The Rich and Taxes: A Debate

[HapSmo19]

Maybe I should reply in Russian? can't read it? tough love!

In this instance, tough-love would only apply if someone could actually benefit from reading what you wrote.

[jimboston]

P.S the way you responded made it difficult (in a format sense) to reply.

I was being lazy. Of course, I am not here to make your life easy... so GFY.

Maybe I should reply in Russian? can't read it? tough love!

This seems to be a good summary of your general attitude "this is good for me, everyone else can go to hell"

Well if you replied in Russian, and I thought it worthy of a response I would find a way.

So um yes... tough love.

Of course your use of my phrase is completely out of context and makes no sense.

That said, if I needed to find a way to read your Russian and reply... I would find a way. A very large portion of those on welfare would find a way to get by... but they don't need to bother because "society" takes care of everything for them.

[jimboston]

Maybe I should reply in Russian? can't read it? tough love!

In this instance, tough-love would only apply if someone could actually benefit from reading what you wrote.

Oh Hap... I replied (above) before I read your response.

Same gist.

[jimboston]

So people who don't pay taxes, aren't people to be counted? Is that what you are saying? someone making more than 250k a year is still making more money than them.

Why shouldn't the poor be included in this discussion? they obviously have an effect on taxes, besides you are proposing taxing them at 15% of their meager earnings.

You again missed the point.

All people count.

That said, why should people who pay no taxes have an interest in how taxes are calculated.

The 98% number includes people who pay no taxes.

If you only factored in tax-payers then the person earning $250K would be somewhere in the 70-80 percentile of all tax-payers.

You can have a flat tax starting after the first say (INSERT NUMBER) of earnings. Thereby excluding low-income people from paying any tax... just like today.

[jimboston]

My understanding was this thread was about taxes in general (is it right/justified to tax high income earners more)...

I don't know how the American tax system works.

'nuff said

This is a discussion about taxes in general. Not the specifics of the American system. 'nuff said

Um... you're quite wrong.

The opening post of this thread by Phatscotty specifically references the White House, Congressional Republicans, and their recent actions in reference to the "Bush-Era Tax Cuts".

I think that makes it quote clear we are talking about the American system.

If you somehow thought we were talking about something else... well, you were wrong.

Um... apology accepted.

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

[Aradhus]

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

That's because you're an imbecile who has no comprehension that what happens in China affects America, what happens in Russia affects America, what happens in Afghanistan affects America, and on and on.

[Phatscotty]

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

That's because you're an imbecile who has no comprehension that what happens in China affects America, what happens in Russia affects America, what happens in Afghanistan affects America, and on and on.

It is possible for something to happen in Europe and have it affect America, and have most Americans not give a flying f*ck. total nonsequitor.

Shit man, a lot of American's don't even have a clue what is going on in America. An awful lot of Brits too

[Iliad]

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

That's because you're an imbecile who has no comprehension that what happens in China affects America, what happens in Russia affects America, what happens in Afghanistan affects America, and on and on.

It is possible for something to happen in Europe and have it affect America, and have most Americans not give a flying f*ck. total nonsequitor.

Shit man, a lot of American's don't even have a clue what is going on in America. An awful lot of Brits too

But that doesn't make them self-centred as jim claimed, but lazy and ignorant. So no, not a non sequitur.

[Phatscotty]

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

That's because you're an imbecile who has no comprehension that what happens in China affects America, what happens in Russia affects America, what happens in Afghanistan affects America, and on and on.

It is possible for something to happen in Europe and have it affect America, and have most Americans not give a flying f*ck. total nonsequitor.

Shit man, a lot of American's don't even have a clue what is going on in America. An awful lot of Brits too

But that doesn't make them self-centred as jim claimed, but lazy and ignorant. So no, not a non sequitur.

definition non sequitur: Latin for "it does not follow." It is most often used as a noun to describe illogical statements.

[Phatscotty]

http://www.breitbart.tv/barney-frank-de ... heritance/

Must See interview with Maria Barteromo and Barney Frank.

[Iliad]

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

That's because you're an imbecile who has no comprehension that what happens in China affects America, what happens in Russia affects America, what happens in Afghanistan affects America, and on and on.

It is possible for something to happen in Europe and have it affect America, and have most Americans not give a flying f*ck. total nonsequitor.

Shit man, a lot of American's don't even have a clue what is going on in America. An awful lot of Brits too

But that doesn't make them self-centred as jim claimed, but lazy and ignorant. So no, not a non sequitur.

definition non sequitur: Latin for "it does not follow." It is most often used as a noun to describe illogical statements.

Did you even bother reading what I wrote?

[Phatscotty]

sure did, and don't disagree with what you wrote. Just taking it a step further

[Aradhus]

How is it not a bad thing that apparently most Americans are ignorant or lazy, or uninformed, or self centered, etc etc?

[Phatscotty]

How is it not a bad thing that apparently most Americans are ignorant or lazy, or uninformed, or self centered, etc etc?

I guess then there aren't too many rich people to tax/loot......RIGHT??????????

[Aradhus]

How is it not a bad thing that apparently most Americans are ignorant or lazy, or uninformed, or self centered, etc etc?

I guess then there aren't too many rich people to tax/loot......RIGHT??????????

Dunno why I'm even bothering to respond to this reprehensible garbage. I guess in your mind all poor people are lazy, uninformed, ignorant and self centred, and all rich people are hard working, informed, generous and open minded. Completely explains your despicable mindset.

In summation - Go f*ck yourself.

[Phatscotty]

How is it not a bad thing that apparently most Americans are ignorant or lazy, or uninformed, or self centered, etc etc?

I guess then there aren't too many rich people to tax/loot......RIGHT??????????

Dunno why I'm even bothering to respond to this reprehensible garbage. I guess in your mind all poor people are lazy, uninformed, ignorant and self centred, and all rich people are hard working, informed, generous and open minded. Completely explains your despicable mindset.

In summation - Go f*ck yourself.

your words.,..not mine!

My point, is that usually, ignorance, laziness, etc, is not a recipe for wealth. If most Americans are, as you so ignorantly and pompously said, "lazy and ignorant", how the F is there so many rich people for you to hate? you see, it just doesn't make sense.

[lilrvrgrl]

I am sure that the informed of you have seen this before, perhaps it is time to revisit it.

"Understanding Tax Cuts"
David R. Kamerschen

Sometimes politicians, journalists and the liberal left exclaim; "It's just a tax cut for the rich!" and it is just accepted to be fact.

But what does that really mean?

Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, I hope the following will help. Please read it carefully.

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this: The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay $1.

The sixth would pay $3.

The seventh would pay $7.

The eighth would pay $12.

The ninth would pay $18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." Dinner for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to eat their meal. So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).

The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men Began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start eating overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[spurgistan]

Well, we totally didn't see that exact same copypasta three pages ago. It still fails at mentioning what country rich people go to where they can enjoy the standard of living they enjoy in the US.

[Aradhus]

How is it not a bad thing that apparently most Americans are ignorant or lazy, or uninformed, or self centered, etc etc?

I guess then there aren't too many rich people to tax/loot......RIGHT??????????

Dunno why I'm even bothering to respond to this reprehensible garbage. I guess in your mind all poor people are lazy, uninformed, ignorant and self centred, and all rich people are hard working, informed, generous and open minded. Completely explains your despicable mindset.

In summation - Go f*ck yourself.

your words.,..not mine!

My point, is that usually, ignorance, laziness, etc, is not a recipe for wealth. If most Americans are, as you so ignorantly and pompously said, "lazy and ignorant", how the F is there so many rich people for you to hate? you see, it just doesn't make sense.

Uh.. You know that people can read, right? Granted you clearly struggle to do so.

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

That's because you're an imbecile who has no comprehension that what happens in China affects America, what happens in Russia affects America, what happens in Afghanistan affects America, and on and on.

Shit man, a lot of American's don't even have a clue what is going on in America.

But that doesn't make them self-centred as jim claimed, but lazy and ignorant. So no, not a non sequitur.

How is it not a bad thing that apparently most Americans are ignorant or lazy, or uninformed, or self centered, etc etc?

Notice that when I respond to the words and implications that you and others brought to the discussion I prefaced it with the word apparently. At no point did I make the claim that Americans en masse, are anything, you did. You, on the otherhand, are about as pathetic as they come. You can demagogue all day long that I hate the rich, it actually says nothing truthful about me, and a lot about you.

[thegreekdog]

Well, we totally didn't see that exact same copypasta three pages ago. It still fails at mentioning what country rich people go to where they can enjoy the standard of living they enjoy in the US.

Where do the poor people go to get the same standard of living they have in the US?

Because I'm rich, I think I'll move to Canada. I heard it's nice and I can enjoy the same rich standard of living that I enjoy in the United States: a late 90s model Hyundai, three-bedroom townhouse, basic cable, small television... you know, all the stuff that rich people have.

Because, you know... I'M FUCKING RICH! YEAH GOVERNMENT, HERE'S 40% OF MY SALARY BECAUSE GOD FORBID I BUY A NICER FUCKING CAR SO THAT I CAN DRIVE MY FUTURE CHILD AROUND IN SAFETY!!!

[spurgistan]

Well, we totally didn't see that exact same copypasta three pages ago. It still fails at mentioning what country rich people go to where they can enjoy the standard of living they enjoy in the US.

Where do the poor people go to get the same standard of living they have in the US?

Because I'm rich, I think I'll move to Canada. I heard it's nice and I can enjoy the same rich standard of living that I enjoy in the United States: a late 90s model Hyundai, three-bedroom townhouse, basic cable, small television... you know, all the stuff that rich people have.

Because, you know... I'M FUCKING RICH! YEAH GOVERNMENT, HERE'S 40% OF MY SALARY BECAUSE GOD FORBID I BUY A NICER FUCKING CAR SO THAT I CAN DRIVE MY FUTURE CHILD AROUND IN SAFETY!!!

Poor people generally shouldn't and don't make the threat that unless they pay fewer taxes / get more benefits, they'll leave the country, because that would be stupid and counterproductive, notwithstanding the fact that they could enjoy a much better life in Northern European social democracies.

So, I feel like your problem is that $250k is an absurdly low top bracket? It is. We could lower taxes on a whole lot of people by just making more tax brackets and cutting down on loopholes. I really hope tax reform is on the table, soon, because what we have now is often stupid regressive.

[thegreekdog]

So, I feel like your problem is that $250k is an absurdly low top bracket? It is. We could lower taxes on a whole lot of people by just making more tax brackets and cutting down on loopholes. I really hope tax reform is on the table, soon, because what we have now is often stupid regressive.

Yes, this is what I'm saying.

There's not a whole lot of difference between someone make $250K and someone making $150K and someone making $80K in terms of worldly possessions and overall wealth. There is a whole lot of difference between someone making $250K and someone making $2 million or $20 million or $200 million in terms of worldly possessions and overall wealth.

Here's thegreekdog's off the top of his head plan:

(1) Raise the top tax bracket from $250K to $1 million per married couple.
(2) Make the applicable tax rate based upon gross income before deductions (except for the deduction for state taxes paid) for those in the top tax bracket.
(3) Lower the tax rate to a flat 25% for those making under $1 million per married couple.
(4) Raise the tax rate to a flat 50% for those making over $1 million per married couple.

[Baron Von PWN]

My understanding was this thread was about taxes in general (is it right/justified to tax high income earners more)...

I don't know how the American tax system works.

'nuff said

This is a discussion about taxes in general. Not the specifics of the American system. 'nuff said

Um... you're quite wrong.

The opening post of this thread by Phatscotty specifically references the White House, Congressional Republicans, and their recent actions in reference to the "Bush-Era Tax Cuts".

I think that makes it quote clear we are talking about the American system.

If you somehow thought we were talking about something else... well, you were wrong.

Um... apology accepted.

BTW... most American's don't give a flying f*ck what they do in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. We are pretty self-centered here... and I don't see that as a bad thing.

He offers a specific example then asks a series of broad question. THe thread title is also "The rich and Taxes: A debate" this open it up to broader discussion. Well as the saying goes ignorance is bliss. Very biblical in a way.

[Phatscotty]

Well, we totally didn't see that exact same copypasta three pages ago. It still fails at mentioning what country rich people go to where they can enjoy the standard of living they enjoy in the US.

Yet, while the "failure" is arguable, which I will argue, it barely relates to the point at hand.

Costa Rica looking AOK from here. Your dollars go 33% further there too. Only one exception though, if you want to immigrate there, you have to do it legally AND create at least 1 job (something like that).

Wait, maybe they are racists then.....NEVERMIND!

[Phatscotty]

How is it not a bad thing that apparently most Americans are ignorant or lazy, or uninformed, or self centered, etc etc?

Notice that when I respond to the words and implications that you and others brought to the discussion I prefaced it with the word apparently. At no point did I make the claim that Americans en masse, are anything, you did. You, on the otherhand, are about as pathetic as they come. You can demagogue all day long that I hate the rich, it actually says nothing truthful about me, and a lot about you.

Yeah well You don't edit fast enough.