US attack on Iraqis, intentional?

[Phatscotty]

The situation sucks, but it is what it is.

what a charmingly shitty opinion.

There is no easy answer to the bigger problem and because of that, innocent lives will be lost.

there is a very easy answer, america needs to exit iraq immediately, and every other country we illegally occupy too

[MegasWoman]

Why don't y'all enlist since you are such war experts-and go over there and show them how it's done? Probably because while they are doing their JOB and making split second life/death decisions, you would be hitting the ground calling "MOMMY". We don't want them there...I'm sure THEY don't want to be there but until someone pull their head out and brings them home-they don't have a choice and they do what they have to do.

[jefjef]

The situation sucks, but it is what it is.

what a charmingly shitty opinion.

There is no easy answer to the bigger problem and because of that, innocent lives will be lost.

there is a very easy answer, america needs to exit iraq immediately, and every other country we illegally occupy too

Your right. Lets just rebuild the twin towers and let em all have a go at it again and turn the other cheek every time they do.

Lets leave the Saddams and Osamas to do what they do and turn the other cheek.

Your right. We should let those who would destroy every one of us do as they please.

[THORNHEART]

You prove my point...your basing all your info of a short video...NOT the loads of intel and date that the soldiers and their command structure process.

Also if you would read the article you would realize that a battle had been going on for some time.

You would think one would be willing to give the benifit of the doubt to the real soldiers fighting for freedom NOT the terrorists...BUT this is just another attempt to make our soldiers look bad when we are in fact the most cautious army in the world about keeping citizens safe and such...its why we warn towns ahead of a attack on insurgents there..


and to those asking me did i watch the video es i did...I can clearly see ak 47s...and yes you can tell that at first thats not a rpg but thats only because you know its not because you were told...in the situation you assume since some guys have aks...the other thing is an rpg when the guy is hugging the wall...it looks pretty much like one you dont have much choice but to engage


i will admit the attack on the van was excessive

[Skittles!]

I haven't read this thread, but this video is REALLY old. I saw this a few years ago (maybe 2008, late 2007) on a friend's phone at SCHOOL. About time the media caught up.

[TheProwler]

And yet you deny seeing armed individuals.

that's because there weren't any bro

I just looked at the short video here: http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Watch from 3:42 until 3:46. The guys at the top of the screen. See the guy with the striped shit. Definitely a rifle. The guy beside him definitely is carrying a RPG; if you see him turn at around 3:45 it is clearly visible.

To deny that is just ridiculous.

there is a very easy answer, america needs to exit iraq immediately, and every other country we illegally occupy too

That isn't what this is about. This is about soldiers who have signed up to be soldiers to fight for your country. They have been deployed to Iraq and ordered to engage Iraqis who are carrying around weapons.

Do you seriously think soldiers have the authority to say "Hey, I disagree with our presence here, so I'm not gonna do my job."?? It doesn't work that way. The military follows direction given to it by the government. The government that you have elected.

I have no problem with anyone using this as an example of the brutality of the situation as a reason to push for a top-level change in policy. But to hold the soldiers responsible for decisions made by the government is not right. They are doing their job.

When I say "It is what it is" I mean from the perspective of the soldier and with regard to the scope of the situation we have seen in the video. You disagree with the military presence in Iraq. I am not arguing against that viewpoint. But the fact is that the military is there and when they are there, shit like that is going to happen. Fight for a change in your country's policies - fine. But don't condemn soldiers for doing their job while you and the rest of your countrymen make up your fucking minds.

[jefjef]

And yet you deny seeing armed individuals.

that's because there weren't any bro

I just looked at the short video here: http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Watch from 3:42 until 3:46. The guys at the top of the screen. See the guy with the striped shit. Definitely a rifle. The guy beside him definitely is carrying a RPG; if you see him turn at around 3:45 it is clearly visible.

To deny that is just ridiculous.

there is a very easy answer, america needs to exit iraq immediately, and every other country we illegally occupy too

That isn't what this is about. This is about soldiers who have signed up to be soldiers to fight for your country. They have been deployed to Iraq and ordered to engage Iraqis who are carrying around weapons.

Do you seriously think soldiers have the authority to say "Hey, I disagree with our presence here, so I'm not gonna do my job."?? It doesn't work that way. The military follows direction given to it by the government. The government that you have elected.

I have no problem with anyone using this as an example of the brutality of the situation as a reason to push for a top-level change in policy. But to hold the soldiers responsible for decisions made by the government is not right. They are doing their job.

When I say "It is what it is" I mean from the perspective of the soldier and with regard to the scope of the situation we have seen in the video. You disagree with the military presence in Iraq. I am not arguing against that viewpoint. But the fact is that the military is there and when they are there, shit like that is going to happen. Fight for a change in your country's policies - fine. But don't condemn soldiers for doing their job while you and the rest of your countrymen make up your fucking minds.

Well stated.

[TheProwler]

I watched that guy with the striped shirt at around 3:45 in the short video...he seems to see the chopper and then turns and puts the rifle into his left hand and then hides it behind his back as he walks to the building...you can clearly see his left arm is being held behind his back hiding the rifle as he walks at about 4:00.

[THORNHEART]

I watched that guy with the striped shirt at around 3:45 in the short video...he seems to see the chopper and then turns and puts the rifle into his left hand and then hides it behind his back as he walks to the building...you can clearly see his left arm is being held behind his back hiding the rifle as he walks at about 4:00.

yes we are not denying the reporters were killed...what i have been argueing all along is that they are in the company of terrorists...lol what do you think is gonna happen?

[SultanOfSurreal]

That isn't what this is about. This is about soldiers who have signed up to be soldiers to fight for your country. They have been deployed to Iraq and ordered to engage Iraqis who are carrying around weapons.

Do you seriously think soldiers have the authority to say "Hey, I disagree with our presence here, so I'm not gonna do my job."?? It doesn't work that way. The military follows direction given to it by the government. The government that you have elected.

I have no problem with anyone using this as an example of the brutality of the situation as a reason to push for a top-level change in policy. But to hold the soldiers responsible for decisions made by the government is not right. They are doing their job.

When I say "It is what it is" I mean from the perspective of the soldier and with regard to the scope of the situation we have seen in the video. You disagree with the military presence in Iraq. I am not arguing against that viewpoint. But the fact is that the military is there and when they are there, shit like that is going to happen. Fight for a change in your country's policies - fine. But don't condemn soldiers for doing their job while you and the rest of your countrymen make up your fucking minds.

anyone who joined the army after the invasion of iraq is scum who made a conscious decision to take part in the illegal occupation of another country. i am incrementally more forgiving towards those who were already enlisted before that but the only moral thing for any soldier currently in the united states armed forces to do is immediately desert.

They are doing their job.

this guy too

[TheProwler]

Guy in dark clothes with white hat at about 3:52 clearly transfers rifle from left hand to right hand at about 3:52...then motions with left hand while holding rifle straight with stiff right arm trying to hide rifle.

How can anyone try to say these guys weren't carrying weapons?

[THORNHEART]

Soooo...is there ever a war you would agree with sultan....I hope not cause then you would be biased against the usa...but if so then you obviously must call every soldier that joined after the war started scum..


did you really say EVERY soldier...how about the ones that didnt go to iraq...or the ones that joined for education or money or cause they were bored with life...your retarded

[THORNHEART]

Guy in dark clothes with white hat at about 3:52 clearly transfers rifle from left hand to right hand at about 3:52...then motions with left hand while holding rifle straight with stiff right arm trying to hide rifle.

How can anyone try to say these guys weren't carrying weapons?

they are not interested in facts...notice as soon as we prove weapons were there they go from screaming civilians to WE SHOULDNT BE THERE ANYWAYS

[SultanOfSurreal]

Soooo...is there ever a war you would agree with sultan

war is not a concept to be "agreed" or "disagreed" with you dumb canadian troll

did you really say EVERY soldier...how about the ones that didnt go to iraq...

they are still taking active part in an institution that daily commits war crimes. by aiding that institution they are abetting those crimes, directly or not.

or the ones that joined for education or money or cause they were bored with life...

i couldn't afford college either, but i managed to get in without murdering a single brown person

[TheProwler]

this guy too

You continue to try to make this an argument about something it is not an argument about.


Interesting choice though...a picture from WWII. I'm sure every American soldier would be happy to say "Okay, let's do it like WWII. You get all your soldiers over there and we'll get all our soldiers over here and we'll fight it out." But that isn't going to happen now, is it?


I disagree with your statement about "anyone who joined the army after the invasion of iraq is scum". There are a lot of proud Americans that, from a young age, plan to join the military to serve their country. And they place their trust in the country to guide them into righteous action. Maybe they are naive. Almost certainly they are naive. But that doesn't make them scum.

[SultanOfSurreal]

Interesting choice though...a picture from WWII. I'm sure every American soldier would be happy to say "Okay, let's do it like WWII. You get all your soldiers over there and we'll get all our soldiers over here and we'll fight it out." But that isn't going to happen now, is it?

i only chose a picture from world war ii because you're a mealy-mouthed fascist willing to defend every imaginable war crime up to an including genocide to avoid facing the fact that america's military is the single worst purveyor of violence in the world today

[jefjef]

Interesting choice though...a picture from WWII. I'm sure every American soldier would be happy to say "Okay, let's do it like WWII. You get all your soldiers over there and we'll get all our soldiers over here and we'll fight it out." But that isn't going to happen now, is it?

i only chose a picture from world war ii because you're a mealy-mouthed fascist willing to defend every imaginable war crime up to an including genocide to avoid facing the fact that america's military is the single worst purveyor of violence in the world today

You deny the fact that several of those people were armed. They were in an combat zone.

Enjoy this pic while you sit in safety calling our troops scum. Grab a mirror.

[TheProwler]

Soooo...is there ever a war you would agree with sultan

war is not a concept to be "agreed" or "disagreed" with you dumb canadian troll

I think it is clear that you disagree with America's military presence in Iraq. THORNHEART's assertion was clear. He was saying that he doesn't think there would ever be a war in which America was involved in that you would agree with their decision to participate.

He wasn't speaking of "Agreeing with war as a concept".

Why would you call him "dumb"?

i only chose a picture from world war ii because you're a mealy-mouthed fascist willing to defend every imaginable war crime up to an including genocide to avoid facing the fact that america's military is the single worst purveyor of violence in the world today

Oh really? I thought we were discussing one situation...you know...the one in the video. Forgive me if I have the ability to deal with situations "one at a time" and not force myself to staunchly "choose a side" and be blinded to any evidence that is contrary to my harden stance. Tell me again how the people in those videos weren't carry weapons. I love it when people tell me I was "seeing things".

[SultanOfSurreal]

well f*ck this totally justifies the unprovoked murder of two reporters, several unarmed civilians, and two children, in a completely different country with no involvement in this attack, six years after it happened

thank you for showing me the error of my ways

[oVo]

Video shows 'US attack' on Iraqis
It said the footage filmed from a helicopter cockpit shows a missile strike and shooting on a crowded square in a Baghdad neighbourhood in July 2007.

I've seen the video, it wasn't a crowded square and some of the people who came under attack were carrying weapons. Another reporter who was there says "you have to remember it was chaotic with firefights ongoing all over the area." US troops were under attack and engaged in constant firefights that day. In the video the gunship observes armed people on the ground and asks for permission repeatedly to fire... I only saw high caliber RPGs and not missiles used in the assault, but the people on the ground were seriously out gunned.

[Woodruff]

is where I'd fear for my life. A guy trying to hide himself around a corner, with a long object. And who knows how fast their blood was pumping, or what was going on in their minds, but they made the decision, and who are we to judge it?

Actually, we're the civilians that control our government that controls our military. We are precisely who SHOULD be judging it. They're there in our name. Now, don't equate "judging" with "finding guilty", please...but we absolutely should be judging it. In fact, that's the whole point of having civilian leadership over the military.

the soldiers were not watching in blurry black and white through a gunsight, they were watching in broad daylight with their own fucking eyes, and they should have been able to tell that there was no threat. and even allowing that they made an honest mistake, firing on van rescuing the wounded was a violation of rules of engagement and qualifies as a war crime of the worst kind. jesus christ you are stupid.

Do you know what the rules of engagement were at this point? I certainly don't, and I'd like to. I certainly haven't seen them listed anywhere.

The callous remarks by the gunner just demonstrates the mental state that most people would have to enter to do the job of killing other people. If he said "Shit, I think I just killed some kids. I'm an evil bastard." then he wouldn't be able to do his job.

No, that's simply not true. Do they have to become detached? Of course. But if they're so detached that they're reveling in having killed children that were not a threat (some children ARE a threat, sadly), then they MUST be removed from the situation.

anyone who joined the army after the invasion of iraq is scum who made a conscious decision to take part in the illegal occupation of another country. i am incrementally more forgiving towards those who were already enlisted before that but the only moral thing for any soldier currently in the united states armed forces to do is immediately desert.

This is quite frankly a disgusting statement that shows you for the sick individual that you are. You like to pretend you have a conscience and that you honestly feel for those who were attacked, but you don't...it's painfully clear that you just want to rail against a portion of society that, in your ignorance, you despise for being willing to do what you are too cowardly to do.

[SultanOfSurreal]

anyone who joined the army after the invasion of iraq is scum who made a conscious decision to take part in the illegal occupation of another country. i am incrementally more forgiving towards those who were already enlisted before that but the only moral thing for any soldier currently in the united states armed forces to do is immediately desert.

This is quite frankly a disgusting statement that shows you for the sick individual that you are. You like to pretend you have a conscience and that you honestly feel for those who were attacked, but you don't...it's painfully clear that you just want to rail against a portion of society that, in your ignorance, you despise for being willing to do what you are too cowardly to do.

i'm not too cowardly to murder unarmed brown people in the desert from the safety of a helicopter, it's just that i know it's wrong

[Woodruff]

anyone who joined the army after the invasion of iraq is scum who made a conscious decision to take part in the illegal occupation of another country. i am incrementally more forgiving towards those who were already enlisted before that but the only moral thing for any soldier currently in the united states armed forces to do is immediately desert.

This is quite frankly a disgusting statement that shows you for the sick individual that you are. You like to pretend you have a conscience and that you honestly feel for those who were attacked, but you don't...it's painfully clear that you just want to rail against a portion of society that, in your ignorance, you despise for being willing to do what you are too cowardly to do.

i'm not too cowardly to murder unarmed brown people in the desert from the safety of a helicopter, it's just that i know it's wrong

That statement is irrelevant to mine, as well as irrelevant to the statement I was responding to. Try again, coward.

[SultanOfSurreal]

That statement is irrelevant to mine, as well as irrelevant to the statement I was responding to. Try again, coward.

i'm not sure exactly what it is you're waiting for, but rest assured, you are certainly wrong about whatever the f*ck it is you're talking about

[Woodruff]

That statement is irrelevant to mine, as well as irrelevant to the statement I was responding to. Try again, coward.

i'm not sure exactly what it is you're waiting for, but rest assured, you are certainly wrong about whatever the f*ck it is you're talking about

Yeah, I figured you'd see how utterly ignorant your assertion was once you looked at it closely. Thanks for admitting it.