AOS: Orient Express 1883 [quench'd]

[porkenbeans]

I do not know why you used that example. Your mountains look nothing like that. The main problem that you are having here is the fact thaat your mountains are in relief. That is you have used bevel and shading. They stick out like a sore thumb, and do not match the style of the rest of the map at all. If you are having trouble drawing "teepies", then maybe you could ask for help from another mapmaker, that has made ones for another map, that you think would fit.

IMO, oaktown is the master of mountains. He has a few different styles, and all of them are spectacular. I would hit him up for some guidance here.

[natty dread]

Porkenbeans, you should know by now that I have huge issues with outsourcing my graphics.

[porkenbeans]

Porkenbeans, you should know by now that I have huge issues with outsourcing my graphics.

Well, if you do not want to accept help from anyone, maybe you could at least go check out some of oaks various mountain styles. Maybe you might see something, that at least gives you an idea of your own.

FYI, the mountains on this map as, they look now is like a child's crayon scribbles, on the Mona Lisa. Sorry to be so blunt, it's just that you really have a nice map going on here. But, it is totally being ruined by those hideous looking mountains. If you can not see that, then I think that you must have blinders on.

Also, why would you accept help when it comes to GP, but not GFX. From where I see your talent lying, I would think that it would be the other way around.

One more thing, Why is it that, you say my suggestion about the contrast between the land and water is a bad idea, then adopt that very idea, 2 weeks later, without any acknowledgment, or thanks ?

[natty dread]

Also, why would you accept help when it comes to GP, but not GFX. From where I see your talent lying, I would think that it would be the other way around.

Are you implying something about my graphics skills now?

One more thing, Why is it that, you say my suggestion about the contrast between the land and water is a bad idea, then adopt that very idea, 2 weeks later, without any acknowledgment, or thanks ?

Ugh... I didn't really consider your feelings on the matter. I can be kinda inconsiderate like that. For what it's worth, thanks. You know I'm reluctant to really touch the graphics too much while the map is in the GP shop, but once it goes up to graphics and I start fully working out the graphics, things just kida happen, you know? The same way they did with lunar war, the moment I got GP stamp I spent 8 hours straight redoing the graphics and the result was something quite different from what I had in the GP shop. The same thing applies here: after GP stamp I just started tweaking the graphics, and things kinda happened from there: I found a whole new graphical direction for this map for which the darker ocean was more appropriate.

I also have a bad habit when it comes to mapmaking... someone gives a suggestion, I may initially disagree with it and say "no, ain't gonna happen" then later when I'm alone with my graphics software I decide to give it a try anyway and then I eventually end up doing it anyway. I'm not doing it on purpose, or to insult anyone or anything, it just kinda happens.

It's kinda like the perfect graphics already exist on some metaphysical level, and they just use me and my graphics software as a medium to manifest themselves in actual reality.

[natty dread]

5am mountains

Click image to enlarge.

I know I know they're crap and they suck and durrr.

[Industrial Helix]

Well... one option comes to mind: do away with the mountains. What business do mountains have being on a train map? But then you've got to re-evaluate gameplay, ect. Not the best idea but an option.

Or something a little more hand-drawn like on this map: http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/asia/Asia1899.JPG

Draw the moutains like that and then use the color to go around the base of the mountains to illustrate their impassability.

[natty dread]

Well... one option comes to mind: do away with the mountains. What business do mountains have being on a train map? But then you've got to re-evaluate gameplay, ect. Not the best idea but an option.

Eh... sorry but no. That's a cop-out if I've ever heard of one: "I have trouble drawing the mountains so I'm just going to change the gameplay so I don't need to draw them at all..." I'm generally a bit opposed to solutions that create more problems than they solve.

Or something a little more hand-drawn like on this map: http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/asia/Asia1899.JPG

Hmm, yeah, I like that. I'll try to replicate something like that.

Meanwhile, I'd like some input on the issue I raised before all this hubbub about the mountains sprang up on me:

Currently I'm a bit worried about the austro-hungary & servia train bonuses. I mean if you hold Servia & MN, Belgrade and the A-H train stations, you'll be getting a total of +7 for holding 5 territories which seems a bit much for me.

I'm not sure if I should wait for beta-testing and fix it then or should I fix it now?

The best solution would probably be to make the A-H & Servia-MN train monopolies non-cumulative, ie. you only get the higher one.

[porkenbeans]

Well... one option comes to mind: do away with the mountains. What business do mountains have being on a train map? But then you've got to re-evaluate gameplay, ect. Not the best idea but an option.

Or something a little more hand-drawn like on this map: http://www.mapsorama.com/maps/asia/Asia1899.JPG

Draw the moutains like that and then use the color to go around the base of the mountains to illustrate their impassability.

Those mountains are similar to the ones in that example that natty put up before. Something like that might look cool. Yeah, we all know that mountains are the biggest roadblock on most maps. They can make you pull your hair out.

I thought that this GP has already passed. I would not worry about making any changes in that respect right now. Just button up these graphics, and kick it up the line. There will be plenty of time later for any GP tweaks.

[natty dread]

mntn updt

Click image to enlarge.

[porkenbeans]

While this IS an improvement, I still think that they would fit better, if they were NOT in relief. I really like that the land and the circles, are the only elements that are in relief. I think that, like the tracks and the rest, the mountains should remain flat. It is a very clean look. And, it is one of the reasons that I like this map. The graphics on this project are the best that I have seen from you. The mountains are the only thing, that I do NOT like.

[natty dread]

Well to be honest... a certain amount of "popping-upness" is necessary for the mountains to make them noticeable enough for impassables. I have reduced the emboss-shading as much as possible without making the mountains fade to background too much.

Besides, who's to say the mountains aren't just drawn on the map so that they appear reliefed...

One thing I'd like feedback on: is switzerland too similar to france in colour?

[porkenbeans]

Well to be honest... a certain amount of "popping-upness" is necessary for the mountains to make them noticeable enough for impassables. I have reduced the emboss-shading as much as possible without making the mountains fade to background too much.

Besides, who's to say the mountains aren't just drawn on the map so that they appear reliefed...

One thing I'd like feedback on: is switzerland too similar to france in colour?

No, but you could switch Switz. with Servia if you think that would help.

[natty dread]

you could switch Switz. with Servia if you think that would help.

Hm, will consider it.

Meanwhile more mntn twk.

Click image to enlarge.

I think this is actually as close as I can get to the mountain style of the map IH posted. Compare:

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

XML update: http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/2/7/2 ... ientx3.xml

[RedBaron0]

Agreed, switch Swiss and Servia.

[natty dread]

Agreed, switch Swiss and Servia.

Well you posted this while I was updating the map so I am happy to announce this has already been done.

I also brought the small map up to date and did some other little stuff which we can argue about later, so this calls for a new version number which is 14.

Click image to enlarge.

[Industrial Helix]

Remove the bevel from the mountains?

And perhaps you could desaturate A-H and Servia a tad.

Out of curiosity, why is it called Servia rather than the more common Serbia?

[natty dread]

Remove the bevel from the mountains?

There's no bevel in the mountains. None. Only a texture I made. I like how they are now, they fit with the map style and do not look too 3-dimensional. I don't think there's actually anything more I can do to them that wouldn't just make them worse.

And perhaps you could desaturate A-H and Servia a tad.

May I remind you good sire, that there is this nefarious thing called colourblindness... I'll see what I can do but don't be too disappointed if it can't be done.

Out of curiosity, why is it called Servia rather than the more common Serbia?

Sigh... it's the 3rd time this comes up. Servia was the old english name for Serbia. As far as I can tell it was still used in 1883. Granted, I only have anecdotal evidence of this, but unless anyone can show me some proof that the name Servia was not used in 1883 I'm keeping it as it is.

[natty dread]

Ok, I did some tweaking with the colours - couldn't change them much though, I tried making them less saturated but then A-H and Ottoman practically disappeared. So I hope this is adequate.

Click image to enlarge.

ps. colourblind test still checks out. Swiss & Servia may look a bit alike to the colourblind, but hey, those countries can be identified by the territory names so I don't think it really matters...

[natty dread]

Hmm. I'm not sure about the circle of land as a background for the impassables legend. It seemed like a good idea at the time but now it kinda seems like it's stealing attention from the land monopoly legend...

[porkenbeans]

Remove the bevel from the mountains?

And perhaps you could desaturate A-H and Servia a tad.

Out of curiosity, why is it called Servia rather than the more common Serbia?

The bevel effect is being caused by drop and/or inner shadow. Just turn them both off, and see what it looks like. They are beginning to look like they belong.

Yes, A-H are more neon than the rest. Play around with the hue till they match the saturation levels of the other regions.

[porkenbeans]

Hmm. I'm not sure about the circle of land as a background for the impassables legend. It seemed like a good idea at the time but now it kinda seems like it's stealing attention from the land monopoly legend...

If you want you could move the impasse legend down, and just put it in next to the two legends at the bottom. There is enough room if you squeeze out the empty space in them. Your signature would fit nicely in its place.

One more thing that you might want to try-
Switch places between the train and 1883. I think that it would look much better. Or just flip the train horizontally. It may even look nicer if you put a white stroke on it as well, to match the rest of the title, and help it to stand out more. It would not be bad if it was taller, and covered the title text a bit.

You could even enlarge the train and put the 1883 on the train itself, as if part of the trains markings would be. Like under the cab windows, or across the boiler. Then just center up the train along with, and slightly over the title.

[natty dread]

The bevel effect is being caused by drop and/or inner shadow. Just turn them both off, and see what it looks like. They are beginning to look like they belong.

I'm sorry but there's no drop shadow or inner shadow. For that matter, paint.net doesn't even support layer styles/layer effects, each layer only has opacity & blend mode.

Yes, A-H are more neon than the rest. Play around with the hue till they match the saturation levels of the other regions.

Well, let me quote myself -

I did some tweaking with the colours - couldn't change them much though, I tried making them less saturated but then A-H and Ottoman practically disappeared. So I hope this is adequate.

If you want you could move the impasse legend down, and just put it in next to the two legends at the bottom. There is enough room if you squeeze out the empty space in them. Your signature would fit nicely in its place.

I'll see what I can do. Not sure if it fits without making it all cluttered & crowded, but I'll try it.

One more thing that you might want to try-
Switch places between the train and 1883. I think that it would look much better. Or just flip the train horizontally.

I'm afraid I have to say no to this as well. When I was making the title I tried various configurations of the elements (text, year, train) and this was the most aesthetically balanced solution. The words "Orient" and "Express" leave a gap which is perfect for the exhaust pipe of the train, and the year goes naturally on the right side of it - the other way around both the year and the train would be squeezed to the left side which would disturb the balance of the title.

[natty dread]

You could even enlarge the train and put the 1883 on the train itself, as if part of the trains markings would be. Like under the cab windows, or across the boiler. Then just center up the train along with, and slightly over the title.

Hmm, this might actually be a decent idea. I'll see if I still have the original size locomotive somewhere (enlargening bitmap graphics isn't really a good idea.)

[natty dread]

Something like this...

Click image to enlarge.

Mountains: managed to tweak them somewhat, they should be good now.

Impassable legend: moved to lower legend.

Title: tried the big train thing, didn't look good, will keep the current one.