Dear Glenn Beck Fans...

[GreecePwns]

Whether or not I have a problem with it, your comparison is still invalid. The KKK is not a political party, let alone having seats in Congress, and, in your situation, the youth wings of other parties would not receive funding proportional to their membership.

[Woodruff]

You probably wouldn't understand. But I'll attempt to explain it, somehow.

The camp in question there in Norway is the Worker's Youth League. It's a political indoctrination camp of the type that would never be allowed to operate in the United States.

You definitely don't understand, so I'll explain to you.

The camp in question there in Norway is the Worker's Youth League. It is just a youth wing of a political party, just like pretty much every political party in Europe (this one just happens to be *gasp* that of a communist party). This kind of group certainly does exist in the United States, for example the Young Republicans organization and the Young Democrats of America organization. You just don't agree with communist politics, so you call it indoctrination.

The Young Republican organization receives NO FEDERAL FUNDS. All their money comes from private donations and fund raising. The taxpayer is not footing the bill.

If they received money from the government to run the organization, like the Worker's Youth League does, then we have an entirely different situation.

How can you not see the difference?

How do you SEE a difference? Where the money comes from has no impact on what is done at the camps, which IS indoctrination.

Where the money comes from makes all the difference. The taxpayer has no choice, he must pay taxes.
For a private organization to get funds they must convince people to buy into it of their own free will. So be it.
The Ku Klux Klan is a private organization. How would you feel if they received taxpayer money to run "Hate Blacky" camps?

You believe that private money CANNOT CREATE INDOCTRINATION? Holy shit...I don't even know how to respond to that, because it seems so thoroughly outside of reality that I'm having difficulty even comprehending how you could think such a thing.

The point is not at all about the money to fund. The point is completely about indoctrination of youths...thus the reference to "Hitler's Youth". Glenn Beck's camp was just as much an indoctrinator as the camp in Norway.

[patches70]

Whether or not I have a problem with it, your comparison is still invalid. The KKK is not a political party, let alone having seats in Congress, and, in your situation, the youth wings of other parties would not receive funding proportional to their membership.

The Boy Scouts of America, the Girls Scouts of America, how do you think they get their funds to run their camps? Not from the Government, they sell cookies. Private fund raising.

Where are the Democrat camps in the US?

Where are the Republican camps in the US?

And are they funded through private donations and fundraising or are they financed by government grants?

Youth camps in the United States are NOT funded by the government. Because that leads to conflicts of interest.

That goes for whatever they are preaching in the camps. Be it politics or just racial crap.

The reason for not using taxpayer money on such things is because if say you who are a Republican, if the Democrat youth camp is receiving taxpayer funds then you are paying to finance that endeavor even though it is for a cause you are diametrically opposed to.

A central government should not be using public funds to finance political camps that only increase the voting base of the incumbent in power.

How can people not see how large of a conflict of interest that is?

[Woodruff]

Whether or not I have a problem with it, your comparison is still invalid. The KKK is not a political party, let alone having seats in Congress, and, in your situation, the youth wings of other parties would not receive funding proportional to their membership.

The Boy Scouts of America, the Girls Scouts of America, how do you think they get their funds to run their camps? Not from the Government, they sell cookies. Private fund raising.

Where are the Democrat camps in the US?

Where are the Republican camps in the US?

And are they funded through private donations and fundraising or are they financed by government grants?

Youth camps in the United States are NOT funded by the government. Because that leads to conflicts of interest.

That goes for whatever they are preaching in the camps. Be it politics or just racial crap.

The reason for not using taxpayer money on such things is because if say you who are a Republican, if the Democrat youth camp is receiving taxpayer funds then you are paying to finance that endeavor even though it is for a cause you are diametrically opposed to.

A central government should not be using public funds to finance political camps that only increase the voting base of the incumbent in power.

How can people not see how large of a conflict of interest that is?

How can you not see that it's irrelevant to the point of the thread, which is plainly Glenn Beck's hypocricy.

[patches70]

You believe that private money CANNOT CREATE INDOCTRINATION? Holy shit...I don't even know how to respond to that, because it seems so thoroughly outside of reality that I'm having difficulty even comprehending how you could think such a thing.

The point is not at all about the money to fund. The point is completely about indoctrination of youths...thus the reference to "Hitler's Youth". Glenn Beck's camp was just as much an indoctrinator as the camp in Norway.

I never said that. Quit putting words into my mouth.

There is indoctrination going on all around. What I am saying is that it is not right for public funds to be used to finance those efforts because the people who are paying those taxes may well be opposed to such things and would never contribute on their own to such organizations.

The point is about indoctrination, and government sponsored indoctrination. If the government is paying for it then it's government sponsored indoctrination. That is not a good thing.

[Woodruff]

You believe that private money CANNOT CREATE INDOCTRINATION? Holy shit...I don't even know how to respond to that, because it seems so thoroughly outside of reality that I'm having difficulty even comprehending how you could think such a thing.

The point is not at all about the money to fund. The point is completely about indoctrination of youths...thus the reference to "Hitler's Youth". Glenn Beck's camp was just as much an indoctrinator as the camp in Norway.

I never said that. Quit putting words into my mouth.

There is indoctrination going on all around. What I am saying is that it is not right for public funds to be used to finance those efforts because the people who are paying those taxes may well be opposed to such things and would never contribute on their own to such organizations.

The point is about indoctrination, and government sponsored indoctrination. If the government is paying for it then it's government sponsored indoctrination. That is not a good thing.

Were you going to discuss my other point (the one that's the subject of the thread), or just ignore it?

[patches70]

How can you not see that it's irrelevant to the point of the thread, which is plainly Glenn Beck's hypocricy.

Because Glenn Beck didn't USE YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO PAY FOR HIS CAMP!!!!

Jesus freaking christ. You'd crap a brick if some of your tax dollars were used to fund his camp wouldn't you?

He used his own money or money raised through private donation from people who chose to donate that money.

That's the difference. That Youth Camp in Norway is funded by people who may not even believe in the message the camp was teaching the attendees. Through taxes.

[Woodruff]

Because none of the other youth leagues in Norway get taxpayer money? Just that one?

I'd also like to correct my statement. It is not a communist party, but a democratic socialist one.

From the American point of view no political youth camp should receive any taxpayer money from the Federal Government.

What European countries do is their own business, I'm only explaining it from the American point of view is all. There is no "right" or "wrong", there just "is" and what "isn't" between the two societies.

I am as much an American as you are. I don't get what this "American" point of view is. This isn't an ideologically pure country. I thought we were past the Hitler Youth stuff in this thread?

Look, respond to my question-

The Ku Klux Klan is a private organization that will surely indoctrinate attendees into their particular point of view. How would you feel if they received Taxpayer funds to run such endeavors?

Answer that honestly and then maybe you'll start to understand.

How would the Ku Klux Klan running a summer camp be ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL than Glenn Beck running a summer camp, from the perspective of private/public funds? Both the Ku Klux Klan and Glenn Beck would be financing with private money, not government money. So now that I've answered that honestly, maybe YOU'LL start to understand?

[patches70]

You believe that private money CANNOT CREATE INDOCTRINATION? Holy shit...I don't even know how to respond to that, because it seems so thoroughly outside of reality that I'm having difficulty even comprehending how you could think such a thing.

The point is not at all about the money to fund. The point is completely about indoctrination of youths...thus the reference to "Hitler's Youth". Glenn Beck's camp was just as much an indoctrinator as the camp in Norway.

I never said that. Quit putting words into my mouth.

There is indoctrination going on all around. What I am saying is that it is not right for public funds to be used to finance those efforts because the people who are paying those taxes may well be opposed to such things and would never contribute on their own to such organizations.

The point is about indoctrination, and government sponsored indoctrination. If the government is paying for it then it's government sponsored indoctrination. That is not a good thing.

Were you going to discuss my other point (the one that's the subject of the thread), or just ignore it?

I have tried but you refuse to see the difference between a private funded organization and a public funded organization. The youth camp in Norway is a public funded camp. The Hitler Youth was a public funded organization (with mandatory attendance at that!).

Glenn Beck used no public funds to run his private camp.

If you want to set up your own private camp and teach all the attendees about whatever views you wish to promote, then MORE POWER TO YA! Just don't use any of my taxes to do so, thank you very much.

[Woodruff]

How can you not see that it's irrelevant to the point of the thread, which is plainly Glenn Beck's hypocricy.

Because Glenn Beck didn't USE YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO PAY FOR HIS CAMP!!!!
Jesus freaking christ. You'd crap a brick if some of your tax dollars were used to fund his camp wouldn't you?
He used his own money or money raised through private donation from people who chose to donate that money.
That's the difference. That Youth Camp in Norway is funded by people who may not even believe in the message the camp was teaching the attendees. Through taxes.

So because he used his own money, that makes it not a political indoctrination camp?

That's my point...you seem to believe that as long as he uses his own finances rather than government funding, then the political indoctrination is just fine. My point is that if someone is going to decry political indoctrination to the point of comparing it to Hitler's Youth, even going so far as to make the statement of "Who does a camp for kids that’s all about politics? Disturbing.", should not be doing precisely the same thing themselves.

[Phatscotty]

not a state funded camp, LIKE THE NAZI CAMPS!!!!!!!

[Woodruff]

You believe that private money CANNOT CREATE INDOCTRINATION? Holy shit...I don't even know how to respond to that, because it seems so thoroughly outside of reality that I'm having difficulty even comprehending how you could think such a thing.

The point is not at all about the money to fund. The point is completely about indoctrination of youths...thus the reference to "Hitler's Youth". Glenn Beck's camp was just as much an indoctrinator as the camp in Norway.

I never said that. Quit putting words into my mouth.

There is indoctrination going on all around. What I am saying is that it is not right for public funds to be used to finance those efforts because the people who are paying those taxes may well be opposed to such things and would never contribute on their own to such organizations.

The point is about indoctrination, and government sponsored indoctrination. If the government is paying for it then it's government sponsored indoctrination. That is not a good thing.

Were you going to discuss my other point (the one that's the subject of the thread), or just ignore it?

I have tried but you refuse to see the difference between a private funded organization and a public funded organization.

I haven't refused any such thing. I recognize the difference...however, in the context of Glenn Beck's hypocricy, it is irrelevant. Beck should not be decrying such a thing when he is doing it himself. The financing is irrelevant, the hypocricy is the point. You seem to be going to every extreme to ignore that hypocricy, and I find that frankly...weird.

[Woodruff]

not a state funded camp, LIKE THE NAZI CAMPS!!!!!!!

What does that have to do with the statement of "Who does a camp for kids that’s all about politics? Disturbing."? Absolutely nothing...so did you have anything relevant to add, or is this just another of your dash-in, dash-out schemes?

[Phatscotty]

Wasn't this the similar left strategy to take away funding from the Boy Scouts of America?

[patches70]

Because none of the other youth leagues in Norway get taxpayer money? Just that one?

I'd also like to correct my statement. It is not a communist party, but a democratic socialist one.

From the American point of view no political youth camp should receive any taxpayer money from the Federal Government.

What European countries do is their own business, I'm only explaining it from the American point of view is all. There is no "right" or "wrong", there just "is" and what "isn't" between the two societies.

I am as much an American as you are. I don't get what this "American" point of view is. This isn't an ideologically pure country. I thought we were past the Hitler Youth stuff in this thread?

Look, respond to my question-

The Ku Klux Klan is a private organization that will surely indoctrinate attendees into their particular point of view. How would you feel if they received Taxpayer funds to run such endeavors?

Answer that honestly and then maybe you'll start to understand.

How would the Ku Klux Klan running a summer camp be ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL than Glenn Beck running a summer camp, from the perspective of private/public funds? Both the Ku Klux Klan and Glenn Beck would be financing with private money, not government money. So now that I've answered that honestly, maybe YOU'LL start to understand?

It's not different at all. It's the same.

The Youth camp in Norway is another matter all together, it's PUBLICLY FUNDED.

You'd be pissed if your tax dollars went to paying for Ku Klux Klan camps, or Glenn Beck Camps or any other multitude of opposing ideals to your own. You don't have to worry about that because the US government doesn't do that, fund those camps. Because of the conflict of interest, because of the temptation of abuse of power.

Look, if the Ku Klux Klan shows up at your doorstep and asks for a donation from you, I bet you'd tell them to get the hell off your property. Right? I would.

If they go next door and ask your neighbor to donate and he does, what can you do about it? What do you have the right to do about it? Not a damn thing. Except to stop talking to your neighbor I would imagine, just like I would.

At least you are forced to pay for Glenn Beck's camp by way of your paid taxes. The murder in Norway who attacked the camp, if he paid taxes, FUNDED THE CAMP.

Do you see the difference yet?

[Woodruff]

Wasn't this the similar left strategy to take away funding from the Boy Scouts of America?

As I recall, that was due to the Boy Scouts of America having an organizational policy of outright bigotry against homosexuals.

[GreecePwns]

Sounds like government-funded indoctrination to me.

[Woodruff]

From the American point of view no political youth camp should receive any taxpayer money from the Federal Government.

What European countries do is their own business, I'm only explaining it from the American point of view is all. There is no "right" or "wrong", there just "is" and what "isn't" between the two societies.

I am as much an American as you are. I don't get what this "American" point of view is. This isn't an ideologically pure country. I thought we were past the Hitler Youth stuff in this thread?

Look, respond to my question-

The Ku Klux Klan is a private organization that will surely indoctrinate attendees into their particular point of view. How would you feel if they received Taxpayer funds to run such endeavors?

Answer that honestly and then maybe you'll start to understand.

How would the Ku Klux Klan running a summer camp be ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL than Glenn Beck running a summer camp, from the perspective of private/public funds? Both the Ku Klux Klan and Glenn Beck would be financing with private money, not government money. So now that I've answered that honestly, maybe YOU'LL start to understand?

It's not different at all. It's the same.

But you were just acting like if the Ku Klux Klan did it, it would be bad. But if Glen Beck does it, it's good. See the disconnect?

The Youth camp in Norway is another matter all together, it's PUBLICLY FUNDED.

You'd be pissed if your tax dollars went to paying for Ku Klux Klan camps, or Glenn Beck Camps or any other multitude of opposing ideals to your own. You don't have to worry about that because the US government doesn't do that, fund those camps. Because of the conflict of interest, because of the temptation of abuse of power.

Look, if the Ku Klux Klan shows up at your doorstep and asks for a donation from you, I bet you'd tell them to get the hell off your property. Right? I would.

If they go next door and ask your neighbor to donate and he does, what can you do about it? What do you have the right to do about it? Not a damn thing. Except to stop talking to your neighbor I would imagine, just like I would.

At least you are forced to pay for Glenn Beck's camp by way of your paid taxes. The murder in Norway who attacked the camp, if he paid taxes, FUNDED THE CAMP.

Do you see the difference yet?

Were they both political camps? Did Glenn Beck say that it was "disturbing" that ANYONE (he did not specify funding types) would run such a camp? Do you see the point now? Are you even reading anything I type, or are you just assuming what you THINK I'm saying and running with it? It definitely seems like the latter.

[patches70]

So because he used his own money, that makes it not a political indoctrination camp?

I didn't say that. I don't know what his camp was nor is it any of my business. If he used my tax dollars to fund his camp then guess what? Now it does become my business.

That's my point...you seem to believe that as long as he uses his own finances rather than government funding, then the political indoctrination is just fine. My point is that if someone is going to decry political indoctrination to the point of comparing it to Hitler's Youth, even going so far as to make the statement of "Who does a camp for kids that’s all about politics? Disturbing.", should not be doing precisely the same thing themselves.

I never said it's fine. I said it's wrong for GOVERNMENT TO USE PUBLIC FUNDS FOR INDOCTRINATION CAMPS.

Private is just that, private. Don't you get that?

If your neighbor wants to have a party and invite a bunch of commies or whatever to attend and discuss the merits of their ideology, what do you care? What do I care? It's between them.

If the government pays for the beer and all the snacks using my tax dollars, that's another matter. Screw that. Same goes for any other political stuff. Private is between the parties involved. Using public funds involves the entire tax paying base.

[Woodruff]

So because he used his own money, that makes it not a political indoctrination camp?

I didn't say that. I don't know what his camp was nor is it any of my business. If he used my tax dollars to fund his camp then guess what? Now it does become my business.

That's my point...you seem to believe that as long as he uses his own finances rather than government funding, then the political indoctrination is just fine. My point is that if someone is going to decry political indoctrination to the point of comparing it to Hitler's Youth, even going so far as to make the statement of "Who does a camp for kids that’s all about politics? Disturbing.", should not be doing precisely the same thing themselves.

I never said it's fine.

You've certainly implied it. You don't at all seem willing to even recognize it as hypocricy...in fact, you seem to be fighting very hard at even admitting such a thing took place by going on about the funding, which isn't even relevant to the point.

[Phatscotty]

Where was Glenn Beck Camp? Are we just taking someone word for it here?

[patches70]

But you were just acting like if the Ku Klux Klan did it, it would be bad. But if Glen Beck does it, it's good. See the disconnect?

I don't care if the Ku Klux Klan runs a camp. It's no concern to me at all so long as I don't have to pay for it. So long as they don't intrude upon my property or the property of others.

I don't care if Glenn Beck runs a camp. So long as I don't have to pay for it. So long as he doesn't intrude upon my property or the property of others.

It's not good or bad. It just is.

People can spend their money how they want. But if the government funded either of them in their camps, then I'd be pissed. Because they are using the money I am FORCED to pay and giving it to ideologically groups I am incompatible with and would never give money to willingly.

Were they both political camps? Did Glenn Beck say that it was "disturbing" that ANYONE (he did not specify funding types) would run such a camp? Do you see the point now? Are you even reading anything I type, or are you just assuming what you THINK I'm saying and running with it? It definitely seems like the latter.

Glenn Beck clearly states that he is opposed to the Government funded camp. How can you not see that?

He is not saying people can't run those camps, he's saying that government's shouldn't be paying to run those camps. Glenn Beck is saying the camp in Norway was a government funded indoctrination camp, and he's right. It is. See, this guy agrees-

Sounds like government-funded indoctrination to me.

Go berate him and make yourself look more like a fool.

Was Glenn Beck's camp a government funded indoctrination camp? Hell No! How can it be when the government didn't fund it! It was funded by private donations for christ sakes.

Or are you willing to tell people what they can and can't donate to as well as thinking government funded political camps are ok?

[patches70]

So because he used his own money, that makes it not a political indoctrination camp?

I didn't say that. I don't know what his camp was nor is it any of my business. If he used my tax dollars to fund his camp then guess what? Now it does become my business.

That's my point...you seem to believe that as long as he uses his own finances rather than government funding, then the political indoctrination is just fine. My point is that if someone is going to decry political indoctrination to the point of comparing it to Hitler's Youth, even going so far as to make the statement of "Who does a camp for kids that’s all about politics? Disturbing.", should not be doing precisely the same thing themselves.

I never said it's fine.

You've certainly implied it. You don't at all seem willing to even recognize it as hypocricy...in fact, you seem to be fighting very hard at even admitting such a thing took place by going on about the funding, which isn't even relevant to the point.

Was Glenn Beck's camp all about politics? If so, how do you know? Did you attend?

I don't know anything about his camp. I don't care. But if he received taxpayer money I'd freaking care and say HELL NO!

If the Boy Scouts of America want my tax dollars I'd say HELL NO.

If the Girl Scouts of America want my tax dollars I'd say HELL NO.

If the Young Republicans want my tax dollars I'd say HELL NO.

Our public funds are not for political camps. They are for our roads, our military, our postal service (LOL).

There is no hypocrisy because Glenn Beck didn't use any public funds to run his camp, whether it is a political camp or not.
The AUF camp on the other hand relies on government grants from Norway to fund their camps. More power to them, but if anyone tried that shit in the US I'd have no choice but to say HELL NO.

His (Beck's) words are bother you, then you go tell him about his "hypocrisy". Scream it to your heart's content. Makes no difference at all. He didn't take a thing from you, be it money or time.
If he had taken your tax dollars I'd be right with you bitching. But he didn't. So I don't care.


Government funded indoctrination is what Beck said the Youth Camp in Norway is. Is that true or not?

[Symmetry]

Where was Glenn Beck Camp? Are we just taking someone word for it here?

Tampa Bay apparently- an off-shoot of his 9-12 project:

The group's website is here.

Tampa Bay's St Petersburg Times covered it here

One example at Liberty: Children will win hard, wrapped candies to use as currency for a store, symbolizing the gold standard. On the second day, the "banker" will issue paper money instead. Over time, students will realize their paper money buys less and less, while the candies retain their value.

"Some of the kids will fall for it," Lukens said. "Others kids will wise up."

Another example: Starting in an austere room where they are made to sit quietly, symbolizing Europe, the children will pass through an obstacle course to arrive at a brightly decorated party room (the New World).

Red-white-and-blue confetti will be thrown. But afterward the kids will have to clean up the confetti, learning that with freedom comes responsibility.

Still another example: Children will blow bubbles from a single container of soapy solution, and then pop each other's bubbles with squirt guns in an arrangement that mimics socialism. They are to count how many bubbles they pop. Then they will work with individual bottles of solution and pop their own bubbles.

"What they will find out is that you can do a lot more with individual freedom," Lukens said.

Sounds fun!

[john9blue]

i just read the whole thread. wow, woodruff. please, please tell me you are just trolling patches70.