Would you flip the switch?

[jay_a2j]

If you were ordered to kill your entire family, would you? Orders ? Yeah, bite me.

Would you support a government and an economic policy that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide, from hunger, various diseases, and outright murder, that could largely be minimized, if only to provide yourself with some marginally better creature comforts?

Why are you trying to bait me? My support for the USA ends at any point they violate the laws of God. But not to worry, there isn't one that doesn't.

[targetman377]

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

notice the bold parts. If you truly are sitting there to flip a switch to launch one and you receive orders to launch they are going to be from the President. And as for that there is more than one person you confirms the authentic and also a cabinet member has to agree with the presidents order And in the situation being described you would not be at fault the president would be. Also no president would launch one with out first being attacked by one or being on the brink of losing a war!

[targetman377]

Alright, target. For the sake of arguments: The government does not give you the order of 'kill your family'. Rather this situation happens:

You are sitting in the chair, key ready. The order comes in to launch, where you say you will not hesitate 1 second.
Here is the interesting part: Your family is on the other side. You know that launching that missile will nuke the country where your family is living.
The order would imply that you kill your family.

Still no hesitation?

As for me, IF I were in such a position, I'd probably do it. You won't even get there if you aren't able/ willing. If it's a moral dilemma, then ofcourse i would NOT do it. Who in his right mind would kill millions and millions of people, while starting the next world war?

You do pose an interesting question however. I would be trained to follow that order and weather or not i follow it someone else will take my place. As for your senior do you think that an immigrant who had a family in a country we are are at war with would be sitting behind our nuclear arsenal? NO they may still be fighting but that would be a huge problem and the brass would fix that?

[targetman377]

If you were ordered to kill your entire family, would you? Orders ? Yeah, bite me.

Would you support a government and an economic policy that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide, from hunger, various diseases, and outright murder, that could largely be minimized, if only to provide yourself with some marginally better creature comforts?

Why are you trying to bait me? My support for the USA ends at any point they violate the laws of God. But not to worry, there isn't one that doesn't.

Yet the laws of God do not protect you from worshiping the God of your choice in the manner of your choice. The laws of AMERICA DO!

[jay_a2j]

Also no president would launch one with out first being attacked by one or being on the brink of losing a war!

Boy you don't know history. Japan never launched one at us and we were NOT on the "brink" of losing that war.

[jay_a2j]

If you were ordered to kill your entire family, would you? Orders ? Yeah, bite me.

Would you support a government and an economic policy that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide, from hunger, various diseases, and outright murder, that could largely be minimized, if only to provide yourself with some marginally better creature comforts?

Why are you trying to bait me? My support for the USA ends at any point they violate the laws of God. But not to worry, there isn't one that doesn't.

Yet the laws of God do not protect you from worshiping the God of your choice in the manner of your choice. The laws of AMERICA DO!

ROFL! There are no laws above the laws of God. And I will adhere to His before bowing to a lesser law.

[targetman377]

i hope you all never join the army

And I hope you are never ordered to kill your family.

why would i be ordered to do that? We live in America i know how much u conspiracy people think the government is out to get everyone. when in reality the government does not care or take that much interest in your life. And if i was ordered to kill my family there would be good reason and would be told about it in my bribing. Yes it would still be hard i would most likely warn them BUT SEEING as how my family are all citizens of this country they have RIGHTS!!! and must be TRIALED IN COURT!!!! EVEN IF your not a citizen you still have rights!!1 The government does not go around killing it's citizens. Do you honestly believe that they would even give me that order? Every herd of conflict of interest? (this is if the government did kill my family) WHY THE HELL WOULD THEY PICK ME TO CARRY IT OUT. your statement is false and just plain dumb on so many different levels.

So, in essence you are saying the the people you are launching nukes at DON'T have rights? Because YOU don't know them personally you couldn't give a damn what happens to them. That THOSE people do not have families of their own, they do not have people who care about them but yet YOUR precious family is somehow superior to them. So much so that you could "nuke" em.






Got it.
What how did you get that from that? i meant if i was ordered to kill them! why would i be launching a nuke just to kill my family. so your saying America uses it's nukes to kill family it dislikes? They do have rights. however When you are in the army you do not have the same rights as a Citizen (You can call this a good thing or a bad thing) But it is true. And again I have the out most respect for the service man and the job they do defending our great country. For that matter any Solider of any Nation they are supporting there country in the most honorably way. I never said my family was supier however mine might be if the united states wanted ME to launch a NUKE on my family. see as how they live in 3 cities around Minnesota all far enough away i would launch 3 killing all the people in the twin cities and heck one lives near Rochester. oh and are we killing my extended family cause then i get to launch 3 more in Wisconsin, 2 in Florida, 1 in Milwaukee, i got family that lives in Indianapolis, and ALASKA!!!! (that's a joke cause no country would wast that many nukes on one family especially think of the collateral damage on it's citizens.

[targetman377]

Also no president would launch one with out first being attacked by one or being on the brink of losing a war!

Boy you don't know history. Japan never launched one at us and we were NOT on the "brink" of losing that war.

what NO WAY!!!!!! wow thank you for that information I guess it's good i am a history major than . YES I know we did maybe you should watch some of the documentaries and the interviews with the soldiers that flew enola gay. I was referring to present conditions. But even in history i do recall us fight the Japanese for a good 4 years and they just would not surrender and we lost more people then they did in the bombings.

[targetman377]

Yet the laws of God do not protect you from worshiping the God of your choice in the manner of your choice. The laws of AMERICA DO!

ROFL! There are no laws above the laws of God. And I will adhere to His before bowing to a lesser law.

I agree with you Gods laws are of a higher authority to those that choice to believe in your God! however there are many different Gods and mere mortal laws protect you form being forced to worship a god you do not believe in and also protect you from the use of violence against worshipers of different faiths. DAM humans always trying to trump Gods law

[pimpdave]

I think we really need THORNHEART to weigh in on this. Where's he been? And how would he use his pinpoint accuracy to flip the switch?

[jay_a2j]

however there are many different Gods...

X (buzzer sound) wrong.

[pimpdave]

Oh cool, now this is a debate about religion.

Again, THORNHEART and his pinpoint accuracy could be really useful here.

[thegreekdog]

I selected "I don't know" because I really don't know. Is it better to be decisive or indecisive? I think Theodore Roosevelt said something like the best thing you can do is act correctly, the second best thing you can do is act incorrectly, and the worst thing you can do is do nothing. I'm probably butchering that.

[natty dread]

however there are many different Gods...

X (buzzer sound) wrong.

So, Jay is saying that there are no gods at all? How fascinating!

THE DEBATE IS ÖVER!!!

[Woodruff]

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

notice the bold parts. If you truly are sitting there to flip a switch to launch one and you receive orders to launch they are going to be from the President. And as for that there is more than one person you confirms the authentic and also a cabinet member has to agree with the presidents order And in the situation being described you would not be at fault the president would be. Also no president would launch one with out first being attacked by one or being on the brink of losing a war!

Have you not read anything I've presented in this thread? Some of those quotes don't mean exactly what you seem to believe they do.

[Woodruff]

I selected "I don't know" because I really don't know. Is it better to be decisive or indecisive? I think Theodore Roosevelt said something like the best thing you can do is act correctly, the second best thing you can do is act incorrectly, and the worst thing you can do is do nothing. I'm probably butchering that.

Acting quickly (with critical thought) based on the information you have at the time is usually a better course than doing nothing in the hope that more information will come in.

[PLAYER57832]

I selected "I don't know" because I really don't know. Is it better to be decisive or indecisive? I think Theodore Roosevelt said something like the best thing you can do is act correctly, the second best thing you can do is act incorrectly, and the worst thing you can do is do nothing. I'm probably butchering that.

Exactly. Most of us can think of many situations where flipping the switch would be absolutely wrong, but most of us can also think of situations where it might be reasonable.

one example not brought up yet is a plague. It is possible that killing an entire region of people might, in some circumstances be the only way to save humanity, where even those people might (reluctantly) agree. The problem is surety. We can all imagine that esoterically, but what level of proof would we require.

For me, the level of proof is so high that by the time I realized it was necessary.. the opportunity might be past. And that is one example of why I am not in the military!

[jay_a2j]

however there are many different Gods...

X (buzzer sound) wrong.

So, Jay is saying that there are no gods at all? How fascinating!

THE DEBATE IS ÖVER!!!

No, I'm saying that there is one, not many.

[PLAYER57832]

If you were ordered to kill your entire family, would you? Orders ? Yeah, bite me.

Would you support a government and an economic policy that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide, from hunger, various diseases, and outright murder, that could largely be minimized, if only to provide yourself with some marginally better creature comforts?

Why are you trying to bait me? My support for the USA ends at any point they violate the laws of God. But not to worry, there isn't one that doesn't.

Hypocrite, you are, indeed, because over and over you do that very thing.. support the US no matter the impact to others. Oh, yes, and you support decreasing the size of government no matter the impact to God's creation.

[jay_a2j]

If you were ordered to kill your entire family, would you? Orders ? Yeah, bite me.

Would you support a government and an economic policy that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide, from hunger, various diseases, and outright murder, that could largely be minimized, if only to provide yourself with some marginally better creature comforts?

Why are you trying to bait me? My support for the USA ends at any point they violate the laws of God. But not to worry, there isn't one that doesn't.

Hypocrite, you are, indeed, because over and over you do that very thing.. support the US no matter the impact to others. Oh, yes, and you support decreasing the size of government no matter the impact to God's creation.

This site would lack in the comedy department if it were not for you PLAYER. I DO NOT support the US "no matter what". You think by putting words in people's mouths that somehow those words become true. WRONG AGAIN! And yes, I support decreasing the size of government, HAVE YOU READ THE NEWSPAPERS lately??????? Let's be clear on this point, ONLY SOCIALISTS are in favor of EXPANDING government! You and your ilk are EXACTLY the reason we fought against Britain. TOO much government control! You sicken me.

[AAFitz]

If you were ordered to kill your entire family, would you? Orders ? Yeah, bite me.

Would you support a government and an economic policy that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide, from hunger, various diseases, and outright murder, that could largely be minimized, if only to provide yourself with some marginally better creature comforts?

Why are you trying to bait me? My support for the USA ends at any point they violate the laws of God. But not to worry, there isn't one that doesn't.

Not baiting you at all. Its merely a hypothetical question asked for the purposes of provoking thought and suggesting a point. In this case, that allowing and enabling people to die, in many ways, akin to actually killing them.

I do however, not blame you avoiding real thought of such things. Such denial is necessary for many who claim to believe in the Bible, or its actual message, in order to live the actual lives of intolerance and hatred that they actually lead. Its just too bad that many do not realize it is that denial that is the root of most evil, they claim to fight against.

[AAFitz]

If you were ordered to kill your entire family, would you? Orders ? Yeah, bite me.

Would you support a government and an economic policy that directly resulted in the deaths of millions of people world wide, from hunger, various diseases, and outright murder, that could largely be minimized, if only to provide yourself with some marginally better creature comforts?

Why are you trying to bait me? My support for the USA ends at any point they violate the laws of God. But not to worry, there isn't one that doesn't.

Hypocrite, you are, indeed, because over and over you do that very thing.. support the US no matter the impact to others. Oh, yes, and you support decreasing the size of government no matter the impact to God's creation.

This site would lack in the comedy department if it were not for you PLAYER. I DO NOT support the US "no matter what". You think by putting words in people's mouths that somehow those words become true. WRONG AGAIN! And yes, I support decreasing the size of government, HAVE YOU READ THE NEWSPAPERS lately??????? Let's be clear on this point, ONLY SOCIALISTS are in favor of EXPANDING government! You and your ilk are EXACTLY the reason we fought against Britain. TOO much government control! You sicken me.

The problem is, you support the decrease in areas of government set up to actually help real people with real struggles.

You support the government which puts the majority of power into the hands of a small few, and take it away from the masses, which is the ACTUAL reason our founders fought against the British. You also do these things, in the interest of greed, which is completely contrary to the entire message of your declared God.

Your hypocricy saddens me, but I appreciate that you are only human, and prone to mistake and sin, and I simply pity your ignorance and inability to see the actual truth. The conservatives that merely crave money and power, at the expense of the common American, have done an excellent job, in conning many religious Americans, into abandoning the very core ideals and values of those religions. They have done so systematically, and with near infinite funding, so I do not blame you for such ignorance.

Make no mistake with your Revolutionary War reference: You represent the King and the Lords, and the Barons, in your reference, and Player is absolutely the champion against actual tyranny here. You've simply been fooled and corrupted into not seeing the situation for what it actually is, and that is why evil is so easily able to flourish.

[thegreekdog]

areas of government set up to actually help real people with real struggles.

I'm not sure this phrase is accurate. It's at least debatable whether the government has any of these programs.

[PLAYER57832]

areas of government set up to actually help real people with real struggles.

I'm not sure this phrase is accurate. It's at least debatable whether the government has any of these programs.

Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, nice roads, safe working conditions, limits to pollution, free education, etc, etc, etc.
That's even without getting into Welfare, food programs, work training programs, etc.

Care to try again?

[Woodruff]

areas of government set up to actually help real people with real struggles.

I'm not sure this phrase is accurate. It's at least debatable whether the government has any of these programs.

I'm stunned you would say this.