Discussion on WWII

[saxitoxin]

In the UK, there's a fair amount of resentment about how long the USSR took to get involved too.

In Albania, Ethiopia, China, Slovakia and the Czech Republic, there's a fair amount of resentment about how long the UK took to get involved, too.

[Baron Von PWN]

There seems to be a strange reluctance by a couple of posters to give the USSR the lion's share of the credit for the defeat of Germany in WW2.Got me wondering if this might be a hangover from cold war times when the USSR was demonised in the west and in the US in particular.

Aye, it's certainly a hangover. But mostly it's the idea that a certain country should be credited with the "win". In the UK, there's a fair amount of resentment about how long the USSR took to get involved too. And there's plenty of internal bitterness about appeasement.

The US and USSR never saw the horrors that the UK faced during the Blitz. The UK and the US never experienced the horrors the USSR felt on the Eastern front.

Wounds run deep, but there's little reason not to accept that the US did their part, and that it was a major part.

Plus,those of us who grew up watching Audie Murphy beating the Germans singlehanded,and films like 'The Longest Day',amongst others,never really got to know about the Eastern front until we were high school age and able to read about it ourselves if we wished.There was also a cultural shift towards making less sanitised,more realistic movies after the Cold War inspired crap of the 1950s and 60s.Enemy at the Gates is a good example.
Btw the USSR's involvement begins when it was attacked,are you suggesting there is resentment in the UK due to a feeling they should have attacked Germany first?I've never come across that argument before.

Why shouldn't people in the UK feel some resentment? The Soviets were selling materials to the germans right up until the Germans invaded. Not only that the Soviets gave the Germans the green light thanks to the Molotov-ribentrop agreement. It's unlkely the Germans would have acted if they thought the Soviets would attack as well. The only reason the UK chose to forget that was because of how totaly screwed they would be fighting Germany AND the Soviet Union.

of course the Soviets had no reason to love the UK seeing as it hadn't been all that long since the UK and other western allies had troops in Russia backing up the white forces, or the open hatred of the Soviet's ideology expressed by british members of parliament.

[chang50]

There seems to be a strange reluctance by a couple of posters to give the USSR the lion's share of the credit for the defeat of Germany in WW2.Got me wondering if this might be a hangover from cold war times when the USSR was demonised in the west and in the US in particular.

Aye, it's certainly a hangover. But mostly it's the idea that a certain country should be credited with the "win". In the UK, there's a fair amount of resentment about how long the USSR took to get involved too. And there's plenty of internal bitterness about appeasement.

The US and USSR never saw the horrors that the UK faced during the Blitz. The UK and the US never experienced the horrors the USSR felt on the Eastern front.

Wounds run deep, but there's little reason not to accept that the US did their part, and that it was a major part.

Plus,those of us who grew up watching Audie Murphy beating the Germans singlehanded,and films like 'The Longest Day',amongst others,never really got to know about the Eastern front until we were high school age and able to read about it ourselves if we wished.There was also a cultural shift towards making less sanitised,more realistic movies after the Cold War inspired crap of the 1950s and 60s.Enemy at the Gates is a good example.
Btw the USSR's involvement begins when it was attacked,are you suggesting there is resentment in the UK due to a feeling they should have attacked Germany first?I've never come across that argument before.

Why shouldn't people in the UK feel some resentment? The Soviets were selling materials to the germans right up until the Germans invaded. Not only that the Soviets gave the Germans the green light thanks to the Molotov-ribentrop agreement. It's unlkely the Germans would have acted if they thought the Soviets would attack as well. The only reason the UK chose to forget that was because of how totaly screwed they would be fighting Germany AND the Soviet Union.

of course the Soviets had no reason to love the UK seeing as it hadn't been all that long since the UK and other western allies had troops in Russia backing up the white forces, or the open hatred of the Soviet's ideology expressed by british members of parliament.

I can see that argument,what I am less convinced about is Symm's position that the UK resented the USSR for not entering the war earlier,one I had never heard before,especially as that would mean a pre-emptive strike on Germany.Your point about the UK and others meddling in the USSR after the revolution is also well made.

[Symmetry]

There seems to be a strange reluctance by a couple of posters to give the USSR the lion's share of the credit for the defeat of Germany in WW2.Got me wondering if this might be a hangover from cold war times when the USSR was demonised in the west and in the US in particular.

Aye, it's certainly a hangover. But mostly it's the idea that a certain country should be credited with the "win". In the UK, there's a fair amount of resentment about how long the USSR took to get involved too. And there's plenty of internal bitterness about appeasement.

The US and USSR never saw the horrors that the UK faced during the Blitz. The UK and the US never experienced the horrors the USSR felt on the Eastern front.

Wounds run deep, but there's little reason not to accept that the US did their part, and that it was a major part.

Plus,those of us who grew up watching Audie Murphy beating the Germans singlehanded,and films like 'The Longest Day',amongst others,never really got to know about the Eastern front until we were high school age and able to read about it ourselves if we wished.There was also a cultural shift towards making less sanitised,more realistic movies after the Cold War inspired crap of the 1950s and 60s.Enemy at the Gates is a good example.
Btw the USSR's involvement begins when it was attacked,are you suggesting there is resentment in the UK due to a feeling they should have attacked Germany first?I've never come across that argument before.

You might want to look at the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

The USSR had a treaty with the Nazis not to interfere. Yeah, there's resentment about that.

Anyway, like I said, the wounds run deep.

[chang50]

There seems to be a strange reluctance by a couple of posters to give the USSR the lion's share of the credit for the defeat of Germany in WW2.Got me wondering if this might be a hangover from cold war times when the USSR was demonised in the west and in the US in particular.

Aye, it's certainly a hangover. But mostly it's the idea that a certain country should be credited with the "win". In the UK, there's a fair amount of resentment about how long the USSR took to get involved too. And there's plenty of internal bitterness about appeasement.

The US and USSR never saw the horrors that the UK faced during the Blitz. The UK and the US never experienced the horrors the USSR felt on the Eastern front.

Wounds run deep, but there's little reason not to accept that the US did their part, and that it was a major part.

Plus,those of us who grew up watching Audie Murphy beating the Germans singlehanded,and films like 'The Longest Day',amongst others,never really got to know about the Eastern front until we were high school age and able to read about it ourselves if we wished.There was also a cultural shift towards making less sanitised,more realistic movies after the Cold War inspired crap of the 1950s and 60s.Enemy at the Gates is a good example.
Btw the USSR's involvement begins when it was attacked,are you suggesting there is resentment in the UK due to a feeling they should have attacked Germany first?I've never come across that argument before.

You might want to look at the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

The USSR had a treaty with the Nazis not to interfere. Yeah, there's resentment about that.

Anyway, like I said, the wounds run deep.

I can concur with that clarification,I also know first hand my parents generations attitudes were shaped by the war,certainly the austerity of that time never left them.Also there was a degree of resentment to US servicemen based in the UK,'OVERPAID,OVERSEXED,AND OVER HERE'.

[Symmetry]

I guess there was at the time, but it's not really a resentment that carries through to the modern day. A counterpart might well be that African-American servicemen were generally much more welcome in the UK than white American servicemen were comfortable with.

Not that the UK was some racist-free paradise, of course, but there was a culture clash.

[chang50]

Another interesting fact I gleaned from talking with my uncle and others is that no-one ever seriously considered we might lose,even when things were at their worst.Obviously the government hid quite a bit from the populace to keep morale high.

[Baron Von PWN]

There seems to be a strange reluctance by a couple of posters to give the USSR the lion's share of the credit for the defeat of Germany in WW2.Got me wondering if this might be a hangover from cold war times when the USSR was demonised in the west and in the US in particular.

Aye, it's certainly a hangover. But mostly it's the idea that a certain country should be credited with the "win". In the UK, there's a fair amount of resentment about how long the USSR took to get involved too. And there's plenty of internal bitterness about appeasement.

The US and USSR never saw the horrors that the UK faced during the Blitz. The UK and the US never experienced the horrors the USSR felt on the Eastern front.

Wounds run deep, but there's little reason not to accept that the US did their part, and that it was a major part.

Plus,those of us who grew up watching Audie Murphy beating the Germans singlehanded,and films like 'The Longest Day',amongst others,never really got to know about the Eastern front until we were high school age and able to read about it ourselves if we wished.There was also a cultural shift towards making less sanitised,more realistic movies after the Cold War inspired crap of the 1950s and 60s.Enemy at the Gates is a good example.
Btw the USSR's involvement begins when it was attacked,are you suggesting there is resentment in the UK due to a feeling they should have attacked Germany first?I've never come across that argument before.

Why shouldn't people in the UK feel some resentment? The Soviets were selling materials to the germans right up until the Germans invaded. Not only that the Soviets gave the Germans the green light thanks to the Molotov-ribentrop agreement. It's unlkely the Germans would have acted if they thought the Soviets would attack as well. The only reason the UK chose to forget that was because of how totaly screwed they would be fighting Germany AND the Soviet Union.

of course the Soviets had no reason to love the UK seeing as it hadn't been all that long since the UK and other western allies had troops in Russia backing up the white forces, or the open hatred of the Soviet's ideology expressed by british members of parliament.

I can see that argument,what I am less convinced about is Symm's position that the UK resented the USSR for not entering the war earlier,one I had never heard before,especially as that would mean a pre-emptive strike on Germany.Your point about the UK and others meddling in the USSR after the revolution is also well made.

On the other hand the allies were trying to help out their allies from the war(Tsarist loyalists) and were also somewhat pissed by all the stuff the revolutionaries were saying. Such as refusing to recognize any tsarist debts or promising to help fun revolutionaries across the globe. It's a fun rabbit warren of misunderstandings and mistrust when dealing with soviet foreing relations during this point in time!