The 2024 Elections in the US, mostly Harris vs. Trump

[HitRed]

funny

[Dukasaur]

Never vaxxed

Been vaxxed 3 times without side eFfectS

I was vaxxed 3 times. Side effects? Well, none from the first and the third.

From the second, maybe. My Afib got significantly worse after my second vaccination. Was there a causative link? Maybe, maybe not. One of those things that nobody will ever know for sure. But I don't outright dismiss the claims that the vaccines can, in some cases, lead to a variety of cardiac problems.

Still, knowing that it might have led to a worsening of my Afib, would I do it again? Yes, yes I would. Everything in life is a trade-off, a balancing of risks. As a 60 year old fat guy and a former heavy smoker, I'm in not one, not two, but three high-risk groups. Not going to bore you with crunching the numbers (mainly based on approximations and suppositions anyway) but in my opinion the tiny risk of a worsening of Afib versus a fairly high risk of a serious bout of Covid was worth it.

Last year I actually had Covid around the time I was due for my fourth shot, and since actually having a disease creates a stronger immune response than a vaccination, I didn't bother getting the fourth and I probably won't bother again this year. But next year I very well might.

Health conditions aren't either/or decisions. There's balancing of multiple considerations, and in the end we make our own decisions and live with them.

[Dukasaur]

"Heroes" is a bit of an overstatement, but if they can do something good for the world, it will be one small step towards making amends for their war crimes.

Churchill had to work with Stalin. Sometimes, saving the world requires working with people you wouldn't want near your children.

I don’t know your stance in the election and I am not implying a specific stance this is a general question.

If working with war criminals is required to save the world, then would working with Trump/Biden be worth saving the world? Doesn’t them being willing to work with you concern you? What about your stance would entice them?

I don’t think war criminals really change. Especially not without a public apology.

What is worse rape and fraud of a few or war crimes against millions? Isn’t it sad that this is even a question?

Note on the above question: This is not to open a discussion on whether Trump/Biden did these things. Generally people have believed these things about at least one of them. If you believe neither have I still think it’s a valid question.

I'm not sure I completely understand the question.

I agree with you that war criminals aren't going to change. They're still criminals. It would be lovely if they were prosecuted, but we know they won't be. Only the war criminals on the losing side get hanged. The war criminals on the winning side have boulevards named after them.

So, if they can be channeled into doing some good work, why not? Now, if it meant the difference between getting them punished or not punished, I would have reservations. But we know that won't happen. No matter what, these guys aren't going to get their just desserts.

Let's look at a non-political example. The song that Charlie Manson wrote and Guns'n'Roses recorded (although they were so scared of the backlash that they didn't give him credit.) Charlie Manson, I think we can all agree, was a real dirty asshole. He had a number of people murdered in horrible ways, as well as an assortment of lesser crimes, and as far as we can tell he never did any good for anyone. So, pretty much pure bad guy that nobody will defend.

And then, he wrote Look At Your Game, and mailed it off to Guns'n'Roses, and they thought it was good enough to record, and they recorded it. Some people are still outraged by this, but why? It's not like his punishment was lessened by writing the song. Nobody suddenly thought he was a nice guy. He didn't make any money from it, he didn't get time off his sentence, he didn't even really get any kudos. It was a song, it was good, they recorded it, end of story. A guy who was pretty much irredeemable shit made a tiny positive contribution to music.

Dick Cheney being able to help save America from another round of Trumpitis is not going to bring back the 100,000 innocent Iraqis that were slaughtered as a result of Bush's War. On the other hand, it's not going to hurt them, either. It's a positive action that isn't going to tip the scales of justice for past crimes in either direction.

[Votanic]

[mookiemcgee]

https://x.com/gipple_taylor/status/1833 ... ode%3Dtrue

Dick Cheney is apparently behind the UFO coverups, i don't know what that does to anyones morality calculators

[Pack Rat]

Trump is a disgrace to our fallen men and women in the military.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFRYt5j2/

[Votanic]

Trump is a disgrace to our fallen men and women in the military.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFRYt5j2/

Actually almost all national politicians show up at military ceremonies for such events, so this is just another example of leftist Trump exceptionalism.

Seriously, what is your point? No cameras in near graves?

Look, the Anga live with the smoked corpses of their ancestors. Everybody does death a little differnet. You need to just chill.
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/2015 ... ient-world

[Pack Rat]

Trump is a disgrace to our fallen men and women in the military.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTFRYt5j2/

Actually almost all national politicians show up at military ceremonies for such events, so this is just another example of leftist Trump exceptionalism.

Seriously, what is your point? No cameras in near graves?

Look, the Anga live with the smoked corpses of their ancestors. Everybody does death a little differnet. You need to just chill.
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/2015 ... ient-world

Not to expect you to know the rules concerning protocols of our fallen military members. Trump actually smiles with a thumbs up over the grave of an American soldier.

[kentington]

Sorry there are a lot of posts. I didn't see this one yet.

"Heroes" is a bit of an overstatement, but if they can do something good for the world, it will be one small step towards making amends for their war crimes.

Churchill had to work with Stalin. Sometimes, saving the world requires working with people you wouldn't want near your children.

If working with war criminals is required to save the world, then would working with Trump/Biden be worth saving the world? Doesn’t them being willing to work with you concern you? What about your stance would entice them?

What is worse rape and fraud of a few or war crimes against millions? Isn’t it sad that this is even a question?

I'm not sure I completely understand the question.

I agree with you that war criminals aren't going to change. They're still criminals. It would be lovely if they were prosecuted, but we know they won't be. Only the war criminals on the losing side get hanged. The war criminals on the winning side have boulevards named after them.

So, if they can be channeled into doing some good work, why not? Now, if it meant the difference between getting them punished or not punished, I would have reservations. But we know that won't happen. No matter what, these guys aren't going to get their just desserts.

Charlie Manson Parable

Dick Cheney being able to help save America from another round of Trumpitis is not going to bring back the 100,000 innocent Iraqis that were slaughtered as a result of Bush's War. On the other hand, it's not going to hurt them, either. It's a positive action that isn't going to tip the scales of justice for past crimes in either direction.

Modified a bit to shorten it. I excluded the Charlie Manson story, but I will briefly address that. Yes, Manson did not receive any financial benefits from writing the song. However, he was paid with publicity/infamy. Something that does have value and glamorizes people like him.

War criminals can't really make amends. I mean regular Joe Schmoe goes to jail for attempted murder, and most likely gets life if they are successful in doing the killing. But 100,000 innocents is something we can make amends for? No, like my post before in reply to mookie, they should be condemning and shunning war criminals.

I am only saying that most people are arguing the immoral character of Trump, all the while accepting the immoral from those they like. For instance, a lot claim Trump's racism as a reason to not vote for him. But Harris claimed Biden was a racist in the 2020 debates, then she worked with him and praised him.

So, my question may have not been asked well and my comment may have unraveled a bit. But my intent was that I think it would be more valuable if they stood their ground on the things they believed were immoral, rather than welcoming them into the fold. I am just trying to wrap my head around the hate for Trump based on his morals, but the lack of hate for those who have the same morals but agree in other areas.

Maybe that was still unclear.

[jusplay4fun]

Sorry there are a lot of posts. I didn't see this one yet.

"Heroes" is a bit of an overstatement, but if they can do something good for the world, it will be one small step towards making amends for their war crimes.

Churchill had to work with Stalin. Sometimes, saving the world requires working with people you wouldn't want near your children.

If working with war criminals is required to save the world, then would working with Trump/Biden be worth saving the world? Doesn’t them being willing to work with you concern you? What about your stance would entice them?

What is worse rape and fraud of a few or war crimes against millions? Isn’t it sad that this is even a question?

I'm not sure I completely understand the question.

I agree with you that war criminals aren't going to change. They're still criminals. It would be lovely if they were prosecuted, but we know they won't be. Only the war criminals on the losing side get hanged. The war criminals on the winning side have boulevards named after them.

So, if they can be channeled into doing some good work, why not? Now, if it meant the difference between getting them punished or not punished, I would have reservations. But we know that won't happen. No matter what, these guys aren't going to get their just desserts.

Charlie Manson Parable

Dick Cheney being able to help save America from another round of Trumpitis is not going to bring back the 100,000 innocent Iraqis that were slaughtered as a result of Bush's War. On the other hand, it's not going to hurt them, either. It's a positive action that isn't going to tip the scales of justice for past crimes in either direction.

Modified a bit to shorten it. I excluded the Charlie Manson story, but I will briefly address that. Yes, Manson did not receive any financial benefits from writing the song. However, he was paid with publicity/infamy. Something that does have value and glamorizes people like him.

War criminals can't really make amends. I mean regular Joe Schmoe goes to jail for attempted murder, and most likely gets life if they are successful in doing the killing. But 100,000 innocents is something we can make amends for? No, like my post before in reply to mookie, they should be condemning and shunning war criminals.

I am only saying that most people are arguing the immoral character of Trump, all the while accepting the immoral from those they like. For instance, a lot claim Trump's racism as a reason to not vote for him. But Harris claimed Biden was a racist in the 2020 debates, then she worked with him and praised him.

So, my question may have not been asked well and my comment may have unraveled a bit. But my intent was that I think it would be more valuable if they stood their ground on the things they believed were immoral, rather than welcoming them into the fold. I am just trying to wrap my head around the hate for Trump based on his morals, but the lack of hate for those who have the same morals but agree in other areas.

Maybe that was still unclear.

so regarding the part I enlarged:
People will MOSTLY find reason to agree with someone or a group, find all and any way(s) to do so. The Same/Opposite for those they oppose: They can do NOTHING right, no matter what.

As far as war crimes, the Nuremberg Trials is the best example of how to handle that issue. I assume similar trials were held for Japanese war criminals and crimes. I am not aware of anything close to that for Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, or other despots who did and led war crimes. I D K if this was done for Serbians and Balkans conflicts or those in the Hutu massacre of Tutsi in Rwanda. Perhaps it was and did not draw much attention..??

[Pack Rat]

Sorry there are a lot of posts. I didn't see this one yet.

"Heroes" is a bit of an overstatement, but if they can do something good for the world, it will be one small step towards making amends for their war crimes.

Churchill had to work with Stalin. Sometimes, saving the world requires working with people you wouldn't want near your children.

If working with war criminals is required to save the world, then would working with Trump/Biden be worth saving the world? Doesn’t them being willing to work with you concern you? What about your stance would entice them?

What is worse rape and fraud of a few or war crimes against millions? Isn’t it sad that this is even a question?

I'm not sure I completely understand the question.

I agree with you that war criminals aren't going to change. They're still criminals. It would be lovely if they were prosecuted, but we know they won't be. Only the war criminals on the losing side get hanged. The war criminals on the winning side have boulevards named after them.

So, if they can be channeled into doing some good work, why not? Now, if it meant the difference between getting them punished or not punished, I would have reservations. But we know that won't happen. No matter what, these guys aren't going to get their just desserts.

Charlie Manson Parable

Dick Cheney being able to help save America from another round of Trumpitis is not going to bring back the 100,000 innocent Iraqis that were slaughtered as a result of Bush's War. On the other hand, it's not going to hurt them, either. It's a positive action that isn't going to tip the scales of justice for past crimes in either direction.

Modified a bit to shorten it. I excluded the Charlie Manson story, but I will briefly address that. Yes, Manson did not receive any financial benefits from writing the song. However, he was paid with publicity/infamy. Something that does have value and glamorizes people like him.

War criminals can't really make amends. I mean regular Joe Schmoe goes to jail for attempted murder, and most likely gets life if they are successful in doing the killing. But 100,000 innocents is something we can make amends for? No, like my post before in reply to mookie, they should be condemning and shunning war criminals.

I am only saying that most people are arguing the immoral character of Trump, all the while accepting the immoral from those they like. For instance, a lot claim Trump's racism as a reason to not vote for him. But Harris claimed Biden was a racist in the 2020 debates, then she worked with him and praised him.

So, my question may have not been asked well and my comment may have unraveled a bit. But my intent was that I think it would be more valuable if they stood their ground on the things they believed were immoral, rather than welcoming them into the fold. I am just trying to wrap my head around the hate for Trump based on his morals, but the lack of hate for those who have the same morals but agree in other areas.

Maybe that was still unclear.

I call bullshit!

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9244041620

Trump is immoral and a racist. Anymore "whatabout" this and that from you? Shall we have a contest about Trump and Harris lies and incoherent speeches. Trump proved how unhinged and incoherent he is. Harris knew what buttons to push and boy did Trump looked ridiculous.

Haitians eating dogs and cats in Ohio...really funny sh!t.

[kentington]

I am only saying that most people are arguing the immoral character of Trump, all the while accepting the immoral from those they like. For instance, a lot claim Trump's racism as a reason to not vote for him. But Harris claimed Biden was a racist in the 2020 debates, then she worked with him and praised him.

I call bullshit!

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-9244041620

Trump is immoral and a racist. Anymore "whatabout" this and that from you? Shall we have a contest about Trump and Harris lies and incoherent speeches. Trump proved how unhinged and incoherent he is. Harris knew what buttons to push and boy did Trump looked ridiculous.

Haitians eating dogs and cats in Ohio...really funny sh!t.

Good call. Sorry about that. Here is the video I watched:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDBeoXQIX4c

I am human and I didn't hear the first part. I watched the video while working a couple of times, but I was a little bit distracted. I am not trying to pull a fast one as I have been trying to put all of my sources there.

She did say: "Um, I do not believe you are a racist"

My other points stand. I would also argue that she said she doesn't believe he is a racist, but then describes actions that are racist and affected her personally.

As far as Trump being immoral and racist, you get no argument from me. Again, and I will say it a million times, they are all crappy people in politics.

[HitRed]

Trump brought up the rising of Mexico. Nearshoring.

[Votanic]

Surely if Trump never concedes he lost in 2020, he can't run for a third term?

Jonesy wins the thread llama?

LOL, yes - yes he does.

Then he still deserves his second term. Jones = FAIL.

[Votanic]

I am only saying that most people are arguing the immoral character of Trump, all the while accepting the immoral from those they like. For instance, a lot claim Trump's racism as a reason to not vote for him. But Harris claimed Biden was a racist in the 2020 debates, then she worked with him and praised him.

I call bullshit!

I call bullshit on pissrat's bullshit.
...or at least ken is pointing out much better bullshit. Shiftless, changeable, pandering, hypocritical, career-opportunist Kamala bullshit.

Pissrat's bullshit claim is just his usual kneejerk,Trump-hatred.

[jusplay4fun]

I am only saying that most people are arguing the immoral character of Trump, all the while accepting the immoral from those they like. For instance, a lot claim Trump's racism as a reason to not vote for him. But Harris claimed Biden was a racist in the 2020 debates, then she worked with him and praised him.

I call bullshit!

I call bullshit on pissrat's bullshit.
...or at least ken is pointing out much better bullshit. Shiftless, changeable, pandering, hypocritical, career-opportunist Kamala bullshit.

Pissrat's bullshit claim is just his usual kneejerk,Trump-hatred.

Typical p-rat; nothing new here. NO surprises.

[jusplay4fun]

For me, the election is still close and will likely come down to some 10,000 to 50,000** (currently undecided) voters in some 6 battleground states.

** that number may now be down to about 20,000, especially now that Taylor Swift has "spoken" on this matter.

[Pack Rat]

Too funny! Not after that debate:

[Votanic]

Too many pets (pet food?) in America anyway.
...and for Gawdsake, stop calling them furbabies!
It just makes your mental illness (brought on by anti-biological barrenness) all too apparent!

[jusplay4fun]

Harris Is Still Struggling to Blunt Trump’s Edge on the Economy

WASHINGTON—Some allies of Kamala Harris worry that the Democratic nominee has yet to seal the deal with voters as the presidential candidate who can best manage the economy, a task they say is crucial to building a durable lead in the battleground states.

The vice president has in short order lifted her party to a tie or slight advantage in opinion polls, and she delivered a strong performance against Donald Trump in their combative debate Tuesday. But Democratic and anti-Trump strategists say she also missed a chance to connect with voters over her economic plans and to chip away at Trump’s reputation for fostering a historically strong pre-Covid economy while he was president, which remains his most formidable asset as the Republican candidate.

“That is where Harris still has some work to do, which is to drive home the economic message, because she’s part of this administration that has lost credibility on economic issues,” said Evan Roth Smith, lead pollster at Blueprint, a Democratic polling initiative.

Despite releasing proposals to help consumers, parents, new home buyers and small businesses, Smith said, Harris hadn’t yet made her ideas credible enough to undecided voters, who “have real concerns in their life that aren’t being met by political leaders. That remains the No. 1 task for her campaign.”

Mike Murphy, a veteran Republican strategist who opposes Trump, agreed. “That’s the needle she’s got to move,” he said. “And she’s got to start working on it, because she didn’t really do it in the debate.”

Democrats hope that a recent run of good economic news could give them a boost. Reports this week that inflation continues to cool and that household incomes had risen to about pre-Covid levels could help Harris answer a question from moderators that she ducked at the debate: Are Americans better off than they were four years ago?

Polling shows that voters remain agitated about inflation, and that they see Trump as the better bet for taming prices. In Wall Street Journal polling late last month, 38% of voters said the cost of living was still rising and causing major strains for their families, a record high dating to late 2021. Trump was winning 71% of those voters. An additional 26% said rising costs were causing them minor financial strains.

Voters still up for grabs and available to either campaign were more likely than voters overall to say the economy and inflation were their top concerns. Reflecting on the overall economy, voters in the Journal poll said Trump would be a better economic manager than Harris by 8 points, a lead that stood at a lopsided 43 points among up-for-grabs voters.

James Carville, the longtime Democratic strategist, said the Federal Reserve’s likely decision next week to cut interest rates could help improve the public mood. Even if Harris can’t persuade Americans to feel good about the economy, he said, an interest-rate cut and other good economic news could help her argue that voters are making gains, and that those gains are at risk if Trump is elected.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... 28f0&ei=11

[Pack Rat]

Cut and paste Queen of the forums!

After the severe beating that Trump received, he is now running away from anymore debates with Harris.


It's apparent...he is too old and mentally unfit for the daily demands of the highest office. His side kick VD Vance is well...weird.

[Votanic]

Cut and paste Queen of the forums!

After the severe beating that Trump received, he is now running away from anymore debates with Harris.

Pee-rat, if you actually came around here to play risk-games, instead of just troll, you wouldn't such an ignorant cuss.

Everybody knows it's the loser that is eager for a rematch.
The loser wants its points back, ...and is also desperate to try to regain lost prestige.

[Pack Rat]

Cut and paste Queen of the forums!

After the severe beating that Trump received, he is now running away from anymore debates with Harris.

Pee-rat, if you actually came around here to play risk-games, instead of just troll, you wouldn't such an ignorant cuss.

Everybody knows it's the loser that is eager for a rematch.
The loser wants its points back, ...and is also desperate to try to regain lost prestige.

....said the Fox News echo chamber.

As far as my Risk Games are concerned my little wall paper hangar corporal...I play a lot of games on a daily basis.

You really try to hard to sound witty and you just come off as some goofy geek. Now hurry up and make Saxi his sandwich and while your at it, pick up Ralf's Giorgio Armani suit at Baker Street Dry Cleaners and Tailors.

[mookiemcgee]

It's been pretty interesting watching MAGA have a civil war around Laura Loomer the last few days... I wonder if there is anything trump could do to lose the support of fundamentalist christians? Obvs they won't vote Kamala, but is openly cheating on your wife just months before election night enough to justify staying home on election day?



P.S. this is not directed at fundamentalist christians who are actively getting directions from god via voices in their heads

Extra P.S. my fav tweet this week was when Laura Loomer compared Marjorie Taylor Green's lady parts to an Arby's sandwich

[HitRed]

I haven’t seen a fundamentalist Christian in chat ever.