[CC 2010 Semis] TOFU vs KoRT [20-40 of 60]

[the.killing.44]

I don't know about anyone else, but despite the results of the vote, some respect for KORT will be lost on my end.

[nikola_milicki]

u still havent voted cuz u dont feel like letting go on such an easy way out of this challenge.. this says a lot about u man..

If that were the case, I could have simply voted for 21 and raised the odds of getting the easy way out. But think whatever you want.

its not about u not voting for 21, its about u still not voting for a reasonable punishment and most importantly a fair fight.

[Lubawski]

There's nothing wrong with a democratic decision being made. I am a little surprised it is taking so long, and I'm guessing it's because there are people in KORT on both sides of the extremes. As a clan, you want all voices to be heard and come to a group consensus. I think it's easy as an outsider to say a decision would have been made. As a clan, EMPIRE came to what decision they would have made very quickly and in full agreement. With that said, we aren't emotionally invested, so it's a bull-shit decision on our part.

I don't know about anyone else, but despite the results of the vote, some respect for KORT will be lost on my end.

I think it's certain members of KORT who are drawing this out, not the clan as a whole. As a whole they are a good group. Don't judge them by their loudest or most offensive. Between this decision and the 12 hour debate while we were in a challenge with them, it's pretty clear there are very different opinions in the clan.

[Chariot of Fire]

Personally I find it offensive that it has taken so long for you to reach a decision. It would never happen in an honourable clan. So there you go....there's your smoking gun.

I apologise for making a sweeping closing statement that tarred the clan with the same brush, as I appreciate you're obviously going through a democratic process of debating and voting on what measures to impose. Probably the heat of the moment got the better of me as I felt NiMic's post to be unwarranted given that all I was seeking was some resolution after 36 hours had elapsed and not a single member of KORT had made a comment. Thankfully Bruce responded and put my mind at rest (please appreciate the burden I've had to shoulder having let down my clan through no fault of any of its members other than myself). So please don't be too surprised to see me pushing for a resolution as ultimately I am the one who bears responsibilty for this issue arising in the first place.

So my remark wasn't a swipe at the whole clan - I'm sorry that I didn't phrase it better - as I know there are members who feel that doing what is fair is the right course of action. I've known a large section of KORT's membership for quite a while now and to this day I have nothing but respect for both their ability in gameplay and their contributions to the the wider CC community. There must be, however, a certain number who evidently feel TOFU should be punished to the full letter of the law, or at least beyond what may be construed a fair and just compromise. Well I'm sorry, but for anyone who could entertain such an idea I have nothing but contempt. If any member of TOFU even raised such a notion then I wouldn't want him in the clan (but then I know none of them would - it's just who we are).

If I were to apply an analogy to this, it would seem there are those who wish to sentence me to death for stealing a loaf of bread and punish my family at the same time. Within the law? Yes. Is it fair? Well, you can be the judge of that.

[Bruceswar]

The member of KORT have reached a decision:

I will start by saying this decision was surely not an easy one to come to. We debated amongst ourselves for a few days now. When I first contact chuuuuck about the violation, I was gung ho on 21 games being taken along with a few others. We then had those who wanted a lesser penalty. I stepped away from the issue for some time so I could clear my head and think more reasonable and step away from the "gung ho" thoughts. We as KORT were debating it out in our forums MSN and other places. It was largely split. In fact this vote drew out more voters than any other we have had in KORT. It goes to show you this was a big issue for us. Many in KORT / TOFU have invested many hours in this challenge so a quick decision was not something we wanted to come to. These things take a bit more time to come to a decision we can all live with in KORT. With all this being said the behind the scenes debate kept going until I made a time frame for us which would be tonight to have a final decision.

I will not go into how the debate went or which members were on which side, but it became pretty one sided. We as KORT stand together as a clan, and no matter what anybody outside of KORT will say or think our decision is just that "ours". Anybody looking from the outside of this challenge could have said they would do "X", but like Lubawski said only those within the challenge can really say what they want.

In closing KORT wishes to follow the rules as stated. 21 games will be forfeited.


We as members of KORT hope things will not escalate any further.

[trapyoung]

So can you finally update OP? Let's also throw an asterisk in the Subject Line

[jpeter15]

I am surprised as I figured you guys would prefer to advance via beating us rather than a technicality, but its your prerogative. Just very disappointing. Congratulations.

[Chariot of Fire]

Well, I'm completely astonished that this is the decision you've reached. I honestly never thought a clan could bring itself to win in such a manner. Nevertheless the rules were broken and you were entirely within your right to exercise the penalty clause to its fullest extent. Congratulations.

Long may the shame of your decision hang over your heads; beyond the time in which you savour the taste of your hollow victory.

[Snowgun]

Well, I'm completely astonished that this is the decision you've reached. I honestly never thought a clan could bring itself to win in such a manner. Nevertheless the rules were broken and you were entirely within your right to exercise the penalty clause to its fullest extent. Congratulations.

Long may the shame of your decision hang over your heads; beyond the time in which you savour the taste of your hollow victory.

Oh, how the tune has changed from a couple pages ago.

While I personally would prefer that this rule had been implemented different initially, the rule is the rule, and the bait and switch from "We will understand either way" to "You cowardly pussies" is a little hypocritical.

Hopefully the games will continue and Kort will win anyway so we don't have a bunch of conjecture we will have to hear forever. It's too bad all around, these are two great teams.

[trapyoung]

Oh, how the tune has changed from a couple pages ago.

While I personally would prefer that this rule had been implemented different initially, the rule is the rule, and the bait and switch from "We will understand either way" to "You cowardly pussies" is a little hypocritical.

Ummm... are you retarded?

There must be, however, a certain number who evidently feel TOFU should be punished to the full letter of the law, or at least beyond what may be construed a fair and just compromise. Well I'm sorry, but for anyone who could entertain such an idea I have nothing but contempt. If any member of TOFU even raised such a notion then I wouldn't want him in the clan (but then I know none of them would - it's just who we are).

Yeah, you're retarded.

[sonicsteve]

... I believe I speak for all who prefer to do their challenges the right way, on the battle field.. if there is any other way it sure as hell aint the silliest rule ever..

In total agreement with you here,Nikola. As I've said before this is an online browser game and as such any contest should be decided with a series of games on the battlefield. Minor, accidental rule-breaking should really have been sorted out with a practical solution or have gone to a third party to decide how to get both teams back on the battlefield.

If the boot had been on the other foot, we'd have definitely just looked to recreating the 21st game or some similar pragmatic solution that would let both sides move on in a 'fair' way.

My feeling is that at least some of KoRT have allowed themselves to be distracted and their voting rationale has been partly motivated by the heat of the battle and the heat of this thread, instead of focusing on what the vote was really about, which was what to do about the accidental creation of a 21st game. I may be wrong, but voting themselves to win 20 games automatically with the sole justification that a TOFU player joined one extra game, just seems too far-fetched.

Anyway, it's over now, I feel TOFU is a closer-knit clan than before following these shenanigans and the Conqueror's Cup has its finalists. Good luck to both sides in the final.

sonic

[Lubawski]

The member of KORT have reached a decision:

Freudian slip???

[nikola_milicki]

lmfao, not even smart enough to mask their cowardice by accepting a more reasonable punishment like maybe 3 games forfeit, which would prolly be enough to win the challenge anyway..

[Leehar]

So do kort need to start working on the sig/avy bet. Should we expect tofu to sport some cow sigs, or does that not apply anymore?

lmfao, not even smart enough to mask their cowardice by accepting a more reasonable punishment like maybe 3 games forfeit, which would prolly be enough to win the challenge anyway..

I presume it was important to stick primarily to the letter of the law. Maybe if we had kept our comments regarding cowardice to ourselves and that may have made a difference, tho I agree that it shouldn't have mattered.

[danryan]

The member of KORT have reached a decision:

Freudian slip???

Nicely played.

The final is going to be interesting, I bet THOTA check their game count very carefully. As far as results in clan wars this challenge should be voided completely though. It'd be ridiculous to count 36 wins for KORT in a clan war, even if for the purposes of the CCup the rules were followed exactly. Especially since the database will reflect the correct results of the games.

The LOW - TOFU matchup should be a classic. Kronos vs Zeus?

[Leehar]

It'll be interesting to see what thota's response to this will be exactly, With their past history, wanting clans to prove themselves etc
I'm sure that Kort will still fight for this challenge as much as possible so that it's not truly a hollow victory, and as jake said, tofu won't stop fighting either, so I'm sure the challenge will still continue being hotly contested, tho the forfeiture will make it a bit less intense I guess, even if they want to try as hard as possible so I think the significance decreases a bit.

[trapyoung]

So for this you update the OP instantly, but when COF asked you at the end of each batch (multiple times) to update the TOFU games played you did nothing? At least you did it in a different color and quite fitting it's green, the color I see when I know something is tainted.

[elfish_lad]

Well. I find your decision unfortunate for everyone involved. Including your next opponent. You were well within your rights. Maybe it was even the "proper" decision given what the rules state. But I think you made the wrong choice. And that has very little to do with which clan I belong to. It has very much to do with the spirit of this competition.

But maybe that's just me. Cheers.

E.

[eddie2]

i think this is a absolute disgrace for a clan to take 21 games for 1 simple mistake that is easy 2 make.

kort i thought you guys had some balls but this just shows you are a bunch of cowards. what you might of lost a very close run challenge so you take all that you could (i wonder if you were in a 5 point lead you would of had a different choice.)

i think you should stop calling yourselves one of the top clans as this is not the kind of thing you would expect from one of them.

[TheBro]

Well.... HAhahahaha

Kudos to Chuck for sticking to his guns... It must have been pretty hard for him to allow this, knowing how daft his rule was. I'm sure he's just as surprised as anyone KORT decided to fully use their power, though.

Kudos to KORT for having the balls to do the 21 game penalty. I guess that's what happens when you can count; you can see you're about to lose the challenge and desperate measures must be taken. It's unfortunate the better clan can not go on, but such is life. It's the not person who's better at risk who gets ahead, it's the one who takes the easy way out.

[eddie2]

ow yes and i thought i should add this. this happened 2 us (time) in a clan challenge and this is what the clan directors thought about it.

I was under the impression most suggested to replay. That is generally the best option.

[nikola_milicki]

The member of KORT have reached a decision:

I will start by saying this decision was surely not an easy one to come to. We debated amongst ourselves for a few days now. When I first contact chuuuuck about the violation, I was gung ho on 21 games being taken along with a few others. We then had those who wanted a lesser penalty. I stepped away from the issue for some time so I could clear my head and think more reasonable and step away from the "gung ho" thoughts. We as KORT were debating it out in our forums MSN and other places. It was largely split. In fact this vote drew out more voters than any other we have had in KORT. It goes to show you this was a big issue for us. Many in KORT / TOFU have invested many hours in this challenge so a quick decision was not something we wanted to come to. These things take a bit more time to come to a decision we can all live with in KORT. With all this being said the behind the scenes debate kept going until I made a time frame for us which would be tonight to have a final decision.

I will not go into how the debate went or which members were on which side, but it became pretty one sided. We as KORT stand together as a clan, and no matter what anybody outside of KORT will say or think our decision is just that "ours". Anybody looking from the outside of this challenge could have said they would do "X", but like Lubawski said only those within the challenge can really say what they want.

In closing KORT wishes to follow the rules as stated. 21 games will be forfeited.


We as members of KORT hope things will not escalate any further.

Bruce ur post is full of nothing.. U guys dont even protect urselves from ppl like me who keep calling u cowards with no balls, guess u have made ur peace with what u all are, Cowards of the round table!

please tell sjnap to stop making an ass out of himself on my wall.. or at least help him write less ridiculous insults..

[Rodion]

The member of KORT have reached a decision:

I will start by saying this decision was surely not an easy one to come to. We debated amongst ourselves for a few days now. When I first contact chuuuuck about the violation, I was gung ho on 21 games being taken along with a few others. We then had those who wanted a lesser penalty. I stepped away from the issue for some time so I could clear my head and think more reasonable and step away from the "gung ho" thoughts. We as KORT were debating it out in our forums MSN and other places. It was largely split. In fact this vote drew out more voters than any other we have had in KORT. It goes to show you this was a big issue for us. Many in KORT / TOFU have invested many hours in this challenge so a quick decision was not something we wanted to come to. These things take a bit more time to come to a decision we can all live with in KORT. With all this being said the behind the scenes debate kept going until I made a time frame for us which would be tonight to have a final decision.

I will not go into how the debate went or which members were on which side, but it became pretty one sided. We as KORT stand together as a clan, and no matter what anybody outside of KORT will say or think our decision is just that "ours". Anybody looking from the outside of this challenge could have said they would do "X", but like Lubawski said only those within the challenge can really say what they want.

In closing KORT wishes to follow the rules as stated. 21 games will be forfeited.


We as members of KORT hope things will not escalate any further.

Bruce ur post is full of nothing.. U guys dont even protect urselves from ppl like me who keep calling u cowards with no balls, guess u have made ur peace with what u all are, Cowards of the round table!

please tell sjnap to stop making an ass out of himself on my wall.. or at least help him write less ridiculous insults..

On a side note, I find it amusing how people complained this challenge was not amiable and THOTA's one is going in the same direction before it even starts!

[OutSider]

The member of KORT have reached a decision:

Freudian slip???

Nicely played.

The final is going to be interesting, I bet THOTA check their game count very carefully. As far as results in clan wars this challenge should be voided completely though. It'd be ridiculous to count 36 wins for KORT in a clan war, even if for the purposes of the CCup the rules were followed exactly. Especially since the database will reflect the correct results of the games.

The LOW - TOFU matchup should be a classic. Kronos vs Zeus?

Maybe Thota breaks the rules blatantly, having 2 or 3 players play over 20 games, just to give KORT the CC victory they so desperately want.....

[Ace Rimmer]

Whilst I wasn't the one who lodged the complaint, I did however support it. It wasn't a hard decision when you consider the events that prompted it (to have a script, known only to yourselves, that puts "josko for xxxxxx" every time a turn is played....well what reaction did you try to get or expect?).

if you have any issues with that, you could do what Dako and Foxglove agreed to be done if any issue appears. here is pm where it was made deal about that:

Sent: 09 Sep 2010, 17:19
From: Dako
To: Masli Chariot of Fire Foxglove Bruceswar

In closing, if you have an issue with someone in KORT that is serious enough that you believe it warrants involvement and punishment from the site administrators, please initiate a discussion with us about it prior to making threats.

That is why I sent you a PM without doing anything in public.

I have already talked to Masli over MSN (a week ago maybe) that josko was overreacting in the challenge thread - he told me he will talk to him. Josko apologized in thread but in a few days he started to troll games as well as challenge thread again. So I am reminding you again that it is not a behavior we expect from top clan we are facing and we would like you to deal with it because it is discomfortable for us to war in such way.

Cheers,
Daniel.

so foxy officially asked Dako in pm to first initiate discussion with our leaders before put any issue outside.
that s what you should do, just follow the agreement that foxy and Dako made in that pm.

Yesterday was a holiday for me, so I'm just now catching up on this.

Dako and I have duties as members of TeamCC that go above and beyond what the rest of the TOFU members do. In this case, you posted josko for Bruceswar, which is a clear violation of CC policy. It is my duty as a member of TeamCC to take this to the admins to find out if he really was sharing his account, as that is a violation of TeamCC policies. I would be glad to post in public my PM to King Achilles so you can see exactly what I wrote. I did not ask for a ban or punishment of any sort, just for this to be looked into, same as I would for any other player/mod on this site who hints that they are abusing the rules. Dako also did not call for josko's head or anything, just for the multihunters to look into it and see what action needed to be taken, if anything. I also know that IF josko was sitting for another member strategically, it would have been his first violation and he would have had a warning, not a website ban (which would lead to him getting removed from games).

In her PM, Foxy was talking about Dako/CoF putting in complaints about Josko baiting, trolling games, etc. That is far different than the potential of account abuse/babysitting abuse that your script gave the impression of.

Jake