San Francisco Mafia- Aage, Safari and Kernov Win!!!

[aage]

It was just pain that the top guys of the Prisoner faction were deadbeats and I was alive and kickin'. I think that really was the main problem.

Well, that and the unlynchability of the lovers.

[safariguy5]

Yeah, it was an interesting idea with double cupids, and I never played with cupids before. The problem I thought was too much bulletproofness. I like the idea of the SK prisoner, but making the GF bulletproof made it nearly impossible for SK to kill him. (Which may have helped the prisoners) I think that instead of having the cupids impart unlynchable, having them grant bulletproofness would have been better as town would have had a shot to win at the end against aage.

By the time I figured aage to be the GF, town couldn't do anything about it, so I decided to just support him.

[kernov]

Great game Violet,

I met my win conditions for my role, little bit of confusion at the end or not. i didnt realize the mod could change the win conditions for anyone at the end. im disapointed with all the good hard work i did you feel you could take the win away from me. We all im sure made some mistakes.

[edocsil]

I don't get why the docs didn't protect me, I really was their only shot at wining, a fact I find quite humorous. I would also like the see the lists of the night actions.

[jeraado]

Firstly vio, I really enjoyed following this game (since I didn't last long!). I think you did a good job as a mod

Holy shit, no offense Vio, but you have to work on your balance here.

There was absolutely no way for the prisoners to win, not with 3 traitors. Also, if Aage was that powerful I and Dlanor Itboth should have been bulletproof. That being said with aage being a god there was no way anyone else was going to win. No way at all.

I really disagree with this - I think the prisoners should've had the best run at this game. Two double-JOATs, including a night 0 investigation, with day-time communications and their best course of action spelt out to one of them - the betrayers shouldn't have lasted beyond night 1. It's not violets fault that they didn't take the obvious course of action. Then they could've continued to use the double-kill (including sk) to get the upper hand, then killed him off. That would've left the sk with a choice of who to back in mid-game - stick with the prisoners or act as town vig. Adding any extra powers to prisoners would've meant that it really would've been unbalanced if they had handled the start of the game properly.

I think that aage's original powers were reasonably fair, given that he was leading the smallest faction. They meant that mafia were comparible to prisoners overall. Unfortunately, he became a lover, which did make his role over-powered. Mind you, I'm not sure about the bulletproof + unlynchable combo if the goons are alive. Maybe a 1-shot would've been fairer.

Also, I think town had a tricky job due to the number of anti-town groups. I thought the two docs plus two lovers was an interesting way of giving them some resistance. Possibly a role-blocker or bus-driver would have worked well in this game, since there were so many potential anti-town actions.

Thanks for the game vio most enjoyable

[VioIet]

Night O Actions
Cupid 1- Kernov chooses Fircoal and Aage to be lovers
Cupid 2- Sensfan chooses Victor and Dazey to be lovers
Doctor 1- Flow protects himself
Cop 1- Fircoal investigates LSU- gets innocent response.
Cop 2- Victor investigates Dazey- gets innocent response.
Secret Investigator- Karel investigates Commander’s role

Night 1 Actions
Mafia: Aage investigates Fircoal- learns his role
Mafia- Kills Tails

Head Prisoner- LSU investigates Judah- learns his role
LSU now has two kills, two protects, one investigation and two roleblocks left
Vice Head Prisoner- Drabod attempts to Kill Edocsil
Edocsil is now one-night bulletproof
Drabod has one kill, two protects, two investigations and two roleblocks left
Send Message to Drabod- Your action has been blocked.

Prisoners- Attempt to kill Flow- gets told that their action was blocked.

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills Jeraado

Cop 1- Fircoal investigates Edocsil- gets innocent response
Cop 2- Victor investigates Flow- gets innocent response
Secret Investigator- Karel attempts to investigate Aage- gets told that the action was blocked
Doctor 1- Flow protects himself-saves himself from getting killed by the prisoners
Doctor 2- Gabe protects Judah

Deaths- Tails, Jeraado

Night 2 Actions
Aage investigates Judah- learns his role
Mafia kills commander9

Head Prisoner – Dlanor kills Karel
Dlanor now has one kill, two protects, one investigation and two roleblocks left

Vice Head Prisoner- Drabod protects Dlanor
Drabod has one kill, one protect, two investigations and two roleblocks left


Prisoners- Attempt to kill Victor
Victor is no longer bullet-proof.

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills lildanbassman

Cop 1-
Cop 2- Victor investigates edoc- gets guilty response
Secret Investigator- Karel investigates Dlanor- learns his role
Docter 1- Flow protects himself
Doctor 2- Gabe protects flow

Deaths- lildanbassman, karel, commander9

Night 3 Actions
Aage investigates Dazey, learns her role.
Mafia kills Dazey

Vice Head Prisoner- Drabod attempts to kill Edoc.
Drabod has one protect, two investigations and two roleblocks left

Edoc is no longer bullet-proof

Prisoners- Attempt to kill Fircoal
Fircoal is no longer bullet-proof

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills Dazey

Cop 1-
Cop 2- Victor investigates

Doctor 1- Flow protects /
Doctor 2- Gabe protects Dazey

Deaths- Dazey, /




Night 4 Actions
Aage investigates Flow, learns his role.
Mafia kills edocsil


Edoc is no longer bullet-proof


Safariguy is no longer bullet-proof

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills mass miracle

Cop 1- Safariguy investigates Judah- gets innocent response

Doctor 1- Flow protects Flow
Doctor 2- Gabe protects mass miracle

Deaths- Edoc


Night 5 Actions
Aage investigates Mass Miracle
Mafia kills Flow



Safariguy is no longer bullet-proof


Cop 1- Safariguy investigates mass- gets full name and role oops!

Doctor 1- Flow protects Safari

Deaths- Flow


Night 6 Actions
Aage investigates Kernov
Mafia kills Mass



Safariguy is no longer bullet-proof


Cop 1- Safariguy investigates kernov- gets innocent result


Deaths- Mass

[Fircoal]

Oh hey, I won

[VioIet]

Night Actions with Mod Analysis

Night O Actions
Cupid 1- Kernov chooses Fircoal and Aage to be lovers (hehehehehe-this sure makes things interesting)
Cupid 2- Sensfan chooses Victor and Dazey to be lovers (what a cute couple)
Doctor 1- Flow protects himself ??? (hehe, guess he didn’t realize no deaths night 0)
Cop 1- Fircoal investigates LSU- gets innocent response.
Cop 2- Victor investigates Dazey- gets innocent response.
Secret Investigator- Karel investigates Commander’s role (I wonder what he will do with this bit of information)

(WTH prisoners, why no investigations?)

Night 1 Actions
Mafia: Aage investigates Fircoal- learns his role
Mafia- Kills Tails (Noooooooooooooooo!!!) (Why not investigate him before you killed him? Noooooooooo!!!!) (Really really wanted to send aage a pm, telling him to please take this kill back, but I couldn’t do that.)

Head Prisoner- LSU investigates Judah- learns his role
LSU now has two kills, two protects, one investigation and two roleblocks left
Vice Head Prisoner- Drabod attempts to Kill Edocsil (Smart choice! Too bad he’s bulletproof, but you might get him next time)
Edocsil is now one-night bulletproof (it’s early for him to have been hit already. Hope he can survive).
Drabod has one kill, two protects, two investigations and two roleblocks left
Send Message to Drabod- Your action has been blocked.

Prisoners- Attempt to kill Flow- gets told that their action was blocked.

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills Jeraado (Wow! Aage is not going to be happy in the morning)

Cop 1- Fircoal investigates Edocsil- gets innocent response
Cop 2- Victor investigates Flow- gets innocent response
Secret Investigator- Karel attempts to investigate Aage- gets told that the action was blocked
Doctor 1- Flow protects himself-saves himself from getting killed by the prisoners (hehe, good call on your part)
Doctor 2- Gabe protects Judah (Judah seems to be popular tonight)

Deaths- Tails, Jeraado

(Will definitely miss the both of you. Wish you could have played longer).


Night 2 Actions
Aage investigates Judah- learns his role (hehe Mr. Popular again)
Mafia kills commander9 (Nooooooo!!! I wanted him to stay in the game longer)

Head Prisoner – Dlanor kills Karel (Noooooo!! My second favorite role in the game, right behind the Zodiac. Town lost a jewel).
Dlanor now has one kill, two protects, one investigation and two roleblocks left

Vice Head Prisoner- Drabod protects Dlanor
Drabod has one kill, one protect, two investigations and two roleblocks left


Prisoners- Attempt to kill Victor (Smart choice for the prisoners).
Victor is no longer bullet-proof.

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills lildanbassman

Cop 1- (Hmm, I wonder why Fir missed his action)
Cop 2- Victor investigates edoc- gets guilty response (Shoots, I wanted to zodiac to go unnoticed for a bit longer. The next day should be interesting now).
Secret Investigator- Karel investigates Dlanor- learns his role (Wow, both edoc and Dlanor outed now)
Docter 1- Flow protects himself
Doctor 2- Gabe protects flow (hehehe, that was quite funny)

Deaths- lildanbassman, karel, commander9

Mod was not happy with the deaths this night
Karel and Commander will have to forever hold their silence. Lildan was funny and made the most of his role.

Night 3 Actions
Aage investigates Dazey, learns her role.
Mafia kills Dazey (Grrrrr. Aage is trying to annoy the mod)

Vice Head Prisoner- Drabod attempts to kill Edoc.
Drabod has one protect, two investigations and two roleblocks left

Edoc is no longer bullet-proof (Oh No! Poor Zodiac)

Prisoners- Attempt to kill Fircoal
Fircoal is no longer bullet-proof

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills Dazey (Oh gosh a double kill. Stop trying to annoy the mod!!!!)

Cop 1- (Fircoal Wake Up!!! Come on now!!)
Cop 2- Victor investigates (oh gosh, I forgot to type a name, and can’t remember. Slash will have to tell me if he remembers, as the pm has archived/been deleted)

Doctor 1- Flow protects / (Wow, maybe I can somehow use this to save Slash and Dazey)
Doctor 2- Gabe protects Dazey (Should this protect work against both kills, or only one of them?)

Deaths- Dazey and /

(This was a hard night for me. I almost decided to let Dazey and Slash live. Both SK and mafia targeted Dazey, and both docs targeted Dazey and Slash. I wanted to justify the docs protecting Slash- so they would both survive. But technically I just couldn’t do that).


Night 4 Actions
Aage investigates Flow, learns his role.
Mafia kills edocsil (Noooo!!! I love the SK!!!! He played sooooo well!! Really deserved to win.)


Edoc is no longer bullet-proof


Safariguy is no longer bullet-proof

Serial Killer- Edocsil kills mass miracle

Cop 1- Safariguy investigates Judah- gets innocent response (Judah sure is popular).

Doctor 1- Flow protects Flow (Why couldn’t you protect edoc!!!)
Doctor 2- Gabe protects mass miracle (Noo! He hasn’t even been targeted tonight, why didn’t you save Edoc!!)

Deaths- Edoc (Awww Would have loved for a SK to win a large game).


Night 5 Actions
Aage investigates Mass Miracle
Mafia kills Flow (Good call to get rid of both doctors. Easy game for you now).

Safariguy is no longer bullet-proof (it really doesn’t matter at this point).


Cop 1- Safariguy investigates mass- gets full name and role (Oops! My Bad!! Had just sent the pm to aage just a few minutes before, and copied/pasted the same info. It wasn't actually until the next day or so that i really- oh uh- i was supposed to just say innocent. Mod mistake. I think all the other investigations were revealed properly).

Doctor 1- Flow protects Safari (the one time that he doesn’t protect himself, he gets killed. Oh the irony).

Deaths- Flow (He probably won’t be happy about protecting saf).


Night 6 Actions
Aage investigates Kernov
Mafia kills Mass (Wow! Really! I thought for sure he would kill Judah. But guess it doesn’t matter too much as this point).


Safariguy is no longer bullet-proof

Cop 1- Safariguy investigates kernov- gets innocent result


Deaths- Mass (Gosh! Why can’t someone just kill that inactive Judah. He has been targeted more than anyone else this game, yet never has died).

Game ended after Day 7.

[VioIet]

Oh hey, I won

No you didn't, you abandoned it. Safariguy won. He did a great job after replacing- which isn't easy to do.

Firstly vio, I really enjoyed following this game (since I didn't last long!). I think you did a good job as a mod

Thank you Jeraado. I'm sorry you died prematurely. Early on in the game, I also thought things were fair for the prisoners, but the game didn't progress in their favor at all. I liked the prisoner faction having different abilities from the mafia faction.


Some things that surprised me
The majority of the vanilla townies making it to the end game.
Kernov never having been targeted until the very last night.
Flow surviving for as long as he did.
Both mafia members dying Night 1.
Karel dying Night 2.
Fir not playing.
Dazey guessing who Edoc was very early on.
Aage not investigating Tails before killing him.
Gabriel suddenly becoming super active at the end of the game.
No case being made against Aage before Day 6.
The prisoners not hammering edoc- but i can also understand this.
No one attempting to figure out who Loomy and Frederika were.
No one questioning how there could have been so many cop roles.
No one remembering karel or lildan's death and roles.
Dlanor lashing out on the game.
No one believing sensfan and lynching him- and then easily pardoning kernov.
Kernov voting aage at the end.

Favorite Moments
Edoc's Fake Claim
The Victor Zodiac Photo- thanks for that one lildan.
The Coffee Scene
Kernov and Safari silently realizing who aage was, but not being able to do anything about it.
Everyone being eager to figure out who the Zodiac was.



More Thoughts
Initially I was going to allow the lovers to communicate at night. However, once Aage and Safari were paired- I decided against it, because i knew Aage was a powerful force.

To address some more of jeraado's comments:

I probably should have put a bulletproof limit on aage. I just always thought the mafia godfather as someone very hard to kill. To clarify some things- aage was not investigative immune the entire game and could have come up guilty. I almost revealed the information to karel, since i already knew both jeraado and tails died. But i didn't because i figured that wouldn't be entirely fair.

I don't like the bus driver role, but I think i could have included a town tracker and watcher. And as I mentioned earlier, both a pro-town and pro-prisoner mafia traitor.

If you all will allow me another chance, in a few weeks/months- I may mod a game with a slightly similar setup. Maybe a San Francisco part 2- with two mafia factions. But i would change the roles up a bit so no one would have an advantage, if they had followed this San Francisco game closely.

Great game Violet,

I met my win conditions for my role, little bit of confusion at the end or not. i didnt realize the mod could change the win conditions for anyone at the end. im disapointed with all the good hard work i did you feel you could take the win away from me. We all im sure made some mistakes.

I am sorry that you are disappointed kernov, and I would have liked for you to win too. I understand what you are saying. I didn't change your win conditions- and you did meet them. But I felt i had to make a judgment call. When you voted aage at the end, I thought that perhaps you didn't understand your win conditions. I just couldn't grant you the win after that move.

Town and Mafia also are not credited with a win- even though technically- they also both met their win conditions. At the end of it all, I picked the two people who both survived to the end of the game, and played their win conditions the best. Hope you will be able to understand.

[edocsil]

Son of a bitch. I knew Drab was the one who attempted to kill me not Dlanor. Pissed I never convinced either doc to protect me. I mean if nothing else I had good info for one more day?

[jeraado]

I'd be up for another vio, plus I really liked the links to real events/people. It definitely adds to the enjoyment when the mod has put extra effort into the flavour

[kernov]

Let me explain my reasonings with the Aage vote at the end, as i did spend an evening thinking about this vote. This might explain why i feel the win was stolen from me by Violet. Also as i have said this is my second ever game of mafia so of course im going to make mistakes.

At the time of my vote i actually thought maybe Safari was scum with Aage whom i suspected for ages. So if i voted Mass leaving 4 of us , Aage and Safari would lynch me the next day and steal the win for themselves. So i tried to become town and steal the win for town.

The bit i got wrong was Safari role. I played to win i was on the winning side.

[Drabod]

Cheers violet great game, i didn't think us as prisoner had a night 0 action, due to me still being new to mafia if i had known i would of used it !!!!. if only we had got rid of edoc before he claimed the prisoners would of had a chance, Thanks again though.

[Skoffin]

As an outsider looking in, while it was fun watching how people played this out I do think this game was poorly balanced.
I understand the desire to throw in all the 'cool things' into a game, whether that be roles or mechanics, but those do need to be limited enough to keep the game on track.
While having a game have a particular night/day of importance can be fun, the game should not hinge almost entirely on what happens on that particular night/day especially not so early in the game. Winning this almost entirely hinged on what role you were given.

Also, since you commented that you thought it was too late, I'll mention that a mod can (and should, if necessary) change things within the game. If you spot an issue within the game it is your duty to try and rectify it somehow, otherwise players are wasting their time on a game that cannot be won. One option would have been to tell aage that his powers had been lessened - could even claim that it was part of being connected to their lover. You can change role abilities mid-game to correct balance issues, you don't have to tell players why you are changing them. You are free to make up a flavour reason for the change.

I also get how frustrating it is to see roles not used in the way you intend. Just got to remember that players are not privy to the same information as the mod and haven't seen any of this before, thus making players take longer to figure out what they are doing, what is going on and what they should be doing.Thus I think that, unless you have very experienced players on your hand, it's best not to set up your roles to rely on winning by using some inside knowledge on how the game works.

[Fircoal]

Oh hey, I won

No you didn't, you abandoned it. Safariguy won. He did a great job after replacing- which isn't easy to do.

People who get replaced still win if their replacements win for them. So yes I winzel.

[VioIet]

Let me explain my reasonings with the Aage vote at the end, as i did spend an evening thinking about this vote. This might explain why i feel the win was stolen from me by Violet. Also as i have said this is my second ever game of mafia so of course im going to make mistakes.

At the time of my vote i actually thought maybe Safari was scum with Aage whom i suspected for ages. So if i voted Mass leaving 4 of us , Aage and Safari would lynch me the next day and steal the win for themselves. So i tried to become town and steal the win for town.

The bit i got wrong was Safari role. I played to win i was on the winning side.

Kernov, even if Safari was also scum, your goal was to keep your lovers alive. You weren't pro-town, or pro-mafia, you were pro-yourself and your lovers.

Aage and Safari would have never lynched you because they needed you to stay alive. If you had died- they would have lost their powers. That's why they were mad that you voted for aage at the end of the game.

After thinking about it a bit more, and after reading Scoffin's post, I suppose I can have a change of heart.

But i wonder if this also means I must credit both town and mafia for the win- which i don't really think I should. But technically both survived- and it wasn't Tails and Jeraado's fault that they got killed early.

I think this game was probably too complex to also have the lover- Cupid mechanism. I'm not sure how to figure out this Town/Mafia thing- they didn't lose, but didn't win either ???

Once I collect my thoughts, I will respond to Scoffin's post as well.

[Skoffin]

To answer your dilemma: Town can't win. For a town to win they must eliminate mafia, while for mafia to win they need to either eliminate town or be even with town.
There was one townie and one scum. Thus, the town had lost the game.

[kernov]

Hey i won!

[kernov]

Seriously tho Violet, i do know i messed up at the end , but im sure that was one of my few mistakes so thanks for the change of heart. I did put alot of effort into the game so thanks.

[aage]

Let me explain my reasonings with the Aage vote at the end, as i did spend an evening thinking about this vote. This might explain why i feel the win was stolen from me by Violet. Also as i have said this is my second ever game of mafia so of course im going to make mistakes.

At the time of my vote i actually thought maybe Safari was scum with Aage whom i suspected for ages. So if i voted Mass leaving 4 of us , Aage and Safari would lynch me the next day and steal the win for themselves. So i tried to become town and steal the win for town.

The bit i got wrong was Safari role. I played to win i was on the winning side.

Kernov, even if Safari was also scum, your goal was to keep your lovers alive. You weren't pro-town, or pro-mafia, you were pro-yourself and your lovers.

Aage and Safari would have never lynched you because they needed you to stay alive. If you had died- they would have lost their powers. That's why they were mad that you voted for aage at the end of the game.

I really felt like lynching him on that last day and NK'ing Judah but he already stalled the game one day... Didn't feel like taking much longer to win.

[kernov]

Your Such a Gentleman Aage.

[edocsil]

Your Such a Gentleman Aage.

Yeah, when I saw that aage was fucking unlynchable as well I just about ragequit.

@ vio If something really gamebreaking occurs you just balance it with some artificial action.

[Mass Miracle]

Thanks Vio, you sure put a lot of work into this. As a first time player I had no clue what was happening around me for most of the game and being a vanilla townie with no role kept me confused. Anyway I'm glad I played will look forward to trying again! Now that I see how things were laid out I will have a better idea for the future. Thanks again. MM

[safariguy5]

Actually, I would have tried to keep kernov alive as his vote would have helped speed the game along. Not to mention the unlynchable is really useful. I will say this is probably the first time I have seen a town-mafia lover win. Didn't think that was going to happen.

It's ok Chu, I'll dedicate this win to you.

And I'm from the Bay Area, so any mafia game related to the area will be interesting and I would definitely participate.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Aage is unlynchable.

Prisoner mafia was fucked from the start.

Why... could it be? Could this be the BEST MODDED GAME EVER?

Nope! Just kidding! It's still horrid modding!