ViperOverLord wrote:With the exception of Blink's last post I only see personal attacks against the Pope and no discussion about whether the Pope's POV was correct or whether or not the news site was being fair. I think ya'll should be more respectful of OP's and not go on your individual witch hunts. I'm not saying we don't all stray from time to time but f*ck man. Create a dialogue instead of being political hacks.
Not to be hypocritical I'll discuss the OP. I do think the article is extreme. The writer accuses the Pope of libel for merely stating his belief that turning away from God leads to destruction. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the message of essentially every major religion? So for the writer to make that attack is disrespectful to those in his audience who are Catholic. One should not have to have their leader verbally assaulted in such a scurrilous manner when it regards the fundamental make-up of the church. The editor may as well of entitled the article 'Catholicism is complete BS' if he's going to allow for claims like that in his/her publication.
If somebody says that I am akin to a Nazi I will call them an asshole. The Pope said atheists are akin to Nazis. Therefore, I am calling the Pope an asshole.
Good job on completely taking him out of context. He talked about "a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society" and that "denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews." And he called it "atheism extremism" and not merely "atheism."
So unless you are all three of:
a. atheist b. wish to eradicate religious rights c. want to deny rights/humanity to an ethnic group;
then he was not referring to you.
Reading and comprehension is our friend.
let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny
This doesn't sound like he is only talking about atheists that wish to eradicate human and religious rights to me. Not only is he saying that a community without God is one that fails to recognize human rights (truncated vision of man implies that, so don't say I'm attributing something to him that he didn't say), he also implies that without God there can be no virtue. Now, as you said, there are a lot of people that feel that way. I also think that a lot of people are assholes. There's a good deal of overlap.
Gypsys Kiss wrote:How about...'I dont give a fucking shit'
QFT
Who really care what one old man has to say?
Yeah, man! Forget all those world leaders! Forget the Dalai Lama! They're all old geezers.
How about: Forget all those world leaders who are fucking douche bags?
What the f*ck did this man ever contribute to the betterment of society except to entrench a dwindling ( Thank god...) portion of the masses to a bigoted, narrow minded and utterly destructive dogma?
Do you know how many people die of Aids in Africa every fucking day because this old shit won't reverse the stance on birth control? "Better they loose their lives, then loose their souls." Or how many children's lives have been ruined by the church's stance of the pedophile actions of some of it's priests?
Putting this man on a pedestal and taking moral directional cues from him is like digging up Hitler and having him teach social ethics. The pope has NO credibility tasking anyone to uphold what is good and right when the catholic church is being run this way.
Ah yes, the fucking rants of the fucking promoters, who think that all problems can be solved simply by safer fucking.
The Pope believes that the wide distribution of condoms would only lead to greater sexual activity which in turn would only aggrivate the problem.
Here is an article in the Washington Post by Edward C. Green on Sunday, March 29, 2009, ''The Pope May Be Right."
In 2003, Norman Hearst and Sanny Chen of the University of California conducted a condom effectiveness study for the United Nations' AIDS program and found no evidence of condoms working as a primary HIV-prevention measure in Africa. UNAIDS quietly disowned the study. (The authors eventually managed to publish their findings in the quarterly Studies in Family Planning.) Since then, major articles in other peer-reviewed journals such as the Lancet, Science and BMJ have confirmed that condoms have not worked as a primary intervention in the population-wide epidemics of Africa. In a 2008 article in Science called "Reassessing HIV Prevention" 10 AIDS experts concluded that "consistent condom use has not reached a sufficiently high level, even after many years of widespread and often aggressive promotion, to produce a measurable slowing of new infections in the generalized epidemics of Sub-Saharan Africa."
But, let's not get bogged down by studies and facts when we can fucking rant about those who are against free fucking.
Yeah, because abstinence has worked so well in any society since the dawn of fucking time. You cant prevent copulation. Pull your head out of your ass. The pope knows as much about preventing people fucking as you do promoting racial harmony.
Are you serious? Truly? How the hell can you logically take this position.
The catholic church has a very impressive presence in Africa. This network and position in that society is in a prime position to help stem the spread of aids though education and promoting safe sex.
If condoms have not been effective AS they have in western society it's because of: 1) Availability 2) inconsistent or improper usage, do to a lack of education on the topic. (reusing being a huge issue) education that the catholic church is in a position to provide. 3) Bullshit Catholic Propaganda spewing lies and urging it's parishioners not to endanger their souls.
Do you truly believe that condom use has nothing to do to retard the spread of aids?
"Free Fucking" Where the f*ck do you come up with this tripe? We're you born in the fucking 50's? What do you think a poor and mostly illiterate population does for shits and giggles?
You are so wrapped up in your tight assed western conservative bigoted lifestyle, that the only pleasure I imagine you can still feel is spewing your skewed perspective on forums to spread your hate.
ViperOverLord wrote:With the exception of Blink's last post I only see personal attacks against the Pope and no discussion about whether the Pope's POV was correct or whether or not the news site was being fair. I think ya'll should be more respectful of OP's and not go on your individual witch hunts. I'm not saying we don't all stray from time to time but f*ck man. Create a dialogue instead of being political hacks.
Not to be hypocritical I'll discuss the OP. I do think the article is extreme. The writer accuses the Pope of libel for merely stating his belief that turning away from God leads to destruction. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the message of essentially every major religion? So for the writer to make that attack is disrespectful to those in his audience who are Catholic. One should not have to have their leader verbally assaulted in such a scurrilous manner when it regards the fundamental make-up of the church. The editor may as well of entitled the article 'Catholicism is complete BS' if he's going to allow for claims like that in his/her publication.
If somebody says that I am akin to a Nazi I will call them an asshole. The Pope said atheists are akin to Nazis. Therefore, I am calling the Pope an asshole.
Good job on completely taking him out of context. He talked about "a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society" and that "denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews." And he called it "atheism extremism" and not merely "atheism."
So unless you are all three of:
a. atheist b. wish to eradicate religious rights c. want to deny rights/humanity to an ethnic group;
then he was not referring to you.
Reading and comprehension is our friend.
let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny
This doesn't sound like he is only talking about atheists that wish to eradicate human and religious rights to me. Not only is he saying that a community without God is one that fails to recognize human rights (truncated vision of man implies that, so don't say I'm attributing something to him that he didn't say), he also implies that without God there can be no virtue. Now, as you said, there are a lot of people that feel that way. I also think that a lot of people are assholes. There's a good deal of overlap.
That's not what he said and you know it. If you think that though, feel free to use a little thing we like to call supporting examples to make your case.
ViperOverLord wrote:feel free to use a little thing we like to call supporting examples to make your case.
Careful. That's exactly the kind of thing a condescending twat would say. You wouldn't want anyone confusing you with a condescending twat, now would you?
ViperOverLord wrote:feel free to use a little thing we like to call supporting examples to make your case.
Careful. That's exactly the kind of thing a condescending twat would say. You wouldn't want anyone confusing you with a condescending twat, now would you?
If that someone is you then I don't mind. But let clarify that it's not at all a matter of condescension. That's just solid advice on how to create a logical and profound argument.
Agreed...in a little tone we like to call, condescension.
Now please, either apologize to the user known as Frigidus, or report yourself to the valued mods for doing an online impression of a condescending twat.
I don't really see why any of this matters. I most closely relate to the agnostic group right now, but I couldn't care less of the Pope compared me to a Nazi.
I personally do not see how any person can put any stock in what the pope says. He is a man, nothing more. And as others have said, he protects child molesters and forbids the use of birth control. I live in Texas, and I can safely say that catholics using birth control would be a wonderful thing. I have nothing against Mexicans or Hispanics in general, but the US and the world in general is facing a population overload. When people in this day and age continue to have 4 or 5 or more kids because of the fact that they cannot use birth control, it is a problem. On top of all this, the catholic church is a horrible institution. They are responsible for so many deaths. They are responsible for the crusades. They are responsible for mass witch hunts. They are responsible for killing off communities of heretics, such as in the Albigensian Crusade. While in the bible it actually says that it is easier to thread the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, the catholic church is and always has been associated with money and land. In the dark ages, kings and princes would cede land to the church to get the favor of the pope. What hypocisy. Besides, doesn't everybody know that god never intended for the pope to be a man. The pope was supposed to be a rabbit. That way when people asked him what they should tell people about how to run their lives he would say nothing. South Park, anyone?
Johnny Rockets wrote:Yeah, because abstinence has worked so well in any society since the dawn of fucking time. You cant prevent copulation. Pull your head out of your ass. The pope knows as much about preventing people fucking as you do promoting racial harmony.
"Racial Harmony?" That's easy. You start out with a Bb Seventh Chord and ... oh sorry that's the Barbershopper in me.
Did you know, one of the reasons why the Middle East loves to call us the "Great Satan" was that they thought Jazz was sinfull?
I'm afraid I'm not the one with the head up their ass. The notion that condoms would work if only done right has not been supported by facts.
Oh I dunno........300 years of gunboat diplomacy backing up manifest destiny perhaps?
And on the whole condom thing:
From this link :http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/4025/1/Do-Condoms-Work-The-Truth-About-Condom-Effectiveness.html Studies have shown that if a latex condom is used correctly and consistently (every time you have sex), they are a highly effective barrier against infection. This has been demonstrated most clearly by studies of "discordant" couples in Europe. A "discordant" couple is one in which one partner in infected with HIV and the other one is not. In a study of 123 couples in which condoms were used consistently, none of the infected partners became infected.
Oh......hold on......I think a few others may have looked into this 20th century plague. Here's a few more research studies on condom effectiveness against S.T.D.'s including Aids and HIV.
Ahmed S, Lutalo T, Wawer M, Serwadda D, Sewankambo NK, Nalugoda F, et al. HIV incidence and sexually transmitted disease prevalence associated with condom use: a population study in Rakai, Uganda. AIDS. 2001 Nov 9;15(16):2171-9.
Alfonsi GA, Shlay J. The effectiveness of condoms for the prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. Curr Wom Health Reviews. 2005;1:151-9.
Bleeker MCG, Hogewoning CJA, Voorhorst FJ, et al. Condom use promotes regression of human papillomavirus-associated penile lesions in male sexual partners of women with cervical intraepithelial neoplasia. Int J Cancer 2003;107:804–10.
Carey RF, Lytle CD, Cyr WH. Implications of laboratory tests of condom integrity. Sex Transm Dis 1999;26:216-220.
Carey RF, Herman WA, Retta SM, et al. Effectiveness of latex condoms as a barrier to human immunodeficiency virus-sized particles under conditions of simulated use. Sex Transm Dis 1992;19:230-4.
Casper C, Wald A. Condom use and the prevention of genital herpes acquisition. Herpes 2002; 9:10-4.
Conant MA, Spicer DW, Smith CD. Herpes simplex virus transmission: condom studies. Sex Transm Dis 1984;11:94-5.
Crosby R, DiClemente RJ, Holtgrave DR, Wingood GM. Design, measurement, and analytical considerations for testing hypotheses relative to condom effectiveness against non-viral STIs. Sex Transm Inf 2002;78:228-31.
Devine OJ, Aral SO. The impact of inaccurate reporting of condom use and imperfect diagnosis of sexually transmitted disease infection in studies of condom effectiveness: a simulation-based assessment. Sex Transm Dis 2004;31:588-95.
Gallo MF, Steiner MJ, Warner L, et al. Self-Reported Condom Use is Associated With Reduced Risk of Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, and Trichomoniasis. Sex Transm Dis 2007;34:829-833.
Hogenwoning CJA, Bleeker MCG, van den Brule AJC, et al. Condom use promotes regression of cervical intraepithelial neoplasia and clearance of human papillomavirus: a randomized clinical trial. Int J Cancer 2003;107:811–6.
Holmes KK, Levine R, Weaver M. Effectiveness of condom in preventing sexually transmitted infections. Bull WHO 2004; 84:454-461
Lytle CD, Routson LB, Seaborn GB, et al. An in vitro evaluation of condoms as barriers to a small virus. Sex Transm Dis 1997;24:161-164.
Manhart LE, Koutsky LA. Do condoms prevent genital HPV infection, external genital warts, or cervical neoplasia? A meta-analysis. Sex Transm Dis 2002; 29:725-35.
Niccolai L., Rowhani-Rahbar A, Jenkins H, et al. Condom effectiveness for prevention of Chlamydia trachomatis infection. Sex Transm Inf 2005;81:323-5.
Paz-Bailey G, Koumans EH, Sternberg M, Pierce A, Papp J, Unger ER, Sawyer M, Black CM, Markowitz LE. The effect of correct and consistent condom use on chlamydial and gonococcal infection among urban adolescents. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2005;159(6):536-42.
Pinkerton SD, Abramson PR. Effectiveness of condoms in preventing HIV transmission. Soc Sci Med 1997;44:1303-1312.
Rietmeijer CA, Krebs JW, Feorina PM, et al. Condoms as physical and chemical barriers against human immunodeficiency virus. JAMA 1988;259:1851-1853.
Saifuddin A, Lutaloa T, Wawerb M, et al. HIV Incidence and Sexually Transmitted Disease Prevalence Associated with Condom Use: A Population Study in Rakai, Uganda. AIDS 2001;15:2171-2179.
Van de Perre P, Jacobs D, Sprecher-Goldberger S. The latex condom, an efficient barrier against sexual transmission of AIDS-related viruses. AIDS 1987; 1:49-52.
Wald A, Langenberg AG, Link K, Izu AE, Ashley R, Warren T, Tyring S, Douglas JM Jr, Corey L. Effect of condoms on reducing the transmission of herpes simplex virus type 2 from men to women. JAMA. 2001 Jun 27;285(24):3100-6.
Wald A, Langerberg AGM, Krantz E, et al. The relationship between condom use and herpes simplex virus acquisition. Ann Intern Med 2005;143:707–13. Warner L, Clay-
Warner J, Boles J, Williamson J. Assessing condom use practices. Implications for evaluating method and user effectiveness. Sex Transm Dis 1998; 25:273-7.
Warner L, Newman DR, Austin HD, et al. Condom effectiveness for reducing transmission of gonorrhea and chlamydia: the importance of assessing partner infection status. Am J Epidemiol 2004;159:242-51.
Warner L, Macaluso M, Austin HD, et al. Application of the case-crossover design to reduce unmeasured confounding in studies of condom effectiveness. Am J Epidemiol 2005;161:765-73.
Warner L, Stone KM, Macaluso M, et al. A systematic review of design factors assessed in epidemiologic studies of condom effectiveness for preventing gonorrhea and chlamydia. Sex Transm Dis 2006;33:36-51.
Weller SC, Davis-Beaty K. Condom effectiveness in reducing heterosexual HIV transmission. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2001, Issue 3. Art. No.: CD003255. DOI: 10.1002/14651858.CD003255
Winer R, Hughes JP, Feng Q, et al. Consistent condom use from time of first vaginal intercourse and the risk of genital human papillomavirus infection in young women. N Engl J Med 2006: 354;2645-2654.
Now hold on there Rockets! Non of this research has been done by a Washington Post reporter, or even a representative of Fox News!
Go wash your hair, Tzor. It smells like shit.
And save your trolling superpowers for topics that at least have a defensible position.
Johnny Rockets wrote:Why does Arabia call You the "Great Satan" ??
Oh I dunno........300 years of gunboat diplomacy backing up manifest destiny perhaps?
And on the whole condom thing:
From this link :http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/4025/1/Do-Condoms-Work-The-Truth-About-Condom-Effectiveness.html Studies have shown that if a latex condom is used correctly and consistently (every time you have sex), they are a highly effective barrier against infection. This has been demonstrated most clearly by studies of "discordant" couples in Europe. A "discordant" couple is one in which one partner in infected with HIV and the other one is not. In a study of 123 couples in which condoms were used consistently, none of the infected partners became infected.
Oh......hold on......I think a few others may have looked into this 20th century plague. Here's a few more research studies on condom effectiveness against S.T.D.'s including Aids and HIV.
Ahmed S, Lutalo T, Wawer M, Serwadda D, Sewankambo NK, Nalugoda F, et al. HIV incidence and sexually transmitted disease prevalence associated with condom use: a population study in Rakai, Uganda. AIDS. 2001 Nov 9;15(16):2171-9.
Alfonsi GA, Shlay J. The effectiveness of condoms for the prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. Curr Wom Health Reviews. 2005;1:151-9.
Bleeker MCG, Hogewoning CJA, Voorhorst FJ, et al. Condom use promotes regression of human papillomavirus-associated penile lesions in male sexual partners of women with cervical intraepithelial neoplasia. Int J Cancer 2003;107:804–10.
Carey RF, Lytle CD, Cyr WH. Implications of laboratory tests of condom integrity. Sex Transm Dis 1999;26:216-220.
Carey RF, Herman WA, Retta SM, et al. Effectiveness of latex condoms as a barrier to human immunodeficiency virus-sized particles under conditions of simulated use. Sex Transm Dis 1992;19:230-4.
Casper C, Wald A. Condom use and the prevention of genital herpes acquisition. Herpes 2002; 9:10-4.
Conant MA, Spicer DW, Smith CD. Herpes simplex virus transmission: condom studies. Sex Transm Dis 1984;11:94-5.
Crosby R, DiClemente RJ, Holtgrave DR, Wingood GM. Design, measurement, and analytical considerations for testing hypotheses relative to condom effectiveness against non-viral STIs. Sex Transm Inf 2002;78:228-31.
Devine OJ, Aral SO. The impact of inaccurate reporting of condom use and imperfect diagnosis of sexually transmitted disease infection in studies of condom effectiveness: a simulation-based assessment. Sex Transm Dis 2004;31:588-95.
Gallo MF, Steiner MJ, Warner L, et al. Self-Reported Condom Use is Associated With Reduced Risk of Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, and Trichomoniasis. Sex Transm Dis 2007;34:829-833.
Hogenwoning CJA, Bleeker MCG, van den Brule AJC, et al. Condom use promotes regression of cervical intraepithelial neoplasia and clearance of human papillomavirus: a randomized clinical trial. Int J Cancer 2003;107:811–6.
Holmes KK, Levine R, Weaver M. Effectiveness of condom in preventing sexually transmitted infections. Bull WHO 2004; 84:454-461
Lytle CD, Routson LB, Seaborn GB, et al. An in vitro evaluation of condoms as barriers to a small virus. Sex Transm Dis 1997;24:161-164.
Manhart LE, Koutsky LA. Do condoms prevent genital HPV infection, external genital warts, or cervical neoplasia? A meta-analysis. Sex Transm Dis 2002; 29:725-35.
Niccolai L., Rowhani-Rahbar A, Jenkins H, et al. Condom effectiveness for prevention of Chlamydia trachomatis infection. Sex Transm Inf 2005;81:323-5.
Paz-Bailey G, Koumans EH, Sternberg M, Pierce A, Papp J, Unger ER, Sawyer M, Black CM, Markowitz LE. The effect of correct and consistent condom use on chlamydial and gonococcal infection among urban adolescents. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2005;159(6):536-42.
Pinkerton SD, Abramson PR. Effectiveness of condoms in preventing HIV transmission. Soc Sci Med 1997;44:1303-1312.
Rietmeijer CA, Krebs JW, Feorina PM, et al. Condoms as physical and chemical barriers against human immunodeficiency virus. JAMA 1988;259:1851-1853.
Saifuddin A, Lutaloa T, Wawerb M, et al. HIV Incidence and Sexually Transmitted Disease Prevalence Associated with Condom Use: A Population Study in Rakai, Uganda. AIDS 2001;15:2171-2179.
Van de Perre P, Jacobs D, Sprecher-Goldberger S. The latex condom, an efficient barrier against sexual transmission of AIDS-related viruses. AIDS 1987; 1:49-52.
Wald A, Langenberg AG, Link K, Izu AE, Ashley R, Warren T, Tyring S, Douglas JM Jr, Corey L. Effect of condoms on reducing the transmission of herpes simplex virus type 2 from men to women. JAMA. 2001 Jun 27;285(24):3100-6.
Wald A, Langerberg AGM, Krantz E, et al. The relationship between condom use and herpes simplex virus acquisition. Ann Intern Med 2005;143:707–13. Warner L, Clay-
Warner J, Boles J, Williamson J. Assessing condom use practices. Implications for evaluating method and user effectiveness. Sex Transm Dis 1998; 25:273-7.
Warner L, Newman DR, Austin HD, et al. Condom effectiveness for reducing transmission of gonorrhea and chlamydia: the importance of assessing partner infection status. Am J Epidemiol 2004;159:242-51.
Warner L, Macaluso M, Austin HD, et al. Application of the case-crossover design to reduce unmeasured confounding in studies of condom effectiveness. Am J Epidemiol 2005;161:765-73.
Warner L, Stone KM, Macaluso M, et al. A systematic review of design factors assessed in epidemiologic studies of condom effectiveness for preventing gonorrhea and chlamydia. Sex Transm Dis 2006;33:36-51.
Weller SC, Davis-Beaty K. Condom effectiveness in reducing heterosexual HIV transmission. Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 2001, Issue 3. Art. No.: CD003255. DOI: 10.1002/14651858.CD003255
Winer R, Hughes JP, Feng Q, et al. Consistent condom use from time of first vaginal intercourse and the risk of genital human papillomavirus infection in young women. N Engl J Med 2006: 354;2645-2654.
Now hold on there Rockets! Non of this research has been done by a Washington Post reporter, or even a representative of Fox News!
Go wash your hair, Tzor. It smells like shit.
And save your trolling superpowers for topics that at least have a defensible position.
Johnny Rockets
Perhaps the best counter post Ive seen...well, except it was against tzor.
Little like noob farming, but still an impressive win rate, nonetheless
I'm Spanking Monkey now....err...I mean I'm a Spanking Monkey now...that shoots milk Too much. I know.
tzor wrote:The notion that condoms would work if only done right has not been supported by facts.
This has got to be one of the stupidest things you've ever said, and you say a lot of stupid things.
To be fair, condoms can fail frequently so for some there is reason to fear....it usually happens with those with really small penises. If they buy the wrong condom, there is an increased risk of danger. It is very possible he has evidence to support his statement. I myself dont want to see it if he does however.
I'm Spanking Monkey now....err...I mean I'm a Spanking Monkey now...that shoots milk Too much. I know.
Army of GOD wrote:I don't really see why any of this matters. I most closely relate to the agnostic group right now, but I couldn't care less of the Pope compared me to a Nazi.
Well I'm a Nazi, and I'm offended that he implied we're atheists!
I saw a little standup comedy by Doug Stanhope yeasterday, who was amazed that folks were offended or alarmed that the Pope used to be a Nazi. His line went somthing like:
If you put the catholic church's and the Nazi's statistics side by side with catagories on opression, genocide, starting wars and dying in the name of: "" , you should then be more alarmed if your Nazi was catholic.
This whole thing seems very judgmental of Benny the pope to me. He is obviously judging the Brits as being nazis. The weird thing is I understood that the catholic church supported the nazis during WWII, or at the very least turned a blind eye to many of the atrocities committed, especially if they were committed against the Jews.
EDIT: I think the catholic church's reason for slamming atheists is because they are bad for business. Atheists are kind of like dissatisfied customers spreading the word that they received bad service from the giant conglomerate super company.
Last edited by notyou2 on Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
