 and still have him on my FOS list, so I don't see how we are lying together as a team, if that is what you are implying. I gave you my two targets, Mets confirmed my action on the first and you suggested I was correct on the second, now you need Mets target to sort out anything else. This cow is dry.

I thought he meant N2 when he got poisoned.

[TX AG 90]

- The poisoning of blacky was claimed by jfm

Check he again - jfm NEVER claimed to have poisoned blacky, we just connected those dots.

[Sirius Kase]

Sorry I got angry. I've spent hours here and on mafia scum. I'm missing turns in my regular CC games. I'm going to have to stop working so hard, it doesn't seem to help much. I just want to relax and have fun. But, I don't enjoy discovering that I'm misinterpreting stuff that other people write. It's not fair to them. So, please bear with me. Thanks.

[Ragian]

Town commuter is a known town role, blacky, and it does something similar to what you're saying.

So if hes a town commuter, he is immune to night kills?
And then the only way he can be killed is a day lynch?

If thats the case then he will be the number one target for scum to lynch during the day... surely anyone who votes him would be scum... eek, do i unvote?

I presume that he could be blocked and thus not hide...?

Just a note on the poisoner: if it's passive, wouldn't that just make it a version of paranoid gun owner?

Well, yes, the difference being that the PGO kills instantly.

Re: poisoner, yeah it would make sense for that person to fess up, I presume. I was mulling over this, thinking that it would be nice if mafia targeted any passive poisoner, but then again, they could just cry help and be healed by SW. Perhaps get a majority vote on whether the poisoner should reveal her- or himself? I'm for. Counting Beast, too.

Speaking of that...why not kill SW last night? Did they need him to heal blacky? I dunno...

[dakky21]

I presume that he could be blocked and thus not hide...?

Read the link I sent few posts up. Commuter can't be blocked nor even a Strongman can kill me.

[blacky365]

I think it's time we knew who it is if it isn't jfm.

Mets who is your target?

If you or tobi are lying it helps us catch the liar later on if evidence doesn't match the claims.

It should also help town avoid being poisoned thus freeing any protective PRs to target other people who might be NK'd.

agree, with blacky confirmation

Is this asking me to confirm something?
Not sure what im to confirm

Town commuter is a known town role, blacky, and it does something similar to what you're saying.

So if hes a town commuter, he is immune to night kills?
And then the only way he can be killed is a day lynch?

If thats the case then he will be the number one target for scum to lynch during the day... surely anyone who votes him would be scum... eek, do i unvote?

I presume that he could be blocked and thus not hide...?

Just a note on the poisoner: if it's passive, wouldn't that just make it a version of paranoid gun owner?

Well, yes, the difference being that the PGO kills instantly.

Re: poisoner, yeah it would make sense for that person to fess up, I presume. I was mulling over this, thinking that it would be nice if mafia targeted any passive poisoner, but then again, they could just cry help and be healed by SW. Perhaps get a majority vote on whether the poisoner should reveal her- or himself? I'm for. Counting Beast, too.

Speaking of that...why not kill SW last night? Did they need him to heal blacky? I dunno...

I agree and would think that it would help if the poisoner revealed themselves.

And with no night kills i am confused as to what scum are actually up to...

(On a side note, In the last DBD game there were no night kills the entire game and we were getting so confused, i wonder if its the same here and we will just be lynching townies all game.
In that game it got to a point where we were voting no lynch each night to try to work out what was going on but we still lost.)

[dakky21]

I presume that he could be blocked and thus not hide...?

Read the link I sent few posts up. Commuter can't be blocked nor even a Strongman can kill me.

Though I'm not a Commuter, I'm a Hermit but the role is pretty much the same.

[Pikanchion]

Is this asking me to confirm something?
Not sure what im to confirm

I believe TX AG 90 was asking for your confirmation of what Metsfanmax may or may not claim in the future regarding choice of target on the nights each of you were poisoned. Regardless, I did ask you to confirm something that you seem to have ignored.

[Tobikera]

I presume that he could be blocked and thus not hide...?

Read the link I sent few posts up. Commuter can't be blocked nor even a Strongman can kill me.

Though I'm not a Commuter, I'm a Hermit but the role is pretty much the same.

Hermit is not mentioned on several mafia sites, but there is reference to it on Mafia Wiki (but, it doesn't have its own page).

One notation from mafia games that have been played is the following:

Win when you are not targeted more than once

Could this be why dakky is chasing everyone away from targeting him, other than the obvious goal of self-preservation?

[Metsfanmax]

@mets, apart an investigative PR claiming he had incriminating evidence against jfm, what could have given you a scummy read on ifm then?

I'm still waiting on an answer, mets

I'm still refusing to answer this sort of hypothetical question, ZaBeast. It's as meaningless as if I asked you, apart from an investigative PR claiming he had evidence that cleared jfm, what would have given you a town read on jfm?

I think it's time we knew who it is if it isn't jfm.

Mets who is your target?

Again, I only know who I requested to visit, but I am skeptical that I actually visited this person, since I know that the effect of my action was not applied to this person. Earlier in this day I suggested that I was redirected, but Tobi has claimed he didn't target me. And, having thought about it more since I originally brought it up, it's possible that there's another explanation than me being redirected: namely, that the passive poisoner also negates the action that was applied to them. But until I have more information, I'm not sure I want to share the identity of who I targeted.

If I keep saying this, maybe people will eventually read it?

[chapcrap]

Just to go back and defend jfm for a second. For jfm's poisoning, it's good for town if he stays alive. Because he is rewarded when a townie is heals, he could confirm town players. It's a multi-step, elongated process, but it wasn't altogether bad on his part to poison night 1.

Town commuter is a known town role, blacky, and it does something similar to what you're saying.

Commuter is NOT a "known role", not to me at least. I've been operating under the assumption that it was something dakky made up. To me, a commuter is someone who drives a car to work. Just to let you how I think, I start with the real world definition, then try to adapt it to work in a world where everyone is a fish. As you see, commuter doesn't work in this world, so I figured he was being creative, and therefore probably scum.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Commuter

It's a known town role. Anyway, difference between bulletproof VT and commuter is that if the Cop checks the player, bulletproof VT would come up as TOWN, while if Cop checks the Commuter, he would get no result.

Is dakky commuter? I thought he was just hiding... So, with being a hermit, is there any additional benefit to town other than you hiding yourself every night? A different win condition as Tobi suggested?

I'm not sure why the commuter link got shared if you go back later and say you aren't that?

[chapcrap]

Again, I only know who I requested to visit, but I am skeptical that I actually visited this person, since I know that the effect of my action was not applied to this person. Earlier in this day I suggested that I was redirected, but Tobi has claimed he didn't target me. And, having thought about it more since I originally brought it up, it's possible that there's another explanation than me being redirected: namely, that the passive poisoner also negates the action that was applied to them. But until I have more information, I'm not sure I want to share the identity of who I targeted.

If I keep saying this, maybe people will eventually read it?

Got Fp'd by Mets...

I think we all read it. No one has any idea if they are getting redirected or not. Got it. You and blacky could still say who you targeted and then we would know if there is a passive poisoner or if you are just making something up and jfm poisoned blacky. I'm leaning more and more that you are scummy.

[Metsfanmax]

Again, I only know who I requested to visit, but I am skeptical that I actually visited this person, since I know that the effect of my action was not applied to this person. Earlier in this day I suggested that I was redirected, but Tobi has claimed he didn't target me. And, having thought about it more since I originally brought it up, it's possible that there's another explanation than me being redirected: namely, that the passive poisoner also negates the action that was applied to them. But until I have more information, I'm not sure I want to share the identity of who I targeted.

If I keep saying this, maybe people will eventually read it?

Got Fp'd by Mets...

I think we all read it. No one has any idea if they are getting redirected or not.

That's not fair. I have a specific observable outcome from my action that I observed not to happen on the player I targeted. That's stronger evidence than just "no one knows if they are getting redirected." My point was that BuJaber and aage's request for me to state my target completely failed to address this issue. It's possible that I'm wrong about the issue or overly concerned about it, but that doesn't mean people just get to ignore it and ask again as if I never said it.

You and blacky could still say who you targeted and then we would know if there is a passive poisoner or if you are just making something up and jfm poisoned blacky. I'm leaning more and more that you are scummy.

Suppose the passive poisoner does exist. Why does me claiming who I visited confirm it? You'd presumably still want the person who is the passive poisoner to confirm that this is indeed the case.

[BuJaber]

Yeah I forgot that post. I was only thinking about redirection, and Tobiman claimed to target me.

I'm not entirely convinced it's beneficial to keep the who hidden anyway, but I won't press the issue when there's an easier solution:

@Blacky - did you target anyone on N1?

[blacky365]

Is this asking me to confirm something?
Not sure what im to confirm

I believe TX AG 90 was asking for your confirmation of what Metsfanmax may or may not claim in the future regarding choice of target on the nights each of you were poisoned. Regardless, I did ask you to confirm something that you seem to have ignored.

Apologies... I thought I had cleared this up!
Originally I thought my target had poisoned me so I did not want to reveal who it was, however since jfm claimed (in a roundabout way) that he was my attacker, I reread the pm from the mod and the wording was that on my way to my target I was bumped into and I felt a pain in my side... so my target was not my poisoner but probably jfm or someone else.

Yeah I forgot that post. I was only thinking about redirection, and Tobiman claimed to target me.

I'm not entirely convinced it's beneficial to keep the who hidden anyway, but I won't press the issue when there's an easier solution:

@Blacky - did you target anyone on N1?

Yes but I got no result. And I don’t want to say who my target was.

[BuJaber]

Fine this is going nowhere.
Probably a good thing, we can focus in real scumhunting.

Now vote dakky

[Metsfanmax]

Originally I thought my target had poisoned me so I did not want to reveal who it was, however since jfm claimed (in a roundabout way) that he was my attacker, I reread the pm from the mod and the wording was that on my way to my target I was bumped into and I felt a pain in my side... so my target was not my poisoner but probably jfm or someone else.

I confirm this language about a pain on the side of my body. However I was not told I was bumped into, and the language indicates that my target is the one who poisoned me.

(The "bumped into" bit sounds like what happened to Tobi on N2 though?)

[Tobikera]

Originally I thought my target had poisoned me so I did not want to reveal who it was, however since jfm claimed (in a roundabout way) that he was my attacker, I reread the pm from the mod and the wording was that on my way to my target I was bumped into and I felt a pain in my side... so my target was not my poisoner but probably jfm or someone else.

I confirm this language about a pain on the side of my body. However I was not told I was bumped into, and the language indicates that my target is the one who poisoned me.

(The "bumped into" bit sounds like what happened to Tobi on N2 though?)

Yeah, my N2 result basically said that I went off to find my prey (target?), felt a bump (but, no mention of pain), but continued on my way to find my prey (BuJaber).

Could I have been bumped by "the poisoner", but was protected by someone? Or, did someone randomly get me when looking for food, and I wasn't approved for their diet, so they spit me out (fish do that because of size or taste). Probably not the latter scenario, because, according to the mod, everyone would know of their failure to find food, or they would have died. Dunno.

[dakky21]

Fine this is going nowhere.
Probably a good thing, we can focus in real scumhunting.

Now vote dakky

Because you're town and want to kill a townie because my vote might be a hammer on someone or the vote will be used in a bandwagon... yeah... good choice.