falsely accused of being multis [Closed]

[olkok]

Thanks for the support from the CC community. smokespride is basically a disabled account now. He can't look at any message or message anyone, so the messages that have been sent to him will go unanswered. He is not able to use the forums either.

[Sun Tzup]

Wow. How dissapointing. I guess if you share a computer in a house with your son (so I should buy my 5 year old his own computer before allowing him to play risk?) basically CC will close my account if I start a free account for my son...

With great power comes great responsibility. I hope CC steps up and provides some evidence OR a way to allow people to create accounts from the same cuomputer without fear of reprisals from disgruntled players or admin.

Best of luck to you oklok.

[Serbia]

Wow. How dissapointing. I guess if you share a computer in a house with your son (so I should buy my 5 year old his own computer before allowing him to play risk?) basically CC will close my account if I start a free account for my son...

With great power comes great responsibility. I hope CC steps up and provides some evidence OR a way to allow people to create accounts from the same cuomputer without fear of reprisals from disgruntled players or admin.

Best of luck to you oklok.

A separate computer won't do the trick, it's the IP address.

[dividedbyzero]

Thanks for the support from the CC community. smokespride is basically a disabled account now. He can't look at any message or message anyone, so the messages that have been sent to him will go unanswered. He is not able to use the forums either.

Swell. smokespride is in my freemium to premium tourney.

[Woodruff]

The sad thing is that since this thread is CLOSED, nobody else is gonna look at it.

[laci_mae]

The sad thing is that since this thread is CLOSED, nobody else is gonna look at it.

The community will look at it b/c it is growing rapidly. However, upon this post, I am send a pm to the mod in support of olkok.

It is too bad that this error is holding up some many things going on in CC life. Like the tourney I'm in w/olkok.

Closed is a ridiculous status for this thread.

Laci

[scottp]

unfortunately, the attitude i have witnessed from most of the mods is one of "i'm the babysitter, and you're the brat i'm forced to watch over".

I understand HOW that attitude could evolve... i have witnessed a lot of bad behavior and childishness on here.

However, the proprietors of this BUSINESS should do what they need to do in order to change the dynamic. They should be here to facilitate the enjoyment of the site by their paying customers and their potential new customers... not to CONTROL them.

Those that can't act like adults should be permanently shown the door and refunded their money (perhaps this is the rub) for the betterment of the entire community. Once the bad seeds are gone, they can spend more time enhancing the CC experience for the rest, rather than spending so much time in crisis control mode.

[jbrettlip]

The people causing trouble have already been kicked out before. Or they are the mods. A cleanse is not what this forum needs, some better management and leadership is.

[lancehoch]

olkok, do you mind if I ask a few questions of you here?

Does the person who uses the olkok account have the password to the smokespride account?
Does the person who uses the smokespride account have the password of the olkok account?
Are either of the passwords saved in the computer?

Has the user of the olkok account ever signed into the smokespride account?
Has the user of the smokespride account ever signed into the olkok account?

[e_i_pi]

olkok, do you mind if I ask a few counter questions of you here?

Do you have the answer to any of the questions you posed?
If so, how did you come by them, wouldn't that point towards an invasion of privacy?

Does it matter if one person has the password of another person?
Don't you need the password of another person in order to babysit an account?
Isn't babysitting legal?
How come some people playing from the same IP are blocked, but others are banned?
Why is there inconsistency in the rulings?
How come a ban is implemented when there is no community mention of these players cheating?
How come they are considered multis if they have never played a game together?
Why has no evidence been presented?
Is there even any evidence at all of these players cheating?

Aren't you getting a little defensive?

[olkok]

Does the person who uses the olkok account have the password to the smokespride account?
Answer: Yes
Does the person who uses the smokespride account have the password of the olkok account?
Answer: No
Are either of the passwords saved in the computer?
Answer: Yes, both are saved in Firefox. So yes smokespride could have gotten into the olkok account without me knowing or by clicking the wrong username by mistake.

Has the user of the olkok account ever signed into the smokespride account?
Answer: Yes, but only to monitor what he is doing. I work in the IT field and keep a close eye on what my kids do online. I would not want any of my kids to do things inappropriately, but also to make sure they are not being treated inappropriately. There are too many people out there that prey on children. So far this has been a good site to play games on without being too concerned with the other gamers and my kids interactions.
Has the user of the smokespride account ever signed into the olkok account?
Answer: It is possible since the passwords are saved in Firefox.

I hope these answers help. Also, thanks again to the CC community for you support. It has been overwhelming and shows that this is a great community.

olkok

[laci_mae]

olkok, do you mind if I ask a few counter questions of you here?

Do you have the answer to any of the questions you posed?
If so, how did you come by them, wouldn't that point towards an invasion of privacy?

Does it matter if one person has the password of another person?
Don't you need the password of another person in order to babysit an account?
Isn't babysitting legal?
How come some people playing from the same IP are blocked, but others are banned?
Why is there inconsistency in the rulings?
How come a ban is implemented when there is no community mention of these players cheating?
How come they are considered multis if they have never played a game together?
Why has no evidence been presented?
Is there even any evidence at all of these players cheating?

Aren't you getting a little defensive?

I agree with these sentiments, but know that the mods will see them as too harsh. The mods should seek answers to their questions. And props to olkok for answering promptly and honestly. This should make it more apparent that there is no foul play in this case.

I do agree that multis should be hunted out. To my knowledge the primary signal of a multi is a free account that is used to boost the points of a premium account. When this issue is identified, then evidence that both accounts are being played from the same location should be used in support. It currently seems that the mods are putting the cart before the horse. You can't just go around accusing people who play from the same local, and then force them to prove they aren't cheating.

L

[lancehoch]

To my knowledge the primary signal of a multi is a free account that is used to boost the points of a premium account.

This is not true. There are many instances where there are many free accounts linked together. There are also instances of someone having multiple premium accounts. As for the primary signal, we do not go around looking at every premium account to see if they play a free account a lot.

You can't just go around accusing people who play from the same local, and then force them to prove they aren't cheating.

That is not what happened in this case.

[Artimis]

So I guess the lesson we can all take from this is:

Don't let your family run their accounts from your computer. In fact, don't even let then use the same internet connection, you'll just get busted for multiple accounts.

So with that in mind, I'll discourage my parents and my friends from trying out Conquer Club on my computer, otherwise I might wake up one morning to a silver icon.

[Night Strike]

So I guess the lesson we can all take from this is:

Don't let your family run their accounts from your computer. In fact, don't even let then use the same internet connection, you'll just get busted for multiple accounts.

So with that in mind, I'll discourage my parents and my friends from trying out Conquer Club on my computer, otherwise I might wake up one morning to a silver icon.

FAQ #13 states that the hunters are good at telling the difference between roommates and family members, so there's nothing for legitimate players to be afraid of. I know when my g/f joined the site, I went ahead and informed the hunters in case we played from the same computer (which we have done several times), but even without that they're good at what they do. From what I've seen before, there are many times where individuals are given the benefit of the doubt as to them being separate people rather than multiple accounts. I don't know what the hunters have up their sleeves, but there was obviously enough evidence to convince multiple hunters/admins beyond a reasonable doubt of multiple accounts.

[jbrettlip]

I think in a case like this, which has caught the attention of the community, perhaps a little more disclosure should be provided. I don't know this guy, or his kid (or even if said kid exists), but the PRINCIPLE of it all is what worries me. I know there are husband/wives that are on here, students who may use public computers, and myself who logs in from hotels all the time. I don't want to lose my premium because another user is taking a business trip the same day I am!

So, please tell us what was found. You don't have to divulge methods etc, but I think an answer would be nice for peace of mind.

[Night Strike]

An answer for your peace of mind will just give multis and trolls information that they can use to avoid detection. That sounds to me like it would hurt the site much more than this solitary case would.

[jbrettlip]

I don't know how saying, okl has no kid helps multis. Not how you found out it was one person, but just the conclusion. Especially when one person on here says he is related to BOTH the other users.

Bernie Madoff's trial isn't being held in secrecy because that would help other fraudsters if what he did was made public. It comes down to customer service. Just tell us once and for all, what he/they were found guilty of besides just saying multiple accounts, when there seems to be a reasonable explanation (whether true or not) and a character witness (whether credible or not) in this thread.

[lancehoch]

Just tell us once and for all, what he/they were found guilty of...

Having and using two accounts.

[laci_mae]

Just tell us once and for all, what he/they were found guilty of...

Having and using two accounts.

To what end?

The point I was trying to make earlier was that, for cheating or rule-breaking to occur, there has to be some type of motive. The only potential motive that I am aware of is point padding. If there is another motive which arose in this instance, I'd be interested to learn what it is so that I might look out for it also.

The "No multiple accounts" rule was not established out of fear of proliferating account creators. It has implications for cheating or manipulating the system in some way. Simply having 2 accounts is not, in and of itself, a wrong to the community. Using those accounts in a way that deceives others is what is wrong.

Laci

[JCKing]

I honestly don't see how you came to this conclusion. Honestly someone with premium would not have a multi and play with it. Pretty sure this needs to be looked into more. But I know at least one other father son duo in Keyborn and JCSolidrock. Again not sure who would be dumb enough to put their premium in jeopardy by playing on two accounts, one freemium and other premium. Please look into this again, and hopefully they'll send in another e-ticket or as many as needed. Though I'd also tend to trust King Achilles judgement. As he has always been fair in his judgements in the past.

[SirSebstar]

I know of at least two persons whom have bought premiums and continued with their free multi's. I know for a fact that it is possible and happened. I know nothing about this case though.

[Snorri1234]

Just tell us once and for all, what he/they were found guilty of...

Having and using two accounts.

So two people can't have two accounts?

[AAFitz]

Well, I would have guessed this was a legitimate mistake too. However, absence of motive means nothing. Further, the motive does not need to have anything to do with winning points, winning games etc. Many have started multis, just to have another account to play with. The want to play different types of games, play with a different score against different players, and the list goes on...

I would love to start a multi. If I could pay for a second account legally, Id have one in a second, and it would never have anything to do with points on my first account...

My guess here, is that these accounts were used back to back quite a bit. I bet one player would log into the other right afterwards, and far more than on one occasion. Theres no way the hunters didnt look into this thoroughly, so I simply have seen too many cases to suspect they made a rash decision.

Its still very possible that these are two separate people, and that the Dad really is just trying to protect his kid. Unfortunately, thats hard to know for sure, and I think the hunters are good enough to see if moves were made.

Again, looking at the info it really does seem to be a legit mistake, but I also have seen enough to know that that does not mean it is. The thought that this really is just a Dad taking care of his son's account really is painful, if he got busted for it.
If I had the $20 id buy him the gift account, on the outside chance of it...as a player that would be my right...but as CC staff, they have no choice but to enforce the rules.

It is these cases that show how much cheaters ruin the fun for everyone, because if there werent so many malicious multis, with so many lies, and so many cheaters out there, and so many stories like this that didnt pan out, it would be much easier to believe on the surface. Unfortunately the cheaters ruin it for us all, and occasionally innocents get wrongly accused and punished... all we can hope, is that the hunters do a good job finding the real ones, and not punishing the innocent players.

These are the toughest cases, because there will always be doubt, no matter what the situation. I myself just know they dont make these decisions lightly, so its fairly clear that the Dad was probably logging into the Sons account quite a bit, and Im sure it was right after he was playing his own turns. If he was doing it to just see what his kid was doing, then I dont blame him one bit. The problem is, it is how multis usually play their multis games...and I would be very, very surprised, If he was not also making moves on quite a few occasions for this bust.

All we can do, is hope that either it was a multi account, or that the Dad is able to further show he wasnt playing the multi account. I do know this. Ive supported many players in here, that Id have thought beyond reproach and above suspicion, and many have turned out to be multis in the end. Again, I actually happen to believe the guy, but I also know what must be there for evidence for the bust, so I post this to let all see it from both points of view.

You can trust the hunters...they will make mistakes, but they will not blindly stand by them without sufficient evidence. They have, and will continue to make mistakes occasionally and unfortunately, but you have to trust they are doing everything they can to avoid them.

[lancehoch]

The point I was trying to make earlier was that, for cheating or rule-breaking to occur, there has to be some type of motive.

That is not true. There does not have to be any motive to break the rules.

Rule #1: No multiple accounts

Multiple accounts are discovered by routine scans and community cheating reports. They are strictly forbidden whether or not they play in the same games. If you suspect certain accounts belong to the same person, please report it following the instructions at the top of the Cheating & Abuse Reports forum.

The only potential motive that I am aware of is point padding. If there is another motive which arose in this instance, I'd be interested to learn what it is so that I might look out for it also.

Some people use a second account to learn maps or try different settings.

The "No multiple accounts" rule was not established out of fear of proliferating account creators. It has implications for cheating or manipulating the system in some way.

This is true. I believe that you have not thought of the situation I posted above.

Simply having 2 accounts is not, in and of itself, a wrong to the community. Using those accounts in a way that deceives others is what is wrong.

That is not what the rule says. The rule is explicit in stating that you may only ever have one account. Period.

Again, I posted in the thread in GD, if these accounts are cleared, I will apologize.