I Have a Favor to Ask...

[Maugena]

I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit far-fetched.

Best quote ever in a thread about god's omnipotence and free will. Someone doesn't have their mind sufficiently open.

Woody and others are right on about matters of perspective and dimensions of existence. The principle tenets of quantum theory rely heavily on much the same concepts, such as reference frames and dilations and expansions of time (and this is within our OWN dimensional set).

There is a reason why Albert Einstein believed in God (as did many of the other prominent physicists of that era).

That dots example is absolutely retarded.
I'm not even going to bother going into detail.

Your argument contradicting the dots example is absolutely retarded. But for reals this time.
I'm not even going to bother going into detail.

Who the hell are you and what the hell do you believe?
I'm not going to argue with something so ridiculous.
It's like wanting to be open minded for the sake of being open minded with no real, clear-cut concept actually present.
You're basically saying that the reason behind this being possible is "stuff".

[Maugena]

Wasting my time on this... I know I won't change your opinion, but whatever, it will help me vent.

That example has nothing at all to do with "mysterious ways". As to your last question, I've explained this in depth several times. And the dot example is a great one in its simplicity. I'm not sure how else I can explain it, given that I've been complicated and I've been simple.

No, it's simply foolish.
The example is obscure at best.
Not to mention it just kind of throws out a random analogy that can supposedly be applied to an apparently well-defined being that can act outside of logic itself.

[Lionz]

What if He is outside time and yet He saw things unfold for a first time in a linear manner? What if He created time and us and an environment at the same time and we were placed in the environment and let free with the ability to make decisions? What if there have been several cycles in a Groundhog Day movie fashion and several disastrous outcomes have occured and He's stepped in to put things on a correct path to a successful conclusion? What if the Father is outside time and yet He chose to have a House made of Flesh within it...an Arm used to bring salvation?

[BigBallinStalin]

There is a reason why Albert Einstein believed in God (as did many of the other prominent physicists of that era).

Albert Einstein said:
I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

He shoots, HE SCORES!

[BigBallinStalin]

What if time travel was real? What if the Father has a house outside of time in a premium location, but the house is made of human substances--mainly flesh...an Arm used as the door knocker?

[tzor]

free will = The ability to make a choice that is not externally constrained, as in it is not constrained by things outside of yourself(a guy with a gun to your head). However it will naturally be constrained by things within you(your understanding of evolution makes you believe it is a valid theory and this makes you post on a online risk forum about it, for instance). If our choices wouldn't be internally constrained then they would be simply random.

Haggis, you hit the nail on the head. Before we can even discuss any thought of God we first have to really understand what “free will” in a static universe really means. We know that in the static space time Hawking model, time is really an illusion. The question then becomes is free will also an illusion?

The answer is “no.” The fact that we can make only one decision and that we will make only one decision does not in any way imply that that decision was “beyond our control.” Our thought processes were an important factor in that decision and if you want to get to the extreme details … well you can’t. (Thank you quantum mechanics for allowing our universe not to get into irrational details.)

Every day we are faced with a multitude of choices (coffee or tea / vodka or scotch) and we make those choices of our own “free will.” That we made one choice and that watching the replay yields us the same result over and over does not negate that free will decision. Free will and “determinism” (which is a really bad word from this angle, “the static space time universe” is a better description) can exist side by side. The former is looking through the illusion of time; the later is looking outside the illusion of time.

Now if God exists outside of space time then one can raise legitimate questions on how God can manipulate space time without destroying “free will.” Assuming that God doesn’t want to take away free will, the only answer is that this limits how God can interact with the universe. This might annoy some people who love to give all sorts of infinities to God, but self constraints is not an overall negative attribute on God.

[Woodruff]

Wasting my time on this... I know I won't change your opinion, but whatever, it will help me vent.

That example has nothing at all to do with "mysterious ways". As to your last question, I've explained this in depth several times. And the dot example is a great one in its simplicity. I'm not sure how else I can explain it, given that I've been complicated and I've been simple.

No, it's simply foolish.
The example is obscure at best.
Not to mention it just kind of throws out a random analogy that can supposedly be applied to an apparently well-defined being that can act outside of logic itself.

Truthfully, you seem determined not to try to understand the various points I've been making on the subject. It makes me suspect that your original post in this thread was not about trying to gain understanding, but rather as a means of attack.