Medieval Oligarchy - end of my mapping

[Industrial Helix]

I think its looking a little congested. Maybe merge and eliminate a few places that are redundant?

The rules are a little complex as well... all these pluses and minuses make it hard to figure out the gameplay.

[theBastard]

All in all, looks like a great project with lots of potential, but there are a few things that do kind of bother me.

thanks. all advices are welcome

First of all, it's extremely monotonic and not easy pleasing, although I think this will be worked out Graphics forge. I also think that the castles and towns should look much different (perhaps even different colours) so you would be able to effortlessly notice each one of them separately as right now it takes some time to understand which is which.

I did it so "monotic" because I want so. I saw some medieval maps with such look and I like it. yes, at the first look the castles and towns look the same, but after second look it is clear which is which, I think. but different colours could help, I agree...

Also, you might want to emphasize a bit stronger on the differences between King's, Oligarchs and ordinary lands - you can easily read them, but it would look better if the whole land would be of different colour, IMO.

the Royal land is clear, I think. it needs any work with Oligarchs land. I can not have the next map full of colours.

Gameplay question: How many neutrals are there going to be? Is this going to be a conquest map (people start in castles and expand) or if this is going to be more so like the regular map which has bonuses, which are neutral? Your answer should determine a lot about the gameplay.

not exactly conquest map. each player will start with his castle and two towns. I think that because there are negative bonuses, there are negative dices and the bonuses are not hard it will not be "deployement" map (so players will only wait and deploy units - what I hate).

I also thought about different bonus system:
autodeploys will be as now.
Royal Castle with its region +2
Royal Castle withuot its region -1
Oligarchs Castle without its region -1
Oligarchs Castle with its region + next two ruled Towns with their regions +2
two ruled Towns with their regions +1

[theBastard]

I think its looking a little congested. Maybe merge and eliminate a few places that are redundant?

what exactly you mean? the playable area or nonplayable? if playable it is impossible to reduce it - as you look at my very first version, you can see that I reduced regions.

The rules are a little complex as well... all these pluses and minuses make it hard to figure out the gameplay.

hm, than there will be only minuses

[natty dread]

Too much overlapping text... makes me dizzy. Other than that, nice.

[Jatekos]

Unfortunately I don't have time to compare each region name with the original maps now, but I have a couple of quick notes:
- I would much more like to see the names as they are written originally in Hungarian, and not in an English format. E.g. "Csongrád", instead of "Csongrad". There are other maps using non-English letters, and this could make the map more unique.
- On the East, there is a region called "Kiralyfold". I am not sure how it is written in the original maps, but it literally means King's land in Hungarian. This area could have not belonged to the King's authority, but it is still a bit strange that some other regions are "Royal lands", but this is not. Is there another name that you could use for this region?
- A note related to history: At that time, all areas were under someone's authority. If they were not owned by the King, then they belonged to an Oligarch. This means that from a historical perspective all regions should be marked with stripes.

[theBastard]

Too much overlapping text... makes me dizzy. Other than that, nice.

thanks natty. so you also like icons for castles and towns?

here are two more versions:
reduced ocerlapping text and added shields from Hungary´s history.

Click image to enlarge.

with reduced overlapping text

Click image to enlarge.

[theBastard]

Unfortunately I don't have time to compare each region name with the original maps now, but I have a couple of quick notes:

take your time. it is long way to go to next stage

- I would much more like to see the names as they are written originally in Hungarian, and not in an English format. E.g. "Csongrád", instead of "Csongrad". There are other maps using non-English letters, and this could make the map more unique.

the font which I used has not these ´ˇ but it is only graphics problem. I agree with you, so later I will anyway to resolve this thing...

- On the East, there is a region called "Kiralyfold". I am not sure how it is written in the original maps, but it literally means King's land in Hungarian. This area could have not belonged to the King's authority, but it is still a bit strange that some other regions are "Royal lands", but this is not. Is there another name that you could use for this region?

I found it in map posted by you and also in some my maps. I´m sure there could be another name when is needed.

- A note related to history: At that time, all areas were under someone's authority. If they were not owned by the King, then they belonged to an Oligarch. This means that from a historical perspective all regions should be marked with stripes.

yes. but maybe I wrote bad what I thought. these regions with stripes are bases of Oligarchs power and therefore they have negative dice...
except Royal Castles and Castles of lesser Oligarchs will be all settlements starting positions - so de facto each will be under someone´s authority.

[Victor Sullivan]

Yikes, still really hard to read, but the gameplay intrigues me.

[theBastard]

Yikes, still really hard to read, but the gameplay intrigues me.

than maybe delete rivers in non playable area could helps? do you mean that gameplay is bad or good or need any balance?

[Victor Sullivan]

Yikes, still really hard to read, but the gameplay intrigues me.

than maybe delete rivers in non playable area could helps? do you mean that gameplay is bad or good or need any balance?

Yeah, definitely delete the nonplayable rivers. I think the gameplay could be really good. I will have to investigate it more, though.

[natty dread]

^agree, but also, delete the non-playable country names or move them so they don't overlap with the legend texts.

[Victor Sullivan]

More contrast between the playable and the nonplayable areas would help, too.

[theBastard]

thanks guys for advices.
here is map without rivers in nonplayable area. the names of foreign kingdoms are in, when I deleted them the nonplayable area looks empty. I think now is text readable

Click image to enlarge.

[theBastard]

so anymore is needed to do on map? do not look at gameplay now. there could be any changes, all depends on what is possible with current XML. Helix said that how it is now "it will be hard to figure out the gameplay". so wait for move to Gameplay Workshop and there discuss about this or change gameplay here?

[isaiah40]

This is looking good though I have a couple of concerns. First I think you need to put a little outer glow on the territory text so that they are easier to read. Not much just enough for the text to stand out. Second I'm thinking that the opacity on the rivers need to be reduced a little which also would help the readability of the text.

[Industrial Helix]

Alright, the first big problem I see is that the icons are too small with the numbers on top of them, same problem you are facing on Baltic Crusades. Englarge them please.

I can't tell where the oligarch or king's regions are... well, I can but its a lot of hard looking. Maybe you could use shades of yellow or brown instead of the stripes.

I do not know where the starting points are... do you lose if you have no castle or are there starting positions?

You should state right above the castles/towns that as a general rule, you must hold both the castle and the land to receive any bonus. You should also state that castles are completely surrounded by their territory.

Submit a design brief.

[theBastard]

This is looking good though I have a couple of concerns. First I think you need to put a little outer glow on the territory text so that they are easier to read. Not much just enough for the text to stand out.

maybe also add more opacity to text could also helps. to be honest, I can have look of this map very simple.

Second I'm thinking that the opacity on the rivers need to be reduced a little which also would help the readability of the text.

yes, there is much colour, ok.

Alright, the first big problem I see is that the icons are too small with the numbers on top of them, same problem you are facing on Baltic Crusades. Englarge them please.

will do this.

I can't tell where the oligarch or king's regions are... well, I can but its a lot of hard looking. Maybe you could use shades of yellow or brown instead of the stripes.

maybe anlarge the stripes?

I do not know where the starting points are... do you lose if you have no castle or are there starting positions?

yes, each player will start with "his" castle, two towns and couple land regions.

You should state right above the castles/towns that as a general rule, you must hold both the castle and the land to receive any bonus. You should also state that castles are completely surrounded by their territory.

uf, with this I will need a little help. how to explain this in short but clear. you know, my poor English... could you help me?

Submit a design brief.

forgot, ofcourse

thanks guys for your advices.

[theBastard]

ok. here is some changes:

enlarged Towns and Castles.
changed colour of Towns for better clear.
changed bonus system (not so complex with +/-)

do not look at stripes on the map. this will be change when idea will be polished. by yours help guys
I think with this bonus system is not needed to differentiate "Royal land" or "Oligarchs land". so all map could be in the same colour.

Click image to enlarge.

[Jatekos]

The different coloring of the towns makes it much easier to tell the different symbols on the map apart. I would suggest to use different colours for royal and oligarch castles, too.
I think there is a typo in the date. You wrote 1031 AD, but it should be in 1300's.
Please use 'careful' instead of 'carefull'.

[theBastard]

The different coloring of the towns makes it much easier to tell the different symbols on the map apart. I would suggest to use different colours for royal and oligarch castles, too.

ok.

I think there is a typo in the date. You wrote 1031 AD, but it should be in 1300's.

Andrew III died in the 14 January 1301. so therefore this date as start of game...

Please use 'careful' instead of 'carefull'.

both mean the same. or again my poor english?

[natty dread]

Careful is the correct spelling.

[Jatekos]

I think there is a typo in the date. You wrote 1031 AD, but it should be in 1300's.

Andrew III died in the 14 January 1301. so therefore this date as start of game...

1301, not '1031'.

Please use 'careful' instead of 'carefull'.

both mean the same. or again my poor english?

Only one of them is grammatically correct. Maybe someone with better English than us needs to review all the texts, and rephrase them, if needed.

I think it would be good to shorten these texts and make some room for pictures. I will have a look if I can find something.

[theBastard]

1301, not '1031'.

I see now

Only one of them is grammatically correct. Maybe someone with better English than us needs to review all the texts, and rephrase them, if needed.

yes, I allways need help with text...

thanks. what do you mean about gameplay/bonuses? which do you like more?

[theBastard]

text edited. changed colour of Royal Castles.

Click image to enlarge.

[Jatekos]

If we could cut back the text then there would be room for a picture or two, which could make the map much more attractive. I like the style of the pictures created in this era a lot.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Battle_of_Rozgony