Is there a God?

[jesterhawk]

But the U.S has a lot of ground to make up on this area, I just hope that in some time in the future, the American goverment will take action to tell people how the world really is created, and get people of the thoughts of dependency of a supernatural force!

I have no doubt this will happen.

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.
- 2 Timothy 3:1-5

I like this game. Keep it up.

JH

[mpjh]

"2000 years and he ain't come yet."
(The Second Sitting for the Last Supper)

He came. Mary Magdalene helped him. Didn't you read the Da Vinci Code?

Click image to enlarge.

[Juan_Bottom]

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

And who will be the judge of this? Most of this is already true, and always has been. Isn't it ironic that your religion says that the world will end if people don't believe in it?
Wasn't it Heavycola who posted a quote from a wall in Egypt from like 1,000 years ago that said "the end is near, children don't respect their parents, greed is everywhere, ect ect..."

[jesterhawk]

Stämmer det förresten att en fjärdedel av alla svenskar är ateister?

Unfortunately, I have no idea what was said here

No it doesn't! 75% is paying taxes to the church, but we pay taxes for everything here! And it's not comparable to how many who actually are religious, nor goes to church, Only old people goes to church in Sweden, haven't met one single person under 40 who goes to church on a regular basis! About 90% of swedens population is ateists.

I find this HIGHLY unlike since I know someone from Sweden, besides you. But even if this was true it doesn't make God any less real. My grandmother is having issues with her mind and she can look at my car and tell me it is a sedan (like my old car) and she will argue with all her might for hours that it is a sedan. And in her mind it is a sedan and one will argue all they want that to her that fact is that it is a sedan and that it is relative. But that does not change the TRUTH that my car is a Pontiac Montana MiniVan. And no amount of arguing or slick talk or speak of relative point of view will change the TRUTH that it is a MiniVan. If it breaks down, I need MiniVan parts to fix it. I need MiniVan tires to keep it on the road and so forth. So, 100% of the people of your nation or even the world can believe with all their heart that there is no God but it does not change the TRUTH that there is one and that he loves you and that he sent his son to pay for your sins so that hopefully one day you would come to know him and receive the gift of heaven.

But only a few of procent of the cristians in this country goes to church. The number of active Cristians and active Muslims is probably even here. and it's not over a halfmillion total. This include, Cristians and Muslims. But then you also need to know that about 10% of our population is imigrants from the middleast.

The 10%, I think is off, but the even numbers is about right from what my friends say.

This may sound impossible but it's actually true. 1 not to big town in Sweden received alone as many refugees from the middleast, as the entire U.S. The U.S is known for it's multiculture! but refugees from the middleast is not something it's good at receiving.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you trying to say that your town is not good at receiving the Muslim refugees that are coming from the middle east? And if so, how does that support your original point because I thought that the atheist was supposed to be the pinnacle of picture perfect tolerance and it was us Bible thumping hard headed Christians that just want to see everyone in heaven and won't shut up about it that were the ones that aren't good at receiving people of other religions.


JH

[jesterhawk]

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

And who will be the judge of this? Most of this is already true, and always has been. Isn't it ironic that your religion says that the world will end if people don't believe in it?
Wasn't it Heavycola who posted a quote from a wall in Egypt from like 1,000 years ago that said "the end is near, children don't respect their parents, greed is everywhere, ect ect..."

While I agree many of these things are happening and have happened for some time, they are ever increasing. And as for the end, if you read Bible prophecies for the end times, it reads like a road map for what has been happening around the world and we are getting close to the end. In fact, most Bible scholars believe that we are within a generation of the second coming of Jesus. Some believe that it might be as soon as the next 10 years. It is hard to get an exact date because the Bible speaks in terms of signs and not dates, but the signs are there all pointing to a coming to an end in which everyone will stand before God.

9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
- Philippians 2:9-11

This is why Christians are constantly beseeching almost to the point of begging people to come to know Jesus now before they cross the line or before that day comes because on that day it will be too late to choose Jesus. And on that day every knee will bow before Jesus willingly or not and the last thing you want to have to do is bow then and realize that all the Christians were right and have to spend and eternity in hell.

Basically it all boils down to this. There either is a God or there isn't. If there isn't one then it doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter whether you live you life for a fictional God or not except that it might make you strive to be a better person and people might like you better. But in the, it would not make one bit of difference because you will die and it will all be over and it will return to dust. HOWEVER, on the other side, IF there is a God there is a significant reason to live for him. Because not living for him can have very dire consequences. Every religion of the world has some form of eternal punishment for not choosing to follow and serve God. So, if he exists, then it is best that you follow him and serve him. And following that line of thought (I would have said logic, but I know there are those who think that is not logic and I don't want to engage in a debate about what is logic). Wouldn't it be the safer bet to then serve God even on the JUST IN CASE side because the last thing you want to do is not serve him and die and find out there was a God. So, then the decision becomes which God do you serve? If you do a study of the Gods of this earth (which I did of at least the major religions), you will find that there are basically two major lines of thought. Line one is the work you way to salvation (many including Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Ba'hai, etc.) in which salvation is based on making sure you do enough good things to outweigh the bad things you have done. That is great provided that you have not done a really huge list of bad things because then you are basically screwed. There can be some variations to this theme like you work part of the way and then wind up in a holding place like purgatory until someone else helps you in the rest of way or you get reincarnated until you (get it right) reach a state of nirvana (heaven), but the basic is a concepts of works. Line two is salvation by God's grace alone (the born again Christian). This line states that Jesus came and paid the price for our sins because we could not do it ourselves because the price or payment required our death. So, Jesus was our substitution and died our death on the cross and since he was God paid for the debt of sins of all mankind and all we have to do to receive salvation is to accept this gift and turn to him and live for him. Now, given the two lines of thought on God, I personally would rather have the second because on the first, I would never really know if I was in good standing. If I had done enough to go to heaven should I die at the moment because as anyone could see by looking around, death can come suddenly for anyone. So, just on thinking this through wouldn't it make sense to want to serve God and serve the Christian God because everything was done for us by Jesus and salvation is a gift. This way if there is a God we are in and if there isn't then we have lost nothing because we would have lived a better life.

That said, those of us who are Christians can tell you for fact and truth that we have discovered that coming to Jesus we have found that God IS REAL and that he wants to know you and love you and fill your life with a joy that you could never imagine. And these are things that are above and beyond heaven, which is really our retirement plan. This is why we share and we share and we share and we even beg because we know how good it is on this side of the fence and we really really really want you on this side. And we know that heaven would just not be same without.

Anyway, some food for thought.

JH

[jesterhawk]

"2000 years and he ain't come yet."
(The Second Sitting for the Last Supper)

He came. Mary Magdalene helped him. Didn't you read the Da Vinci Code?

I actually have not read the DaVinci Code. I haven't had time. I have also heard mixed reviews.

JH

[MeDeFe]

Click image to enlarge.

Is that The Marriage of the Republicans and the Democrats?

[General Dogsbody]

Probably not. So get on with your life.

[God Emperor Q]

yes, its me, for the thousandth time

[MeDeFe]

yes, its me, for the thousandth time

And you can do anything?

[God Emperor Q]

of course

[MeDeFe]

of course

Like take off your underpants while still wearing your trousers?

[Gillipig]

Stämmer det förresten att en fjärdedel av alla svenskar är ateister?

Unfortunately, I have no idea what was said here

No it doesn't! 75% is paying taxes to the church, but we pay taxes for everything here! And it's not comparable to how many who actually are religious, nor goes to church, Only old people goes to church in Sweden, haven't met one single person under 40 who goes to church on a regular basis! About 90% of swedens population is ateists.

I find this HIGHLY unlike since I know someone from Sweden, besides you. But even if this was true it doesn't make God any less real. My grandmother is having issues with her mind and she can look at my car and tell me it is a sedan (like my old car) and she will argue with all her might for hours that it is a sedan. And in her mind it is a sedan and one will argue all they want that to her that fact is that it is a sedan and that it is relative. But that does not change the TRUTH that my car is a Pontiac Montana MiniVan. And no amount of arguing or slick talk or speak of relative point of view will change the TRUTH that it is a MiniVan. If it breaks down, I need MiniVan parts to fix it. I need MiniVan tires to keep it on the road and so forth. So, 100% of the people of your nation or even the world can believe with all their heart that there is no God but it does not change the TRUTH that there is one and that he loves you and that he sent his son to pay for your sins so that hopefully one day you would come to know him and receive the gift of heaven.

But only a few of procent of the cristians in this country goes to church. The number of active Cristians and active Muslims is probably even here. and it's not over a halfmillion total. This include, Cristians and Muslims. But then you also need to know that about 10% of our population is imigrants from the middleast.

The 10%, I think is off, but the even numbers is about right from what my friends say.

This may sound impossible but it's actually true. 1 not to big town in Sweden received alone as many refugees from the middleast, as the entire U.S. The U.S is known for it's multiculture! but refugees from the middleast is not something it's good at receiving.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you trying to say that your town is not good at receiving the Muslim refugees that are coming from the middle east? And if so, how does that support your original point because I thought that the atheist was supposed to be the pinnacle of picture perfect tolerance and it was us Bible thumping hard headed Christians that just want to see everyone in heaven and won't shut up about it that were the ones that aren't good at receiving people of other religions.


JH

I had written 40 sentences as a reply to this but when I posted it, It turns out that I wasn't logged in, so It all parished. But now I don't have the stamina to write it again, just so that you know; the things that I posted are true but to convince you I would have to give you a 40 sentences reply.

[Gillipig]

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

And who will be the judge of this? Most of this is already true, and always has been. Isn't it ironic that your religion says that the world will end if people don't believe in it?
Wasn't it Heavycola who posted a quote from a wall in Egypt from like 1,000 years ago that said "the end is near, children don't respect their parents, greed is everywhere, ect ect..."

While I agree many of these things are happening and have happened for some time, they are ever increasing. And as for the end, if you read Bible prophecies for the end times, it reads like a road map for what has been happening around the world and we are getting close to the end. In fact, most Bible scholars believe that we are within a generation of the second coming of Jesus. Some believe that it might be as soon as the next 10 years. It is hard to get an exact date because the Bible speaks in terms of signs and not dates, but the signs are there all pointing to a coming to an end in which everyone will stand before God.

9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
- Philippians 2:9-11

This is why Christians are constantly beseeching almost to the point of begging people to come to know Jesus now before they cross the line or before that day comes because on that day it will be too late to choose Jesus. And on that day every knee will bow before Jesus willingly or not and the last thing you want to have to do is bow then and realize that all the Christians were right and have to spend and eternity in hell.

Basically it all boils down to this. There either is a God or there isn't. If there isn't one then it doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter whether you live you life for a fictional God or not except that it might make you strive to be a better person and people might like you better. But in the, it would not make one bit of difference because you will die and it will all be over and it will return to dust. HOWEVER, on the other side, IF there is a God there is a significant reason to live for him. Because not living for him can have very dire consequences. Every religion of the world has some form of eternal punishment for not choosing to follow and serve God. So, if he exists, then it is best that you follow him and serve him. And following that line of thought (I would have said logic, but I know there are those who think that is not logic and I don't want to engage in a debate about what is logic). Wouldn't it be the safer bet to then serve God even on the JUST IN CASE side because the last thing you want to do is not serve him and die and find out there was a God. So, then the decision becomes which God do you serve? If you do a study of the Gods of this earth (which I did of at least the major religions), you will find that there are basically two major lines of thought. Line one is the work you way to salvation (many including Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Ba'hai, etc.) in which salvation is based on making sure you do enough good things to outweigh the bad things you have done. That is great provided that you have not done a really huge list of bad things because then you are basically screwed. There can be some variations to this theme like you work part of the way and then wind up in a holding place like purgatory until someone else helps you in the rest of way or you get reincarnated until you (get it right) reach a state of nirvana (heaven), but the basic is a concepts of works. Line two is salvation by God's grace alone (the born again Christian). This line states that Jesus came and paid the price for our sins because we could not do it ourselves because the price or payment required our death. So, Jesus was our substitution and died our death on the cross and since he was God paid for the debt of sins of all mankind and all we have to do to receive salvation is to accept this gift and turn to him and live for him. Now, given the two lines of thought on God, I personally would rather have the second because on the first, I would never really know if I was in good standing. If I had done enough to go to heaven should I die at the moment because as anyone could see by looking around, death can come suddenly for anyone. So, just on thinking this through wouldn't it make sense to want to serve God and serve the Christian God because everything was done for us by Jesus and salvation is a gift. This way if there is a God we are in and if there isn't then we have lost nothing because we would have lived a better life.

That said, those of us who are Christians can tell you for fact and truth that we have discovered that coming to Jesus we have found that God IS REAL and that he wants to know you and love you and fill your life with a joy that you could never imagine. And these are things that are above and beyond heaven, which is really our retirement plan. This is why we share and we share and we share and we even beg because we know how good it is on this side of the fence and we really really really want you on this side. And we know that heaven would just not be same without.

Anyway, some food for thought.

JH

What if the Yoruba people are right, and that the world was created when Odua grabbed a five toed chicken and climbed down a chain to make the chicken spread dirt the in a shell across an enormous ocean! Do you think that you would be favored by other religions just because you believe in a religion, or do you think that if my god doesn't exist I was wrong, If the later is the case, you have say, Either is my religion right, or all the other religions or atheism is right, you can't say that all sorts of beleive would be right if only one religion is right.

[Juan_Bottom]

"2000 years and he ain't come yet."
(The Second Sitting for the Last Supper)

He came. Mary Magdalene helped him. Didn't you read the Da Vinci Code?

I actually have not read the DaVinci Code. I haven't had time. I have also heard mixed reviews.

JH

The basic premis of the Da Vinci Code is a fairly old one. That Jesus was a man, and Mary was his wife. Then they had kids. Makes sense if you're an Atheist or Jew... Not so much if your Christian. But the Auther didn't come up with it. I can remember reading a little about in in Junior High. I think the actual idea came from some Scholors in the 70s.
I didn't read the book either. I don't think it would make a difference for any Christian if we found his lineage living in the Australian outback.

What if the Yoruba people are right,

They are I asked.

How is it that you are not a member of the GH? You seem to be the only Atheist left on the site with the energy to argue with the cocoon of logic that the believers use...

[OnlyAmbrose]

How is it that you are not a member of the GH? You seem to be the only Atheist left on the site with the energy to argue with the cocoon of logic that the believers use...

And let me tell you, his arguments are bulletproof. I mean, it's tough to argue with "I'm right and if you don't think so you're either not thinking hard enough or you're a retard."

[Gillipig]

How is it that you are not a member of the GH? You seem to be the only Atheist left on the site with the energy to argue with the cocoon of logic that the believers use...

I don't know, the arguments are waterproof but they don't even consider them, they only read the arguments so that they can write something that workes against us without answering any questions, have you ever seen a post of a religious person that only answer logical questions, without making a counter question.

I think I have a childish believe that religios people are thinking human beings!

[PLAYER57832]

I don't doubt that. European Atheists seem to outnumber we American Atheists on this site in a per capita way.

Thats the big difference between American people and European in general, our lifestyle is pretty similar, but Religion is the big issue, I for an exampel have never been in church on a sunday (not even once), How many Americans have done that, almost everyone!

History does matter.

Remember, you pushed a lot of those with strong beliefs out in the 1700's and 1800's. Also seems like a lot of even more moderate folks fled because they just were not in the "correct" belief stream at the time.

So, basically, those who stayed are those who decided they would just "get along" ... regardless. No surprise that religion is dying off. (Except it isn't really .. it just so happens that atheism is on the rise).

[PLAYER57832]

The basic premis of the Da Vinci Code is a fairly old one. That Jesus was a man, and Mary was his wife. Then they had kids. Makes sense if you're an Atheist or Jew... Not so much if your Christian. But the Auther didn't come up with it. I can remember reading a little about in in Junior High. I think the actual idea came from some Scholors in the 70s.
I didn't read the book either. I don't think it would make a difference for any Christian if we found his lineage living in the Australian outback.

Uh.. you got your dates off just "a bit".

A lot of this dates back to the Gnostics, a sect so popular for a while that it was a major reason for cannonizing the Bible we have today.

[Juan_Bottom]

How is it that you are not a member of the GH? You seem to be the only Atheist left on the site with the energy to argue with the cocoon of logic that the believers use...

And let me tell you, his arguments are bulletproof. I mean, it's tough to argue with "I'm right and if you don't think so you're either not thinking hard enough or you're a retard."

You should be glad there is finally an Atheist on the site that you can actually hold an arguement with. I have never seen an Atheist lose a "GOD is real?" arguement here before. Ever.

I don't know, the arguments are waterproof but they don't even consider them, they only read the arguments so that they can write something that makes that workes against us. I think I have a childish believe that religios people are thinking human beings!

Huh? I'm referring to the Atheist clan, the Godless Heathens. We're social & everyone is welcome.

(Except it isn't really .. it just so happens that atheism is on the rise)

Huh? So the number of active religious people is unchanging? I'm confused here, please elaborate?

Uh.. you got your dates off just "a bit".

I wasn't clear enough, sorry. I didn't notice it till you brought it up. I mean it was considered just another story until the 70s.

[Gillipig]

I don't know, the arguments are waterproof but they don't even consider them, they only read the arguments so that they can write something that makes that workes against us. I think I have a childish believe that religios people are thinking human beings!

Huh? I'm referring to the Atheist clan, the Godless Heathens. We're social & everyone is welcome.

I'm on! how do I join?

[MeDeFe]

I don't know, the arguments are waterproof but they don't even consider them, they only read the arguments so that they can write something that makes that workes against us. I think I have a childish believe that religios people are thinking human beings!

Huh? I'm referring to the Atheist clan, the Godless Heathens. We're social & everyone is welcome.

I'm on! how do I join?

You apply (Control Panel) and send a pm to the leader so he knows you want in.

[Juan_Bottom]

You apply (Control Panel) and send a pm to the leader so he knows you want in.

[Gillipig]

Speaking of your self as a third person is the biggest sign of megalomania!

[PLAYER57832]

(Except it isn't really .. it just so happens that atheism is on the rise)

Huh? So the number of active religious people is unchanging? I'm confused here, please elaborate?

I meant that there is a reported resurgance of Christian belief in Europe, but that atheism is also growing. I think atheism is growing faster, but I don't really know.

Uh.. you got your dates off just "a bit".

I wasn't clear enough, sorry. I didn't notice it till you brought it up. I mean it was considered just another story until the 70s.

If you mean 70 AD, I believe you are still out of date. If you mean the 1970's.... you are still way off. The Gnostic sect was extremely popular in the early AD years. It almost eclipsed what we now think of as orthodox Christianity (not Greek Orthodox, but GO, Roman Catholics and Protestants all.

The ideas periodically resurface in various forms. Parts of it, I believe, are even in the Koran (but I am not 100% positive... there is a story of the boy Christ pushing a friend off a roof and then bringing him back to life in the Koran, I believe ... or at least it is part of the Muslim tradition). The Davincci Code is only one of the latest encarnations.