[CC 2010 Semis] TOFU vs KoRT [20-40 of 60]

[ljex]

OMG Kudos to Chuuuuck for sticking to the rules on this one. I think everyone hates to see this challenge end this way, but a rule is a rule. Damn shame. Good luck to KoRT against THOTA.

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

[Incandenza]

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

Replace "many" with "everyone" and you've struck at the heart of it.

[danryan]

OMG Kudos to Chuuuuck for sticking to the rules on this one. I think everyone hates to see this challenge end this way, but a rule is a rule. Damn shame. Good luck to KoRT against THOTA.

You can't be serious? All kidding aside, personally I wouldn't want to advance to the final in this manner. Worst case I'd say forfeit the extra game COF joined - that's penalty enough. In any case it's a bummer to have the war end in any way but a fight to the very last game.

[ljex]

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

Replace "many" with "everyone" and you've struck at the heart of it.

haha there will be those few players in kort who wont think of it as tainted

[ljex]

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

Replace "many" with "everyone" and you've struck at the heart of it.

haha there will be those few players in kort who wont think of it as tainted

[Incandenza]

I would imagine that there are even those in Kort that wouldn't want to advance this way.

[Chuuuuck]

It's a preposterous rule, and it's pretty well buried in the fine print. I'd really like to see some fair play from Kort on this one, especially since it seems like they instigated the whole thing with a "joke" that was in pretty poor taste given the circumstances.

CoF was well aware of the rule. If you go back to posts in the Conqueror's Cup thread on February 2nd he even asked directly what happens if a clan violates that rule. I answered him and pointed out that it was updated in the OP.

There was much discussion before the Cup ever started on rules and everything else. This is one of the rules discussed and no one argued it. So we proceeded with this rule.

The thought process on making the harsh punishment was that clan wars should be a reflection on the combined efforts of the clan and should not be led in a large amount of games by individual players.

Regardless of where I stand, or anyone else stands, in the argument now. The bottom line is this rule was discussed and posted for everyone to see before the tournament ever started and the tournament began with this rule in effect. I can not change it in hindsight of a violation. The only fair way for me, personally, to proceed is to follow the rules that were outlined before the violation occurred.

[elfish_lad]

Ouch.

I know that this is entirely unnecessary but I’m going to do it anyway. I just want to go on record as saying publicly that I’m proud to have CoF as our clan leader. Not only is he thorough, diligent and committed, he’s just a great guy to have as a leader. I’ve learned tones from him in the months I’ve been in the clan and I’m sure I’ll learn more in the months to come.

It’s a shame it has come to this. But such is life. Mistakes are made. I stand with my leader and my clan, rise or fall.

If it goes the way it looks to be going, good luck to KorT and THOTA and we’ll see ya in the pit in weeks to come.

Elf

[TheBro]

There are rules, and then there is judgment. Judgment: In hindsight, that is a stupid rule. Good luck KORT, prove you guys deserve to be there.

[Incandenza]

CoF was well aware of the rule. If you go back to posts in the Conqueror's Cup thread on February 2nd he even asked directly what happens if a clan violates that rule. I answered him and pointed out that it was updated in the OP.

There was much discussion before the Cup ever started on rules and everything else. This is one of the rules discussed and no one argued it. So we proceeded with this rule.

Still seems a bit odd that a map use violation results in a game forfeit, whereas a player violation results in essentially a challenge forfeit.

However, I suppose it does come down now to Kort. I would certainly encourage them to play out the challenge with the single game forfeit, if for no other reason than that this pretty damn anticipated challenge doesn't go down with an asterisk next to it.

[Ace Rimmer]

We'll be playing out the challenge. Hopefully we can win 32 so that this will always remain the most epic clan war ever.

[nikola_milicki]

We'll be playing out the challenge. Hopefully we can win 32 so that this will always remain the most epic clan war ever.

try with the most ridiculous would be kinda funny and sad at the same time if u win and lose the same challenge..

[trapyoung]

User Edit.

[jackal31]

Ouch.

I know that this is entirely unnecessary but I’m going to do it anyway. I just want to go on record as saying publicly that I’m proud to have CoF as our clan leader. Not only is he thorough, diligent and committed, he’s just a great guy to have as a leader. I’ve learned tones from him in the months I’ve been in the clan and I’m sure I’ll learn more in the months to come.

It’s a shame it has come to this. But such is life. Mistakes are made. I stand with my leader and my clan, rise or fall.

If it goes the way it looks to be going, good luck to KorT and THOTA and we’ll see ya in the pit in weeks to come.

Elf

edit : So youre saying that being the leader of the clan, he never took charge of keeping track of the games log too, and that no-one stepped up before it fell through the cracks?

Look, this is just a shame the rule had to engage and take this war over, but isnt there anyone else in the clan that can help CoF out with keeping track or double checking? I took it upon myself to do some work (recorded the games for each member) for Inc in our match because I can see how much work it can be.

I honestly dont know what to say here. But I do give CoF a ton of credit for taking responsibility for it. You sir, gain a ton of respect for that.

[MTIceman41]

I would imagine that there are even those in Kort that wouldn't want to advance this way.

Agreed...I think deducting 1 win from TOFU and moving on is what everyone wants to see...hopefully this will be the outcome

[jackal31]

I would imagine that there are even those in Kort that wouldn't want to advance this way.

Agreed...I think deducting 1 win from TOFU and moving on is what everyone wants to see...hopefully this will be the outcome

If both clans agree, then why not? One game is a huge swing when you take a win away in this type of match anyway. I know I wouldnt want to forfeit any games against either KoRT or ToFU.

[nikola_milicki]

well the rule is there, black on white, as someone already mentioned, but wheres the common sense in all this?? I dont care who wins here, but wouldnt want it to be decided over a silly mistake and a dumb rule..

KORT, please grow a pair and do the right thing here..

[trapyoung]

If both clans agree, then why not? One game is a huge swing when you take a win away in this type of match anyway. I know I wouldnt want to forfeit any games against either KoRT or ToFU.

I'm sure they're discussing it now. Josko will discuss it. Josko for Foxglove will discuss it. Josko for Masli will talk too. They'll probably listen to what Josko has to say for Bruceswar this turn only. And then Josko for Moonchild until Wednesday will probably have some words of wisdom.

It is completely out of TOFU's hands - Chuck has made it clear that KoRT can force the forfeiture of 21 games or ascertain a less severe penalty, but ultimately TOFU has no say. Although I'm sure someone will comment that perhaps if trapyoung, et. al. wasn't as rude, then perhaps a more amiable resolution could have been negotiated.

[elfish_lad]

but isnt there anyone else in the clan that can help CoF out with keeping track or double checking?

We as a clan have to take responsibility for this mistake as well. And we do.

I honestly dont know what to say here. But I do give CoF a ton of credit for taking responsibility for it. You sir, gain a ton of respect for that.

Agreed.

E.

[RiskTycoon]

well, that is a dilly of a pickle if i do say so myself.....if it was me I'd take 2 games as forfeit ... the 21st game and another just to be mean and punish them

and on a side note... look, there goes a glacier !

sure hope this gets resolved soon

[trapyoung]

Lmao, first post has KoRT's games updated but not Tofu?

[Leehar]

What I'm interested to note is the mentality behind creating the ruling as it is in the first place. From the cla we see that they have it that you forfeit the latest game you're in if you play in over 6 games in the 18 game round. But if you're losing that game anyway, it doesn't really punish the individual as much. I think this rule was ok to act as a deterrent and test the depths of the clans in the latter rounds, but now that it's come to it's enforcement, it's definitely become a trifle harsh.

[Chuuuuck]

What I'm interested to note is the mentality behind creating the ruling as it is in the first place. From the cla we see that they have it that you forfeit the latest game you're in if you play in over 6 games in the 18 game round. But if you're losing that game anyway, it doesn't really punish the individual as much. I think this rule was ok to act as a deterrent and test the depths of the clans in the latter rounds, but now that it's come to it's enforcement, it's definitely become a trifle harsh.

Leehar, I think you are correct. The ruling in my mind was originally a deterrent to stress "just don't do it!" in hopes that it kept everyone aware enough to not break this rule. Now that it has been broken it is unfortunate but the ruling is the ruling.

It should also be noted that this rule was put in place long before the example you used with the CLA 3.

[the.killing.44]

What a joke. I'm eager to hear what our (LoW's) punishment for not playing for 3rd place is going to be, since it was in the rules.

[chemefreak]

I would imagine that there are even those in Kort that wouldn't want to advance this way.

Agreed...I think deducting 1 win from TOFU and moving on is what everyone wants to see...hopefully this will be the outcome

I think the important thing here from a clan leader perspective is that we not blame chuuuuck for enforcing a rule that was clearly spelled out. Also, we should not be blaming KoRT for accepting the victory based on the rules. It is not cowardly, it is not asinine, it was a rule. I think in the next CCup the rule should be tweaked to follow the Clan League rule, but at this point, we can't go willy-nilly about changing a rule or blaming people for winning under those rules.

Si is an amazing player, and a great guy. He owned up to his mistake and hopefully this will result in a stronger TOFU. Those of us that make the 70-80-90-100 game challenges, along with all of our other responsibilities, can sympathize with what he is probably going through right now. It is not easy being this guy within a clan. But, in the end, this was a 60 game challenge, and a player ended up in more than a third of them. My bet is that chuuuuck even set the number higher than 15 (the normal player limitation for challenges) so that there was no way this could happen.

Tough break for TOFU. KoRT vs THOTA should be awesome...then I would like to see THOTA vs TOFU in the Spring of next year, regardless of the CCup result.