[SPECIAL] Surprise Mafia - Over - Mafia Wins - MVP Aladdin

[the white rose]

used it cause i thought i could get result back before my probable death

no, don't accept that, had you died that night, you could not have given us any result in any case.

why did you not wait till D3 before investigating Ragian?

[Ragian]

No, wait, Benga used the Personality Module to investigate me. If you trust Benga, you should trust me.

i used my cop investigation to test you during N2

So you used the Personality Module to become bulletproof, then?

[Ragian]

Alright, TWR, go right ahead. Convince everyone that Benga and I are scumbuddies. Here's a crowbar for you to try to pry open that narrow scope.

You're saying:

if deg had have been scum surely he would have used it to kill a townie....had i been scum and you gave it to me, i would kill you with it, so long as i knew you were not my scum buddy. therefore the fact that he did not suggests that he was your scum buddy, or he himself is not scum

First, you don't know how Deg plays as scum and your entire argument hinges on what you would have done. Second, there was a warning saying not to use force (because the gun would kill the user if one used it to kill with). Third, Deg used the "wound"-setting, thinking that Mitch would die eventually. Fourth, I don't know if this is just because you have phrased yourself poorly, but Deg wouldn't know who gave him the item, so it doesn't make sense to say that if you would kill me with it.

i understand that this module had 2 uses, 1 was a cop check and the other bulletproof. benga used it to cop check you.

Nope, he used it to become bulletproof. He used one of his two retired cop checks to check me.

this [the definer] increases the likliehood that you and benga are scum buddies, if we were to believe this definer and lynched deg, then rish and they both flipped town, we would know that you were scum buddies, but by then the game would be lost.

Nope. You would only know that my invention was indeed bullcrap.

so basically we have to decide now. the only other option would be to lynch you and if you flipped town then that would clear benga and we could choose who to lynch out of deg and rish tomorrow...however, if you flipped scum then we could with some confidence say that deg and rish are town. We need to know who chose these 3? was it the mods, or benga, or did you choose them yourself?

Of course, the mods chose the three. How would I know who were scum? How would Benga know? Your question doesn't make sense.

Are you suggesting that we lynch me to check my sanity? Is this suggestion seriously coming AFTER we've lynched Wing? No wonder several wasted their investigations on you.

[benga]

No, wait, Benga used the Personality Module to investigate me. If you trust Benga, you should trust me.

i used my cop investigation to test you during N2

So you used the Personality Module to become bulletproof, then?

used it on D3, thought i would be more needed than just making a blind shot

[benga]

used it cause i thought i could get result back before my probable death

no, don't accept that, had you died that night, you could not have given us any result in any case.

why did you not wait till D3 before investigating Ragian?

cause i was mistaken. thought i get result before night is over

[rizky_biznezz]

@TWR -- im not sure who i would pick between deg and rish but im also not sure if we can ignore it...
but actually the thought had crossed my mind too... rage gave the dangerous invention to deg (the gun that would kill deg if he used the kill setting) then gives 2 other inventions to benga-- bulletproof to save his possible scum buddy and an alignment indicator which if given to town could have one of their names on it.. benga says rage is town and rage is helping benga... benga hasn't really added much he made a poor case on ptlowe and voted him then voted falko early... nothing solid enough for me to go down that road but something to consider..

@DJ now that your theory of -- 2 of wing/storr/aladdin are scum is busted what are your thoughts now??

fpd a lot

[the white rose]

so basically we have to decide now. the only other option would be to lynch you and if you flipped town then that would clear benga and we could choose who to lynch out of deg and rish tomorrow...however, if you flipped scum then we could with some confidence say that deg and rish are town. We need to know who chose these 3? was it the mods, or benga, or did you choose them yourself?

Of course, the mods chose the three. How would I know who were scum? How would Benga know? Your question doesn't make sense.

not necessarily, it could have been that benga gave 3 names to the mods and they said 1 is scum other 2 are town

benga, please explain how exactly you used it, did you just pm the mods and say i want to use this definer and the mods told you that one of the three are scum, or did you get to choose which 3 to check and the mods just told you that one of your choices is scum the other 2 town.

[Ragian]

@rizky, why are these reservations coming to light now? Why not yesterday before we lynched Wing?

[the white rose]

@TWR -- im not sure who i would pick between deg and rish but im also not sure if we can ignore it.....

and that is the key. if we trust the definer and it is wrong and both deg and rish are lynched on the strength of it, then it is game over. So that is the first key question we must decide, whether to trust this or not. we cannot afford to lynch 2 more townies.....we could possibly afford to lynch benga or ragian, if either flipped scum, we reject the definer, if they flip town, then we choose between deg and rish tomorrow, but we would have to get it right tomorrow. The added advantage of lynching benga is that if he flips town, then we can safely lynch ragian and clear deg and rish as confirmed townies.

benga says that he used the bulletproof on D3, why the hell would you want to do that when scum can only night kill? it would only protect you against a vigilante kill. Surely the common sense thing to do would be to use it N2 and investigate ragian on D3 when you are guaranteed to be alive having used the bulletproof the night before.

[benga]

twr and rizky woke up, one doesn't want to claim and the other was quiet the whole game
and they bring up the stuff that was already debated during game

nice you want to lynch town that you can't kill during night, if that isn't scummy...

[rizky_biznezz]

@ragian i was still deciding before the lynch but if using the 3 i did say i would prefer to keep wing... if we had of lynched rish and he was town wing could have shot deg then we go wing the next day if deg wasnt scum or if wing didnt shoot.. only 2 lynches not a possible 3.... it is the only lead of sorts that we have so it makes sense to follow it but im sure it has crossed everyones mind that it could be wrong and we could waste the next 2 lynches on townies.... only brought it up because rose mentioned he was having similar thoughts plus arent we supposed to be thinking of all possibilities

[rizky_biznezz]

i havent been quiet the whole game... fairly sure i have posted more than you benga but u have suddenly stepped up ur posting since rose called ya scummy

[madmitch]

I have bee lost on this game for quite a while. have no ideal who's who now,just pick someone and I will be glad to hammer

[Ragian]

@TWR -- im not sure who i would pick between deg and rish but im also not sure if we can ignore it.....

and that is the key. if we trust the definer and it is wrong and both deg and rish are lynched on the strength of it, then it is game over. So that is the first key question we must decide, whether to trust this or not. we cannot afford to lynch 2 more townies.....we could possibly afford to lynch benga or ragian, if either flipped scum, we reject the definer, if they flip town, then we choose between deg and rish tomorrow, but we would have to get it right tomorrow. The added advantage of lynching benga is that if he flips town, then we can safely lynch ragian and clear deg and rish as confirmed townies.

This is hilarious. We can't afford to lynch two townies so we should lynch two townies.

This borders on the absurd.

@rizky, say you were forced to pick between Rish and Deg. Whom would you choose?

[rizky_biznezz]

i think it will probably still end in rish or deg so i will pick one im just not sure who yet...

@ragian why have you been so sure of benga being town from the start... is it just because he town read you?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Vote Count

Rish (2) - players, benga
No lynch (1) - rish

8 to lynch. Deadline monday 29th 12:00 CC time

[the white rose]

@TWR -- im not sure who i would pick between deg and rish but im also not sure if we can ignore it.....

and that is the key. if we trust the definer and it is wrong and both deg and rish are lynched on the strength of it, then it is game over. So that is the first key question we must decide, whether to trust this or not. we cannot afford to lynch 2 more townies.....we could possibly afford to lynch benga or ragian, if either flipped scum, we reject the definer, if they flip town, then we choose between deg and rish tomorrow, but we would have to get it right tomorrow. The added advantage of lynching benga is that if he flips town, then we can safely lynch ragian and clear deg and rish as confirmed townies.

This is hilarious. We can't afford to lynch two townies so we should lynch two townies.

This borders on the absurd.

@rizky, say you were forced to pick between Rish and Deg. Whom would you choose?

mate, you are digging a hole for yourself. I said if we lynch benga and find he is scum, then we reject the definer, if he flips town, as you claim then we do not lynch you, but go back to deciding between deg and rish. in effect it gives us two chances, we can check the validity of the definer by lynching benga, and still have time to lynch deg or rish, if on the other hand we lynch deg find he is town so then lynch rish and find he is town also, then it would be game over, we do not get a second chance.

I would have promoted this on D4, but i was too busy then to examine the game as closely as i am able to do right now,

I am not saying that you are scum, just that either deg or rish are scum.....or.....you and benga are scum

I am leaning on you and benga for 2 reasons.

1. you are defending benga, but cannot possibly know whether he is scum or not, unless you are his scum buddy.

2. Benga's illogical use of the gifts, ie using bulletproof on D3 and cop investigation on N2, makes no sense at all unless he is preparing an excuse for explaining why his cop check was wrong...ie could have been bus driven, if he investigated you daytime and it turns out wrong, he must also be scum

[Ragian]

i think it will probably still end in rish or deg so i will pick one im just not sure who yet...

@ragian why have you been so sure of benga being town from the start... is it just because he town read you?

It is because his checks made sense to me. His play has also made sense to me. I can't know for sure. I can't check people or vet people or whatever. Mistrusting everyone all the time will get us nowhere fast.

@TWR, alright, son. Do what you do best.

vote Deg

*drops whiskey on ground for Storr*

[benga]

i havent been quiet the whole game... fairly sure i have posted more than you benga but u have suddenly stepped up ur posting since rose called ya scummy

er what?, isn't it the other way around, also what is your exact contribution?

Benga your gift is indeed from me. You aren't being manipulated. It was mentioned that I should do one that should be used on me so I can try to verify if I'm just insane or completely goofy inventor.

Storr's death was probably tied to giving his life force to our raised insane cop and having them go down together.

Someone gave me a gift last night, but I'm not able to use it. If it's not Ragian, then we have someone lying about their ability.

Benga I'll be messaging Dakky and find out why all of a sudden you can't use my gift during the day when every other invention I did was able to be done then.

I got an item stating it's from mafia, initially I thought someone slipped me this item to make more of case on you, but now you are doing it alone


vote rish, he jailed storr and before that wing

others I presume to be scum are /, player, dj, rizky

[Metsfanmax]

I am not saying that you are scum, just that either deg or rish are scum.....or.....you and benga are scum

No! Benga flipping scum does not imply that Ragian is scum. If Benga is scum, he could just as easily have picked someone he knew is town and 'cleared' them as a way to build town cred, as opposed to fake 'clearing' a scum buddy. Early game especially, that would even be a smart play, because there were other investigative roles around that could have confirmed/disconfirmed the result on Ragian.

[rizky_biznezz]

@benga sorry I didn't really take that seriously u didn't even give any reasons for me or the others...

Can u remind me why u voted PT with a weak excuse during night phase when u knew u would be able to investigate and get information?

[the white rose]

I am not saying that you are scum, just that either deg or rish are scum.....or.....you and benga are scum

No! Benga flipping scum does not imply that Ragian is scum. If Benga is scum, he could just as easily have picked someone he knew is town and 'cleared' them as a way to build town cred, as opposed to fake 'clearing' a scum buddy. Early game especially, that would even be a smart play, because there were other investigative roles around that could have confirmed/disconfirmed the result on Ragian.

yes you are right, was just coming on to post the same.

regian could have chosen poorly when giving his gift to benga.

benga could be scum and making up the 1 in 3 is scum.....the more i think about that the more i like it.

ragian, can i ask you, what exactly did you create the definer to do?

[Ragian]

Alright, son, here's the whole bloody story:

Streaker and Dakky made this game for us to have fun. Now, while some are trying to deflate any fun balloons out there, some are still trying to have fun. When they game me the role PM, they asked for "inventions"; i.e. creativity. I correspond with them each night to see if my inventions are in order. I am trying to be creative rather than just reusing what's already available in mafia games. Quickly, however, I have found that most things I can think of are actual roles within mafia as a game already, so I have resorted to add quirks and stories to my inventions in order to get the creative element out that way. Obviously, I can't just make an invention that kills or exposes all scum, so I'm trying to invent things that would make life easier for town.

As you may already have guessed, the Alignment Definer works sort of like a one-shot dreamer, but not exactly like it's described on the Epic Mafia site. With the Alignment Definer, I described the invention as a prototype of a device that enables its user to define a randomly chosen group's alignment. In the story, I put how the end goal is to refine the Definer to accurately pick out scum every time, but also wrote that I had not been able to create such a device just yet. Therefore, the Alignment Definer will show three players, one of which will be scum.

I.e. I created the Definer to help Benga give us guidelines (chosen by the mods) as to who might be scum.

[AladdinSane]

I have bee lost on this game for quite a while. have no ideal who's who now,just pick someone and I will be glad to hammer

I want to float an idee: Linch Mitch. Teh rashonale is to buy a day for Town in order to investimagate moor before linching deg or Rish. Where getting to teh point wear evry vote will be inportent, and under those condishuns we cant afford to have a loose canon like Mitch voting. We know we cant twust him to vote pro-Town after he screwed Wing on there deel. If we linch Mitch today we buy time to get maybe new invenchuns dat cood help us make a good dezizyun between linch Rish or Deg D6, or neither.

Mitch is prob jester or (moor likely I tink), survivor of sum sort - dat wood eggsplain why he was keen enuff to stay in teh game to offer Wing his vote wen it became aparent we wernt goin to linch him. But we shoodent care if he wins alongside us or not - wot we shood care about is taking his vote out of teh game and buying time. He is very unlikely to be Town, and if he IS Town, he has played verry verry porely.

So, teh plan wood be: linch Mitch D5; Ragian and (fwiw) LSU TJ invent stuff to help us on teh Rish/Deg issue and send dem out N5.. Dey get used D6 and we're hopefuly in a posishun to know wot to do re: dese two at teh end of teh day.

I'll witdraw my vote if sumwun comes up wit a reeson why dis plans sucks (I'm kind of tired rite now, been traveling orl day), but fer now:

VOTE MITCH

[the white rose]

not sure, it would buy us more time i guess, but even if mitch is as we suspect a harmless 3p, we could lose his potential vote which could be useful in later game when we get to lylo

think i will go along with the majority there. if thats what others want, i will support it