Moderator: Community Team
Does Andy Reid get credit for the Eagles defense in the 2000s or does Jim Johnson?oVo wrote:Why? Because he's the Head Coach and has the final say
in what goes. There's a stack of coaches involved which
also includes Offensive & Defensive Coordinators, but...
it's the Head Coach who takes the blame for successes
and failures of the team.
Tough week. 6-7 (with a missed game). 87-56 overall.Timminz wrote:Pittsburgh @ Cleveland
Tampa Bay @ Detroit
Minnesota @ Green Bay
San Diego @ Kansas City
Chicago @ St. Louis
Carolina @ Miami
New York Jets @ Baltimore
Jacksonville @ Houston
Tennessee @ Oakland
Indianapolis @ Arizona
Dallas @ New York Giants
Denver @ New England
San Francisco @ Washington
I don't think you're responding to my point. You seem to be making reference to various defensive coaches and offensive players or to successful coaches generally. That's not my issue. My issue has nothing to do with giving Belicheck the credit for the Patriots' success as a team; it has to do with giving him credit for the Patriots' offensive success.oVo wrote:Andy Reid gets credit where it's due, his Eagles with Donovan McNabb made a lot of playoff runs and reached a Super Bowl. The Chiefs big turn around this year with Alex Smith under center will also get Andy big accolades.
Vince Lombardy & Bart Starr, Weeb Ewbank & Johnny Unitas, Chuck Noll & Terry Bradshaw, John Madden & Ken Stabler, Marv Levy & Jim Kelly, Jimmy Johnson & Troy Aikman and of course Bill Belicheck & Tom Brady will always be linked.
Ben Roethlisberger, Cowher & Tomlin
I think that says it all, and I suspect Bill makes significant contributionsthegreekdog wrote:[...] possibly one of the best head coaches in history.
thegreekdog wrote:I don't think you're responding to my point. You seem to be making reference to various defensive coaches and offensive players or to successful coaches generally. That's not my issue. My issue has nothing to do with giving Belicheck the credit for the Patriots' success as a team; it has to do with giving him credit for the Patriots' offensive success.oVo wrote:Andy Reid gets credit where it's due, his Eagles with Donovan McNabb made a lot of playoff runs and reached a Super Bowl. The Chiefs big turn around this year with Alex Smith under center will also get Andy big accolades.
Vince Lombardy & Bart Starr, Weeb Ewbank & Johnny Unitas, Chuck Noll & Terry Bradshaw, John Madden & Ken Stabler, Marv Levy & Jim Kelly, Jimmy Johnson & Troy Aikman and of course Bill Belicheck & Tom Brady will always be linked.
Ben Roethlisberger, Cowher & Tomlin
When Brian Dawkins made an interception on a well-timed blitz, the camera went to Jim Johnson, defensive coordinator for the Eagles and gave Johnson deserved accolades. When Tom Brady throws a touchdown pass, the camera should pan to the offensive coordinator of the Pats, not to Belicheck. This is my point. Belicheck is not an offensive mastermind. He is a defensive mastermind and possibly one of the best head coaches in history. Stop giving him credit for being an offensive mastermind too.
Holy shit that was a bad week: 5-9Lootifer wrote: Saints@Falcons
Jets@Ravens ... Its their win week
Steelers@Browns ... Steelers form to continue?
Panthers@Dolphins
Bears@Rams
Buccs@Lions
Vikings@Packers ... Rodgers maybe back
Jaguars@Texans
Chargers@Chiefs
Colts@Cardinals
Titans@Raiders
Cowboys@Giants
Broncos@Patriots
49ers@Redskins
89-57 to-date.Timminz wrote:Packers @ Lions
Raiders @ Cowboys
Steelers @ Ravens
I went 6-7-1 on that week which brings me up to 106-68-1 for the season overall.NO
CHI
PIT
DET
MIN- tie
KC
CAR
NYJ
HOU
TEN
ARI
NYG
DEN
SF
I would argue that if you didn't pick a tie, you picked wrong, and so should count it as an incorrect pick.Crazyirishman wrote:I went 6-7-1 on that week which brings me up to 106-68-1 for the season overall.NO
CHI
PIT
DET
MIN- tie
KC
CAR
NYJ
HOU
TEN
ARI
NYG
DEN
SF
I suppose you could but it's sort of moot point, since it affects everyone the same. So however it is credited is the same all across the board. It could also just be dumped from the stats, since it isn't actually a loss either.Timminz wrote:I would argue that if you didn't pick a tie, you picked wrong, and so should count it as an incorrect pick.
If I had to divide credit, by percentages, for who gets credit for the Patriots' offensive success, Belichick would be in the low double digits (the teens or twenties). Belichick hired the offensive coordinator and assistant coaches (Charlie Weiss, Josh McDaniels, etc.). He did not draft Tom Brady. He did not develop the offensive game plan. He does not call the plays or run the offense and he barely pays attention to the offense in any event. Giving him credit for the offensive success of the Patriots (to the point of calling him an offensive genius) is absurd. He definitely doesn't get a good portion of the credit, he should have the lowest percentage in fact, and I'm hardly an idiot (at least when it comes to football). Did you know, for example, that the Patriots essentially run an offense developed in the 1970s?Army of GOD wrote:tgd, I think a lot of a head coach's success is dependent on circumstance. You have the period where Belichick sucked with the Browns, and then the last 10+ years where the Pats are arguably the best offensive team each year. I think Belichick got pretty lucky with Brady turning out to be a top 3 all-timer, but saying that he doesn't get a good portion of the credit is a bit idiotic. I don't know how much of hte offense is his input and how much is Josh McI'm a piece of shitDaniels, but he is the one who hired McDaniels, so there's that.
Also, yes, I give Reid a lot, if not most, of the credit for the Chiefs' defense being hella better.
But that's the problem with all of this...I mean Mike Shannahan, even after the Elway Super Bowls, was a very good coach for a long time (I know first hand as a Broncos fan). Now Shanny can't even get a winning record in Washington.
It's difficult judging people affialiated with sports and their impact, especially head coaches. Like, was Matt Cassell really good in '08 or did the system allow him to be really good? How can Chip Kelly do so much better with the Eagles with essentially the same roster yet Reid had like 4 wins last year? And I still can't figure out if Tom Coughlin is a good coach or not...
Timminz wrote:89-57 to-date.Timminz wrote:Packers @ Lions
Raiders @ Cowboys
Steelers @ Ravens
89-56-1 to-date
Jaguars@Browns
Buccs@Panthers
Bears@Vikings
Patriots@Texans
Titans@Colts
Dolphins@Jets
Cardinals@Eagles
Falcons@Bills
Rams@49ers
Bengals@Chargers
Broncos@Chiefs
Giants@Redskins
Saints@Seahawks
saxitoxin wrote:Serbia is a RUDE DUDE
may not be a PRUDE, but he's gotta 'TUDE
might not be LEWD, but he's gonna get BOOED
RUDE
