D.T.W.A.

[Phatscotty]

The government "intervening" in "government assistance" programs???...Get a new talking point because that doesn't make any sense. If you live off the government, how can you even bring up government intervention. Is not the government already intervening? Not to mention the reality that the public assistance program demands further intervention on taxpayers, so you lose both ways. Your schtick doesn't work on multiple levels.

I actually think Phatscotty has a point in this regard; although that doesn't mean I neccesarily think that welfare recipients should risk losing benefits through failing a drug test.

Also, doesn't the United States have some sort of time limit where one can receive benefits? I remember hearing after 6 months your dole payments get cut? Maybe that is just in some states - I am not going to pretend that I am an expert on the matter -

Thanks for being honest.

We used to have a limit, but we keep extending it and now its 99 weeks and the unemployed have actually unionized to become the 99'ers.

[Phatscotty]

Thought this was a new thread.. now I see Phattscotty has just used his old trick of renaming a thread to try and keep it going.....

The Phatt Guns of Dumb ring true again!!

That's....kinda dumb. But Player was wrong so you won't catch all the heat.

[BigBallinStalin]

[spurgistan]

Thought this was a new thread.. now I see Phattscotty has just used his old trick of renaming a thread to try and keep it going.....

The Phatt Guns of Dumb ring true again!!

That's....kinda dumb. But Player was wrong so you won't catch all the heat.

How is she wrong? You gave a thread a wickedly ambiguous title (DTWA stands for Defensive Tackles with Attitude. Fact.) and she checked in, only to see this sad thread. And this made her sad.

[Phatscotty]

Thought this was a new thread.. now I see Phattscotty has just used his old trick of renaming a thread to try and keep it going.....

The Phatt Guns of Dumb ring true again!!

That's....kinda dumb. But Player was wrong so you won't catch all the heat.

How is she wrong? You gave a thread a wickedly ambiguous title (DTWA stands for Defensive Tackles with Attitude. Fact.) and she checked in, only to see this sad thread. And this made her sad.

I wanted the thread to die down (which it did as the change occurred almost 2 months ago). We have been over everything 5 different ways to Tuesday, and I just wanted to wait for results as they come in because until then everyone was just yelling and being meanies.She said I wanted to keep it going through trickery. Not saying she's wrong to be a dick, just saying she's wrong about that because she is.

[john9blue]

Facebook poll for the question How do you feel about drug testing for welfare recipients?

198,726 for it
12,023 against it
4,163 not sure

Also I promised to update results as we get them and then either confirm or re-evaluate my position on this tremendously controversial topic.

where is this poll? i'd be surprised if this was an accurate cross-section of facebook's userbase

[jimboston]

why do people change titles of threads???

It's wrong.

[john9blue]

why do people change titles of threads???

It's wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ZUFs04C6I

[jimboston]

why do people change titles of threads???

It's wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7ZUFs04C6I

That is EXACTLY how I feel.

[MeDeFe]

To begin, you have to pay a fee of $50 to even apply for welfare. That, I feel is the REAL reason there will be decreases in welfare applications.. people just cannot afford to apply.

You do not have to pay a $50 fee to APPLY for welfare. You have to pay the fee for the drug test at the time of the drug test. I don't agree with the applicant have to pay for the drug test but I don't have a problem with the requirement for the drug test. The first thing they let you know is that if you want CASH ASSISTANCE there will be a drug test. So if you are on drugs and you still pay for a drug test and fail who's fault is that?

IF someone is accepted, they do get the $50 back, but if they are turned down for any reason (NOT just if they test negative.. if they screw up their application, etc.) they lose their $50., on top of not recieving benefits.

If you fail to follow the requirements of the program you will be taken out of the program.

You do not have to pay a $50 fee to APPLY for welfare. You have to pay the fee for the drug test at the time of the drug test. I don't agree with the applicant have to pay for the drug test but I don't have a problem with the requirement for the drug test. The first thing they let you know is that if you want CASH ASSISTANCE there will be a drug test. So if you are on drugs and you still pay for a drug test and fail who's fault is that? The cost of the drug test does not go to the state you pat the going rate at the drug testing company. So if you fail the test you lose the money.

So you have to pay 50$ for an obligatory drug test that is part of the application process, but you don't have to pay in order to apply.

There's not much of a difference there. It's 50$ either way, and if what PLAYER says is true you don't get them back even if you test clean but are rejected for other reasons. Either way it remains an obstacle that may well dissuade people from even applying in the first place.

[Evil Semp]

To begin, you have to pay a fee of $50 to even apply for welfare. That, I feel is the REAL reason there will be decreases in welfare applications.. people just cannot afford to apply.

You do not have to pay a $50 fee to APPLY for welfare. You have to pay the fee for the drug test at the time of the drug test. I don't agree with the applicant have to pay for the drug test but I don't have a problem with the requirement for the drug test. The first thing they let you know is that if you want CASH ASSISTANCE there will be a drug test. So if you are on drugs and you still pay for a drug test and fail who's fault is that?

IF someone is accepted, they do get the $50 back, but if they are turned down for any reason (NOT just if they test negative.. if they screw up their application, etc.) they lose their $50., on top of not recieving benefits.

If you fail to follow the requirements of the program you will be taken out of the program.

You do not have to pay a $50 fee to APPLY for welfare. You have to pay the fee for the drug test at the time of the drug test. I don't agree with the applicant have to pay for the drug test but I don't have a problem with the requirement for the drug test. The first thing they let you know is that if you want CASH ASSISTANCE there will be a drug test. So if you are on drugs and you still pay for a drug test and fail who's fault is that? The cost of the drug test does not go to the state you pat the going rate at the drug testing company. So if you fail the test you lose the money.

So you have to pay 50$ for an obligatory drug test that is part of the application process, but you don't have to pay in order to apply.

There's not much of a difference there. It's 50$ either way, and if what PLAYER says is true you don't get them back even if you test clean but are rejected for other reasons. Either way it remains an obstacle that may well dissuade people from even applying in the first place.

You start the process by taking some classes. When you get to the point in the process for the drug test then you pay for the drug test. If you fall out of the program or are disqualified from the program before the drug test you do not have to pay the $50. Again YOU DO NOT PAY $50 TO APPLY!!!

[MeDeFe]

To begin, you have to pay a fee of $50 to even apply for welfare. That, I feel is the REAL reason there will be decreases in welfare applications.. people just cannot afford to apply.

You do not have to pay a $50 fee to APPLY for welfare. You have to pay the fee for the drug test at the time of the drug test. I don't agree with the applicant have to pay for the drug test but I don't have a problem with the requirement for the drug test. The first thing they let you know is that if you want CASH ASSISTANCE there will be a drug test. So if you are on drugs and you still pay for a drug test and fail who's fault is that?

IF someone is accepted, they do get the $50 back, but if they are turned down for any reason (NOT just if they test negative.. if they screw up their application, etc.) they lose their $50., on top of not recieving benefits.

If you fail to follow the requirements of the program you will be taken out of the program.

You do not have to pay a $50 fee to APPLY for welfare. You have to pay the fee for the drug test at the time of the drug test. I don't agree with the applicant have to pay for the drug test but I don't have a problem with the requirement for the drug test. The first thing they let you know is that if you want CASH ASSISTANCE there will be a drug test. So if you are on drugs and you still pay for a drug test and fail who's fault is that? The cost of the drug test does not go to the state you pat the going rate at the drug testing company. So if you fail the test you lose the money.

So you have to pay 50$ for an obligatory drug test that is part of the application process, but you don't have to pay in order to apply.

There's not much of a difference there. It's 50$ either way, and if what PLAYER says is true you don't get them back even if you test clean but are rejected for other reasons. Either way it remains an obstacle that may well dissuade people from even applying in the first place.

You start the process by taking some classes. When you get to the point in the process for the drug test then you pay for the drug test. If you fall out of the program or are disqualified from the program before the drug test you do not have to pay the $50. Again YOU DO NOT PAY $50 TO APPLY!!!

Yeah, I got that. I said that (except for the taking classes part).

But if you are disqualified after you pay for the test, you apparently don't get the money back, whatever the reason you are disqualified for. Which sucks if you hardly have any money to begin with.

[Phatscotty]

Panhandling for a couple hours can get you $50 easy

[PLAYER57832]

You start the process by taking some classes. When you get to the point in the process for the drug test then you pay for the drug test. If you fall out of the program or are disqualified from the program before the drug test you do not have to pay the $50. Again YOU DO NOT PAY $50 TO APPLY!!!

Not sure where you get the idea that classes are required, but regardless, since the test is a requirement for applying, it IS very much a fee to apply. Further, you don't get the money back if you are disqualified for reasons that have nothing to do with taking drugs or not complying with the program. Maybe you have slightly too much income or whatever. People think they qualify, but find out they don't and they wind up out $50. So, whatever excuse you want to put on it, it amounts to an application fee that is only refunded if you both qualify and are free from drugs.

I don't have a problem getting people on drugs off welfare, but this program is not about truly doing that. It is about making money for the drug manufacturer and basically little else.

[Evil Semp]

You start the process by taking some classes. When you get to the point in the process for the drug test then you pay for the drug test. If you fall out of the program or are disqualified from the program before the drug test you do not have to pay the $50. Again YOU DO NOT PAY $50 TO APPLY!!!

Not sure where you get the idea that classes are required, but regardless, since the test is a requirement for applying, it IS very much a fee to apply. Further, you don't get the money back if you are disqualified for reasons that have nothing to do with taking drugs or not complying with the program. Maybe you have slightly too much income or whatever. People think they qualify, but find out they don't and they wind up out $50. So, whatever excuse you want to put on it, it amounts to an application fee that is only refunded if you both qualify and are free from drugs.

I don't have a problem getting people on drugs off welfare, but this program is not about truly doing that. It is about making money for the drug manufacturer and basically little else.

Have you gone through the process of applying for cash assistance in the state of Fl.? You seem to have trouble accepting facts that other people present. How are you an expert on welfare programs in FL.?

My place of employment went out of business in the end of July this year. I applied for cash assistance. There was no $50 fee asked for or paid. I went to a few of the classes required [personal knowledge is where I get the idea of classes required.] I was lucky enough to receive an offer of employment so I did not go far enough through the process of having to have the drug test. Again the drug test is not required for food stamps or medicaid. If the state was trying to make money for the drug processing company then I would think they would charge from the very beginning and not warn people about the drug test when you are filling out the paperwork.

There are my first hand credentials on the welfare system in the state of Fl. Player would you care to present your credentials?

[MeDeFe]

You start the process by taking some classes. When you get to the point in the process for the drug test then you pay for the drug test. If you fall out of the program or are disqualified from the program before the drug test you do not have to pay the $50. Again YOU DO NOT PAY $50 TO APPLY!!!

Not sure where you get the idea that classes are required, but regardless, since the test is a requirement for applying, it IS very much a fee to apply. Further, you don't get the money back if you are disqualified for reasons that have nothing to do with taking drugs or not complying with the program. Maybe you have slightly too much income or whatever. People think they qualify, but find out they don't and they wind up out $50. So, whatever excuse you want to put on it, it amounts to an application fee that is only refunded if you both qualify and are free from drugs.

I don't have a problem getting people on drugs off welfare, but this program is not about truly doing that. It is about making money for the drug manufacturer and basically little else.

Have you gone through the process of applying for cash assistance in the state of Fl.? You seem to have trouble accepting facts that other people present. How are you an expert on welfare programs in FL.?

My place of employment went out of business in the end of July this year. I applied for cash assistance. There was no $50 fee asked for or paid. I went to a few of the classes required [personal knowledge is where I get the idea of classes required.] I was lucky enough to receive an offer of employment so I did not go far enough through the process of having to have the drug test. Again the drug test is not required for food stamps or medicaid. If the state was trying to make money for the drug processing company then I would think they would charge from the very beginning and not warn people about the drug test when you are filling out the paperwork.

There are my first hand credentials on the welfare system in the state of Fl. Player would you care to present your credentials?

But if you had gone further in the process you would eventually have had to pay 50$ for the drug test. Correct?

[Woodruff]

So have there been any statistics released by the state of Florida as to
the cost-effectiveness of this program? I'm curious as to how much
money Governor Rick Sco...errr....I mean, the state of Florida made from this.

[Woodruff]

So have there been any statistics released by the state of Florida as to
the cost-effectiveness of this program? I'm curious as to how much
money Governor Rick Sco...errr....I mean, the state of Florida made from this.

Yeah, I didn't think Phatscotty would be jumping in to validate this one, not that I really blame him for not wanting to validate what his opposition was saying. But here's the information I found:
http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/ ... ar-252458/

But hey, Governor Scott's making bank from it, so that's all that's important, right?

[Phatscotty]

So have there been any statistics released by the state of Florida as to
the cost-effectiveness of this program? I'm curious as to how much
money Governor Rick Sco...errr....I mean, the state of Florida made from this.

Yeah, I didn't think Phatscotty would be jumping in to validate this one, not that I really blame him for not wanting to validate what his opposition was saying. But here's the information I found:
http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/ ... ar-252458/

But hey, Governor Scott's making bank from it, so that's all that's important, right?

I wouldn't be jumping now, but that's only because I shared the same link here around September.
But I only did that because I am biased n stuff...

That doesn't change my position that states have the right to choose how and who they are going to give handouts to.

[Timminz]

That doesn't change my position that states have the right to choose how and who they are going to give handouts to.

Exactly. Florida has decided that poor people need to be held to a higher standard in order to receive government money.

[Phatscotty]

That doesn't change my position that states have the right to choose how and who they are going to give handouts to.

Exactly. Florida has decided that poor people need to be held to a higher standard in order to receive government money.

Beggars can't be choosers

[Evil Semp]

So have there been any statistics released by the state of Florida as to
the cost-effectiveness of this program? I'm curious as to how much
money Governor Rick Sco...errr....I mean, the state of Florida made from this.

Yeah, I didn't think Phatscotty would be jumping in to validate this one, not that I really blame him for not wanting to validate what his opposition was saying. But here's the information I found:
http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/ ... ar-252458/

But hey, Governor Scott's making bank from it, so that's all that's important, right?

Woody I would like to know why 2% fail the test. You are told before you even start the paper work about the drug test. How many don't take the test because they know they would fail? How many don't even bother applying because they know they would fail the test?

If Rick Scott is personally making money because of the drug testing then there is a conflict of interest.

[Phatscotty]

So have there been any statistics released by the state of Florida as to
the cost-effectiveness of this program? I'm curious as to how much
money Governor Rick Sco...errr....I mean, the state of Florida made from this.

Yeah, I didn't think Phatscotty would be jumping in to validate this one, not that I really blame him for not wanting to validate what his opposition was saying. But here's the information I found:
http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/ ... ar-252458/

But hey, Governor Scott's making bank from it, so that's all that's important, right?

Woody I would like to know why 2% fail the test. You are told before you even start the paper work about the drug test. How many don't take the test because they know they would fail? How many don't even bother applying because they know they would fail the test?

If Rick Scott is personally making money because of the drug testing then there is a conflict of interest.

I agree semp. Of course that is a problem, but it does not affect of the testing for applicant or the idea or it's results, only his pockets (possibly), but if it was like that, wouldn't it also be easier for him to manipulate the testing kits or the decisions on who will be subjecting to testing and if that feedback is reported or not?

I mean if this was corrupt....wouldn't they have given us rosier corrupt results?

[Woodruff]

If Rick Scott is personally making money because of the drug testing then there is a conflict of interest.

You weren't aware of this? He signed up HIS company...oh, and then he transferred ownership of it to his wife. So yeah...huge conflict of interest. But that's not important, because poor people suck and should not get government money like rich people should!

[Phatscotty]

If Rick Scott is personally making money because of the drug testing then there is a conflict of interest.

You weren't aware of this? He signed up HIS company...oh, and then he transferred ownership of it to his wife. So yeah...huge conflict of interest. But that's not important, because poor people suck and should not get government money like rich people should!

total lib move

where the test kits come from and who profits from the test kits still has nothing to do with the principle of drug testing welfare applicants nor how one person feels about poor people.