Doodle Assassin (Various) [cleared & noted]

[Tenebrus]

Accused (certain):

mr. white123
General Bax
*EAGLE ONE*



The accused are suspected of:

Other: Assisting each other to win various assassin doodle.

This is a bit complex, so bear with me, but I play a lot of doodle assassin and if you do, I think its fairly apparent that a reasonable amount of cheating goes on. Around one in every three or four games involves someone helping with a take-out, and you get to see a lot of the same names benefiting from this. It is however very hard to prove as the games are quick, numerous and any one can always be explained away as an accident or whatever. It is really ideal an cheating opportunity. I had some free time at work so I decided to dig a bit and although I have a longer list of "suspects", the evidence for the two listed above (as the throwaway alts) and the two listed below (as the principal beneficiaries) seems fairly good, so I thought I would bring it up here. If I get time, I might do more of these for players I'm reasonably sure are acting oddly (KingRat, Hannibal 19, EXTREME1112, stevenshome etc). I suspect there are other alts too but I haven't had time to do a full look at EAGLE's games.

Below is a pretty full analysis for Bax - at least a third of his games seem suspicious. Note I have only listed games where foul play seems obvious, it is not a full list of games where he lost as target to the other suspects (frequent), or other games which seemed odd but which include people I'm not sure enough to accuse. For Mr. White, I have been much less thorough but his games are much less in number.

Evidence: General Bax

145 8 player doodle assassin games

Game number(s):

Bax attacks *EAGLE ONE*'s target, *EAGLE ONE* wins game: [game]8298941[/game]
*EAGLE ONE* attacked Bax's target, Bax wins game: [game]8298942[/game] (NB: These two games immediately consecutive)
*EAGLE ONE* attacked Bax's target, Bax wins game: [game]8309854[/game]
Bax attacks Crankyor's target, Crankyor wins game: [game]8315830[/game]
Bax attacks 40kguy's target, 40kguy wins game: [game]8323399[/game]
*EAGLE ONE* attacked Bax's target, Bax wins game: [game]8323594[/game]
Bax attacked Hannibal 19's target, Hannibal wins game: [game]8324004[/game]
*EAGLE ONE* attacked Bax's target, Bax wins game: [game]8324005[/game] (this one is particularly damning)
Bax attacked Hannibal 19's target, Hannibal wins game: [game]8324070[/game]
Blackbierd attacks Bax's target, Bax wins game: [game]8324130[/game]
Bax attacks 8ooRunR's target, 8ooRunR wins game: [game]8333089[/game]
Bax attacks Gabriel13's target, Gabriel13 wins game: [game]8333453[/game]
Bax attacks General Nix's target, Nix wins game: [game]8333656[/game] (included as only example but General Nix/General Bax helping each other seemed odd)
Bax (and EXTREME1112) attacks ChewyBlu3y's target, Chewy wins game: [game]8334062[/game]
Bax attacks Badgerbaytactica's target, Badger wins game: [game]8334293[/game]
Bax attacks egerskydiver's target, diver wins game: [game]8334615[/game]
egerskydiver attacks Bax's target, Bax wins game: [game]8334948[/game] (again, note close proximity)
Bax attacks stevenshome target, stevenshome wins game: [game]8335085[/game]
Bax atttacks *EAGLE ONE*'s target, EAGLE wins game: [game]8335700[/game]


mr. white123: 36 8 player doodle assassin games

mr. white123 attacks *EAGLE ONE*'s target, EAGLE wins game [game]8333655[/game]
mr. white123 attacks *EAGLE ONE*'s target, EAGLE wins game [game]8246651[/game]
mr. white123 attacks KingRat's target, Rat wins game [game]8292407[/game]
mr. white123 attacks *EAGLE ONE*'s target, EAGLE wins game [game]8333655[/game]



Realise this is a lot to work through, but would be interested to see what the mods think.

[*EAGLE ONE*]

you really need to get a life dude you might want to read the conversations in these games your accusing me of cheating in i have been foed by many because i play till i have no pieces lift in every game i play ..i have a 12 percent win ratio .you really got to be kidding me...know i cant play people more than once or im a cheat .ya know i humilated myself here admiting to one case where i was guilty of a mistake.now i got to defend myself because i play differently than you

[shocked439]

don't you start with two territories in your doodle assassin games? how do you move out with out taking someones target? And if you do take their target to try to get to your own aren't you helping them win?

It's like the people that cry in th battle royals about those who attack early and call them a suicider. It's the nature of the game you're playing to attack someone elses target and potentially help them win.

[Tenebrus]

Sure, shocked - that's why its such a good game to cheat in - and there's a lot of doodle games where its the right/necessary move to attack someone not your target. But its also pretty clear when you play these games a lot when that's the case and there a lot of times when it really isn't explicable other than as cheating - particularly if the people involved are not noobs at that kind of game. I've been playing a lot, and never made a formal accusation before but there's definitely something up with assdoodle. If you actually click into the examples I gave, you'll see what I'm talking about a lot more.

[JesseLacey]

This just happened now: [game]8346599[/game]

2011-01-19 19:17:28 - General Bax assaulted Russia from More Russia and conquered it from *EAGLE ONE*
2011-01-19 19:17:38 - General Bax assaulted Germany from Iceland and conquered it from *EAGLE ONE*
2011-01-19 19:17:38 - General Bax eliminated *EAGLE ONE* from the game
2011-01-19 19:17:38 - Edshuster won the game

He killed off Blue on purpose, since he attacked from 2 sides, I saw it happen. I don't know why he does it, but apparantly he does it a lot.

Yesterday he did the same to a game where he killed off my target, while it was already obvious he was mine. I thought it was just a stupid mistake, but this happening again just now and me discovering this thread makes it look very fishy.

Yesterday's game:
[game]8341724[/game]
2011-01-18 22:33:12 - JesseLacey assaulted Arabia from Irakistan and conquered it from dazza2008
2011-01-18 22:33:16 - dazza2008 deployed 3 troops on Egypt (he has 6 on Egypt now)
2011-01-18 22:36:36 - General Bax assaulted Egypt from Europe and conquered it from dazza2008
2011-01-18 22:36:36 - JesseLacey won the game

He auto-attacked his 6 on Europe on pink's 6 on Egypt, making me win the game.

Accidentally killing off the wrong target can happen to the best, but he must be doing it on purpose since I don't believe that anybody is this retarded to keep on "accidentally" killing the wrong targets. I don't have anything to do with this, I have no clue why General Bax would let me win the game. It should be stopped, since apparantly he is intentionally throwing games, according to the amount of logs.

[Tenebrus]

Yeah, a good third of his games are very fishy looking. I'm not sure what entirely is going on, but I've included *EAGLE ONE* as an accused here, mostly because he is the only one I can find also acting weird in these games to benefit General Bax - take a look at [game]8324005[/game] - there's really only one way to read that IMO.

I'm reasonably sure its more widespread than this too, but let's pick the low-hanging fruit first

[brsteelers74]

I think that there are some cheating in these games but i also think that people need to look at the players. In some cases it is just people that are not very good at these games. I play doodle alot and get frustrated with players quit a bit, but i think in most situations it is players not knowing how to play and trying to attack to quickly. Now i admit i did not go through all examples given in this case but played a few times with eagle and think it may be a case where he is just not very good at these games.

[brsteelers74]

I would also like to point out that in these assassin games about 80% of them are won by a good player waiting for a noob to hit his other target. It happens all the time.

[Tenebrus]

That's really not true. It's true if you're depending on someone hitting a 1 or whatever. But in an awful lot of games, people hit 3s or more and in an assassin game where people start with 2 terits - in most cases, that isn't foolishness. Particularly as a lot of the people involved have played a lot of assdoodle and it always seems to be the same people (albeit a relatively large circle) who benefit.

[brsteelers74]

The ones that beniffit do so mostly because they are patient and wait for this to happen instead of thinning the troops the have and attacking right away.

[brsteelers74]

Also the game that you included does look bad but we dont know in that case what eagle was doing. I have seen the best doodle players go through 2 or 3 of 1 guys territs that wasnt their target to get a win. It depends on how fast you are maybe his target was yellow in case you pointed out and was just not fast enough to get at him after taking out the singles.

[Tenebrus]

That argument might work for an isolated example, which this isn't. Again, I'm saying that's why these games are such a good cheating ground because proving something on the basis of one game is very, very difficult. Which is why I went crazy with the datamining. I have other people on my list to check out, names which I'm sure wouldn't be a surprise to anyone who plays regular assdoodle, but there's only so many (free) hours in the day =).

[brsteelers74]

But what i am saying is no matter how many cases you have and i have looked at some of them now you can not prove cheating there is too much bad play in these games and the games are too fast. I do not recognise your name and i do not know how many assassin doodle games you have played, but i have played thousands of these games and to take a few cases which from what i have seen can be explained in other ways is not proof. These guys watch players like mageplunka( who i believe is the fastest player on this site) make moves to win games in mere seconds so they feel they have to make fast moves as well but are not fast enough to do the same thing mage does and make mistakes trying it. AnywaysI just fell as bad as some of those cases look if you do not know who was their intended target this stuff is not proof of cheating can just as easily be explained as bad play.

[brsteelers74]

I believe the best solution here is if you feel someone is cheating in ass doodle games foe them it is too hard to prove cheating in such a fast paced game full of bad players.

[Tenebrus]

Well, I guess we'll see what the mods think. Just checked and I've got 660 8 player assdoodle games under my belt, so I'm pretty familiar with them too =). I'd prefer not to foe a bunch of people if they're cheating, but to see them busted.

[schmoozeinc]

tough call. i would imagine it would be tough to investigate too. ive played over 2500 of these ass doodle games. they play out quick and with most of the regular players using clickables silly shit can happen. is there an organized effort to cheat? probably. sometimes. with 100 to 200 tastee points awarded each game people will look for an edge and cheat, if they dont play with honor. im not defending anybody but if there is something fishy going on the regulars will figure it out and foe the abusers. interested to see what shakes out with this one tho.

[king achilles]

When you play 8-player Assassin Doodle earth games, things can happen very quickly that one way or the other, most of the time, someone is going to kill someone else's target. 18 regions divided to 8 players, freestyle. If you don't act or think quickly enough, the game is over. If you do act too quickly, or didn't analyze what just happened first, you could be the one eliminating a player which is not your target.

*EAGLE ONE* and General Bax plays a lot in this type of game so it will not be surprising if they get into the same games together. mr. white123 plays occasionally and he wil get tangled with players who usually play assassin in 8-player doodle games.

The games you presented does show that they have attacked the other guy's target, which could be suspicious, but it also shows that it was not only them who attacked these targets. Some other players also did. Perhaps they were trying to reach their own target? Although there is one game that is questionable, [game]8324005[/game], still, we would need more than this to support that *EAGLE ONE* is really throwing games to General Bax. [game]8324005[/game] has been noted for *EAGLE ONE*. Other than that, this is cleared.

[mr. white123]

Good, because i have nothing to do with it and don't know where u guys talk about. I'm new to this game. General Bax is just a big asshole, abussing people and try to kick them out by contacting moderators.

[*EAGLE ONE*]

this still bothers me greatly ass games is what i play mostly..and im not very good getting better at times and worse at others ..i noway cheated here and because someone says i did with no proof i get a noted for one game that looks funny..im sorry i will say it again i dont cheat..i barely can hold a winning % of 14% ..i cant help anyone else i cant even help myself 3 quarters of the time..now i have a labal because of one game that noone can say for sure i cheated or didnt .i know i didnt and some who came on here said as much but because of the witch hunting im guilty and it stinks and it puts a target on me and i cant defend myself because you put the labal there and i didnt do anything wrong

[Tenebrus]

Of that 14%, a good opportunity comes from someone else killing your target =).

Also, a bit disappointed with the ruling as it essentially means you can cheat in assdoodle and always get away with it. Hopefully, the report will make some people pick their behaviour up. Unless your in the little cheating circle you have going, its pretty obvious that something is up with 8 player assdoodle and the players who play it regularly. Hitting 1s in an ass game where your target starts with 2 terits is excusable. Regularly participating in games where the same circle of 5 or 6 regularly hit 3s for other people's targets? That's dodgy.

I just don't have the time or really the inclination to do a proper datamine to prove it to the level the admins are clearly expecting here.

Thanks for getting all the cheaters to 1 star and foe me though, now I know who else to look out for!

[SirSebstar]

just FYI, but did you read the verdict? It means there is not enough proof to support your accusation. It is noted but one game does not make an always throwing of games. Now if it were to happen much much more, then there would be no question. It is also not obvioulsy redicilious so it is noted. Unless you expect the admins to be god, they have to be kinda carefull before banning someone just because someone else asked to do so...

[Tenebrus]

I read the judgement, and have a lot of sympathy for why it was made that way. But it's because I read the judgement that I noted that cheating in 8 player assdoodle is pretty much impossible to nail on the basis of that ruling. There's only going to be one game in a couple of hundred that are as obvious as the one you warned for, because you just don't get runs of 4 or 5 terits held by the same player.

What I think is a reasonable position of proof is repeated evidence of hitting single terits with a 3 on in those games, because that is all you need to swing the game. I posted repeated evidence of that from the same circle of players (and there is a lot more, but presenting it formally is a lot of work).

So I understand why you made the call you made, I'm just saying it's a green light for cheaters in assdoodle.