benga - Game ruining/tourney abuse [ka]

[Lord_Bremen]

Accused:

benga

The accused are suspected of:

Game ruining/tourney abuse: "Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games[...]"
We are both in a 'No Spoils Random' tournament. He got upset that I attacked him (though hardly a suicide - I merely put him even with the second player), stated his intention to make me "suffer" and then proceeded to suicide into me in every other active game in the tournament. I get that suicides happen, but he's just ruined an entire months-long tournament over a single game.

The initial game was Game 17317103. He stated in chat:
"2017-05-03 02:09:38 - benga: you took out the win out of my hands, but not to worry, we have more games together, you will suffer for your insolence"

He then proceeded to suicide in round 20 (final round) of Game 17317102:
2017-05-04 08:25:15 - benga assaulted Garage from Access and conquered it from Lord_Bremen

See screenshots before (showing that I am in the lead) and after.
Before

before suicide

After:

after suicide

And also round 19 of Game 17317106
2017-05-04 07:14:49 - benga assaulted Marillo from Luce and conquered it from Lord_Bremen

We were both a close second - with a definite shot at winning - until he decided to suicide here.

He would almost certainly have also ruined Game 17317104 (I was eliminated early) and Game 17317105 (we don't share any borders).

Comments:
I understand that you can't ban foed players from tourneys, but this kind of immature/irrational behavior ruins the whole experience. It's one thing to throw one game, but an entire tournament (five games here, and tens over the whole course) and I can't even stop him from doing it in the future via the foe button. He should be banned from participating in any future auto tourneys.

[iAmCaffeine]

You said you're both in second place with a chance of winning. You stopped him from winning a game, which is better for you unless it gave the current first player a greater lead. He then stopped you winning on Madness, which would make sense for him.

[Lord_Bremen]

1) I didn't *stop* him from winning, I gave myself (and the guy in 2nd) a shot. He was still in the lead before he lost his shit and suicided on me. Perhaps you're suggesting that there's some duty to sit by and let people win if you don't want to be eliminated from tournaments? That's absurd.

2) He suicided in two separate games in which he had a non-zero shot at winning. That doesn't "make sense" for him. Everyone is at zero score right now (reset this round), so there's no difference to him whether I win or someone else does. If you want to be technical, he could have maximized his chance of surviving in the tourney by helping me win, as I have better tiebreakers and will go through above him regardless. His actions were strictly harmful to his own chances and entirely irrational.

3) He made it very clear that he was was NOT suiciding on me because it gave him any sort of advantage in the tourney. Rather, he did so entirely to "punish" me for not sitting back and letting him win a free game. That's not acceptable - it's [multiple] game ruining, and clearly against the rules (quoted above).

[eddie2]

Its a tourney, so don't c me under regular play guidelines. Also i know it is hard but thos should of been messaged to mad777 first. But would be interesting to see what the result is with benga being a tourney director. But me personally u attacked him first and he revenge attacked you in a game u were winning.

[willedtowin1]

[willedtowin1]

well then....can I say
Sour Grapes?

[benga]

You took win out of my hands in round 20
insulted me and you still hope that I will be nice to you?
bordering you cannot be trusted
so I made an attack before you could hit me like that again

[Mad777]

... That's not acceptable - it's [multiple] game ruining, and clearly against the rules (quoted above).

can you elaborate and show us what "rule"
has been violated here?

[Lord_Bremen]

The first example of banned practices that constitute 'gross abuse' is "throwing games". He clearly and explicitly threw two games by suiciding into me.

This specific practice - intentional suiciding - has incurred discipline repeatedly in the past. Here's two examples:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 9&t=215325 (warned because it occurred in a tournament)
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 9&t=221797 (noted because it was a single game)

To recap the facts:
1) We had a dispute in one game where he was angry I attacked him. He then stated his intention to make me "suffer" because of "my insolence".
2) He proceeded to suicide his entire army into me in the other two active games in the tourney (exempting one where we had no vision of each other and one where I was already eliminated).
This is remarkably similar to the first example above, quoting Donelladan there:

"Here, he was speaking about Caff ( big mouth) .
So he threw the game so that Caff don't win the tournament. This is game throwing, and he has no acceptable justification for it.
He said he did it because Caff spoke in the chat, he only did it because of the OP, this is pure game throwing."

3) His actions had no possible rational purpose - he didn't simply attack me a few times, but used all of his armies each time - in the final round of a round-limit game - so neither of us had any chance of winning. Besides the individual games, this served no purpose in the tournament as a whole: it occurred in round 2 immediately after a score reset; to the extent that my winning would have made any difference to his chances of advancing it would have been beneficial that I win rather than someone else, as I had higher tiebreakers and would have gone through above him regardless of whether I ended up with a win or not. Finally, there are of course his explicit statements disclaiming any sort of legitimate reason for the attacks.

4) As a final note, this is particularly egregious because apparently he's somehow a tourney director. If you're allowed to direct tourneys you should hardly be in the business of deliberately ruining them by throwing games/suiciding.

[benga]

Look buddy,

you took a win out of my hands, I did not make the first move here, you were not in position to win that game in any possible way


Me being a TD doesn't mean you can push me over as you please. I have dedicated a lot of time on this site organizing a lot things to make this worth while for many others.
If I am the problem for the community board they will remove and that is their right.

So lets look at some of your conduct in the aforementioned tournament games:

Game 17317103

I am blue here
2017-04-02 17:04:02 - benga: Willedtowin1 sitting
2017-04-07 23:19:14 - Lord_Bremen: Do you have a plan, red?
2017-04-20 05:22:00 - Lord_Bremen: Blue's the threat yellow, not me.
2017-04-21 07:44:04 - benga: touch me again and you will ssee who is threat
2017-04-26 03:25:50 - Lord_Bremen: yellow? the f*ck is wrong with you? Do you not understand the concept of round limits?
2017-04-30 00:28:22 - barley: wait, who attacked who first?
2017-04-30 00:29:03 - barley: round 14 broke all my bonuses
2017-04-30 06:29:50 - Lord_Bremen: You took out my stack in round SEVENTEEN when blue was up twenty troops on you.
2017-05-02 10:17:36 - benga: LOL you bastard
2017-05-03 00:04:58 - barley: chedovix is the worst and he won
2017-05-03 01:52:27 - Lord_Bremen: Good job giving yourself a loss, blue. Retard.
2017-05-03 09:09:38 - benga: you took out the win out of my hands, but not to worry, we have more games together, you will suffer for your insolence

Game 17317104
I am blue here
2017-04-10 08:56:52 - Lord_Bremen: The f*ck is wrong with you pink?


Game 17317106

I am yellow here
2017-05-04 17:29:21 - Lord_Bremen: The f*ck is wrong with you yellow? Are you fucking retarded? Instead of us hitting blue and having a chance, you suicide on me? Noobass piece of shit.
2017-05-07 12:13:07 - benga: take a good look at the mirror

Apparently you have a lot of issues with a lots of players not just here but around the board.
Your rating of 4.4 shows you are abusive to others and expect others to bow to your will.

If more of my insight is needed I will respond to the one taking over this 'case'.

cheers!

[eddie2]

Lol bring back lord v to deal with this case. He proberly wont allow anybody below the lord title deal with it. Or maybe let king a if lord v not avalibl

[willedtowin1]

Looks to me like someone is either having Roid Rage....or needs Anger Management classes =/

It looks to me also that Bremen needs to learn how to play nicer in the Sand Box............
Everyday occurrence of play happening here IMO

[iAmCaffeine]

Lol bring back lord v to deal with this case. He proberly wont allow anybody below the lord title deal with it. Or maybe let king a if lord v not avalibl

haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA haHAA

[Lord_Bremen]

Interesting that Caffeine is in here, when one of the cases listed above is one in which he reported a guy for behavior literally identical to what benga did here. I guess it's fine when he's not the one having his tourney ruined.

Benga, you're simply proving my point. Chat logs in one game are not an acceptable reason to suicide/throw other games. Period. I don't particularly care if other players like me. I do care when they abandon all attempts to win or advance their own position in order to ruin my games. You're now offering the idea that you punished me for attacking you rather than for my words (which would be still be unacceptable), but simply looking at your own statements in the game chat shows that to be clearly false.

You're also delusional if you think I had no chance of winning that game - before you lost your shit, you and yellow were about even and I was 5-10 armies down. All he needed to do was bleed you down a few armies and then get some bad dice. If I was trying to suicide, I'd hardly have left you with the top troops.

[iAmCaffeine]

My report is not identical. I reported someone for suiciding into somebody who was winning the game because he would guarantee I didn't win the tournament. That was his sole purpose and he had no chance at all of winning the tournament. He did it entirely out of spite and jealousy. There are similarities, but it's not the same.

[benga]

No I am saying that according to you:
1.you should have more than just one case of C&A, as others also attacked you and prevented you to win
2.and if you attack someone and insult him he should take it and not retaliate in any way

and btw only me and red where in position to win, he had 56 troops and I would have also have (at least) 56 troops with bonus you broke
(I had 50 troops left after you broke me), so please get your facts right

[Lord_Bremen]

You still seem unwilling to accept the fundamental difference between attacking someone and throwing a game. People attack me all the time, and that's fine, because they are trying to advance their own position. At least you freely admit that you attacked me for insulting you - which is (as per the cases noted above) clearly against the rules. Throwing a game because of something that was said in [another game's] chat is not acceptable in any circumstances.

You also don't seem to understand the basic math of round limits, so here you go: in the last round, #2 will attack #1 in an attempt to get even via dice. For #3 (this was me) to win, he needs to make sure that #2 is far enough behind that - with average dice (which comes to around 6 per army gained) - he will pull even with #1 as he also pulls even with #3. If you needed to gain 6 troops on him, then you'd have to spend about 36 armies doing so. Then, if there's a three way tie and #2 gets a 1-1 roll #3 (me) comes out on top. That's the position I put myself in - you would still have probably won with decent dice, but seemed more interested in throwing a temper tantrum.

[iAmCaffeine]

If you needed to gain 6 troops on him, then you'd have to spend about 36 armies doing so.

I'd love to see the maths on that.

[Lord_Bremen]

If you needed to gain 6 troops on him, then you'd have to spend about 36 armies doing so.

I'd love to see the maths on that.

Each attack (3v2) results in an [average] net gain of .16 armies (see e.g. http://www.dandrake.com/risk.html). So it takes around 6 attacks to gain an army. If you're down by 6, then you're going to need around 36 attacks to get even. 36 attacks results in a total loss (combined) of 72 troops - on average 33 for the attacker and 39 for the defender.

[king achilles]

And also round 19 of Game 17317106
2017-05-04 07:14:49 - benga assaulted Marillo from Luce and conquered it from Lord_Bremen

We were both a close second - with a definite shot at winning - until he decided to suicide here.

He would almost certainly have also ruined Game 17317104 (I was eliminated early) and Game 17317105 (we don't share any borders).

- this is subjective and can be argued upon.

So it falls to this;

The initial game was Game 17317103. He stated in chat:
"2017-05-03 02:09:38 - benga: you took out the win out of my hands, but not to worry, we have more games together, you will suffer for your insolence"

He then proceeded to suicide in round 20 (final round) of Game 17317102:
2017-05-04 08:25:15 - benga assaulted Garage from Access and conquered it from Lord_Bremen

As how you describe what happened, it does look he got vindictive and made that key attack that looks to support his comment from game 17317103.

Benga please be more careful of what you say as it can be used against you in this forum as what is happening right now. I shall note this report. Lord_Bremen, there is no such thing as banning someone from participating in any future auto tourneys. Feel free to rate him accordingly.

[benga]

I had 5 troops defending bonus that you broke, I was already ahead him. There was no 6 troops behind, you made it so. You took the win out of mine hands. Stop with the lies.

[eddie2]

Omg guess i should change my name to lord eddie seems the higher lords kings etc are the new kort. This should of been closed not noted.

[willedtowin1]

And also round 19 of Game 17317106
2017-05-04 07:14:49 - benga assaulted Marillo from Luce and conquered it from Lord_Bremen

We were both a close second - with a definite shot at winning - until he decided to suicide here.

He would almost certainly have also ruined Game 17317104 (I was eliminated early) and Game 17317105 (we don't share any borders).

- this is subjective and can be argued upon.

So it falls to this;

The initial game was Game 17317103. He stated in chat:
"2017-05-03 02:09:38 - benga: you took out the win out of my hands, but not to worry, we have more games together, you will suffer for your insolence"

He then proceeded to suicide in round 20 (final round) of Game 17317102:
2017-05-04 08:25:15 - benga assaulted Garage from Access and conquered it from Lord_Bremen

As how you describe what happened, it does look he got vindictive and made that key attack that looks to support his comment from game 17317103.

Benga please be more careful of what you say as it can be used against you in this forum as what is happening right now. I shall note this report. Lord_Bremen, there is no such thing as banning someone from participating in any future auto tourneys. Feel free to rate him accordingly.

So....
How do you classify being Vindictive King A?
I would tend to say things like this happen on a daily basis.
Do you really want to set a vindictive precedent here?

Now if this was a regular occurring situation I would say there is a problem.
It seems to be a 1 game situation to me and we all can get a little emotional at times.
There should not be a reason to note 1 damn thing ( except to pacify this person).

IMO the complainant needs to pull up his big boy panties and
deal with the competitive nature of this game................

[willedtowin1]

This should of been closed not noted.

[Donelladan]

Now if this was a regular occurring situation I would say there is a problem.
It seems to be a 1 game situation to me and we all can get a little emotional at times.
There should not be a reason to note 1 damn thing ( except to pacify this person).

I didn't read the whole thread but what you describe here is exactly why it was noted imo.
Noted means there is nothing to see, but it will be keep as reference if it happens again. So, as you said, since it's not a regular occurring situation it's fine, but if it become a regular occurring situation, then there is a problem, thus this is noted, in case it become regular

Noted is good