Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[jak111]

I noticed it, just seems of no value to me for it is a single post from one person who wants to continue off of yesterday's list, which I was expecting someone would so for me it had no merit for acknowledgement, what's so important about it Doom?

[DoomYoshi]

I noticed it, just seems of no value to me for it is a single post from one person who wants to continue off of yesterday's list, which I was expecting someone would so for me it had no merit for acknowledgement, what's so important about it Doom?

Nothing necessarily important about it. Interesting that new guy didn't reply to it and nobody else offered any thoughts on it.

[Rodion]

I'd say Dazza was most likely SKed rather than vigged.

My thoughts on safari are largely the same as they were yesterday. We haven't had a cop come forth yet, so either the cop was roleblocked, didn't target saf or saf is a godfather.

Or the cop got an innocent? Why would you miss that from the pool of options?

With Safari's VT claim (that can't be proven by itself), I'm going to work from the premise that the cop did target him and got an innocent result (and when the cop later claims he can confirm or deny that).

Ghostly, vote count, please?

[gimli1990]

not really a whole lot to add at the moment i just wanted to say something as it has been a couple of days i said anything but here is what i got

i am a huge WWII buff and from the roles that have been revaeled and doing a bit of research on eahc one i beleive that the time period here is just before the battle of the bulge. but we are in the planning stages (as German were concerned) as we have a lot of high ranking people from both sides that we may be looking for the leader's of each nation not the commander's at the battle like President Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and most likely adolf hitler is the godfather we are looking for.

just some thoughts.

[new guy1]

I saw him calling me out. As far as that, I was not concerned about it as it is one vote and has relitively no merit in my opinion. As far as SK/vig, I find it much more likely an SK did it as I have always been told Vigs shouldnt shoot night 1. When talking about chapcrap, I dont think he looks particularly scummy but I will keep an eye on him and would not be against a claim from him, though I think we should limit our claims for today so that we dont out unessesary power roles. I believe that covers basically all conversations and if it doesnt then someone point it out and Ill give my take on it.

[chapcrap]

No, I'm asking what colour the sky is.. of course I'm asking what are you. We can do this the easy way or the hard way, preferably the easy since you are so sure of yourself. I don't care for a role at the moment, but what is your name if you're soo certain on who should and should not be in the game?

Well, then don't word the question like a weirdo.

I'm not gonna tell you what I am. And I'm not so sure of anything. I speculated because pmc asked me what I thought of a claim.

I'd say Dazza was most likely SKed rather than vigged.

My thoughts on safari are largely the same as they were yesterday. We haven't had a cop come forth yet, so either the cop was roleblocked, didn't target saf or saf is a godfather.

Or the cop got an innocent? Why would you miss that from the pool of options?

With Safari's VT claim (that can't be proven by itself), I'm going to work from the premise that the cop did target him and got an innocent result (and when the cop later claims he can confirm or deny that).

Ghostly, vote count, please?

Has Rodion added anything to the game? Why are you bringing the SK/vig issue again? It's already been discussed. This is at least the third post like this in the game. All you are doing is recapping things and trying to look active. I'm not even sure you've taken a side on a single case the whole game. And why would you operate under the assumption that the cop investigated someone who claimed? There are so many players in the game, that seems like a reach to me.

[pmchugh]

Hmm to re target my earlier question, chap what do you make of safari's claim?

I said yesterday that lynching him if we don't have anyone else would be ok. This is because first, it's just hard to buy a General being a VT. It may be more believable after the Brig was a VT. Second, because as jg already pointed out, that person wasn't even at the battle or in Europe. And saf himself just pointed out that the person was already dead by the battle. So, I would think that many other general or characters could have been substituted for a VT instead of one that doesn't even fit in the battle.

Bottom line: not that believable.

Hmm, I was baiting you a little and I'm not sure if you passed. Seems like you don't have a particularly strong view and I am always suspicious when people agree that they would lynch someone but don't actually go for it. However at least your position is consistent and you seem to be at least looking at other players (rodion the latest) so you are off the hook for now.

[Leehar]

not really a whole lot to add at the moment i just wanted to say something as it has been a couple of days i said anything but here is what i got

i am a huge WWII buff and from the roles that have been revaeled and doing a bit of research on eahc one i beleive that the time period here is just before the battle of the bulge. but we are in the planning stages (as German were concerned) as we have a lot of high ranking people from both sides that we may be looking for the leader's of each nation not the commander's at the battle like President Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and most likely adolf hitler is the godfather we are looking for.

just some thoughts.

More like I haven't seen you around at all (since you got called out by saf) and the best we see from you is some Flavour spec this far on? You came up with completely nothing in your read-through? :s

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I'd say Dazza was most likely SKed rather than vigged.

My thoughts on safari are largely the same as they were yesterday. We haven't had a cop come forth yet, so either the cop was roleblocked, didn't target saf or saf is a godfather.

Or the cop got an innocent? Why would you miss that from the pool of options?

With Safari's VT claim (that can't be proven by itself), I'm going to work from the premise that the cop did target him and got an innocent result (and when the cop later claims he can confirm or deny that).

Ghostly, vote count, please?

and if the cop didnt get an inocent or the cop didnt investigat him at all? what about then? your speculating on the small chance that he did get an innocent. and if he didnt would he come out or would he just wait cause losing cop night 2 would suck throughout the game and its not like the doc can protect everynight. but then what if there is a busdriver in this game and he isnt mafia then he could do that. see you can just say that your assuming he did cause then your assuming he is town with no proof what-so-ever and it may let mafia slide through the entire game. you even said his claim cant be proven! so why would you so go so hard on him being innocent by cop result when there is no cop result?

[safariguy5]

jak, you still haven't answered my question of why you won't reveal who you targeted for protection on Night 1. I'm not seeing how revealing that information is a bad thing, and it's not like we'll be able to find out who you targeted if you die. I think we need every piece of information we can get right now, and I think that night action may help.

[DoomYoshi]

jak, you still haven't answered my question of why you won't reveal who you targeted for protection on Night 1. I'm not seeing how revealing that information is a bad thing, and it's not like we'll be able to find out who you targeted if you die. I think we need every piece of information we can get right now, and I think that night action may help.

Agreed.

[jak111]

Not agreed, if I decide to protect the same person then I cannot guarantee that my action will do anything. Why should I let you know Saf? The ONLY way that it'd be useful to you is if you were mafia at this moment, since it's obvious since the mafia got a kill last night my protection did nothing, therefore there is nothing for the town to gain from my action, only mafia. For that, FOS Saf for not thinking that very basic logic through.

The only thing a doc's night action will do if he protected no one is tell the mafia whom he may be protecting, otherwise it's a worthless piece of information that falls into the wrong hands. If you do not like my reasoning Saf, go ahead and vote me, fos me, do something, because my night action is only useful to those who plan to kill tonight.

Onto the Chap case, I really feel uneasy around you Chap, something is sending off alarms every post. My eyes are on you.

As for Doom, have you contributed to this game since the case on you was dropped for outing the doc?
Quotes from Doom:

I didn't have much of a read on dazza either way. It is unfortunate we lost /. Hopefully he comes back as town again. / makes definite sense as a mafia kill though, due to his experience and the way he re-centred the town and provide a much needed counter-argument. It is difficult to say whether he was right about any of his guesses though.

My thoughts on safari are largely the same as they were yesterday. We haven't had a cop come forth yet, so either the cop was roleblocked, didn't target saf or saf is a godfather.

If the BW will lean chap's way, I am fine with pressuring him for a claim.

Not sure I like the line of questioning, but if chap will let jak get away with it, I am fine with that.

The only part I disagree with is that one player is asking one other player for a claim, if only a partial one. Usually you need a BW. To that end, Vote chap

everywhere116 wrote:
Well, we could look at the list from yesterday. The highest was safari, but we already got a claim from him. Next is gordon, then new guy. I think that's as good a point as any.

Vote new guy for pressure.


Interesting that this is seemingly missed by most of the players, new guy and myself included.

jak111 wrote:
I noticed it, just seems of no value to me for it is a single post from one person who wants to continue off of yesterday's list, which I was expecting someone would so for me it had no merit for acknowledgement, what's so important about it Doom?


Nothing necessarily important about it. Interesting that new guy didn't reply to it and nobody else offered any thoughts on it.

safariguy5 wrote:
jak, you still haven't answered my question of why you won't reveal who you targeted for protection on Night 1. I'm not seeing how revealing that information is a bad thing, and it's not like we'll be able to find out who you targeted if you die. I think we need every piece of information we can get right now, and I think that night action may help.


Agreed.

These are his last couple of posts so everyone can see it more clearly. The day starts with Doom not having much of a read on Dazza, why would he, he's been pretty inactive himself.
Then he moves onto Saf and says his thoughts are still the same on him as they were yesterday and that the ONLY options for the cop were either roleblocked, didn't target saf, or saf is god father... Forbid that he be a townie, right?
He moves onto saying he'll pressure Chap if needed, then he didn't like the questions I asked Chap PRESSURING him, then he moves to voting Chap. Sort of a cyclone of thoughts there Doom?
Later he moves onto quoting Everywhere of whom he quoted because Everywhere used down the list logic of yesterday's list.
Finally, he wants whom the doc targeted last night when there clearly wasn't a save. What information will that do for you Doom?
FOS Doom

So, my list is still holding the following:
~Chapcrap
~DoomYoshi
~Safariguy

Right now Doom is rising in the ranks of whom I find most scummy, however there's something about chapcrap that still sends alarms off in my head.

[ghostly447]

Sorry everyone, I had a crazy weekend. I will be issuing a mass prod tonight, and here is the current vote count. Hopefully I got it right.


Official Simplified Vote Count

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch


ChapCrap – Jak111, Leehar, Doomyoshi
New Guy1 – Everywhere

Deadline: 5/20/2012 9pm EST. Approximately 1 week and 18 minutes from now.

[ghostly447]

15 alive. 8 to lynch. Sorry

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Sorry everyone, I had a crazy weekend. I will be issuing a mass prod tonight, and here is the current vote count. Hopefully I got it right.


Official Simplified Vote Count

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch


ChapCrap – Jak111, Leehar, Doomyoshi
New Guy1 – Everywhere

Deadline: 5/20/2012 9pm EST. Approximately 1 week and 18 minutes from now.

lol ya you did

anyway i didnt believe id ever say this but i agree with jak. he shouldnt give anything away like that. i dont know why you would want him to? is there really a reason you would want that? whats it matter if we know or dont know? its not like anyone can confirm that and if they can it wouldnt confirm doc. so it would not help us in any way

[DoomYoshi]

Jak, you are saying I am scummy for thinking someone else who you also think is scummy is scummy. Obviously that saf is town is a possibility, but I don't think it is likely - and neither do you!

Second. You asked chap for a claim. If i ask clever for a claim, is he obliged to give it? No, since I am only one person. It requires a BW to ask someone for a claim, and I helped you towards that end. Perhaps it was a flurry of thought, but if you read it in slow motion, it should make perfect sense.

Finally, knowing who you saved can help me catch you in a lie. If you say you targetted clever last night, but the town watcher didn't see you at clever's them we know something is up. If safari guy is on your scummy list but you protected safari guy then we know something is up. You are correct that it can help mafia, but incorrect as to how it can help mafia. It will help mafia in that if you protected one of them, they know they are doing something right and will continue to buddy with you. So, unless you think that you protected mafia last night, there is no reason to withhold the information. Now, it is possible that something with actions is amiss, like a bus driver or something. The more we know to that end, the better.

[DoomYoshi]

Fast posted by clever... Usually only scum 100% believe town claims. Have we caught a misstep here?

[thechuck51]

Mass prod received.

I've read Saf and Chap's posts and I don't really see anything scummy about what they have said.

I'm inclined to believe Jak since I really though he and JGordon were scum Day 1 and I was shown to be wrong (about JG at least).

Right now I am most suspicious of Doom, just because of his post regarding the cop investigating Saf. However its not enough to cast a vote.

I will do a more thorough read through and see if I can come up with something useful.

[jgordon1111]

oooooohhh oooooohhh oooooohh

[everywhere116]

The part about listing the possibilites about the cop/safari interactions still confuse me, Doom. Why didn't you include "safari is investigated as innocent" as one of your possibilities?

[DoomYoshi]

It is not something I am willing to believe, and it is an obvious possibility.

[Rodion]

Has Rodion added anything to the game?

Is this adressed at me?

Why are you bringing the SK/vig issue again? It's already been discussed.

The post you refer to is my first D2 post (I'm not counting the one where I just said I was fine with / replacing because that one is not meaningful), so I voiced my opinions about everything regarding D2 that I considered relevant. I do not care if you think the deadline for discussing the SK/vig issue expired: I had not weighed in on the subject and I used my first post to briefly offer my thoughts.

This is at least the third post like this in the game.

Exactly. Since I'm tired of this let me give you my final take on that in bullepoints.

1 - Before the game even started I mentioned I would be less active than usual D1 and D2 (page 2).
2 - If you were to take issue with that, you should have asked Ghostly not to accept me in the game at all. Now that the game has started I think it's a little bit late to complain.
3 - I'm not posting frequently and sometimes I don't post in consecutive days.
4 - Unless I say otherwise, when I make a post, I'll have read everything from my last post until the current moment of the game.
5 - That post will cover everything I wish it to cover, regardless of whether one or more players have concluded there is no more to be said about it.
6 - I'll be more active D3 onwards.

Just so we are perfectly clear, if I make a post on page 80 and the game goes to page 95, my next post may contain opinions on things that have been discussed back in pages 80-81.

All you are doing is recapping things and trying to look active. I'm not even sure you've taken a side on a single case the whole game.

I'm less active than usual and I'd be a fool if I tried to hide that, especially when I have already admitted to it. I took sides ("jgordon is fakeclaiming", "jak is scummy" before he claimed doctor, "the Yoshi case is weak", "after jgordon, saf and chap strike me as the most scummy players").

And why would you operate under the assumption that the cop investigated someone who claimed? There are so many players in the game, that seems like a reach to me.

+

and if the cop didnt get an inocent or the cop didnt investigat him at all? what about then? your speculating on the small chance that he did get an innocent. and if he didnt would he come out or would he just wait cause losing cop night 2 would suck throughout the game and its not like the doc can protect everynight. but then what if there is a busdriver in this game and he isnt mafia then he could do that. see you can just say that your assuming he did cause then your assuming he is town with no proof what-so-ever and it may let mafia slide through the entire game. you even said his claim cant be proven! so why would you so go so hard on him being innocent by cop result when there is no cop result?

Safari was ranked the 2nd most suspicious player in the game. The 1st one died. Safari claimed VT. If you don't investigate Safari and just drop the case, he'll likely cruise through the game as he is not obligated to report night actions for further confirmation of his role. That is why I think a cop should have targeted him. I'm assuming Safari is town "for now", but once the cop claims we'll be able to revisit that.

Yoshi mentioned that the fact that the cop did not come forward with a guilty on Safari could mean one of 3 things:
a) Safari is godfather
b) cop was roleblocked
c) cop decided to investigate someone else

I said that there is a "d" ("cop got an innocent") and I consider "d" to be more likely than the other options. If you really want to cover all possibilities, I guess you could create an "e" ("cop got a guilty and is trying to get Safari killed without having to claim" -> this is the correct cop play, but it takes someone smart to do it), a "f" ("PLOT TWIST! There is no cop!) and maybe more...

Since I think that a cop likely investigated Safari and likely got an innocent, I'd rather see the Safari wagon derail for now so we don't risk seeing him go L-1 just to have our cop out himself with an innocent result.

And that brings us to this. With my decision not to lynch Safari for now, next player up on my list is Chap. Now that we have an updated vote count I can vote chapcrap.

Yoshi's answer did not appease me. He thought of cop scenarios and didn't mention one that he "is not willing to believe", in spite of it being "obvious". That earns him a FOS in case Safari flips town.

[Ragian]

Mass prod received. I don't have too much to add, I think

- I don't find doom to be very scummy due to the result-thing he posted.
- I can't see why chap is majorly scummy in jak's eyes.
- I don't see why we shouldn't have jak tell us whom he protected last night with the information and suggestions already on the table.

The replacements haven't been adding too much:
- gimli has put in some posts, but it is mostly flavour-reltated.
- dj has three posts in total since he confirmed on May 3 (although a lot of the time was nighttime).

But really I haven't been adding much either, so perhaps I shouldn't be the one bringing this up I can't see anyone slipping up and I don't see if we're closer to anything than yesterday.

If anything, this puzzled me a bit:

I saw him calling me out. As far as that, I was not concerned about it as it is one vote and has relitively no merit in my opinion. As far as SK/vig, I find it much more likely an SK did it as I have always been told Vigs shouldnt shoot night 1. When talking about chapcrap, I dont think he looks particularly scummy but I will keep an eye on him and would not be against a claim from him, though I think we should limit our claims for today so that we dont out unessesary power roles. I believe that covers basically all conversations and if it doesnt then someone point it out and Ill give my take on it.

I reckon it's not supposed to be "out unnecessary power roles", but something more along the lines of "out power roles unnecessarily". Also, I found it somewhat weird that new guy wants to limit the claims today, but is alright with chap claiming. It's somewhat weird to me because this day has almost just started and if you want to limit the claims today, why focus on the one you don't find particularly scummy? Humm ... I seem to have persuaded myself vote new guy1. Throw in the last bit where he says that if he hasn't addressed everything, people should point it out to him too. I would suggest that you keep up instead

Let's see if there's merit in two votes. (Seems I did have something to add after all )

[Ragian]

Hadn't seen Rodion's post. Weird that I wasn't fastposted. Does that ever happen to you?

Anyway ...

@Rodion, are you just voting chap because he was second on your list yesterday? And is he on your list only for being on your case? (Just trying to understand fully.) As I read your post, doom is your major concern ... well ... obviously he's not since you voted chap, but what I got from your post was that you found doom's leaving out the innocent result possibility alarming, yet it only earns him a FoS where chap earns a vote. Basically, I'm asking why you find chap the most suspicious, I think

[pmchugh]

It is not something I am willing to believe, and it is an obvious possibility.

Not willing to believe it? That is a bit extreme, why wouldn't you?