[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[MeDeFe]

You guys are still doing it. Please stop. Don't conflate whether we should lynch Rodion or not with the question of who else is scummy enough to be lynched.

MoB, regarding your points.

@ 1) I assume you mean we need to choose sides between those three and lynch one or maybe even two of them? Well, allow me to disagree, Rodion has claimed. His death is only useful if he takes a scum with him. Chap has effectively softclaimed VT by offering to hammer Rodion immediately after he claimed, before offering to hammer was considered to be a pro-town stance. Strike has generally been constructive, there is no clear evidence, but I'm more inclined to say he's town than scum.
No, what we need to do is find consensus, not "choose sides". (Sorry chap, this is not a day we want to end quickly quite yet.)

@ 2) Exposing further powerroles would indeed not be a good thing, but neither is it a good thing to have someone who's likely a townie hammer Rodion.

@ 3) Of course his death would provide us with information, but we have to ask ourselves at what cost.

@ 4) Or the cop could simply investigate someone else.

So you are 100% sure he is what he says he is. How so sure?

I actually adressed this in my post before the one you quoted. Skimming some bits?

I've slept on it a bit, and I'm fairly convinced that Rodion is a bomb, probably even town. If he isn't, he overplayed his hand big time. It would have been easy to put him at L-1 and wait for chapcrap to hammer, the entire discussion would've died with Rodion.

So, no, I'm not 100% sure he says what he is, but if he is lying about it I think he took it way too far. Assuming that he is scum, any townie could have put him at L-1 for a variety of reasons after the votes started accumulating again. (Unless I missed something he's been at L-2 for the past few days.) Two people (one of them was you) had declared their willingness to hammer him immediately after his claim, the chances of him getting lynched quickly were fairly high.

[dazza2008]

You guys are still doing it. Please stop. Don't conflate whether we should lynch Rodion or not with the question of who else is scummy enough to be lynched.

MoB, regarding your points.

@ 1) I assume you mean we need to choose sides between those three and lynch one or maybe even two of them? Well, allow me to disagree, Rodion has claimed. His death is only useful if he takes a scum with him. Chap has effectively softclaimed VT by offering to hammer Rodion immediately after he claimed, before offering to hammer was considered to be a pro-town stance. Strike has generally been constructive, there is no clear evidence, but I'm more inclined to say he's town than scum.
No, what we need to do is find consensus, not "choose sides". (Sorry chap, this is not a day we want to end quickly quite yet.)

@ 2) Exposing further powerroles would indeed not be a good thing, but neither is it a good thing to have someone who's likely a townie hammer Rodion.

@ 3) Of course his death would provide us with information, but we have to ask ourselves at what cost.

@ 4) Or the cop could simply investigate someone else.

So you are 100% sure he is what he says he is. How so sure?

I actually adressed this in my post before the one you quoted. Skimming some bits?

I've slept on it a bit, and I'm fairly convinced that Rodion is a bomb, probably even town. If he isn't, he overplayed his hand big time. It would have been easy to put him at L-1 and wait for chapcrap to hammer, the entire discussion would've died with Rodion.

So, no, I'm not 100% sure he says what he is, but if he is lying about it I think he took it way too far. Assuming that he is scum, any townie could have put him at L-1 for a variety of reasons after the votes started accumulating again. (Unless I missed something he's been at L-2 for the past few days.) Two people (one of them was you) had declared their willingness to hammer him immediately after his claim, the chances of him getting lynched quickly were fairly high.

So because he is convincing he must be telling the truth?

We all know he is a good player. If he fakeclaims it will be convincing and he will fight to survive as long as he can.

If he is scum the longer this goes on the more info his scum-mates will get.

[Epitaph1]

I didn't realize my position was unclear. I've already voted and put forward my FOS.

Lynch Rodion and let chap do it

The FOS system seems to be leaning towards strike, who is not going to hammer. Rodion will not hammer himself and I think we need to limit any more exposure to other power roles.

I have only played with Rodion once before this, but I'm familiar with his reputation. From my understanding, I don't think a bomb fakeclaim is beyond his abilities to pull off.

This game is starting to make my eyes bleed.

[Leitz]

Wow, I had some catching up to do while I only missed 1/2 days. The whole strike/Rodion discussion has made it even harder for me to decide who I would like to vote. I think, like the rest of us, it's mostly voting using our instinct as we have no real certainty on anybody. What I do know is that Day 2 has been taking a long long time and it is getting a bit out of control as we are turning in circles for the last week or two (since jimfinns claim).

I feel the FoS is the best way to go, so we get two lynches today essentially. We can't not lynch Rodion.

I agree here, although maybe skip the FOS and go to voting immediately.

fastposted by Epitaph1

[jimfinn]

But then the votes on Rodion have to be removed, and then reapplied when the hammer comes, and also mafia or unobservant people could intentionally/accidentally lynch someone who was at L-1. And mafia lynching non-Rodion and sending us into night screws town over badly.

[MeDeFe]

So because he is convincing he must be telling the truth?

We all know he is a good player. If he fakeclaims it will be convincing and he will fight to survive as long as he can.

If he is scum the longer this goes on the more info his scum-mates will get.

On the contrary, the more convincing he is in this case, the more likely he is to get killed. That would be a double bluff of epic proportions. And as things are he still looks likely to get killed.

As for the other two, chap's (and your) quick offers to hammer him got you some townie points, as I said, I have the feeling that SW is town, too. If we're so hellbent on either killing Rodion or lynching someone else, I think we'd be better off looking among the rest of the players. Rodion did make one good point, town should lynch people who seem scummy even if the chance of accidentally lynching a townie is given. Leaving out you, chapcrap, SW, and Rodion, as well as jimfinn and Swifte for obvious reasons, and myself (since I know I'm a townie), we're left with:

Leitz
MoB Deadly
shieldgenerator7
jonty125
trinicardinal
Epitaph1
betiko

Assuming that the 4 of you really are town, there are probably 4 mafia members and maybe a third party player among those 7, the chance of getting one of them is quite high. Naturally I'd show up on everyone else's list of suspects while they'd leave themselves out, so it's effectively 4 or 5 out of 8 suspects. Still, those are odds I can live with.

I propose that we concentrate our hunt for scum on those.

[betiko]

this seems quite reasonable; although i'd personally just put jimfinn, swifte and rodion out of this list. I'll just rate what I think right now, because to tell the truth i don't have a number one suspect, this might help me as well:

Leitz: scumdar 30% nothing particular against him, he's gone for the same all along, he gets points from my "omgus" factor
MoB Deadly: 50% all this rush to get rodion lynched was suspicious, even if his explanations made sense
shieldgenerator7: 60% he is one the most quiet guys and when he shows up he isn't bringing much new things, looks like submarining to me.
jonty125: 40% wants to get over with rodion's case, hammered by whoever
trinicardinal: 30% quite helpfull re-filing cases, hasn't done anything too scummy
Epitaph1: 30% not too active, but I think he gives some good inputs when he posts
betiko: we all are going to say 0% about ourselves obviously
chapcrap: 50% I don't buy that much the 100% sure rodion is scum. he's been very agressive vs him this game and it almost looks like personal revenge from other games or a personal interest to lynch him in this particular game.
dazza: 40% i believe him more than chap on his willing to end up day 2 with the guy he mostly wants to see lynched and he doesn't believe
Medefe: 20% I don't know why, there is something about him quite townie. even when he was submarining, i suspected way more jimfinn than him.
strike wolf: 50% basically if rodion turns up town I will have big suspicions on him because all the cases that have been brought up by him would end up in town kills. It also feels like when he has a target he will deny any type of arguments and will follow only his instinct, and adapting his logic to it, not the other way around.

ok, so after this open reflexion with myself, I will go back to one of my day 1 first suspects, shieldgenerator, fossed to hammer rodion!

[chapcrap]

this seems quite reasonable; although i'd personally just put jimfinn, swifte and rodion out of this list. I'll just rate what I think right now, because to tell the truth i don't have a number one suspect, this might help me as well:

Leitz: scumdar 30% nothing particular against him, he's gone for the same all along, he gets points from my "omgus" factor
MoB Deadly: 50% all this rush to get rodion lynched was suspicious, even if his explanations made sense
shieldgenerator7: 60% he is one the most quiet guys and when he shows up he isn't bringing much new things, looks like submarining to me.
jonty125: 40% wants to get over with rodion's case, hammered by whoever
trinicardinal: 30% quite helpfull re-filing cases, hasn't done anything too scummy
Epitaph1: 30% not too active, but I think he gives some good inputs when he posts
betiko: we all are going to say 0% about ourselves obviously
chapcrap: 50% I don't buy that much the 100% sure rodion is scum. he's been very agressive vs him this game and it almost looks like personal revenge from other games or a personal interest to lynch him in this particular game.
dazza: 40% i believe him more than chap on his willing to end up day 2 with the guy he mostly wants to see lynched and he doesn't believe
Medefe: 20% I don't know why, there is something about him quite townie. even when he was submarining, i suspected way more jimfinn than him.
strike wolf: 50% basically if rodion turns up town I will have big suspicions on him because all the cases that have been brought up by him would end up in town kills. It also feels like when he has a target he will deny any type of arguments and will follow only his instinct, and adapting his logic to it, not the other way around.

ok, so after this open reflexion with myself, I will go back to one of my day 1 first suspects, shieldgenerator, fossed to hammer rodion!

Just a couple of things that I want to say about this post.

First, SG7 acts scummy every game he's in. I don't know what it is with him. He just does stuff all of the time. And then he gets lynched and he flips town. Not saying he isn't scum this time, it's just hard to tell. Kind of like with Victor Sullivan.

Second, about myself, I have not gone hard after Rodion the whole game. I didn't do anything really against him until he started bringing up joke votes from other games, which was Day 2. If you recall, I made a case against betiko on day 1 and refuted strike and his case on BG. So, me against Rodion the whole game?

Next, jonty just said he wanted me to hammer, not 'whoever'.

Moving on...someone said we can't make strike hammer. That's silly. We can make anyone hammer except Rodion. We threaten them with a claim and a lynch if they don't hammer. Would they rather be lynched or hammer? That's easy. The answer is hammer. So, if they don't want to be lynched, they will hammer.

As far as my feelings, I don't want to label how I feel about each person, because I feel like laying all the cards out on the table isn't the best idea. If we are to make someone lynch (which I don't feel like is going to happen because of inactivity/people not using the FOS system), I would favor getting a hammer from strike wolf or MeDeFe. However, as always, in the event that we cannot force a lynch, I will hammer.

[MeDeFe]

Moving on...someone said we can't make strike hammer. That's silly. We can make anyone hammer except Rodion. We threaten them with a claim and a lynch if they don't hammer. Would they rather be lynched or hammer? That's easy. The answer is hammer. So, if they don't want to be lynched, they will hammer.

Option 3, the person claims and does not have to hammer because we believe them.

It's odd that people keep forgetting that possibility, as though they just want to see someone, or rather anyone, dead.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Rodion (6)- strike, chap, jonty, Mob, betiko, epitaph
strike(1)- Rodion


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

[chapcrap]

Moving on...someone said we can't make strike hammer. That's silly. We can make anyone hammer except Rodion. We threaten them with a claim and a lynch if they don't hammer. Would they rather be lynched or hammer? That's easy. The answer is hammer. So, if they don't want to be lynched, they will hammer.

Option 3, the person claims and does not have to hammer because we believe them.

It's odd that people keep forgetting that possibility, as though they just want to see someone, or rather anyone, dead.

No, I wasn't leaving that out. I have the possibility of someone claiming and we don't hammer. In that case: I hammer Rodion.

[MoB Deadly]

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

Quoted for emphasis.

[betiko]

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

Quoted for emphasis.

I hope we won't end up with an unwanted lynch and a proper decision will be taken by then.

Chapcrap; maybe SG7 always looks scummy whatever his alignment; there are still a few things that feel not right about him. like the way he jumped on the rodion wagon with the french thing.

looks like I played cards on the table and few people are advancing this fos vote.

[MeDeFe]

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

Will the last person to have voted be considered the hammer in case we're voting for a bomb to be lynched?

I am not asking whether there is a bomb in this game or not, just what the procedure is in case there is one.

[jonty125]

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

Will the last person to have voted be considered the hammer in case we're voting for a bomb to be lynched?

I am not asking whether there is a bomb in this game or not, just what the procedure is in case there is one.

More than likely. I

m not overly bothered about who hammers Rodion but chapcrap volunteered and so did dazza so & people wanted chapcrap so I followed suit to avoid a split vote.

[trinicardinal]

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

Will the last person to have voted be considered the hammer in case we're voting for a bomb to be lynched?

I am not asking whether there is a bomb in this game or not, just what the procedure is in case there is one.

More than likely. I

m not overly bothered about who hammers Rodion but chapcrap volunteered and so did dazza so & people wanted chapcrap so I followed suit to avoid a split vote.

I'm like you. I said let chap hammer since more people were calling for him to hammer at that point.... Rodion is at L-2 right now... its possible for chap and dazza to decide who will hammer, the other brings him to L-1 and then let the hammer drop if they really wanted to.

Also folks... I'm going on vacation from the 20th till the 9th of January. While I will try to post regularly I will still have a decrease in my posting since I'll be spending much more time with my wife and daughter.

[dazza2008]

Lets just do it then. Someone vote now and I will hammer.

[safariguy5]

Activity is good, but the game is stalling. Deadline in 5 days. Day will end on Wednesday, December 21st, Midnight PST.

Person with the highest number of votes will be lynched.

Will the last person to have voted be considered the hammer in case we're voting for a bomb to be lynched?

I am not asking whether there is a bomb in this game or not, just what the procedure is in case there is one.

That is correct. Last vote is considered the hammer.

[Swifte]

I guess I'm on board with daz hammering. More interested to see that result than chap.

[strike wolf]

Swifte can you remind me why Dazza over chap? I'd look it up myself but I don't have time right now.

[betiko]

hey i see that this could ve happened last night with just 2 people agreeing; swifte voting and dazza hammering. a bit dangerous.
also we might need to give a chance to rodion for some last words before doing so??
anyone has an updated votecount?

[betiko]

ebwop: FOS count i mean

[shieldgenerator7]

whoa that was a lot of reading. Haven't been online mich and catching up is going to be a chore.

So we have a deadline on the 21st ok.

I FOS Strike because he said he woudln't hammer. I wonder why? Town power role or scum? Never mind I probably should have better grounds for FOSing him.

And whoever said town was in a desperate position right now, I disagree as we have only 2 VTs dead. That does not constitute a big emergency in my mind. Even if a townie hammers rodion and rodion is town, and we lose 2 townies tonight, we still have 12 players left, and only 30% scum (assuming 4 mafia).
However, if we pursue another case we might be able to have 1 mafia die, leaving us with 13 players left tomorrow, and 25% scum. If we pursue another lead and its town, then its 30% scum tomorrow. This is assuming 2 townies die at night.

-SG7 ( )

[Rodion]

3) The information we receive from Rodion's lynch will be priceless. Whatever he flips, I think we will all have more information to go into tomorrow with to make valuable cases.

Then give insight on your suspect list if:
a) Rodion flips town bomb
b) Rodion flips mafia


On an unrelated note, earlier today you FOSed me for telling town power roles what to do. I want you to state your current opinion on that, making it clear whether the FOS was warranted or not.

ok, i don't know how to make things advance here, let me sumarize what I understand from every point of view (took the list from page one); I might get some stuff wrong, thank you to rectify cause i am not doing this with any kind of notes:

1. Leitz: suspects rodion and betiko. voted for the first one, hammer fossed the second
2. MoB Deadly: killing rodion at the end of day 2 is the best solution taking in consideration pros and cons
3. Rodion: will not self hammer but wants strike or chap to hammer him
4. jimfinn: wants to fos-lynch someone on rodion and didn't make public who it is/ is still thinking
5. shieldgenerator7: killing rodion at the end of day 2 is the best solution taking in consideration pros and cons
6. jonty125: killing rodion at the end of day 2 is the best solution taking in consideration pros and cons
7. dazza2008: tired of day 2, has gone against rodion since the start and is ready to do the hammer
8. trinicardinal: killing rodion at the end of day 2 is the best solution taking in consideration pros and cons
9. Swifte: not too sure of his actual position
12. Epitaph1: not too sure of his actual position
13. betiko: wants to fos-lynch someone on rodion and didn't make public who it is/ is still thinking
14. MeDeFe: wants to find a new case to lynch, with or without the rodion hammer part
15. chapcrap: tired of day 2, has gone against rodion since the start and is ready to do the hammer
16. strike wolf: not too sure of his actual position

well, I m not sure I m acurate, maybe the best would be to give a 1 phrase last opinion each?

fastposted by dazza

List is poorly done. Shield, for instance, should be agreeing with Medefe if I recall correctly from his previous post (the one with the unvote).

Moving on...someone said we can't make strike hammer. That's silly. We can make anyone hammer except Rodion. We threaten them with a claim and a lynch if they don't hammer. Would they rather be lynched or hammer? That's easy. The answer is hammer. So, if they don't want to be lynched, they will hammer.

Option 3, the person claims and does not have to hammer because we believe them.

It's odd that people keep forgetting that possibility, as though they just want to see someone, or rather anyone, dead.

I know, right?!?!?!

[chapcrap]

3) The information we receive from Rodion's lynch will be priceless. Whatever he flips, I think we will all have more information to go into tomorrow with to make valuable cases.

Then give insight on your suspect list if:
a) Rodion flips town bomb
b) Rodion flips mafia

This just makes it easier for mafia to know what to do. There is no reason to list your suspicions and thoughts about every player be known.

Moving on...someone said we can't make strike hammer. That's silly. We can make anyone hammer except Rodion. We threaten them with a claim and a lynch if they don't hammer. Would they rather be lynched or hammer? That's easy. The answer is hammer. So, if they don't want to be lynched, they will hammer.

Option 3, the person claims and does not have to hammer because we believe them.

It's odd that people keep forgetting that possibility, as though they just want to see someone, or rather anyone, dead.

I know, right?!?!?!

Already responded to that.