Gay marriage

[Dancing Mustard]

I find homosexuality no more and no less grotesque to me than necrophilia or bestiality. It is the same as any other sin...

Welcome to Weirdoville
Population: Nataki Yiro

[Napoleon Ier]

I find homosexuality no more and no less grotesque to me than necrophilia or bestiality. It is the same as any other sin...

Welcome to Weirdoville
Population: Nataki Yiro

Well now, hang on, he has a point here. Now, if homosexuality is indeed "genetic" or perfectly "normal" and "natural", then so is necrophilia, bestilaity, paedophilia, or incest. Of course, issues of consent can be raised to counter arguments for paedo-sexual marriage, but you're forced to accept that paedophiles are "normal" people who have just been unlucky not to have been born with a socially acceptable gentic predisposition to sexual orientation. Anyone who stops to ponder this, or the fact that the extension of their logic forces them to recognise an incestuous couple's right to marriage, should quickly come to realise the inescapable fact that homosexuality just isn't normal. Now, no direct negative externality is resultant from a homosexual act between consetning persons, so who am I to campaign for outlawing it, but from there to giving it societal recognition through the institution of marriage? No sir!

[Iliad]

I find homosexuality no more and no less grotesque to me than necrophilia or bestiality. It is the same as any other sin...

Welcome to Weirdoville
Population: Nataki Yiro

Well now, hang on, he has a point here. Now, if homosexuality is indeed "genetic" or perfectly "normal" and "natural", then so is necrophilia, bestilaity, paedophilia, or incest. Of course, issues of consent can be raised to counter arguments for paedo-sexual marriage, but you're forced to accept that paedophiles are "normal" people who have just been unlucky not to have been born with a socially acceptable gentic predisposition to sexual orientation. Anyone who stops to ponder this, or the fact that the extension of their logic forces them to recognise an incestuous couple's right to marriage, should quickly come to realise the inescapable fact that homosexuality just isn't normal. Now, no direct negative externality is resultant from a homosexual act between consetning persons, so who am I to campaign for outlawing it, but from there to giving it societal recognition through the institution of marriage? No sir!

are you forgetting that's it consenting? That is the difference nappy wake up and start reading the other people's posts

[Napoleon Ier]

Welcome to Weirdoville
Population: Nataki Yiro

Well now, hang on, he has a point here. Now, if homosexuality is indeed "genetic" or perfectly "normal" and "natural", then so is necrophilia, bestilaity, paedophilia, or incest. Of course, issues of consent can be raised to counter arguments for paedo-sexual marriage, but you're forced to accept that paedophiles are "normal" people who have just been unlucky not to have been born with a socially acceptable gentic predisposition to sexual orientation. Anyone who stops to ponder this, or the fact that the extension of their logic forces them to recognise an incestuous couple's right to marriage, should quickly come to realise the inescapable fact that homosexuality just isn't normal. Now, no direct negative externality is resultant from a homosexual act between consetning persons, so who am I to campaign for outlawing it, but from there to giving it societal recognition through the institution of marriage? No sir!

are you forgetting that's it consenting?

No, that's half the point you mongoloid, I'm not. I've just been pointing out that incest is as well but you wouldn't want to allow two siblings to get marrid, would you?

That is the difference nappy wake up and start reading the other people's posts

That is what I was saying wake up read my posts and learn how to use the comma and the full stop

[PLAYER57832]

Oh snap! because that's totally what I just said... >_>
It was on the news and related to this topic... grown up...


@ Player

I never said I wouldn't forgive a homosexual. I said I don't put up with homosexuality.

Love the sinner, hate the sin...

Like I said I find homosexuality no more and no less grotesque to me than necrophilia or bestiality.
It is the same as any other sin...

Except as Christians, we are supposed to model Christ. And the folks Christ reserved HIS anger for were the sactimonious leaders... the worst condemnation "you hypocrits!". Now, don't take that as justification for condemning modern judiasm. ALL religions have leaders who don't always represent their faiths fully ... it is the fault of being human.

The other action he directed was to "shake the dust off your fee" of places where not even one person accepted him. I don't think anyone objects to you living your life privately ... BUT the line is crossed when you require others to accept YOUR personal beliefs.

Look at history. I don't care what country, what culture. As soon as they gain power, there are those who decide to use that particular belief to subvert and condem those they oppose ... and without exception THEY end up being as bad or, more often, far worse than those they claim to be purifying the world against. THAT is why we have to be tolerant.

YOu want to hold debates on public squares, you want to hold private discussions -- go for it, but when you go from arguing YOUR view to FORCING the rest of the world to comply -- I don't care if you are saying things with which I agree or not, you are wrong in your actions.

There is nothing Christian about denying a parent who has established a loving relationship custody because his or her partner got ill or died. There is nothing loving about denying a caring partner the right to visit a sick life partner because some family members did not happen to like the lifestyle and the state laws don't recognize that life partner as anything more than a casual friend. There is nothing right or just about removing a child who has been greatly loved from his parents because they happen to have the misfortune of getting into a car accident in a state that doesn't recognize their gaurdienship.

There is nothing loving about those acts, nor is there anything that benefits the state.

[Snorri1234]

Too bad AIDS wouldn't exist without gay sex... oh wait... that's the truth
>_> snap!

You're slightly confused. AIDS wouldn't exist if it weren't for monkeys!

In fact that's why we have most STDs. Don't believe me... go ask a doctor. I'm studying to be one...

...wtf?

I'm going to vote pro-"gay people are scary" and all the others, which were funny I might add.

My reasons:
- almost all gay people I know cause so much drama it hurts
- all this drama makes them less productive in working
- dirt old man and gay are the worst combination ever
- they force their beliefs on others

Are you serious?

Yes, I said beliefs. Did you know their is an official cross-dressing day for elementary school kids. If that's not forcing beliefs down people throats than evolution is a legitimate scientific notation. Don't give me that "Christians do this business", because that is another topic.

You're doing this deliberately, aren't you?

Also, for your reference, there is no REAL evidence that proves the Bible wrong. To our current knowledge, it is a completely true historical account(s) of the early world.

[Nataki Yiro]

You have a problem with that Snorri?

I would be going to hell, but I'm going to heaven, because I've been saved through my belief and trust in the one and only Savior and Redeemer of my soul, and have a relationship with Him.

Anytime someone makes a good point against the pro-gay argue it is "shot down" by "evidence" that really as nothing to with the point. Are you saying consent makes everything better or are we saying gay is a gene?

I'm pretty sure people who purchase drugs (the illegal variety) give their consent to the drug dealer to get them. Is that why drugs should be made legal. Sounds like a lame reason to me...

I'm not trying to force anything on anyone. I am merely trying to understand why they believe what they believe without good evidence...

[PLAYER57832]

Well now, hang on, he has a point here. Now, if homosexuality is indeed "genetic" or perfectly "normal" and "natural", then so is necrophilia, bestilaity, paedophilia, or incest. Of course, issues of consent can be raised to counter arguments for paedo-sexual marriage, but you're forced to accept that paedophiles are "normal" people who have just been unlucky not to have been born with a socially acceptable gentic predisposition to sexual orientation. Anyone who stops to ponder this, or the fact that the extension of their logic forces them to recognise an incestuous couple's right to marriage, should quickly come to realise the inescapable fact that homosexuality just isn't normal. Now, no direct negative externality is resultant from a homosexual act between consetning persons, so who am I to campaign for outlawing it, but from there to giving it societal recognition through the institution of marriage? No sir!

are you forgetting that's it consenting?

No, that's half the point you mongoloid, I'm not. I've just been pointing out that incest is as well but you wouldn't want to allow two siblings to get marrid, would you?

That is what I was saying wake up read my posts and learn how to use the comma and the full stop

Your lack of logic is astounding. No, just because one behavior might be genetic doesn't mean others are as well.

Intelligent human beings can distinguish between a child and an adult. Intelligent human beings can distinguish between incest and acts between consenting adults that, by-the way, are not going to result in genetic abnormalities in children. Intelligent human beings can distinguish between someone who steals solely because they are hungry or elderly and confused and someone who steals because they want the latest style of jeans or are hooked on drugs.

And intelligent human beings can certainly distinguish between necrophilia, beastiality, pedophilia and acts between consenting adults.

[Nataki Yiro]

I think Nap makes a good point Player...

Snorri if you have a problem with the Bible then to prove me wrong. Please show me another historical document that contradicts what it says. Oh wait! There aren't any... and in fact more historically records line up/side with the Bible's account of history. Don't believe me?

Go get a Bible and a Western Civilization book (one that specializes in pre-Roman/Roman time period) and compare what they say happened. The only difference you will find is that when it comes to the resurrection of Jesus, the Bible says He rose from the grave and the text book says His body vanished and no one knows where to.

[PLAYER57832]

You have a problem with that Snorri?

I would be going to hell, but I'm going to heaven, because I've been saved through my belief and trust in the one and only Savior and Redeemer of my soul, and have a relationship with Him.

Anytime someone makes a good point against the pro-gay argue it is "shot down" by "evidence" that really as nothing to with the point. Are you saying consent makes everything better or are we saying gay is a gene?

I'm pretty sure people who purchase drugs (the illegal variety) give their consent to the drug dealer to get them. Is that why drugs should be made legal. Sounds like a lame reason to me...

I'm not trying to force anything on anyone. I am merely trying to understand why they believe what they believe without good evidence...

Whether you or anyone else is going to heaven is up to God, not any other human being. You believe in Christ? yes, that is all you need to be saved.

You are also correct that whether Homosexuality is or isn't biologically based is irrelevant to whether it is sin or not. But how about this. Christ died on the cross for ALL.

I for one am happy that the days of the inquisition, when folks had to accept only certain ideas of Christianity, are long gone. The REAL evidence is that hatred and intolerance are the REAL causes of harm.

HISTORY tells us this ... history AND the Bible (which I certainly believe contains real history as well as other teachings!).

[reminisco]

In fact that's why we have most STDs. Don't believe me... go ask a doctor. I'm studying to be one...

...wtf?

"Um, I'd prefer it if you'd call me Doctor. I didn't spend four years in evil medical school to be called Mister, thank you very much."

[PLAYER57832]

I think Nap makes a good point Player...

Snorri if you have a problem with the Bible then to prove me wrong. Please show me another historical document that contradicts what it says. Oh wait! There aren't any... and in fact more historically records line up/side with the Bible's account of history. Don't believe me?

Go get a Bible and a Western Civilization book (one that specializes in pre-Roman/Roman time period) and compare what they say happened. The only difference you will find is that when it comes to the resurrection of Jesus, the Bible says He rose from the grave and the text book says His body vanished and no one knows where to.

If you are suggesting that homosexuality might be wrong -- no argument. I just say I am not to judge.

The QUESTION and point presented within this thread, though, was not whether homosexuality is sin, it was whether homosexual unions should be recognized by the state .... and my response to nap included the addition that the CHRISTLY way to deal with someone who acts in a way you dislike is simply to avoid them -- NOT to expect the state to make those actions illegal.

I speak of practicalities.

The state has a right to intervene in morality ONLY when there is an overwhelming threat -- murder, incest, pedophilia, theft ... even ensuring that folks don't speed are all puclic interest items. Who someone chooses to love, as an adult isn't one.

THAT is my argument

[PLAYER57832]

In fact that's why we have most STDs. Don't believe me... go ask a doctor. I'm studying to be one...

If you really are studying to be a doctor, then you ought to know that STDs have been around since the beginning of civilization, AND that it is prostitutes -- heterosexual prostititutes and those "upstanding" males who feel it is their perogotive to visit them, that are largely responsible for its spread.

As for the monkeys=AIDS bit. No one really knows how AIDS first came into humanity, but the monkey theory had to to with people EATING monkeys for food, not having sex with them.

AND though AIDS rose to the American/Canadien/European consciousness first through homosexuality, it is NOW being spread to wives and children through marriage far more than through homosexual acts.

Besides, if you wish to start laying blame to folks for spreading disease, why don't you look at the many, many MANY diseases brought by Christian missionaries.

BUT that has little or nothing to do with whether homosexual couples should be allowed to legitimize their unions in a ceremony recognized by the state.

[Napoleon Ier]

Well now, hang on, he has a point here. Now, if homosexuality is indeed "genetic" or perfectly "normal" and "natural", then so is necrophilia, bestilaity, paedophilia, or incest. Of course, issues of consent can be raised to counter arguments for paedo-sexual marriage, but you're forced to accept that paedophiles are "normal" people who have just been unlucky not to have been born with a socially acceptable gentic predisposition to sexual orientation. Anyone who stops to ponder this, or the fact that the extension of their logic forces them to recognise an incestuous couple's right to marriage, should quickly come to realise the inescapable fact that homosexuality just isn't normal. Now, no direct negative externality is resultant from a homosexual act between consetning persons, so who am I to campaign for outlawing it, but from there to giving it societal recognition through the institution of marriage? No sir!

are you forgetting that's it consenting?

No, that's half the point you mongoloid, I'm not. I've just been pointing out that incest is as well but you wouldn't want to allow two siblings to get marrid, would you?

That is what I was saying wake up read my posts and learn how to use the comma and the full stop

Your lack of logic is astounding. No, just because one behavior might be genetic doesn't mean others are as well.

Intelligent human beings can distinguish between a child and an adult. Intelligent human beings can distinguish between incest and acts between consenting adults that, by-the way, are not going to result in genetic abnormalities in children. Intelligent human beings can distinguish between someone who steals solely because they are hungry or elderly and confused and someone who steals because they want the latest style of jeans or are hooked on drugs.

And intelligent human beings can certainly distinguish between necrophilia, beastiality, pedophilia and acts between consenting adults.

Your lack of comprehension is astounding. No, just because it is convienent for society to some paraphilias as genetic or natural doesn't mean others can be arbitrarily excluded from this categorization.

Intelligent human beings can see the double standard in arbitrarily exempting homosexuality from the realm of other repulsive and sickening paraphilias which society rightly considers perverse just because it is performed between consenting adults.

And intelligent human beings can certainly see that acts between consenting adults such as incest are twisted and abhorrent, just like homosexuality.

Better luck next time, PLAY3R517!!!11!

[Snorri1234]

You have a problem with that Snorri?

Quite a number of them actually.

I would be going to hell, but I'm going to heaven, because I've been saved through my belief and trust in the one and only Savior and Redeemer of my soul, and have a relationship with Him.

Who? Allah?

Anytime someone makes a good point against the pro-gay argue it is "shot down" by "evidence" that really as nothing to with the point. Are you saying consent makes everything better or are we saying gay is a gene?

Yeah consent does make it much, much better.

I'm pretty sure people who purchase drugs (the illegal variety) give their consent to the drug dealer to get them. Is that why drugs should be made legal. Sounds like a lame reason to me...

Actually, I'm highly in favour of legalising most drugs.
But that's irrelevant. The difference is that homosexuality doesn't. hurt. anyone. Homosexuals don't steal car radios to get their fix, and they certainly don't die due to having too much gaysex.

[Napoleon Ier]

Homosexuality doesn't directly harm anybody, but then, neither does incest.

[PLAYER57832]

Homosexuality doesn't directly harm anybody, but then, neither does incest.

Wrong, incest does cause harm to any potential children, in the form of genetic abnormalities.

[reminisco]

[Snorri1234]

[Napoleon Ier]

Homosexuality doesn't directly harm anybody, but then, neither does incest.

Wrong, incest does cause harm to any potential children, in the form of genetic abnormalities.

Fine, smart-ass, neither does incest with use of decent contraceptives.

Surely by your definition then, incest isn't wrong, only the resultant "genetic abnormalities". Oh, and people with cystic fibrosis can't reproduce? No f*ck that...anyone without blond hair, blue eyes, an athletic tone and propensity to look after dobbermans can;t reproduce. How far do we go?

[Frigidus]

Homosexuality doesn't directly harm anybody, but then, neither does incest.

Wrong, incest does cause harm to any potential children, in the form of genetic abnormalities.

Fine, smart-ass, neither does incest with use of decent contraceptives.

Surely by your definition then, incest isn't wrong, only the resultant "genetic abnormalities". Oh, and people with cystic fibrosis can't reproduce? No f*ck that...anyone without blond hair, blue eyes, an athletic tone and propensity to look after dobbermans can;t reproduce. How far do we go?

Hm. I suppose that it comes down to whether you lump together beastiality and incest with homosexuality. I don't. Not really a way to argue that one either way though. Sex in general is a rather dirty business.

[Nataki Yiro]

I don't seem to remember saying all STDs... I pretty sure I said most. And on top of that I said that they were because of homosexual relations.

Player I have totally lost respect for you. You tell people what they are saying is hypocrisy but you are the one spouting it. I never said God love homosexuals less. God loves all people. I do however have a hard time believe that someone who is a homosexual truly has a real relationship with God. If you love someone you do things for them (no I'm not saying this in a negative way) and one of the things Christians do is obey God. In obeying God we follow his instructions, but oh wait... avoiding homosexual relations is one of those... along with incest AND bestiality.

Remi, what is your doctorate in???

[Nataki Yiro]

Since we don't seem to agree that they are related, I think we should see if the Bible thinks they are related...

Levititus 18:6 "No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations..."
Levititus 18:7 "Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother..."
<a verse about incest>
Levititus 18:9 "Do not have sexual relations with your sister..."
<more verses about incest and woman stealing>
Levititus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Levititus 18:23 "Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it..."

Oh snap! The Bible seems to group them together...

[Snorri1234]

Homosexuality doesn't directly harm anybody, but then, neither does incest.

Wrong, incest does cause harm to any potential children, in the form of genetic abnormalities.

Fine, smart-ass, neither does incest with use of decent contraceptives.

Surely by your definition then, incest isn't wrong, only the resultant "genetic abnormalities". Oh, and people with cystic fibrosis can't reproduce? No f*ck that...anyone without blond hair, blue eyes, an athletic tone and propensity to look after dobbermans can;t reproduce. How far do we go?

Well we can solve this by being grade A hypocrites, something humans as a whole are rather good at. Neither you nor I can deny that we're sometimes hypocrites, but you're right in that that probably isn't a good thing to base something as important as laws on.

I suppose the difference between incest and homosexuality is that one is between non-related persons and the other isn't.

[Snorri1234]

I don't seem to remember saying all STDs... I pretty sure I said most. And on top of that I said that they were because of homosexual relations.

Holy shit, are you serious? You think gaysex magically generates diseases?

I never said God love homosexuals less. God loves all people.

Homosexuals just don't get into teh heavens.

Remi, what is your doctorate in???

Dicks.