[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[strike wolf]

Dazza, you might say that now, but I quoted most of your posts and as it shows I got the impression you stood up and then held back. That's the way I see it. If it turns out to be wrong, I'll accept my mistake. There is nothing wrong with outing suspicions, right?

I do believe though it is easy for the mafia to jump on my case now that some people have FOSed me. So I'll keep an eye on this!

Did you just super skim dazza's last post. FOS Leitz for a weak case on dazza then failing to respond to the defense (still think trini is slightly more suspicious but I wouldn't mind lynching either of 'em).

Tell me, Why am I more suspicious? Because I understood strike's claim? wow - that is suspicious or is it because I listed you as one of the possible suspects for mafia?

Well after he had made it pretty obvious he was softclaiming some form of beneficial role and then when he adds v. little to it you understand - I find strange at best.

Well quite simply, I will not go after someone because they picked up on the soft claim.

[chapcrap]

About dazza:

I don't think a scum would risk the hammer if I did not do it, so that's in his favor. However, if I didn't do it, I would basically be lynched Day 3, no matter what. He had to know that and know that I would hammer. So, it was pretty low risk either way. One thing that he did was skim the fact that I initially said I would lynch. He acted like he didn't see it. Now, I don't know if he actually missed it (skimming) or if he pretended to miss it so that he could come back later and say he thought he was first (scummy). I mostly believe that he is town, even though before the end of Day 2 he acted a little scummy. However, he is not cleared in my eyes.

About Leitz:

While I think he has been acting a little scummy the whole time, I'm not sure what I attribute it too. It almost seems like he is a noob about it and he is posting just to post. I'm not sure.

[pancakemix]

I unvoted BG because I know how he plays. We play mafia in our clan forum and from his game play I would never expect him to claim VT if he was scum on day 1. He would try something else in an attempt to survive. Scum claiming VT would normally get lynched.

I would say that generally any player wouldn't claim VT unless it was true. So that argument doesn't work. And guess what? It still got him lynched. Could it be that you knew for a fact that he was telling the truth? And without being psychic of breaking the rules, there's really only one option...

I did hop about from case to case. I never saw anything I could build a stronger case on so I joined in on the case I believed to be the strongest at the time. We never had a lot to go on so what do you want me to do? Just sit here doing nothing?

Well, instead of repeating verbatim what others said you could have added to the case or at least just said "X makes some good points on Y". Still follow-the-leader play, but a bit more discreet.

How on earth could I be confident I would not be blown up? If I was scum I would not have got involved.

Also how could I be confident Chap was going to hammer? I was in bed when the deadline passed and there is no way of me knowing chap would even be online. The only way I could be 100% sure he would hammer is if we were multis and he is in USA and I am in Scotland so thats not likely is it?

This whole case seems like scum trying to take off of a scum-mate.

The character was a clown. It made perfect sense that it was fake right there.

I don't even know what you're trying to read into that. All you had to do was leave it for him to vote and that was it. I'm saying you offered to drop the hammer but you never actually intended to do it. Chap had already put forward that he would do it when you offered, making your offer useless.

As I said, I had not read Lietz' and found it more scattered than anything else. I'm not backing up what he was saying; I came to my conclusion independently from his case.

[Leitz]

...

About Leitz:

While I think he has been acting a little scummy the whole time, I'm not sure what I attribute it too. It almost seems like he is a noob about it and he is posting just to post. I'm not sure.

I've mentioned this before, but in the beginning in the game I had less time due to classes and staying over at my girlfriends. Now I am in exams so, unlikely as it seems, I have more free time to read through everything & post.

[betiko]

I have to say there is something strange about the dazza case.
he sort of softclaims VT by insinuating he can hammer and it won't be a huge problem if the town loses him. Chap had already proposed...
-Interest for the town? a VT unnecessary softclaim and 2 hammer volunteers to chose from instead of 1.
-Interest for Dazza? brownie points. Also he was kind of tired with all the rodion crap, and that move made things even longer and more complicated.

He did put himself in a tough spot voting the l-1 and going to bed withought knowing what chap would do. I am not certain it's a risk a scum would take but it's possible. as we said earlier, after all he said, chap was against the wall and everybody would've gone after him on this day 3 if he didn't hammer. So it was like 95% sure chap would stand to his word...
But Dazza couldn't be sure when he proposed to hammer rodion that he wouldn't ve been the chosen one to hammer instead of chap... and in that case he would've had to do it no matter what.
Chances of getting to hammer? less than 50% because we could've chosen other players than chap or dazza. then let's say over 50% chances rodion was fakeclaiming (either he had another town role either a scum role) and that wouldn't ve lead to an explosion. so let's say 20% for a 1-1: 80% chances for a 1-0 scum +town brownie points in the case he is a scum skimming all this plan.

I don't know, the problem with this theory is that it's easy to create links and a pattern to events that have already happened, but can someone elaborate such plan when he obviously knows much less information that we do now?

I am still going to FOS Dazza.
Also, I want to FOS pancakemix for the "clown argument" against dazza (when he said the clown should've suggested it was a fakeclaim), really irrelevant in my opinion.

Regarding leitz, like chap I think there is a little something strange but nothing particular. also real life stuff seem to make him be more or less active, which is understandable.

[chapcrap]

I was gone for almost 3 days and I came back expecting much more than 3 posts.

Come on guys!!!

[BGtheBrain]

****

[Epitaph1]

I've been leaning Leitz over Dazza. I had pretty much written Dazza off as townie when he volunteered to hammer Rodion. Although people have made some interesting points about whether or not Dazza truly thought he would have to hammer, I'm still not convinced that his actions were scummy.

Leitz has been more active today, but he didn't really add anything substantive until chap mentioned that he was up to "more of the same scummy stuff." That's when Leitz started a case on Daz, which I'm not really buying.

[betiko]

I've been leaning Leitz over Dazza. I had pretty much written Dazza off as townie when he volunteered to hammer Rodion. Although people have made some interesting points about whether or not Dazza truly thought he would have to hammer, I'm still not convinced that his actions were scummy.

Leitz has been more active today, but he didn't really add anything substantive until chap mentioned that he was up to "more of the same scummy stuff." That's when Leitz started a case on Daz, which I'm not really buying.

hum well, basically you are saying that leitz didn't add any substance that's why you thought he was acting scummy (not you nor chap have really been able to see anything factual about his possible scumtells). then he started a case on daz: which is adding a bit of substance there, and yet you criticize him for doing so?
I get your point. he finds himself pressured for the first time in the game so he goes quickly for a case. but it's also kind of a normal reaction I would say.

Medefe is really quiet here, barely seen him post on day 3 by the way.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

leitz (2)- strike, MoB
trini(1)- jonty
dazza(1)- PCM

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

It seems like voting has stalled somewhat. I'm going to set a 2 week deadline. Day will end Midnight on January 23rd PST. If a lynch is not made by that time, no lynch will be declared.

[Epitaph1]

I've been leaning Leitz over Dazza. I had pretty much written Dazza off as townie when he volunteered to hammer Rodion. Although people have made some interesting points about whether or not Dazza truly thought he would have to hammer, I'm still not convinced that his actions were scummy.

Leitz has been more active today, but he didn't really add anything substantive until chap mentioned that he was up to "more of the same scummy stuff." That's when Leitz started a case on Daz, which I'm not really buying.

hum well, basically you are saying that leitz didn't add any substance that's why you thought he was acting scummy (not you nor chap have really been able to see anything factual about his possible scumtells). then he started a case on daz: which is adding a bit of substance there, and yet you criticize him for doing so?
I get your point. he finds himself pressured for the first time in the game so he goes quickly for a case. but it's also kind of a normal reaction I would say.

Medefe is really quiet here, barely seen him post on day 3 by the way.

I find it disingenuous (read: scummy) that someone would start a case only after scrutiny had been directed at him- or herself. It comes across as deflecting the heat more than anything.

For the sake of getting things moving: vote leitz

[betiko]

well with the 2 weeks deadline I think we better get something going on ASAP if we don't want this to end up in a no lynch and given the reactivity we had after the rodion fakeclaim.. after my previous post explanations:

vote dazza

[Leitz]

Alright so, first of all, Epitaph: himself Secondly: when you compare my activity with others, yes, I have been more silent. That was the reason why people turned towards me on D3. I explained why this was the case and why I am more active now (real life situations). The heat on me was purely because of my previous activity, which I believe I clearly proved and explained the reasons behind that.

In D3 nothing really has happened yet so far so it was easy to pressure me because I hadn't said much yet before. But besides that, nothing really happened in D3. Town is already in a minority, so it is time that some mafia gets lynched. That is why I reread D2 and brought up the dazza case, which I still stand behind so:

Unvote, vote dazza

[dazza2008]

I have defended myself against these cases. Not sure what else I can say really.

If it was scummy to offer to hammer after Chap said he would then I played badly. I just really wanted to get the lynch on Rodion done. I was pretty sure he was fake claiming and I was right. I never expected him to be fakecliming as town though. That play still baffles me.

[MoB Deadly]

Town is already in a minority, so it is time that some mafia gets lynched. That is why I reread D2 and brought up the dazza case, which I still stand behind so:

What?? These are the things that keep pressing my buttons. With 12 players alive how is town in the minority? And if we were the minority, the game would be over already.

[jonty125]

I don't see much of a case on Leitz or dazza but if we need the lynch I'll go for dazza because he volunteered to hammer even after chap had said he would.

[strike wolf]

The Leitz case seems a bit more straight forward to me than the dazza case to be honest. Dazza's case is more interesting and there's a decent chance PCM is right but there's also seems to be a few mitigating factors to the case. I stick by my vote on Leitz.

[chapcrap]

well with the 2 weeks deadline I think we better get something going on ASAP if we don't want this to end up in a no lynch

Hurry up!! We only have two weeks!

Anyway...

Epitaph, just because Leitz tried to make a case on dazza, doesn't make him scummy. What would you do if you were getting pressured? What else would you have him do? Roll over and take it? That is the best option he has if he isn't an obvious town power role. And he if he is, it's a better option than having to claim. Especially at this point. So, do I think Leitz is scummy? A little, but not in any way because he tried to make a (potentially) better case against dazza.

MeDeFe?

[betiko]

well with the 2 weeks deadline I think we better get something going on ASAP if we don't want this to end up in a no lynch

Hurry up!! We only have two weeks!

Anyway...

I was gone for almost 3 days and I came back expecting much more than 3 posts.

Come on guys!!!

well with the 2 weeks deadline I think we better get something going on ASAP if we don't want this to end up in a no lynch and given the reactivity we had after the rodion fakeclaim..

dude, you just saw how surprisingly slow things have been going; last time you wrote something here was to complain about the little activity; saf also noticed it and gave a deadline. given how fast things are going do you really think that 2 weeks is plenty of time? the only thing that happened is strike's name claim today: we have leads but nothing too serious yet.
why quote just the part of the sentence that surprised you if that same sentence is self explanatory by reading it till the end?

[chapcrap]

well with the 2 weeks deadline I think we better get something going on ASAP if we don't want this to end up in a no lynch

Hurry up!! We only have two weeks!

Anyway...

I was gone for almost 3 days and I came back expecting much more than 3 posts.

Come on guys!!!

well with the 2 weeks deadline I think we better get something going on ASAP if we don't want this to end up in a no lynch and given the reactivity we had after the rodion fakeclaim..

dude, you just saw how surprisingly slow things have been going; last time you wrote something here was to complain about the little activity; saf also noticed it and gave a deadline. given how fast things are going do you really think that 2 weeks is plenty of time? the only thing that happened is strike's name claim today: we have leads but nothing too serious yet.
why quote just the part of the sentence that surprised you if that same sentence is self explanatory by reading it till the end?

It's not a big deal really that you said it, I just don't think 2 weeks is a short amount of time. Either way, it doesn't have anything to do with the game and I wasn't trying to make you sound scummy or anything.

[Epitaph1]

Epitaph, just because Leitz tried to make a case on dazza, doesn't make him scummy. What would you do if you were getting pressured? What else would you have him do? Roll over and take it? That is the best option he has if he isn't an obvious town power role. And he if he is, it's a better option than having to claim. Especially at this point. So, do I think Leitz is scummy? A little, but not in any way because he tried to make a (potentially) better case against dazza.

MeDeFe?

My point is that it took pressure from the rest of us before he started doing anything of substance. I understand that he was busy before Christmas, but even on D3 he was posting but not saying anything until someone (I think it was chap) mentioned he was kinda scummy. Sure, highlighting another player can be one way to deal with pressure, but I just find the timing of such a case suspect.

Like I said earlier, I didn't find Dazza's offer to hammer scummy. But I have a feeling D3 will come down to whether we like a case against her or Leitz.

I thought MeDeFe was submarining for the first half of the game, but then came around at the end of D2 when many people were tailing off. I could be mistaken about the timing, but I'll go back and check. The lack of inactivity was the only thing that stuck out to me re: MeDeFe.

[strike wolf]

Epitaph, just because Leitz tried to make a case on dazza, doesn't make him scummy. What would you do if you were getting pressured? What else would you have him do? Roll over and take it? That is the best option he has if he isn't an obvious town power role. And he if he is, it's a better option than having to claim. Especially at this point. So, do I think Leitz is scummy? A little, but not in any way because he tried to make a (potentially) better case against dazza.

MeDeFe?

My point is that it took pressure from the rest of us before he started doing anything of substance. I understand that he was busy before Christmas, but even on D3 he was posting but not saying anything until someone (I think it was chap) mentioned he was kinda scummy. Sure, highlighting another player can be one way to deal with pressure, but I just find the timing of such a case suspect.

Like I said earlier, I didn't find Dazza's offer to hammer scummy. But I have a feeling D3 will come down to whether we like a case against her or Leitz.

I thought MeDeFe was submarining for the first half of the game, but then came around at the end of D2 when many people were tailing off. I could be mistaken about the timing, but I'll go back and check. The lack of inactivity was the only thing that stuck out to me re: MeDeFe.

Pretty much what Epitaph said. The only thing that sticks out to me about MeDeFe is inactivity and on Day 3 in a game where overall activity has been decent, we can do better than that. Meanwhile, Leitz became more active when pressure was thrown his way as Epitaph said. I find him the most viable lynch.

[jonty125]

unvote I aren't going to get support for a trini lynch

Leitz and dazza both have 3 votes so town need to back one case or we'll end up splitting the vote for a no lynch (I personally recommend dazza)

[Leitz]

Pretty much what Epitaph said. The only thing that sticks out to me about MeDeFe is inactivity and on Day 3 in a game where overall activity has been decent, we can do better than that. Meanwhile, Leitz became more active when pressure was thrown his way as Epitaph said. I find him the most viable lynch.

I'm not sure who, I think it was chap, but like he said: if the pressure is on me it seems logical that I am going to defend myself. I pointed out the lower activity before and since D3. Before I got pressured the only thing that happened was strike who claimed. I did not have anything useful to add to that so yes the substance of my posts were smaller. Activity started to drop in this thread and people started to turn towards me, the 'easy target'. It is logical I am going to point out that it is not me who should be targeted but somebody else I believe who showed some scum tells in his play. That is when I made the dazza case.

[safariguy5]

MeDeFe has been prodded.