Why communism wont work.

[hockeycapn]

Social Darwinism as stated was the bastard child of Darwin's ideas that said that those that are better will survive against those that are lesser. Darwin never said this, it was a creation of European society so they could account for Imperialism. If the Africans were better then they wouldn't have lost to us in a war.

That principle was then applied to microeconomical ventures within states. If McDonalds isn't any good then why do they have so many stores world wide? If "mom and pop's R us" was any good it would have stayeed in business. Same goes for Walmart and Sears, and Starbucks.

[stabskillz13]

McDonalds and all the other buisnessess you mentioned must be doing something right, having a massive chain of restaurants globally doesn't happen by accident. I'm not saying the mom and pop stores arn't good, I'm just saying, Social Darwinism seems to have more then just a grain of truth.

[meltinguras]

communism is only for idealists, humans can never accept true equality because like animals we are naturally selfish and greedy, but if i was god creating a perfect world then of course i'd go w/ a communist society, communism requires a world so rich in resources that everyone has more than they need, but even then some humans are born to become dominant and power hungry

[kingwaffles]

As has been said before, I don't believe that humans are by their very nature greedy, I think that it is the combination of our capitalist society and easy access to power. I do believe that some people may naturally be somewhat greedy, but I think that on the whole Humans can achieve true equality.
Also Beans, thats not what Social Darwinism is, it's the belief that some people are naturally better than others and will therefore always succeed and the others won't. Although there may be some truth in it, it is not
a generally accepted theory at all, in fact in my eyes it is nothing more than propaganda.

[hockeycapn]

Yeah I think we've already established that it isn't human nature to be greedy, greed is a by-product of the society in which we live. In a different society one could be content to own only as much as one needed and more giving to those that are in need.

[meltinguras]

i'd have to say we're born selfish, kids have to be taught to share

[areon]

Melt, we already suggested that people who don't agree should read up on non-Western cultures to find different ways of living. Not all societies are based around this mold that everyone can't seem to think outside of. If you think their aren't enough resources on the Earth for everyone to live comfortably, then you might want to burst your bubble. It has been proven that global starvation isn't due to lack in food supplies, it's just that we have a system set up where the areas like Sudan that suffer crop damage from severe weather don't have an alternative set up. That and the government's willingness to kill off the religious minority.

[meltinguras]

im

[meltinguras]

im saying that humans r born selfish & so communism can't work when the population is too large, it works in very small communities because selfishness can be restricted to a community as a unit but don't expect different communities to get along in a communist fashion, sure equality survivies within tribes but not between them

[areon]

As I suggested read on some people like the Iroqouis(sp?) Confederation. They controlled a lot of territory and were stable until introduced to Western powers. Some others are the tribes that have the bastardized names like Pueblo and Sioux. It's not restricted to Native Americans either, there are many instances in the Pacific such as the Aboriginee(sp). Their contact with other islands neighboring them wasn't just a single tribe. They also aren't exactly the same in speach and culture but have found a balance. Their are so many other examples that I'm sure that mankind as a whole could learn from. Just remember that people aren't evil or greedy automatically and shouldn't be judged either. It's hard to see this atmosphere when we are brought up to thrive in it and to not question it either. Yes, 'modernized' nations have technology, medicine, and affluent luxuries to live in. But why is there such a high percentage of people who have to suffer to make this system work? My last point is that while Natives would commonly fall and embrace drugs, new behaviours, or weapons from us when contact is made, very few of them immediately want to move into the western fold. It takes time to 'civilize' them and convince them that our way of life is better. Their might be a reason for this other than the condenscending answer of "They are too stubborn and ignorant to accept our superior ways."

[Willgfass]

i have not read anything before this. i am saying my views: Communism is based on everyone equal and the planing on the economy. those are what it is based on and that is why it fails. no one can plan for such a random thing as the economy. Second, the rulers of the party give themselves more power therfore defying what it is. a perfect form of communism would be better off than the ones seen in the past, but is very difficult. also with communism, you don't get to choose your job.

[Blitzkreig]

How can you say that communism is good and socialism is bad, socialism, according to Engels, is the first stage of communism, The Dictatorship of the Proletariets, without it, communism is impossible. By the way, you really need to read the Manifesto before you go off on rants like this. Besides, communism has been implemented in various communes throughout the world, with good results.

COMMUNISM AND SOCIALISM ARE NOT THE SAME LOOK IT UP

[Black Jack]

[quote="meltinguras"]i'd have to say we're born selfish, kids have to be taught to share[/quote

You beat me to it

Watch toddlers at play sometime.

You will see greed and avarice at its best/worse.

[vtmarik]

You beat me to it

Watch toddlers at play sometime.

You will see greed and avarice at its best/worse.

Do you know why they do that?

At a very young age, they are assigned ownership roles. "This is your toy." "This is your house."

It's passive conditioning. The main problem with this is that parents don't even realize that they do it.

The growth of the Ego occurs when a baby realizes that his needs supercede those of others. While the baby might not realize this on a cognitive level, he realizes it on a general level. 'When I cry, Mommy comes running.' Egotism is the first thing a child develops when he learns to deal with the sensory bombardment that is the world. So, yes, in a way we are all born fair but become greedy. It's the curse of reason. Rather than accepting things, we Humans with our rationalizing ways have to have some kind of mechanism to explain this. The baby does so in an extremely general way. 'Mommy comes when I cry, I must be important.'

We never lose this sense of ego, because this is the seed of our individuality. 'Mommy loves me most. She loves me more than anyone else. Ergo, i am the most important person in the world.'

"Communism" or more generally a classless society relies on the breaking of the ego. When people forget their own egos, they forget their own sense of superiority over everyone else. That's why Communism never succeeds for very long because the Ego doesn't stay broken. Eventually it repairs itself and then revolution occurs.

I agree, Communism as a philosophy looks good on paper, but psychologically it can never succeed.

[Romber]

wow this is still around?

[Nobunaga]

... Damn. vtMarik . . . You're not a product of public schools, are you?

... (this is a compliment)

[vtmarik]

... Damn. vtMarik . . . You're not a product of public schools, are you?

... (this is a compliment)

^_^

I can't help it, i tend to view things as they are.

[Caleb the Cruel]

i decided to revive this thread from page11
i believe communism does work in theory

[spiesr]

You should live there then.

[P Gizzle]

in theory it works, but in reality it never does...note that Cubans are on rafts just to get out of Cuba

[BigBallinStalin]

.

[Juan_Bottom]

Cuba has a life expectancy greater than the US. So there's something to say for it.

[PLAYER57832]

As I suggested read on some people like the Iroqouis(sp?) Confederation.[

It's Iroquois, and was, as the name says, a confederation of different tribes, including the Seneca, Mohawn, Oneida, Cayuga, and Onondaga.

They controlled a lot of territory and were stable until introduced to Western powers.

Sort of true, but it was hardly an entirely peaceful union. There is a reason they put up a very significant fight against whites. They were constantly battling other groups.

The women grew the crops, etc and took care of things, while the men went off to fight and do religious stuff. (more or less)

Some others are the tribes that have the bastardized names like Pueblo and Sioux.

That you would tie these with the Iroquois rather means you don't know all that much about them.

It's not restricted to Native Americans either, there are many instances in the Pacific such as the Aboriginee(sp). Their contact with other islands neighboring them wasn't just a single tribe. They also aren't exactly the same in speach and culture but have found a balance.[/quote]
You have a rather idiolized view of native cultures. Ironically, this is probably as, well racist/condescending as people who think they are all evil. Native tribes, like any other large group of people are mixtures of good and bad, stupid, intelligent and plain crazy pieces. Any society that persists has to form a balance with the world around, of a kind. However, that hardly translates into peace or sharing in all cases.

Their are so many other examples that I'm sure that mankind as a whole could learn from. Just remember that people aren't evil or greedy automatically and shouldn't be judged either. It's hard to see this atmosphere when we are brought up to thrive in it and to not question it either. Yes, 'modernized' nations have technology, medicine, and affluent luxuries to live in. But why is there such a high percentage of people who have to suffer to make this system work? My last point is that while Natives would commonly fall and embrace drugs, new behaviours, or weapons from us when contact is made, very few of them immediately want to move into the western fold. It takes time to 'civilize' them and convince them that our way of life is better. Their might be a reason for this other than the condenscending answer of "They are too stubborn and ignorant to accept our superior ways."

It is true that we could learn a fair amount from Native Tribes, but peace is not necessarily what we would learn. Those cultures have been rather idolized in history. There is absolutely a lot we can learn about many things. Diet, crops, ways of dealing with nature. The general concept of considering future consequences. However, idolizing any people is a mistake.

[PLAYER57832]

Social Darwinism isnt something that you are "for" or not. Just like you cant be "for" evolution because its a proven fact (Lets just leave that debate for now). Social darwinism, in essence, is the belief that the rich will push the poor off (not intentionaly) as to control the population. It is more like the pessimistic little brother to some of the beliefs held true in capitalism.

Actually, social Darwinism was the idea that the groups that are more successful, specifically whites (by the precepts of the time), was because they were genetically superior. It further is tied to eugenics, the idea that certain traits should be weeded out of society for the good of all.

Initially, it was embraced by US scientists. However, Hitler took it to such an extreme that the whole idea has pretty well been discredited. The most basic problem is that what people percieve to be "good traits" are only temporarily good. Also, they are far more to do with environment than genetics.

Of course, in the early 1900's they had little knowledge of other cultured civilizations, such as China, Japan, etc. They gave no consideration to native tribe in the Americas and certainly not to ancient African societies (except in history books, perhaps).

In recent years, it has begun to very, very slowly and carefully emerge. For example, parents who get genetic tests for things like Tay sachs, etc could be, in a sense, practicing social Darwinism. However, it is on a very limited scale and even then, is controversial.

[PLAYER57832]

Cuba has a life expectancy greater than the US. So there's something to say for it.

True. For all we disparage Cuba, many people who live there are actually quite happy and do live better than other south American Nations.

I certainly would not want to move there, but America does have this tendency to myopia when it comes to anything touching on communism.